Hammond vs Vox/Farfisa

[CyberGene]

1 hour ago, GovernorSilver said:

I like the Farfisa usage here.  When this song was all over the radio in the early 80s, I had no idea they were going for 60s music aesthetics.

I hope this won't come as disrespectful but this song just doesn't make any sense to me from a music standpoint. Sounds like those people desperately wanted to create parody or something to the effect of that. Not saying that's a bad thing and there's music for everybody but that song just confirms what I said in my original post: for some reason transistor organs mostly create the feeling of something comic and cartoonish in my ears. 

[GovernorSilver]

8 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

I hope this won't come as disrespectful but this song just doesn't make any sense to me from a music standpoint. Sounds like those people desperately wanted to create parody or something to the effect of that. Not saying that's a bad thing and there's music for everybody but that song just confirms what I said in my original post: for some reason transistor organs mostly create the feeling of something comic and cartoonish in my ears. 

 

Not everybody liked that song as documented by peaking only in the 50s on the Billboard chart.

 

Around that time period, "Whip It!" by Devo also hit the airwaves.  First time I heard it, me and my friend just looked at each other and laughed - it was one of the funniest songs we ever heard.  Now I just love the song out of nostalgia.  Same applies to "Rock Lobster".

 

You don't have to like what I like.  And of course this works the other way too.

 

Anyway, you going to cover those Doors songs with Hammond sounds?  I think it'd be interesting - well, because I proposed the idea LOL

[Franz Schiller]

9 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

I hope this won't come as disrespectful but this song just doesn't make any sense to me from a music standpoint. Sounds like those people desperately wanted to create parody or something to the effect of that. Not saying that's a bad thing and there's music for everybody but that song just confirms what I said in my original post: for some reason transistor organs mostly create the feeling of something comic and cartoonish in my ears. 

 

I'm surprised that you're 42 (I'm 45) and it seems like you've never heard Rock Lobster before, and it seems like you're not familiar with the B-52s or their aesthetic. Like, I can't remember a time when I didn't know that song. Don't get me wrong, I don't like Rock Lobster at all. I guess I'm just surprised that it's so alien to you, and you're just a few years younger than me. But hey, that's cool.

[GovernorSilver]

When I was a teen, up to actually only a few years ago, I disliked much of the 60s pop music aesthetic, so I kind of get where the OP is coming from.  "Rock Lobster" escaped my anti-60s-aesthetic filter because I considered it a contemporary song, not an "old people" song.

 

I can't explain how the change in tastes happened.  I'm sure it was a slow and gradual thing.  Part of it might have been befriending 20-something year old musos who were into 60s 7-inch vinyl records - collecting, playing them at DJ events, etc.

 

One thing I've noticed is the more time and energy I put into creative activities, the less energy I have to focus on things I don't like.

[CyberGene]

39 minutes ago, Franz Schiller said:

I'm surprised that you're 42 (I'm 45) and it seems like you've never heard Rock Lobster before, and it seems like you're not familiar with the B-52s or their aesthetic.

 

There's a very easy explanation. As ridiculous as it may sound, I used to listen only to classical music in my teens (with the only exception being Queen and Pink Floyd for a very brief period before I started playing the piano) then after 4-5 years I switched almost entirely to jazz for another 10 years. I grew tired of it eventually and returned back to classical but also started opening my ears for all the music on earth and making up for the lost formation years in pop and rock 😀 I've been discovering some old rock and pop stuff only recently...

[analogman1]

Love this thread!
Funny thing...in the 70's I was gigging with a Hammond Porta B and Leslie 760; Also put it through a straight amp (Acoustic PA head and Fender bottom). I wanted "other" types of synthy, sustained sounds but couldnt afford any other keyoards so I took my old home organ, a Wurlitzer 4300, and our roadie figured a way to run it through my amp. Sounded massive!

Of course a lot of cheesy transistor sounds but a very similar tone to the Gibson G101 (I say "similar" as only a comparison, the Gibson has a much beefier tone!) But nevertheless I was using "that sound" and not even realizing it!
Ahhh...nostalgia... 

