Nord Stage 4 Announced

[Iconoclast]

If I'm not mistaken, a brand new Nord Stage 3 88 was $5299 until they blew out the price to make room for the NS4.  So the price increase wasn't quite as much as I thought it was.  The NS4 73 is only $100 more than that.

[ElmerJFudd]

35 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

No separate interface required. USB cable from PX5S to Mac. (Headphone out of Mac requires a cable, but line out of a Kurz requires a cable too, just a different one.)

 

Macbook Air, $999.

Mainstage, $30.

Casio PX-5S, $1099

TOTAL: $2,128

 

Actually, let's make that a Roland RD88 instead, it's another $200, but it has specific Mainstage integration and an expression pedal input.

 

Or for less money...

... Studiologic SL88 Grand: Fatar TP40Wood action (a variation of what's in the K2700) with aftertouch, $999 (but maybe add $200 for their Mixface control surface)

... Studiologic SL73 or SL88 Studio: for something much lighter in weight, $500-$530 (ditto)

... or for a non-hammer action, Numa Compact 2X, 88 semi-weighted keys with aftertouch, 9 programmable sliders, $750

 

But of course, that's not as convenient as a plug-and-play Kurzweil, with all its controls, etc. But that's the point. If all you care about is the result, then neither Nord nor Kurz are the cheapest way to get there. If workflow matters (including convenience of setup and pre-assigned/logically arranged controls, etc.), then Kurz and Nord both offer advantages... but people will differ about what kind of workflow they want, and what they're willing to pay for it. That is, the same reasons you'd suggest someone should pay more for a K2700 than a controller/Mainstage combo (e.g. workflow, convenience, control surface) are the reasons someone else might find it worth paying more for the Nord over the Kurz, that's my point. All good solutions, for different players. (And they’re different wallets!)

Indeed, If you’re done with expensive top tier boards just to have access to better sound sets a MainStage rig need not break the bank.  I’ve a 2013 MacBook Pro Dual Core i5, 8gb, 512gb ssd.  Runs Big Sur and MainStage.  These can be had for $250-400.  
 

2020 M1 MacBook Airs with 16gb and 512ssd have already dropped in value to $1100 and we’ve seen how well the Apple silicon runs multiple instances of AUs. The 2020 Mac mini M1s are being put up for sale at $750 now that an M2 is out. 
 

It is a viable option if you don’t mind a computer as your “rack synth”.  The best part about it is getting to pick the keyboard you play for its action and not having to settle for what the manufacture offers. 

[Philip Clark]

I'm sorry. For $5700, that thing better do my laundry.

[ElmerJFudd]

It’s interesting - Korg saw diminishing sales in Kronos and opted to get the price down on their Nautilus.  Yamaha has sat tight on Montage through instability but pushed out an MODX+.  Roland on the other hand went for Fantom ($4200) and Fantom-0 one right after the other.  
 

Has Nord set the price tag at $5700 based on the calculation that they’ll build and sell less of these than any model they’ve released before? 

[nursers]

11 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

 Has Nord set the price tag at $5700 based on the calculation that they’ll build and sell less of these than any model they’ve released before? 

That's a good point - I think it's unlikely but MAYBE they have a good grasp on potential customers who upgrade / potential new buys and are happy to lost 5% of them for the higher price. Won't be the first time an accountant has driven a decision like this  

[jazzpiano88]

With the price comparisons, remember the B3 was the same price of a new Buick Skylark. 

 

The Nord is a months security deposit for apartment rental.  
 

A new Ford pickup with all of the extras is the price of a brand new concert Steinway.  
 

Musical instruments are cheap!
 

 

[Docbop]

20 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

It’s interesting - Korg saw diminishing sales in Kronos and opted to get the price down on their Nautilus.  Yamaha has sat tight on Montage through instability but pushed out an MODX+.  Roland on the other hand went for Fantom ($4200) and Fantom-0 one right after the other.  
 

Has Nord set the price tag at $5700 based on the calculation that they’ll build and sell less of these than any model they’ve released before? 

That's MSRP so the street price will be interesting to see what the street price is, they could be jacking up MSRP for show and let street price be just a minor bump. 

 

All I can say is any GAS I had for the new Stage is gone.   I've got my Stage 3 for now and see how I feel after NAMM, I might sell it and try something else.  

