Keyboard submixer....

[Julius D Majestic Studios]

Someone just asked me about using the x32 as a keyboard submixer...

 

I said absolutely not.  (Not that it can't do the job because it can....)

 

But all jokes aside (especially at that price range), I'd suggest the Korg MW 2408/1608.  

 

X32 would kinda be overkill ... plus not as convenient because of all the XLR to 1/4 cables it would "really require"... 

 

What are y'all submixing keys with? 

CHECK OUT THE MW SOUNDLINK👀

[miden]

For solo work with hardware keys I use Rolls Mini-Mix Pro.

For gigs where I use either Surface Pro or iPad/iOS I use the Behringer Flow 8 digital.

[Mighty Motif Max]

I use an Ashley LX-308B for my synth rack; if I brought a rack to gigs anyways I'd submix using that unit as well; in practicality I just use a Yamaha MG10XU otherwise.

[Stokely]

I've changed a few times due to different requirements (if I need a pre-fader aux for example).  I run wired in-ears for monitors so that is a big consideration if I care to try to monitor my keys pre-FOH (which I typically do.)

I bought a small rolls but didn't end up using it much, instead used a Soundcraft notepad for a lot of gigs.  It does have a pre-fader send, I was using it to combine my monitor feed from FOH with my keyboards, I needed that send to avoid a loop.

Eventually since I was looking to get some radial DIs anyway I decided to get the Key Largo, which I am still using.  It has gone up in price quite a bit now.   I ended up getting a different Rolls, a pm55c, that I use at some gigs to combine the Key Largo monitor feed with my aux coming from FOH.  It's a headphone amp with a limiter.  Both are pre-wired on my pedalboard so I plug my keyboard(s) and headphones in and go.

[Baldwin Funster]

Behringer 1002. I like it because it's got a fader for the master output. I can push it up when im feeling buried.

Yeah not exactly a pro piece but neither am i.

[Julius D Majestic Studios]

Lots of good options mentioned here. 

[nursers]

Radial KL-8

[vonnor]

Hey JDB,

 

Without knowing how many sound sources (keyboards? etc.) are being utilized for the live show it's hard to recommend a mixer.

 

Since I use a combination of hardware synths/workstations and virtual instruments (VST) I am using a RME Fireface UC - USB Audio Interface. It has 8 line inputs and 6 line outputs and is controllable from a tablet/laptop. Because we're only playing small to medium size clubs our sound tech runs FOH in mono. The Fireface lets me send him isolated mono sigs for the Kronos, Forte, and I send the VST's on a third mono chan. It gives him a little more "slider-rider" control during each song. I can also mix stereo outs to the ear-bug transmitter for myself, and mix a monitor bus send into that as well.

 

It's a bit pricey but not really overkill for what I run.

 

If you're just running hardware synths I give a plus 1 to the KL-8 and/or LX-308B. The Ashley is my preference only due to it's internal power supply.

 

~ vonnor

[counterpoint]

Just a cover band guy.  A two-keyboard set up currently: YC61 over a PX5S.  I have the PX5S outputting into the YC then from the YC into the mixer...so that's one submix (I use the PX almost exclusively as a controller).  Straight forward enough there...no outboard mixer needed. 

 

Working VST's back into the mix.  Previously used the USB audio in the YC to do so which effectively made the YC my complete submixer...but bought a Presonus Series III 24r a couple months ago to use for the entire band.  Reconfiguring the computer to output the VST's into two different channels of the 24r (via USB connection) than the YC/PX5S.  Using 2 of the 12 aux outputs on the 24r for stereo In-ear monitoring controlled via Q mix-UC app so I can bring the feeds back however I want.  Gives separate control for YC and VST's (and/or backing tracks) to FOH (which leads to other questions better in separate thread).  Anyway, perhaps that is something similar to what the OP's friend was thinking when he/she was thinking of using the X32 as a keyboard submixer...maybe it's for more than just the keys?  Otherwise. if it's just for the keys...yes...definitely overkill...

[Stokely]

XR18 (though I think I heard this may be discontinued?) would make more sense for keys...though you'd need an ipad to control it.   Not all that expensive, has effects if you need them, lots of routing if you want to bring back FOH monitor in stereo if you can...still overkill for just a couple keyboards.

Our band has a small QSC touchmix they use for duo gigs, that might be an option.  The touchmix mixers are nice.  Again though these probably have a lot more features than needed as they are FOH mixers.

I'm going to see what kind of latency I get with the Key Largo's audio interface and my macbook pro.  I got a wild hair and picked up mainstage and while I'd never depend solely on a laptop live, I do have a lot of nice VSTs that would be fun to fold into my hardware sounds.   Being able to edit patches on a 32" monitor where everything tends to be on one screen is a huge advantage over doing it on a keyboard.    Extra bonus if I can find a nice mono piano.  Most of my piano vsts didn't fare well in mono, CFX lite probably did the best.  The S700 (or S6? can't recall now) that someone suggested I try on the MODX was an improvement over the CFX in mono, but I'm still looking around.   Which leads me to a PSA--Soniccouture is having  a great bundle sale if you need their type of stuff...5 or 10 libraries at a huge discount per library.  They make the Canterbury Suitcase and Hammersmith Pro piano, and the Hammersmith has a microphone option to use a mono recording.