[Polychrest]

Bob Wiseman’s Acetone from his days with Blue Rodeo.  He donated it to a Kids Help Phone charity auction nine years ago.  Don’t know what inspired the paint job.

[analogika]

1 hour ago, CyberGene said:

It's an interesting music which has a certain vintage mood, so indeed the transistor sound is working well, although it's very withdrawn and well mixed with the other instruments and I wouldn't have noticed it's what it is if I didn't know. Glad you didn't make a solo with it though 😀

you mean like here? (This was a Farfisa; same core band):

 

 

[CyberGene]

^ That’s very good! Not something I would listen to by itself but I imagine it as a soundtrack to those black comedies of Guy Ritchie 👌🏻I’m serious, it’s really good and I think it requires great talent and fine sense to be able to produce music that sounds genuinely vintage 🤝

[cassdad]

On 6/29/2022 at 5:05 AM, JamPro said:

My first keyboard was a transistor-kind of organ, by the maker Rheem.  I bought it, a 15" speaker and a sparkle red tuck-and-roll Fender head at a pawn shop in Boston MA. for $300 bucks.  I kept going to different music stores looking for a stomp-box pedal that would make it sound more like the cool organ tones I was hearing on Allman Bros. records, but nothing I tried did the trick. (lol)  I sometimes see those keyboards for sale on Reverb, and sometimes feel I should buy one for nostalgia's sake.

 

Flash forward a couple of years, and I bought a used Yamaha YC-45 dual manual transistor organ.  By this time, I had become somewhat hipper to organ sounds, and I ran it thru an old Leslie speaker I had modified to accept a 1/4" input.  That Yamaha sounded pretty good going thru the Leslie; almost like a Hammond.  I played that rig for a couple of years in a Grateful Dead clone band I was in.  That was one cool keyboard capable of a wide variety of sounds, but it is not a Hammond.

 

So my early keyboard years were spent using transistor organs and trying to get them to sound more like a Hammond/Leslie combo. 

 

Interestingly, my current organ set-up is a Hammond XK3 played thru a Motion Sound Pro 145, and with all that Hammond and Leslie goodness at my command, my favorite sound is organ with the Leslie stopped.  I heard this Ray Charles album where he plays a Hammond without a Leslie (IIRC, the recording is Genius + Soul = Jazz), and fell in love with that sound - which to me sounds yet more hipper than all the Hammond + Leslie in rock recordings I have listen to.

 

But I don't really like the sound of transistor organs.  That "96 Tears" thing always makes my ears wanna puke.

My first band keyboard was also the Rheem!  We affectionately called it the “screamin’ Rheem”.  Rheem also made home water heaters!  We got a real kick out of that!

[kaptainkeys]

1 minute ago, cassdad said:

My first band keyboard was also the Rheem!  We affectionately called it the “screamin’ Rheem”.  Rheem also made home water heaters!  We got a real kick out of that!

Steve Porcaro of Toto has often spoken about his first organ which was also a Rheem.  He later traded it in for a Farfisa and 122.

[GovernorSilver]

Lyle Mays stated that he used the Yamaha YC-20 organ on just about every Pat Metheny Group record.

 

I can't tell if he was still using the YC-20 by the time this record was made or if he'd gone to using rompler organs, but I like the sound.  It's Lyle

 

 

He probably used it on this earlier track.   He said he preferred the "cheap garage band organ"  sound - I guess B3 would have sounded too opulent for "American Garage"?  😄

 

 

[El Lobo]

I gig with a Nord 5D because I really want a good B3/Leslie simulation in a highly portable 61-key board. I love the drawbars, even though I don't use them as my organ sound is always set on the Jimmy Smith bottom 3 drawbars all the way out and other bars all the way in. If I move the other drawbars, I always end up putting them back in. I only pull them all out if I want a big, churchy sound for an effect. I only use the Farfisa sound when I want to sound cheezy or I want a 60's vibe. I play the 96 Tears lick to make my bandmates react in horror. But we've recently been doing Summertime Blues. The original was just guitar. I've tried out piano, wurly, rhodes, and B3 organ sounds on those chord changes and nothing sounded right. Then I tried the Farfisa sound and my bandmates went yeah! that works! So there's some serious use for it after all.  