[jeffincltnc]

They are a small boutique manufacturer that make a small number of keyboards by hand in Stockholm.    I think they have thought out a lot of things very well for the player.  They’re not a technology or platform company.

 

Stage 4 will be very successful in many markets from worship to education to live event production.

 

For a small company of 40 people they will probably sell more Stage 4s than the new Rhodes, Vintage Vibe, Crumar, Viscount and many others.

 

They will easily outsell flagship Moog and their reissues, Dexibell or the Kurzweil K2700.

 

They don’t have anywhere near the scale or aspiration to sell the volume of much of the Roland, Yamaha, Korg sub-$2K or even sub-$3K product portfolio.  Seems they have always gone a different direction from the pack.

[ElmerJFudd]

8 minutes ago, JazzPiano88 said:

With the price comparisons, remember the B3 was the same price of a new Buick Skylark. 

 

The Nord is a months security deposit for apartment rental.  
 

A new Ford pickup with all of the extras is the price of a brand new concert Steinway.  
 

Musical instruments are cheap!
 

 

The B3 isn’t a digital instrument, a new model is still $25k, as is a 5’11” Boston or Kawai baby grand.  Digital instruments should be vastly more affordable, and they are.  $5700 is a new peak for the category it’s in.  I think we are all quite aware most people don’t have $1k in the bank for emergencies.  🤷‍♂️ Cheap is definitely a relative term.  

[ElmerJFudd]

17 minutes ago, Docbop said:

That's MSRP so the street price will be interesting to see what the street price is, they could be jacking up MSRP for show and let street price be just a minor bump. 

 

All I can say is any GAS I had for the new Stage is gone.   I've got my Stage 3 for now and see how I feel after NAMM, I might sell it and try something else.  

Is Kraft taking preorders on MSRP?

https://www.kraftmusic.com/nord-stage-4-88-stage-keyboard.html

[jeffincltnc]

7 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

The B3 isn’t a digital instrument, a new model is still $25k.

Incorrect.  The new B3 for $25K is totally a digital instrument.  Hammond stopped making tonewheels in the 70s and Suzuki made Hammonds are basically not much different from software emulations with a lot of mahogany wood, a copy of the layout with digital switches and drawbars and a premium keybed.  Totally digital.

[jeffincltnc]

15 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

$5700 is a new peak for the category it’s in.

What category?  Kurzweil Forte was at $5,000 in its final production and they are made in Asia for a lot less labor cost.

[AnotherScott]

Yamaha Genos is $6000.

Korg Pa5X is $5300 for the 88, $4900 for the 76

Minimoog and Oberheim OB-X8 are $5000.

The Moog one is $7000 for the 8 voice, $9000 for the 16.

 

I assume there are people who buy those things, because there is nothing else quite like them for less... and the same is true of the Nord. It will have a market, even if we don't yet know the size.

[Nathanael_I]

59 minutes ago, Dr Nursers said:

That's a good point - I think it's unlikely but MAYBE they have a good grasp on potential customers who upgrade / potential new buys and are happy to lost 5% of them for the higher price. Won't be the first time an accountant has driven a decision like this  

Doubtful.  Any good CPA is looking at the lifespan value of the product and they know their retention rate accurately.  Their gamble is likely very small.  Nord aren't risk-takers - the proof is their products.  If this is on the market for 5 years, they don't have to get all the customers in the first 30 days, or even most of them.  Plenty of people that don't need to upgrade their Stage3 today will be looking at it differently 3 years from now.  Churches, backline companies, and other commercial users replace these on depreciation schedules, not product release schedules.  Nord will still get "switchers" and "first time trying one" players.  They will buy a Stage4 if they want a new instrument with a warranty.  It is highly likely that the Stage 4 will be the only thing that does exactly what it does during the next several years.   This is safe to say because it's been true for years. 

 

Given inflation, the cost bump is not out of line.  They won't likely adjust it soon, and if they need, dealers can drop street price, but retain the MSRP in case they have need to go higher without "changing prices". 

 

Nord are shrewd business people that know their market niche super well. So well they can build exactly to it, and ignore all the people like me who just can't accept the compromises that their core market happily makes.  That said, I'm a happy Nord Grand customer - it would have been cheaper to keep the Yamaha P-515, but I just liked the key/finger connection better on the Nord Grand.  It was inconviently more expensive, but I could pay it and did. 

