The Future of MPN?

[Dave Bryce]

Hi all - 

 

I need your help. 

 

As many of you know, I’ve been trying to keep advertising on MPN to a minimum. However, we do have to generate some $ to pay the companies who help keep MPN running. 

 

Going forward, I believe we have four options:

 

• Sign up with AdSense and others to pepper the site with ads.

• Hope that some companies recognize the value in a community of devoted gear enthusiasts, rather than internet tire-kickers, so that those companies sponsor forums and advertise.

• Make this a Patreon-supported, crowdfunded site. 

• Shut the site down. 

 

We have a Patreon page link posted in the top main menu bar, as well as via the waving Tom Hanks pic in the sidebar that shows up in the forums. It can also be accessed by clicking here. Not a lot of people have responded to that though, so the jury is out on whether crowdfunding could be viable. 

 

AdSense is easy to turn on…but it’s also easy to install ad blockers, so it would require the cooperation of forum members for this to work.  Also, we’d actually need to click on the ads for MPN to get paid.  

 

We thought about engaging a paid subscription thing…but we really don't want to do that for a couple of reasons which I think would be obvious….the main one being that we believe community support should be voluntary, not mandatory. 😎

 

If you’d like to keep the community intact - and perhaps most importantly, unambiguously independent - I think crowdfunding is the best option. But maybe you'd be cool with ads from AdSense and the like...

 

Thoughts? 🤔

 

Thanks, 

 

dB

[MathOfInsects]

Tough one. 
 

Just a thought, but what if each of the big keyboard manufacturers were offered dedicated forums here, for them to use as propagandistically as they want, in return for a little bit of sponsorship money. Then their promo ghetto could be funding the rest of the forums. You could even let them do a version of the Adsense/clickthrough on their forums so both MPN and them get a little juice off the interaction. Going further, you could arrange a small cut to MPN from any sales that occur off those sponsored forums.

[Dave Bryce]

8 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

Just a thought, but what if each of the big keyboard manufacturers were offered dedicated forums here, for them to use as propagandistically as they want, in return for a little bit of sponsorship money. Then their promo ghetto could be funding the rest of the forums. You could even let them do a version of the Adsense/clickthrough on their forums so both MPN and them get a little juice off the interaction. Going further, you could arrange a small cut to MPN from any sales that occur off those sponsored forums.

We've tried variations of that, both permanent forums and temporary pop-up ones that they could book when they have something they want to present. None of the companies with which we spoke seemed interested...with the exception of Casio and Cloud Microphones, both of whom do sponsor forums here...but both of whom have inside MPN members helping them to see the value.

 

There are actually manufacturers that not only do not want a forum, they prohibit their employees from participating on forums or in any way posting things that could be perceived as the company's Official Position.   There are also manufacturers that have their own forums, and are happy with the fact that they have complete control over them.  I can understand that...

 

dB

[16251]

I never minded ads when they were banners. Then it felt like they were weeds and multiplied and started devouring the content. Piano World has non-intrusive ads, which never bothers me IMHO.

[Dave Bryce]

1 minute ago, 16251 said:

I never minded ads when they were banners. Then it felt like they were weeds and multiplied and started devouring the content. Piano World has non-intrusive ads, which never bothers me IMHO.

Helpful perpective, to be sure - thanks!  May I ask how often you click on those banners?

 

dB

 

 

[16251]

2 minutes ago, Dave Bryce said:

Helpful perpective, to be sure - thanks!  May I ask how often you click on those banners?

 

dB

 

 

Not lately, but they never reached out to explain the importance. Now that you explained how important it would be to click on them here (wink-wink,) I would certainly do my part.

[Jose EB5AGV]

I can add my AdSense experience of about 15-20 years (don't recall exactly). I run my own website of technical things (mostly my ramblings on repairs) for 28 years. When I first added AdSense, it was a great way to pay for the hosting and then some money for my new gear to be fixed. But, as time went by, the income decreased gradually to the current level , on which barely covers hosting cost. I have tried to keep a not too disturbing ad number per page, but it should be somewhat intrusive for someone to click.

[MathOfInsects]

Yeah, I'd certainly be happy to have "banner-click-day" each month or week where we all click on all the ads and hang out on the landing pages for a few minutes. Like Bandcamp Friday but without the flute. Er, profits. 

 

[zephonic]

I like Patreon. I think I donated before, but I just subscribed. How many of us would need to do so in order to keep the lights on?

 

 

[Stokely]

Dumb question, from someone who has never clicked an ad, ever...would that actually work?

I mean, at some point someone has to actually see increased revenue, right?  Just clicking to click gets a view for the ad company but no revenue.

Then again I always wondered how email marketing could ever earn 1c from anyone, and it obviously did...

[Tom Williams]

I actually prefer option 5 -- subscriber based, or subscriber premium.  I pay $6AU per year on a Kurzweil forum, and I'd gladly pay a bit more to help this go.  

 

Most day-to-day postings on Mastering VAST are freely readable; there are some tutorials and auxiliary documentation that are subscriber-only.  ANd I must emphasize, it's a very low bar financially. 

 

I assume this differs from Patreon, where some pay and many benefit.

 

(Edited, as I eventually noticed option 5 was covered)

[Tom Williams]

My objection to clickable ads is that the quality of the ads eventually deteriorates into annoying / deceptive / downright harmful clickbait, and/or animated shit (look, a squirrel!) that pulls my perception away from the content I want to read. 

[drawback]

I subscribe to a couple of newspapers online and would definitely pay a monthly subscription to MPN. I'd sooner do that than the Patreon model. I find ads too intrusive and messy not to block, and I think the majority would agree once they start seeing the numbers necessary to make up the revenue. What are banner ads today will be annoying popups and animations before too long.