[BluesB3]

Interesting thread. As mentioned, not all "transistor" organs are cheeze. When I was a young kid starting out at 15 yrs old, the local piano salesman convinced my parents that a Hammond M3 was a bad choice due to the oil for the tonewheels. I think he even had one on the sales floor with a oil puddle underneath. I ended up with a Baldwin Orgasonic as my first organ and a book of installment payment coupons. It didn't sound that bad and was well made. It gave me a lot of practice moving an organ with Roll'r'Karis. When the Baldwin was totaled in a T-bone crash on the way to gig, I took the insurance money and bought a gray Combo Compact from Chuck Levin. It and a blonde Tremolux lasted me through college. For some reason I sold the Farfisa and the amp to the local Shriner's band for use on a parade float. Wish I still had that amp.

 

All this is to say... some 3 decades later after not gigging I was invited to jam with some other film techs in Atlanta. They had a Farfisa Compact like mine and a Wurlie 200. I walked away with no nostalgia for the Farfisa and a severe Jones for a Wurlie.

 

When I want to emulate a cheeze organ, I dial up some even drawbars with an little 5 1/3 in there and V3. That's close enough for me.

[Doerfler]

4 hours ago, CyberGene said:

I hope this won't come as disrespectful but this song just doesn't make any sense to me from a music standpoint. Sounds like those people desperately wanted to create parody or something to the effect of that. Not saying that's a bad thing and there's music for everybody but that song just confirms what I said in my original post: for some reason transistor organs mostly create the feeling of something comic and cartoonish in my ears. 

everyone has an opinion, that's what a forum is all about.

Rolling Stone magazine (most people have heard of it) has Rock Lobster listed at #147 of the "TOP 500 GREATEST SONGS OF ALL TIME". In my world that's pretty high praise. 

As always YMMV (you did bold "in my ears" in your post so I believe you are sincere)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Lobster

[Moonglow]

I enjoyed how the transistor organ was used in the "Ocean's" movie soundtracks. It felt it cranked up the intensity and fit in well with the vibe of the movie. Here's one from Ocean's 13. The title of the song refers to one of the characters in the movie, a daredevil motorcyclist who ironically went by the name of “Fender Roads.” I would love to know the story behind how they selected that name!

 

 

[El Lobo]

6 hours ago, BluesB3 said:

I walked away with no nostalgia for the Farfisa and a severe Jones for a Wurlie.

Never had a Farfisa but I gave up my Wurly in a divorce back in the 70's. Yeah, I still have a Jones for that. On all my electronic boards I never care about the Rhodes sounds, it's the Wurly sound I'm drawn to. Maybe we all are nostalgic for our first electric love.

 

... and I remember those Fender Bandmaster amps we had in the 60's. 

[Tom Williams]

I often wonder what I could do with my long-gone Farfisa VIP 345 today, as I have learned a lot in the past decade (late bloomer?) about Hammond registration.

 

More on topic, I started with a red Combo Compact, gone since the mid 1970s, and I wonder again: if I added a little chorus or even Leslie to it, what musical use could I put it to?  e.g., the oboe voice has no Hammond equivalent, and the multi-tone booster comprised a heck of a wave-munging poly synth.  Hmm, now I have a deep desire to simulate the latter on my Kurzweil.

[Legatoboy]

Being about as old as Benmont Tench minus a year and having lived through the early 60's combo organ craze to late 60's Hammond phase as a youngster as he  did...