[DJkeys]

1 hour ago, Dr Nursers said:

Radial KL-8

This is what I use as well for live gigs.

 

-dj

[TommyRude]

11 hours ago, Julius D Majestic Studios said:

X32 would kinda be overkill ... plus not as convenient because of all the XLR to 1/4 cables it would "really require"... 

FWIW, you can plug 1/4" cables into the XR18 - they accept both XLR and 1/4". 

 

The Radial Key Largo is a good choice and built like a tank.

[Delaware Dave]

I use this:

 

[mynameisdanno]

Totally depends on the rig of course.  I have used, and enjoyed, in various scenarios:

 

Radial Key Largo (the standby for sure)

Radial KL-8

Radial Space Heater

MOTU UltraLite AVB

Midas MR18, for one particularly large touring rig

 

I tend to avoid standard form-factor mixers, since keyboard submixing is ideally a set-and-forget enterprise, and faders are just a waste of space and limit placement options for the mixer on stage, and are more prone to dust-related issues over time than knobs.  When there's vintage gear in the rig (usually a Wurly or analog synth) I do sometimes wish for channel EQ, but if it's really important I can either run it through an EQ pedal or something, or bring a digital mixer.

[Julius D Majestic Studios]

9 hours ago, vonnor said:

Hey JDB,

 

Without knowing how many sound sources (keyboards? etc.) are being utilized for the live show it's hard to recommend a mixer.

 

Since I use a combination of hardware synths/workstations and virtual instruments (VST) I am using a RME Fireface UC - USB Audio Interface. It has 8 line inputs and 6 line outputs and is controllable from a tablet/laptop. Because we're only playing small to medium size clubs our sound tech runs FOH in mono. The Fireface lets me send him isolated mono sigs for the Kronos, Forte, and I send the VST's on a third mono chan. It gives him a little more "slider-rider" control during each song. I can also mix stereo outs to the ear-bug transmitter for myself, and mix a monitor bus send into that as well.

 

It's a bit pricey but not really overkill for what I run.

 

If you're just running hardware synths I give a plus 1 to the KL-8 and/or LX-308B. The Ashley is my preference only due to it's internal power supply.

 

~ vonnor

Yeah he didn't say it was for a live show he just asked about what would be a good keyboard submixer...and asked if I could recommend the x32 for it. 

[Julius D Majestic Studios]

He's trying to get a 32 input setup for a home studio. 

[Dave Bryce]

Speck X.Sum 32 x 4

 

“Pure analog, ultra low noise.”

 

 

👍🥰

 

dB

[cphollis]

I started using the XR18 after I upgraded the band to a X32.  Yes, it's overkill, but in a very useful way.  For example, with no shortage of inputs, I can plug in three stereo keyboards as well as mix in FOH monitor send or an ambient room mic.  The six auxes means I can send all my boards to the FOH using individual channels, or create a mix to send to FOH, depending on situation.  The "main" mix is what I hear through IEMs :).  The compression and EQ are useful, the other effects are sort of of meh.  If you're buying, try to buy used as mine has been indestructible.

 

Also props for both the Key Largo and KL.  Great kit.

[mate stubb]

Without trying to, I have ended up with quite a collection of live keyboard mixers. I still own:

 

Roland M120

Ashley LX308

Yamaha MG06x

Yamaha MG10x

Radial Key Largo

Radial KL8

[Anderton]

Audio interfaces I don't use anymore (goodbye, FireWire !) that can still mix inputs together, and have enough front panel controls they don't need to connect to a computer.

[Al Coda]

5 hours ago, mate stubb said:

Without trying to, I have ended up with quite a collection of live keyboard mixers. I still own:

 

Roland M120

Ashley LX308

Yamaha MG06x

Yamaha MG10x

Radial Key Largo

Radial KL8

 

Over the years, I collected some too,-

 

Ashly MX508

Mackie 1604 VLZ

Roland M160  (x2)

Rolls RM-203

MAM KM-122

Alto ZMX 52

 

☺️

 

A.C.

[TJ Cornish]

MOTU 828x for me - I run a mix to the house, a mix to myself (in-ear transmitter in my rack), and a click mix. I have had a love/hate relationship with soft synths (mostly hate - I’m an IT guy and deal with enough broken computers at work), so I use a Thunderbolt docking station as a single cable connection to a laptop providing power and data and then to the 828x if I want to get audio out of my Mac. 

 

The various XR18/X32 mixers are fine, but they are big. I like the MOTUs because they are 1U.

[jeffincltnc]

I use a Radial Key Largo for 2 keyboards + computer.

 

For larger I would also put the Presonus StudioLive 16R and 24R (or even 32R) on the list as well.  The 16R only takes one Rack unit which is a great form factor although I think that 4 inputs go into the back instead of the front.