 

Subscription for me. BTW, it's a deductible expense.

[Tom Williams]

1 minute ago, drawback said:

I subscribe to a couple of newspapers online and would definitely pay a monthly subscription to MPN. I'd sooner do that than the Patreon model. I find ads too intrusive and messy not to block, and I think the majority would agree once they start seeing the numbers necessary to make up the revenue. What are banner ads today will be annoying popups and animations before too long.

 

Subscription for me.

Wow -- great minds do think alike don't they?  Also yours and mine....

[Dave Bryce]

For those of you suggesting subscriptions, we can certainly engage those pretty easily.  What amount do you think is reasonable?

 

One of the advantages of Patreon is that everyone can decide how much they want to contribute.  Subscription amount would need to be fixed.

 

dB

[MAJUSCULE]

I've been a happy MPN Patron since the launch of the Patreon. I would not have signed up for this forum if there was any cost barrier. There can't be an entry fee or we'll lose almost all new member sign ups.

[Michael Wright]

I am happy with  Patreon.   It has been available for a while, but I guess being voluntary is unpredictable revenue wise.  I have no problem with a subscription model to ensure the continued existence of the forum.  

[Delaware Dave]

27 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

Yeah, I'd certainly be happy to have "banner-click-day" each month or week where we all click on all the ads and hang out on the landing pages for a few minutes. Like Bandcamp Friday but without the flute. Er, profits. 

 

this ....

[Anderton]

9 minutes ago, MAJUSCULE said:

I've been a happy MPN Patron since the launch of the Patreon. I would not have signed up for this forum if there was any cost barrier. There can't be an entry fee or we'll lose almost all new member sign ups.

 

Maybe subscribers could access particular perqs that those who just come to the forums couldn't access. For example, suppose we had a set of extremely cool videos from Synthplex, with discussions on same and people like Michael Boddicker stopping by. Those forums could be password-protected and only subscribers would have the password. There could be other perqs, like discounts for the MPN store, which we would beef up to make it as worthwhile as possible.

 

My favorite words from Dave Bryce's initial post is "unambiguously independent."
 

[drawback]

42 minutes ago, MAJUSCULE said:

I've been a happy MPN Patron since the launch of the Patreon. I would not have signed up for this forum if there was any cost barrier. There can't be an entry fee or we'll lose almost all new member sign ups.

 I see this point, but operating on "whatever" and voluntarily isn't sustainable. It's like a tip jar.

 

[Docbop]

Do something like YouTube subscribe to not see ads and ads for everyone else.    I don't mind ads as long as they not are constantly in the way or percentage of page is more ads than content.   

[zephonic]

Subscription-only will certainly deter potential future forumites from signing up. Subscriber-only content on a free-for-all space is usually not worth it. But maybe MPN will prove me wrong.

[o0Ampy0o]

Is it possible to offer more than one of these options? This way you match preferences to more people instead of making only the most popular option The Way. 

[Floyd Tatum]

54 minutes ago, Dave Bryce said:

One of the advantages of Patreon is that everyone can decide how much they want to contribute.  Subscription amount would need to be fixed.

Can you give us a sense of what number of patreon donations (and at what $ amount) you would need?   Ballpark.  If you can.

 

[D. Gauss]

subscriptions are not for me.  ads are fine.  

[MathOfInsects]

Another thought: when you say "to pay the companies that keep MPN going"...who is that? Is it possible to find pro bono or at least cheaper versions of whatever we are getting from those companies?

[DJkeys]

My Pool forum (forums.azbilliards.com) allows voluntary contributions for $35 a year.  You receive added benefits and a banner next to your profile showing that you support the site.  I don't know how much yearly revenue you need, but even if you got 10% of the users to contribute, that might be substantial enough to not employ ads-

 

-dj

[miden]

1 hour ago, Dave Bryce said:

For those of you suggesting subscriptions, we can certainly engage those pretty easily.  What amount do you think is reasonable?

 

One of the advantages of Patreon is that everyone can decide how much they want to contribute.  Subscription amount would need to be fixed.

 

dB

 

Perhaps, ascertain the number of active members (active meaning at least one post a month) and divide that into the monthly cost of maintaining the site. That could be the base subs model. And still maintain the patreon for casual "lurkers".

 

Most folks area already subscribing - even if only to movie/tv streaming services (or cable as you have ti over there), so I'm not sure why folks would find it obnoxious!

[o0Ampy0o]

A variation is to have a doorway. To get in you open the door. Opening the door sends clicks to an array of advertisers. Is that possible to set up? It bypasses the intrusiveness of ad while it provides the clicks. One obstacle may be that advertisers insist that their product get exposed. Addressing that, the door could have eye candy stickers or photos of products or just logos depending on the company's request. But design it so it is a recognizable door and not a page plastered with ads.

[Dave Bryce]

To everyone who is asking how much we need "to keep the lights on":  that's not so easy to figure out.  Basic operating costs aren't the core of the issue - it's more about having our hands tied any time we want to try and add value like paying folks to cover trade shows, do videos, do reviews, curate press announcements, do PR to try and drive new traffic to the site, do the maintenance that the forums/site need on a fairly regular basis, run the MPN Store and more.  Most of that is being done for next to no compensation currently.  Not ideal.  

 

Also, please be assured that we've been trying to figure out how to make MPN work from a financial standpoint for a few years now, including how to do that as inexpensively as possible (of course). 

 

The bottom line here is that we're more trying to get a gauge of whether the community members are inclined to help support the forum's existence; and, if so, what would be the best way to do that.

 

dB