 

The crazy overpriced gig bag for the Nord Grand is currently on sale for $600 ($400 off) through the end of the month, so I'll be jumping on that.  Again, not thrilled with the price, but I can't get custom stuff made for that price.  And I do love the triple sensor action in that Kawai action, even though I do prefer software pianos to the Nord Piano library ones. 

[jyrkik]

In my opinion, it`s kind of silly to complain about the prices of his kind of merchandise. The seller can always define his price and customer can only decide to buy or pass. Perhaps if it would be a question of necessity item like bread or beer, but it`s not. If one cannot digest the price, go with some other brand. This is no charity business.

 

Personally I think that I`ll also stick with my Stage 3 for the foreseen future. But if the 4 had clear improvements in organ and epiano tone area I`d be ready to pay the asking price. 

 

Unfortunately any other available option doesn`t do it either because I`m already so used to the single (carry) package of usably good pianos, epianos, organ and knobby synth. Every other option would mean at least two boards and/or flirting with SW instruments. Kurzweil would perhaps be close, but the organ... and how`s the K`s knobby synth?

 

Recently I purchased an YC73 as a potential contender. The organ was good as were the pianos. But it would have needed some kind of supporting synth device. Unfortunately the external controller features appeared to be very unwieldy. Hence, back to the shop went the YC.

 

Jyrki

[analogika]

To chime in on the subject of price: 

 

They don’t need (or want) to saturate the market for Stage 4 immediately. They just need to sell as many as they can make — which is NOT a lot, per month, for a company of 40 people, many of whom are in admin and development, and which also assembles a number of other products at the same time. 
 

This machine will keep their order books filled for years to come, and it is priced to balance the risen component costs, inflation, and waiting times to a point where it keeps those forty people busy and employed. 

[niacin]

6 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

The B3 isn’t a digital instrument, a new model is still $25k, as is a 5’11” Boston or Kawai baby grand.  Digital instruments should be vastly more affordable, and they are.  $5700 is a new peak for the category it’s in.  I think we are all quite aware most people don’t have $1k in the bank for emergencies.  🤷‍♂️ Cheap is definitely a relative term.  

it’s digital: https://www.b3guys.com/product/Hammond-B-3-MK2-Organ-C-3-MK2-Organ

 

[Spider76]

15 hours ago, Iconoclast said:

Regardless what you think of the board, there's some MONSTER performances on the release website. Do yourself a favor and go watch a couple or all of those:

https://www.nordstage4.com/

I agree. Contrary to many product release launches which focus on showcasing technical aspects, these performances are really tasteful and musical.

I was especially blown away by Dominique Xavier, amazing!!!

[Ibarch]

Is there a reason why no-one is mentioning the Roland Rd-2000 as a competitor to the Nord Stage? I would have expected this to be its biggest rival. 

[niacin]

10 hours ago, Iconoclast said:

 

I like Jack's reviews, I like that when he dials up a wurli patch he'll play some Donny Hathaway, but he is such a Nord fanboy.

[analogika]

1 hour ago, Ibarch said:

Is there a reason why no-one is mentioning the Roland Rd-2000 as a competitor to the Nord Stage? I would have expected this to be its biggest rival. 

i think the reason is that they’re completely different products. 
 

you can compare them, of course, but that Roland, from what I gather, is primarily a stage piano that also does some organ and sample playback synth, with a couple of effects, and the option to assign some live controllers.
 

That’s a very different machine from the Fantom, which is probably the closest actual competitor to the Stage. 

[dickiefunk]

I think Nord have made a few nice small improvements with the Stage 4 but seriously £4399 for the 88!?? Don't get me wrong, some of the acoustic pianos sound very nice and having a fully fledged synth section and organ section are handy but I paid £1699 for my Yamaha CP88 and with the class compliant USB interface I can add any iOS synth and IK's B3x (or the upcoming Acousticsamples B5 v3) for a relatively small cost! 

The only thing I really miss on the CP88 is true sympathetic string resonance and adjustable piano noises such as hammer/release and pedal noises. This has been highly requested in the Yamaha ideascale and I really hope Yamaha adds this to CP88! Their P515 already has these features and it would be great to have this on the CP88 (especially with their wonderful Hamburg Grand).

Also, the various iOS piano apps are continuously improving and Pianoteq 8 is coming soon which is constantly being improved.

