Anyone Using a 73 Key Board for Cocktail/Bar Keys/Vocalist Gigs?

[b3plyr]

I know this has been addressed, in part, in the past. But I'm looking specifically for success/failure in the cocktail/bar/winery event with just a keyboardist and a vocalist.Right now I cannot convince myself that I can get by with less than 88 keys. Oh, as you might have guessed, I'm focused on piano but do sometimes split for bass, etc.

[Dave Keys]

35 minutes ago, b3plyr said:

I know this has been addressed, in part, in the past. But I'm looking specifically for success/failure in the cocktail/bar/winery event with just a keyboardist and a vocalist.Right now I cannot convince myself that I can get by with less than 88 keys. Oh, as you might have guessed, I'm focused on piano but do sometimes split for bass, etc.

I’m going through the same thought process. To find the answer, cover the bottom and top notes on your 88 with paper, and play for 30 mins. See how often you hit the paper. If it’s often, you need an 88; if it’s rarely or not at all, you can get by with a 73.

[16251]

I would miss seeing the full 88 and a feeling of being comfortable, which might promote zoning out. (Totally, non-scientific and my opinion.)

[niacin]

I used a 76-note ensoniq KS32 through the 90s for hundreds of solo/duo with singer gigs. I’d have liked a better key action but the range wasn’t an issue. ymmv

[Dave Keys]

Let’s face it, 88 keys didn’t arise until the late 1880s anyway. Chopin, Beethoven, Mozart, Bach etc all coped admirably on Keyboard instruments with a narrower range. If they can do without, so can we 🤣 That said, despite ordering a YC73, I’m still tempted by the CP88.🤣🤣

[timwat]

Yes, I've done it. No, it's not the same as an 88. No, it has never prevented me from having a successful duo gig.

[stoken6]

I'm fine on 73 keys for this kind of gig. Not 61 though.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[ProfD]

My preference for any gig is an 88-note KB as my primary instrument.  

 

The only way I'd settle for less than an 88-note KB is:

 

1) rehearsal

2) multi-KB rig situation

3) auxiliary KB player in a band

4) small stage/venue

 

Otherwise, there's a reason [insert your favorite piano player here] always has an 88-note KB onstage even if it is in a shell. 

 

Stage presence matters.😎

[ElmerJFudd]

If playing with a bass player for the night I would do this in a heart beat.  

For playing solo piano, accompanying piano...  Nah.  There are lighter weight 88s that are easier to carry than the 50 pounders with the best actions. You just have to find a compromise.  
 

Of course it’s also easily possible to comp chords on a 61k synth action for a singer.  And players do this all the time for size and weight reasons.  Whatever works for you.

[timwat]

Stating the obvious, there's a ton of things you can't do on a 76/73. But you can certainly satisfactorily support a singer for the evening. 

 

Whether or not you WANT to do that kind of gig with less than 88, well that's where each of us gets to answer that individually. I remember the early days as a young man backing up singers on actual house pianos, which was Forrest Gump - life is like a box of chocolates you never know what you're gonna get. 

[miden]

58 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

I'm fine on 73 keys for this kind of gig. Not 61 though.

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

hahaha, I HAVE had to do it with a 61 on occasion - it's doable needs a bit of thinking but possible.

 

re the OP, 73 or 76 is totally fine, especially with a vocalist, which is what the audience would focus on anyway tbh.

[ProfD]

13 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

There are lighter weight 88s that are easier to carry than the 50 pounders with the best actions.

True.  While I'm not a fan of the shallow width of DPs like the Roland RD-88, it looks portable enough.😎

[RandyFF]

Perhaps a bit OT but relevant- the quality of sounds and keybed on some of the cheaper boards is now approaching what used to be mid-range quality.  