I would have to say they each have their place for me...and I was a sort of combo organ nut like many my age from about 1963 to 1967 but unlike Benmont .... I had no trouble leaving the combo organ in it's secondary role and embracing my Hammond/Leslie love ... I mainly use combo organ as a novelty showcase sound that the  band/i would showcase in a typical night sets twice,  depending on what tunes were called... I went from a small GEM combo (they made Voxx organs but sold under their own MFG name) in '67/'68 and a 2 12 Fender Bassman  to a Whitehall Organ (sold by Sam Ash) and a 120 Leslie and eventually a 145 Leslie  to a Hammond M3/145 to a Hammond C3/122/RMI piano/MiniMoog... from 1967 to 1972 , so within 5 years, gigging almost every weekend w/often 2 nighters in the same venue as they often did then in those days. The band had a truck of course... the band just loved moving the C3 .... the M3 was not bad with 3-4 people... the C3 often needed 4 or more especially if steps were involved...It's all good! . 

[Reezekeys]

My first keyboard - I got it when I was 13 years old. The Whitehall "Grand Prix Duo." I think they sold them at Sears, though my memory is that I got it at the Sam Ash in White Plains, NY. Or maybe that was the Crumar T1B I got a few years later.

 

I can say this for my part - there was never a sense of "this is the sound of today's music so I need this." It was simply "I need a keyboard I can have my parents help me bring to other kids' houses to play with my bandmates. Hey, now I can be IN A BAND!" That, coupled with the fact that Hammonds, Rhodes and Wurlies were way out of my financial reach, sealed things. It had keys, it made a sound, I could be "in a band" - end of discussion. I had a trio - myself, a guitarist and drummer. We played Cream, Hendrix, Grand Funk Railroad, Cold Blood and similar. Me on this beast, playing LH bass too! Hard to imagine now, I wish I had a tape.

 

[Franz Schiller]

16 hours ago, CyberGene said:

 

There's a very easy explanation. As ridiculous as it may sound, I used to listen only to classical music in my teens (with the only exception being Queen and Pink Floyd for a very brief period before I started playing the piano) then after 4-5 years I switched almost entirely to jazz for another 10 years. I grew tired of it eventually and returned back to classical but also started opening my ears for all the music on earth and making up for the lost formation years in pop and rock 😀 I've been discovering some old rock and pop stuff only recently...

Ah well, fair enough! That also explains why it makes no sense to you musically.

[AnotherScott]

17 hours ago, CyberGene said:

 

There's a very easy explanation. As ridiculous as it may sound, I used to listen only to classical music in my teens (with the only exception being Queen and Pink Floyd for a very brief period before I started playing the piano) then after 4-5 years I switched almost entirely to jazz for another 10 years. I grew tired of it eventually and returned back to classical but also started opening my ears for all the music on earth and making up for the lost formation years in pop and rock 😀 I've been discovering some old rock and pop stuff only recently...

 

Here's a playlist of Mellotron stuff, maybe some of it will help show you the appeal of that instrument (though it's missing any of the King Crimson classics)...

 

 

[CyberGene]

50 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Here's a playlist of Mellotron stuff, maybe some of it will help show you the appeal of that instrument

Thank you, I just finished it (well, 30 seconds each since I switched from Spotify to Apple Music a few years ago and will have to listen to the corresponding full versions on Apple Music). Actually I mostly liked what I heard in most of these which I believe is some kind of strings. I think what I really dislike is the Mellotron flutes, although as already stated, there are some songs where these flutes sit more than well. BTW, I have the Arturia Mellotron and I found out that with some creative effects it can sound very lush.

 

Speaking about vintage string sounds, I do love the typical string machine sound, such as the Solina (and those in vocoder keyboards such as Roland-whatever, etc.) I hope they introduce more Solina sounds for the YC/CP.

[Shamanzarek]

Ray Manzarek didn't "choose" the Vox Continental. He had a Wurly EP at the beginning of The Doors. The Doors were briefly signed to Columbia Records. No recordings were produced but Columbia sent them to Thomas Organ in Sepulveda which was the American distributor for Vox. They were supplied with amps, guitar, and a Vox Continental. The early photos of The Doors on stage at the London Fog in Hollywood show Ray with the Continental but no Fender Rhodes Piano Bass. He didn't find out about about the Piano Bass until later when they auditioned at another club and there happened to be a Continental and Piano Bass there. He didn't choose the gold sparkle top Bass either. He wanted the silver top but when they went to the Hollywood Wallach's Music City all they had in stock was the gold top. Columbia Records picked up the tab for that, too.