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

Thank you Nord for giving us something to bitch or cheer about during this otherwise lame February.  

[CowboyNQ]

A Nord Stage 3 88 sold at my local music store currently costs 913 Big Macs.  By way of comparison the sunburst Kronos 88 will set you back 772 Big Macs, and a flight from Adelaide, Australia to Los Angeles, USA with QANTAS on Tuesday 9 May will require you to come up with 128 Big Macs.

 

Not sure what the price of a Stage 4 will be here but I’m guessing it will be Type-2 diabetes inducing.

[Stokely]

I'm sure Nord has done their market research and they'll sell this as expected.  IThere's a lot of people out there with a lot of money (and as noted, they aren't a huge company out to sell in vast quantities).

The reason people complain is that they have somewhat cornered the market on a do-everything single keyboard.  I get more frustrated at the other manufacturers than I do Nord.  By this time there could easily be a Stage competitor or 5 (Yamaha with the YC is slooooowwwwly getting there).   My SK pro has Stage-like tendancies but it also stops well short.  But it's true that it does no good to keep complaining.  I'll speak to Nord about it by not giving them my dollars, though I don't expect they'll listen very hard if they are selling the NS4 like they expect.

As noted, the built-in audio interfaces--often with dedicated volume controls as my Modx has--make it more palatable to run a tablet or laptop.  The ipad has the perfect form factor as it sits velcroed on my keyboard like a 2nd screen.  One short usb cable is all that is needed for midi and audio.  I only wish I had a bit more choice in apps, though B-3X is excellent.  Zeeon, Model 15, Model D and soon Pianoteq among others are available.

As far as the "price is only a little higher than it was before the sale"...not really.  Nord raised the prices of the NS3 by almost $1000 more than a year ago.  The recent 'sale' was basically to return the prices to what they were before the price hike.   

Anyway, my interest in this is now zero, other than the possibility, maybe, of more used NS3s being available if people want to upgrade.

[jeffincltnc]

Informally speaking, I like to get out and catch local gigging bands playing in my area when I can.  Taking out bands and shows with no keyboardist, here's what I usually end seeing in a typical band with a keyboard player:

 

Things I see a lot:  MODX, MOXF, Juno DS, Nord Electros (all versions), older generation Fantom & Motif synths (15-20 years old), older stage pianos (i.e. RD-700 series, CP4, CP33, etc.)

 

Things I sometimes/occasionally see:  Nord Stage (all versions), dedicated single manual Hammond or Hammond clone, Korg Kronos, Kurzweil PC series, Korg SV1

 

Things I almost never see:  Laptop/controller live configurations, Big 88 key Fantom/Montage boards, vintage Rhodes or Hammonds going out on gigs, dual manual clonewheels, Any modern Kurzweils except for maybe an SP piano here or there (no Fortes, PC4s or K2700s on any gigs here that I've spotted).  I don't remember the last time I've seen a weekend band roll out a Moog or Dave Smith instrument on a 2-3 board config for stuff I catch around here.  No Jupiter X's, Jupiter 80s, or System 8s.  No Nord Leads or Waves either.

 

I don't think Nord Stages are really targeted to the weekend warrior cover band player that never deviates from preset patches out of the box.  If you get it, you get it, and if you don't you will never be convinced otherwise that it's a different instrument.

[Stokely]

Cover band players (in my experience and knowing of others) most definitely don't just play presets.  This is why a lot of them (me included) use workstations.  I've never fired up the sequencer on any workstation I've owned--but I want the ability to have multiple splits and layers and to be able to recreate (to a point) specific sounds.  I do a ton of programming on my Modx, I don't use a single stock sound.  Most of the other players I know either purchase a lot of patches (Narfsounds etc) or do the same.

I spend a lot of time mapping certain control elements from the patches to the controls.  It's a PITA depending on the workstation.

A NS3/NS4 is perfect for my needs, especially since I'm not a "get it exactly like the record" guy.  I know because my Electro 6 was great for my band except for the lack of synth, but by the time I sold it to get a NS3, the prices jumped up ...argh. 

[AnotherScott]

 

8 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I think we are all quite aware most people don’t have $1k in the bank for emergencies.  🤷‍♂️ Cheap is definitely a relative term.  