 

I recently picked up a Yamaha PSR EW425 and have been incredibly impressed what they’ve managed to include for under $500.  Makes having a 76 note board affordable as an option for rehearsals or low-key gigs:

 

- a 76 note key bed that doesn’t suck!  Feels like a lightweight semi-weighted, an overall light touch but capable of good dynamics

- decent pianos if you like Yamahas crisp version of a piano

- a few good EPs, but of course that depends on your taste, same goes for organs (though I’m not a good judge of that)

- 24 watts of onboard speakerage: can get plenty loud, sounds good

- microphone input with top panel button: on/off/on but no effects applied

- 18 pounds, can be battery powered with 6 D cell rechargeables

- built in USB audio interface

- 2 mod knobs that are pre-assigned- so 7 choices for both knobs (cutoff/resonance, reverb/chorus, DSP Parameter1 and 2, etc)

- transpose/octave buttons on top panel

 

 

[miden]

5 minutes ago, timwat said:

...... I remember the early days as a young man backing up singers on actual house pianos, which was Forrest Gump - life is like a box of chocolates you never know what you're gonna get. 

 

hahaha~ brother ain't THAT the truth

[obxa]

Yes!!   Numa CompactX 73   I think 73 is the ideal compromise.  I'm sure many here did tons of Rhodes and Wurly gigs at some point in their life, and we survived.

 

After using some form of 88 note slab for the last 15 years or so, I absolutely love it.   Posted before the joys of not struggling with loading an 88 note case anymore.  I now enjoy guest elevators and using the front door on most load-ins.   Plus my full show rig set up is so much easier  and lighter to deal with. 

 

 

I switched over in December.   Solo cocktail, ceremony  Trio/Quartet  (one or two horns, drums, me) where I play LH bass.   Set bass split down an octave so it fits.    Also duo with Female torch singer.   First couple gigs, I'd sometimes run out of keys - mainly due to muscle memory.   After a few tunes got more comfortable.   For everything else I do (pit band, show/artist)  I can think of  maybe 1 song where I really needed the lower keys.  Octave button to the rescue.   

 

I think the mind-set is similar to driving an unfamiliar rental car, or recently for me: Yank driving in the UK!!  Takes a little bit to get your head around it, but you can adapt. 

 

 

[Adam Burgess]

10 hours ago, timwat said:

Yes, I've done it. No, it's not the same as an 88. No, it has never prevented me from having a successful duo gig.

Same. Did hundreds of gigs with a Kronos 73. Bass splits and full piano stuff.

[Adan]

I don't think anyone needs the highest and lowest notes, it's all about your comfort level, which in turn is all about what you're used to.  As with most things, you will find you're more adaptable than you think you are.

 

I've been gigging with 73 piano keyboards for ages.  If it's a winery, you'll probably have plenty of room.  Like, literally acres.  Bars and restaurants often means squeezing into corners.  Then there's fitting into cars, carrying it up stairs in my house, etc . . . gigging life is significantly easier with 73.

 

My own bugaboo is playing organ on 73 keys.  I can do it, of course, but I can't feel "in the zone" if the top key isn't a C.  Maybe it's because so much of organ playing involves the smear/glissando and my vision calibrates to the highest key.  This is the sort of thing an "industrial psychologist" would study.   Regardless, but it's a problem I've never been able to conquer.  I don't have a similar problem on piano because my peripheral vision doesn't even extend to those higher and lower keys.  At least, that's how it feels to me.

[Dave Keys]

One positive of having 88 keys is that it keeps the Drummer and guitarist just that little bit further away 😂

[Lou Gehrig Charles]

I recently moved up from a 61 to an 88.  Actually, a 73 probably would have been about perfect for me; I really only needed a handful on keys lower than what I could do on my 61.

[yannis D]

If the singer is good you can even do it with a 61 board: people tend to pay attention mostly to the voice. With closed chords and a little use of the octave button, I have done it many times and it was ok. In my solos i was focusing on 2 octaves which is a good lesson to be more melodic and play less. No real piano feel but my back thanked me later😉

[Adan]

If someone made a 61 note weighted, I'd be very interested.  No one ever will.  I don't have much problem adjusting to piano on 61 keys.  Even playing a stride style, the left hand can ghost play the lower note when necessary.

 

Again, trying to tease apart the psychological aspect, I suspect that spending a lot of time on organ yields a certain comfort level with the 5 octave span.

[Reezekeys]

Octave button jockey here, been doing mostly piano-centric gigs on a 61 most of my life. Gig life and the schlep tactics will do that to you. Back in the day I did my time moving my CP70, Rhodes, Wurly, OBXa, and KX88. Those days are long gone. I'm curious enough to want to try a very lightweight 88 (Numa C2?) at some point though, might be fun.