 

There are plenty of modern keyboards available with Continental emulations. There are no emulations of the Gibson G101 or much in the way of Lowrey sounds available that I know of. If you want the full capabilities of that organ you have no choice but to get the real deal. I have been using a G101 with Doors tribute bands since 1992. I have often used a Continental and while I prefer it for certain songs the Gibson does the full range of effects like sustain, repeat, and half-step down pitch bend. I was first introduced to the pitch bend and sustain on my music teacher's Lowrey spinet in the early 60s.

 

Before The Doors Ray did some recordings with Rick and the Ravens which included his two brothers Rick and Jim. He plays a Hammond organ which was likely owned by the recording studio.

 

 

 

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, CyberGene said:

Actually I mostly liked what I heard in most of these which I believe is some kind of strings. I think what I really dislike is the Mellotron flutes, although as already stated, there are some songs where these flutes sit more than well.

Although many mellotron sounds were available, the most common unit could only hold three. Strings, flutes, and voices are probably the most well known. 

[funkyhammond]

I never thought I'd ever use the transistor organ sounds in my Nord C1 and then I joined an afrobeat band. It was a ton of fun. This is one of the tunes we used to cover: 

 

 

[DrEsophagus]

On 6/29/2022 at 12:42 PM, Bill H. said:

There is a story (and I don't have time to look it up - sorry) that the band bought Ray a Hammond console later on, but he hardly used it. 

He used the Hammond only very little on Morrison Hotel, and a bit more on LA Woman - Texas Radio and on Changeling, he did some pretty cool stuff with the drawbars I recall. It changed their sound quite a bit but was alright.

[Spider76]

I'm also not a big fan of transistor organs, but I must admit the Farfisa has some real raw power, even without distortion or effects you can blow speakers (and eardrums) at will.

 

The Vox instead always sounded weak and cheesy to me...but I'll aknowledge that the classic Continental is probably the most beautiful keyboard ever built.

If I had the space, I'd keep one in my music room only for the looks!

 

[AUSSIEKEYS]

57 minutes ago, Spider76 said:

but I'll aknowledge that the classic Continental is probably the most beautiful keyboard ever built.

If I had the space, I'd keep one in my music room only for the looks!

 

Gotta agree. I had a Vox Jaguar. Same cabinet and look. Beautiful.

 

Best looking legs on a keyboard yet when gigging it sat on top my Yamaha CP 30 piano and later my Arp 4 voice piano thus needing a "jerry rigged" gantry to support its rear (made of dexion slotted rack) thus eliminating it beautiful legs.

 

I often wished Id kept it just for its looks.

[Outkaster]

On 6/30/2022 at 7:24 PM, BluesB3 said:

Interesting thread. As mentioned, not all "transistor" organs are cheeze. When I was a young kid starting out at 15 yrs old, the local piano salesman convinced my parents that a Hammond M3 was a bad choice due to the oil for the tonewheels. I think he even had one on the sales floor with a oil puddle underneath. I ended up with a Baldwin Orgasonic as my first organ and a book of installment payment coupons. It didn't sound that bad and was well made. It gave me a lot of practice moving an organ with Roll'r'Karis. When the Baldwin was totaled in a T-bone crash on the way to gig, I took the insurance money and bought a gray Combo Compact from Chuck Levin. It and a blonde Tremolux lasted me through college. For some reason I sold the Farfisa and the amp to the local Shriner's band for use on a parade float. Wish I still had that amp.

 

All this is to say... some 3 decades later after not gigging I was invited to jam with some other film techs in Atlanta. They had a Farfisa Compact like mine and a Wurlie 200. I walked away with no nostalgia for the Farfisa and a severe Jones for a Wurlie.

 

When I want to emulate a cheeze organ, I dial up some even drawbars with an little 5 1/3 in there and V3. That's close enough for me.

  Back then a lot of piano and organ stores tried to persuade people to buy gear they really didn't need or wasn't any good.