 

Not that I'm suggesting this for people who don't have $1000 in the bank, but just as companies can make it easy for people with more limited resources to buy cars, you see things like Sweetwater offering 0% interest for 24 months on most gear. So a $5000 keyboard becomes $200 a month. And while the $4900 to $5700 of these models may be eyebrow raising, looking at the sigs, many people have spent more than that on their keyboards, and in some cases, this one board can do the job of multiple others (i.e. it might be cheaper than what many of us have paid for multiple boards to accomplish the same tasks). And that $5700 for the 88 is only $400 more than what the NS3-88 had been going for for a while. (Which, as an aside, might have given them some indication of what the rate of sales are for a board at that price compared to when the same board was lower.)

 

1 hour ago, Ibarch said:

Is there a reason why no-one is mentioning the Roland Rd-2000 as a competitor to the Nord Stage? 

 

Lack of VA synth might be the biggest fundamental difference... kind of closer in that respect to the Yamaha YC which similarly is part way between an Electro and a Stage, since it doesn't have the VA synth. 

 

3 hours ago, jyrkik said:

Unfortunately any other available option doesn`t do it either because I`m already so used to the single (carry) package of usably good pianos, epianos, organ and knobby synth. Every other option would mean at least two boards and/or flirting with SW instruments. Kurzweil would perhaps be close, but the organ... and how`s the K`s knobby synth?

 

I guess the closest might be the Hammond SK Pro, but it's weak on the pianos, and its knobby synth is only for the mono synth, poly synth sounds have only menu-based editing. I think it was a missed opportunity that they did not allow the mono-synth controls to be somehow selectable to affect the poly-synth parameters.

 

3 hours ago, jyrkik said:

Recently I purchased an YC73 as a potential contender. The organ was good as were the pianos. But it would have needed some kind of supporting synth device. Unfortunately the external controller features appeared to be very unwieldy. Hence, back to the shop went the YC.

 

Even though it would hang over the edge, the YC73 has room to velcro down something like a Roland JX-08. Then the only YC73 external function you really need is to enable or disable the JX-08 over some range of keys. Pretty much anything else you'd want to do could be done on the Roland itself.

 

One more thought about the pricing... It's not that uncommon that someone who likes Nord ends up with more than one. The NS4 is cheaper than, for example, an Electro 6 plus a Wave 2... and it does a lot that even that combination of two boards can't do. It may be funny to think of it this way, but for someone considering that combination... the NS4 is a money-saver. ;-)

 

[MAJUSCULE]

12 hours ago, JazzPiano88 said:

With the price comparisons, remember the B3 was the same price of a new Buick Skylark. 

 

The Nord is a months security deposit for apartment rental.  
 

A new Ford pickup with all of the extras is the price of a brand new concert Steinway.  
 

Musical instruments are cheap!
 

 

Not sure where you live but that’s a pricey apartment! After sales tax (and I live in a place that has no provincial tax), a Stage 4 88 would run me back about eight months of my mortgage. And that’s before accessories! 😬

[Noah DC]

1 hour ago, jeffinpghpa said:

I don't think Nord Stages are really targeted to the weekend warrior cover band player that never deviates from preset patches out of the box.  If you get it, you get it, and if you don't you will never be convinced otherwise that it's a different instrument.

This is an interesting point worth discussing (and man, why is it such a good time talking about this one keyboard during soggy, slow week in February…)

 

Commenting about the price is not so much “complaining” (as several folks are worked up about). It’s about trying to get a handle on who this $6,000 keyboard is intended for.

 

I actually believe the Nord Stage 4 is very much intended for the weekend warriors - or, to be more specific, for people with independent income. If you are a full-time musician piecing together work or touring small-medium-sized clubs and making, say, 30-40k/year from gigs and session work (generous, given today’s marketplace), it makes no sense to purchase this keyboard. $6k represents an enormous share of your annual earnings and you can get the same sounds just by hauling an extra gig bag or two to your jobs. It’s the folks who have independent income from a day job (of which I am one) that could afford to spend all that dough just to have the controls laid out in one place - or whatever other benefits people are talking up in this thread. Even the rich and famous touring acts might opt for other gear since the alleged benefits of using just one keyboard are lost when you have roadies. I will be surprised (and I’d love to be! Keeps things interesting) if we hear from that tier of working musicians that they are shelling out for a brand new Nord Stage 4 before the price drops or used models enter the market.