 

It could be a matter of music styles and the kinds of gigs - playing with bands that have bass players, playing a lot of jazz where you're not pounding octaves, just trying to come up with pretty voicings in the midrange of the keyboard. As to the OP, yes I've done tons of cocktail hour & solo "piano" gigs on my 61, and can truthfully say I'm not missing the extra keys, ever. I do use the octave keys once in a while though!

[stoken6]

2 hours ago, Adan said:

If someone made a 61 note weighted, I'd be very interested

Roland RD64 was 64-key, but disappointing action, and just as wide as a 73.

 

Cheers, Mike

 

 

[Mike Davis]

4 hours ago, Adan said:

 

My own bugaboo is playing organ on 73 keys.  I can do it, of course, but I can't feel "in the zone" if the top key isn't a C.  Maybe it's because so much of organ playing involves the smear/glissando and my vision calibrates to the highest key.  This is the sort of thing an "industrial psychologist" would study.   Regardless, but it's a problem I've never been able to conquer.  I don't have a similar problem on piano because my peripheral vision doesn't even extend to those higher and lower keys.  At least, that's how it feels to me.

I thought I was the only one! I bought a 73 key version of the Hammond SK-1 and it drove me crazy.

[Threadslayer]

20 hours ago, Dave Keys said:

To find the answer, cover the bottom and top notes on your 88 with paper, and play for 30 mins. See how often you hit the paper. If it’s often, you need an 88; if it’s rarely or not at all, you can get by with a 73.

That's a great, practical real world test. It would also be a good warm up exercise for a piano player preparing for a shorter keyboard gig. I'll have to try that.

[AWkeys]

On a related note, I played a charity event last week and the backline keyboard was an Electro 2 73. Had to accompany a vocalist on "Bridge Over Troubled Water". THAT was fun, haha!  If I had a lot of work backing songbirds singing torch songs, I'd probably opt for an 88. For my solo gigs and duos, it's my NS2 EX Compact with the low E. I prefer ease of load in and all the other sounds it offers - even in a solo/duo gig, I play a lot of different sounds - than carrying an 88.

[stoken6]

@AWkeyshow would you have felt if it was a 73-key weighted Nord Piano 5? (Or Korg SV2-73, or Yamaha CP73 etc.)? From my perspective, the sprung action on that Electro is more of a hindrance than the reduced compass.

 

Cheers, Mike

[pinkfloydcramer]

I enjoy using my Yamaha CP73 on those type gigs, would enjoy it more if it was 76 key C to C. The main reason I use it is because of the reality (in my world) of extremely cramped stages, with patrons jam-packed into a small place. The people I play with regularly tend to put more bodies on stage than what it is designed for.

 

The only time I miss the extra keys is when playing boogie woogie, which I don't do that often. For LH pinky-to-thumb (broken octaves) I like to go considerably lower down, while still having the high keys available- doesn't matter to me if my trashed ears only hear the "thunk" (no pitch) on keys above E6, I know exactly what I'm playing.

 

A local legend (now deceased) never carted in anything more than a 61 key, semi-weighted board (like the Motif Classic) and you couldn't tell the difference in his playing. That worked for him, at least- I was never more miserable than when I played an Electro on those type gigs. I was ecstatic when I went from it to a Roland RD64 that had a much superior keybed and finger-to-sound connection. I was surprised how much difference the additional 3 keys (with low A) made, too.

[AWkeys]

6 hours ago, stoken6 said:

@AWkeyshow would you have felt if it was a 73-key weighted Nord Piano 5? (Or Korg SV2-73, or Yamaha CP73 etc.)? From my perspective, the sprung action on that Electro is more of a hindrance than the reduced compass.

 

Cheers, Mike

 

Weighted action is definitely preferred in these cases, but of course you gain more on the schleppage factor.

[BluMunk]

I have done many a solo bar/cocktail piano gig on my QS7.1, though not in many years, and I don’t think I’d go back to a smaller board by choice. There are enough 88 key boards that are light and easy enough to carry that I don’t need to save the space.

 

That said, I’ve always been bothered by the fact that it’s always seems to be the bass notes that get truncated on 7x key instruments. If I was designing my perfect smaller format board, I’d cut the bottom three notes (start on C), and cut the top fifth (end on E). I guess that leaves 77 keys. Don’t know if it would be worth it to shave slightly less than one octave.