 

The 24R has 24 inputs into the front and lots of output options for monitor/IEM mixes.  I think the Fat Channel effects and form factor are great on these products.

 

The XR18 and MR18 from Behringer are pretty much out of stock for the foreseeable future, but you can find them for sale at prices over $1,000++ and I think I would look elsewhere if the price was going into this range.  (so -- Allen & Heaeth Qu-SB and Soundcraft Ui24R come to mind).

 

Behringer does have a nice ecosystem of physical faders, headphone distribution systems and expansion boxes that are good to bridge a stage/monitoring amplification system to front of house (which is what cphollis does).  Keep in mind, I am a person who is not a fan of Behringer because I don't agree with many of their business practices and philosophies, but I believe the X-Air and X-32 products and the Midas badged versions with the better preamps and connectors are excellent products.

 

I think a lot of it also comes down to what kind of tool you want to submix.  I love the quality of a Radial Key Largo, but in other cases, I prefer to make adjustments on my phone or an iPad.

 

Mackie has the DL32S and a 16 channel version as well, but I think they are like Behringer and not manufacturing anything right now due to parts and chip shortages.  (not sure if QSC is making Touchmixes either).  So you have to kind of work with what is available these days, too.

 

For all of the iPad based products from Behringer, Allen & Heath, Presonus, Soundcraft and Mackie you can also download their app for free and see which interface you like best.  Soundcraft does not use an app and is actually an application server that mixes in a standard web browser, so you don't have to worry about OS or compatibility issues there.

[Ledbetter]

I use an Alesis 8. If I was buying now, I’d get the small Mackie.

[Adam Burgess]

On 8/8/2022 at 6:44 AM, Julius D Majestic Studios said:

Someone just asked me about using the x32 as a keyboard submixer...

 

I said absolutely not.  (Not that it can't do the job because it can....)

 

But all jokes aside (especially at that price range), I'd suggest the Korg MW 2408/1608.  

 

X32 would kinda be overkill ... plus not as convenient because of all the XLR to 1/4 cables it would "really require"... 

 

What are y'all submixing keys with? 

CHECK OUT THE MW SOUNDLINK👀

XR18, only because my X32 rack is installed at home!

[kenheeter]

XR12. Replaced my Key Largo because it allowed me to mix monitor feed in with my keyboard rig. Extremely flexible and small.

 

[counterpoint]

Curious...are all of you just using separate keyboard mixers to reduce your outputs from multiple keyboards/sources to one or two for FOH?  Maybe that plus creating some kind of hybrid monitor mix for yourself like kenheeter?  Anyone using one for extra EQ-ing, effects, signal processing or something else?  In my effort to lighten the load and streamline my set-up, between the ability of the YC to mix itself, another keyboard and a USB audio source and having a digital mixer for FOH that lets you bring back and control whatever monitor feed you want directly from that mixer, I have gladly shed mine.

[kenheeter]

The YC is great for that but in my case I use my stage amp system for vocal monitor as well. The XR12 not only allows for mixing and EQ but provides stereo balanced XLR feeds to FOH. It is an extra piece but no D.I. boxes required. I play and monitor in stereo and send a stereo feed to FOH when possible.  I have found that sound engineers appreciate that there is no need to provide me a vocal monitor, just XLR outs and in from the board. The XR 12 is small and fits in my gig suitcase.

[Delaware Dave]

3 hours ago, counterpoint said:

Curious...are all of you just using separate keyboard mixers to reduce your outputs from multiple keyboards/sources to one or two for FOH?  Maybe that plus creating some kind of hybrid monitor mix for yourself like kenheeter?  Anyone using one for extra EQ-ing, effects, signal processing or something else?  In my effort to lighten the load and streamline my set-up, between the ability of the YC to mix itself, another keyboard and a USB audio source and having a digital mixer for FOH that lets you bring back and control whatever monitor feed you want directly from that mixer, I have gladly shed mine.

 

Reasons that I use a separate mixer:

 

1) I have 3 to 4 outputs from keyboards which I couldn't run directly into my PPA nor FOH without a device that can take all the inputs and supply the needed combined output(s) to my monitors and also to FOH

2) I EQ the instruments differently (organ has a different channel EQ setting than the Piano and different than the EP's, so I run keyboard outputs into different channels of my mixer and get a proper 'channel' EQ mix to optimize the instruments.

3) Gain Staging: The mixer output optimizes the hot signal needed to drive my Personal Monitors

4) Outputs on mine are XLR, so I get a +4 output into my PPA and also use an XLR output to the FOH therefore no Direct Box needed to FOH.  It also helps with reducing noise to both FOH and my PPA

5) My mixer also has a global EQ, some places depending on where I position my monitor may have a different bass/mid/treble impact vs. other establishments so I use the global EQ to get a better stage balance.

 

[HammondDave]

Here is my keyboard mixer…. 4 ins (6, including the Numa sounds), 2 outs.