Hammond vs Vox/Farfisa

[nadroj]

I play a lot of ska stuff. I’ve never liked playing transistor sounds, but 90% of my live playing is Vox and piano. The 80s British 2-tone revival craze had a lot of Vox in it. Some of it was just because the working class boys couldn’t get a hold of a Hammond. A little is because they liked it. 
 

I used to use “cheesy” Hammond sounds as someone alluded to earlier (white drawbars out, V3, bob’s your uncle) but during COVID I started playing around with the Vox sounds and it sounded more authentic. 
 

Problem is, depending on the venue the Nord transistor organs either struggle to cut through, or pierce your ear drums. At a festival last night I couldn’t pull anything other than the first 4 bars out on my Vox patch because it just sounded awful (other than the last 2, obviously). I normally just pull the 6+7 bars out on the Nord Vox to cut through. First 4 is the tone.
 

The funny thing is, when these ska bands play those classic Vox songs live today, they all use Hammonds. Every other ska keys player I know sticks to Hammond. I’m tempted to do the same. The Vox sounds authentic, but that doesn’t mean it always sounds pleasant. 
 

Some of the transistor examples above have been stellar. Turns out they can actually sound pretty cool when they want to be. 

[Shamanzarek]

The original Vox Continentals were made in England. There were a few variations in the course of it's development but it was a good quality instrument. It may be the only Combo Organ ever made with wooden keys. It had more mixtures than other portable organs of the time though all mixtures were controlled by the IV drawbar so not as flexible as a Hammond. The Farfisa Compact didn't have a mixture until the Compact Deluxe and Compact Duo. A late 1965 fire at the Erith, Kent factory crippled Continental production. In early 1966 Thomas Organ started producing Continentals to meet demand. The American made model had the wooden keys and high quality drawbars. One significant difference was the use of silicon transistors which were more stable than the germanium transistors used in the British models. After about four months production was moved to Italy. The Italian models went back to germanium transistors and introduced plastic keys. The drawbars were of lower quality and lacked the precision feel of earlier models. After about a year of Italian production they started using lower quality electrolytic capacitors. If you find an un-serviced example from about 1967 it will likely have nearly all the electrolytic caps leaking or ruptured. The British, American, and 1966 Italian models rarely have problems with the caps. Caps in the Farfisa Compact also hold up well even though they are well beyond their rated lifespan. The sound of the Continental didn't change much through the years of production. I have used British, American, and Italian Continentals and I only detect slight variations in sound which may not have much to do with where it was made. I have one 1966 Italian model that sounds exceptionally good.

[bill bosco]

18 hours ago, Shamanzarek said:

The original Vox Continentals were made in England. There were a few variations in the course of it's development but it was a good quality instrument. It may be the only Combo Organ ever made with wooden keys. It had more mixtures than other portable organs of the time though all mixtures were controlled by the IV drawbar so not as flexible as a Hammond. The Farfisa Compact didn't have a mixture until the Compact Deluxe and Compact Duo. A late 1965 fire at the Erith, Kent factory crippled Continental production. In early 1966 Thomas Organ started producing Continentals to meet demand. The American made model had the wooden keys and high quality drawbars. One significant difference was the use of silicon transistors which were more stable than the germanium transistors used in the British models. After about four months production was moved to Italy. The Italian models went back to germanium transistors and introduced plastic keys. The drawbars were of lower quality and lacked the precision feel of earlier models. After about a year of Italian production they started using lower quality electrolytic capacitors. If you find an un-serviced example from about 1967 it will likely have nearly all the electrolytic caps leaking or ruptured. The British, American, and 1966 Italian models rarely have problems with the caps. Caps in the Farfisa Compact also hold up well even though they are well beyond their rated lifespan. The sound of the Continental didn't change much through the years of production. I have used British, American, and Italian Continentals and I only detect slight variations in sound which may not have much to do with where it was made. I have one 1966 Italian model that sounds exceptionally good.

had a farfisa combo compact purchased brand new around '67 or '68 . didn't use it much after '72 . within a few more years circuit boards started failing , it didn't

even last ten years

[Bill H.]

22 hours ago, Shamanzarek said:

In early 1966 Thomas Organ started producing Continentals to meet demand. The American made model had the wooden keys and high quality drawbars. One significant difference was the use of silicon transistors which were more stable than the germanium transistors used in the British models.

 

After having played all three versions of the Continental at one point or another, the only one I felt was a quality instrument was the Sepulveda manufactured V-301H. Curious about Hammond Dave's opinion - I would trust him more than my fuzzy recollections. 

[Legatoboy]

GEM Jaguar - sound sample

On 7/1/2022 at 9:17 AM, Reezekeys said:

My first keyboard - I got it when I was 13 years old. The Whitehall "Grand Prix Duo." I think they sold them at Sears, though my memory is that I got it at the Sam Ash in White Plains, NY. Or maybe that was the Crumar T1B I got a few years later.

 

I can say this for my part - there was never a sense of "this is the sound of today's music so I need this." It was simply "I need a keyboard I can have my parents help me bring to other kids' houses to play with my bandmates. Hey, now I can be IN A BAND!" That, coupled with the fact that Hammonds, Rhodes and Wurlies were way out of my financial reach, sealed things. It had keys, it made a sound, I could be "in a band" - end of discussion. I had a trio - myself, a guitarist and drummer. We played Cream, Hendrix, Grand Funk Railroad, Cold Blood and similar. Me on this beast, playing LH bass too! Hard to imagine now, I wish I had a tape.

 

Rezzkeys the Whitehall was my 2nd serious axe... I ran it through a brand new Leslie 145/Combo PreAmp in 1969. I bought it at Sam Ash In Huntington. The Leslie 145/Combo at the old Silver and Horland in Uptown Manhattan, where my bro bought his cymbals.   I now live in Huntington and Ash where I bought the Whitehall is still here also... We were out from Queens then w/Dad and Bro (a drummer) on the purchase.  I gigged the Whitehall for about 6 -8 months before upgrading to an Ebony Hammond M3 with the Leslie 145 I purchased for $300 from an elderly lady in Port Washington LI, NY.   Had a lot of gigs in 1969 playing with then w/older established players/band.... My  1st combo organ was a GEM Jaguar... GEM (GeneralMusic, yes the same) Made Voxx and I believe components for Farfisa ... GEM Jaguar  Below/ Audio sample above ... looks and had a  Voxx transistor sound , my 'Doors' axe in 1967 - 68. 

 

[Legatoboy]

On 6/30/2022 at 5:37 PM, Polychrest said:

Bob Wiseman’s Acetone from his days with Blue Rodeo.  He donated it to a Kids Help Phone charity auction nine years ago.  Don’t know what inspired the paint job.

PolyChrest,  AceTone is a 'Roland' ,,, that was the 1st name of the the company, excuse me I forgot the gentleman's name who owned and started Roland from Acetone...  someone will remember!  AceTone's were very popular in '67 and '68!  I secretly lusted for one for a while... 

[Doerfler]

very good, most excellent "AceTone" sound on the Yamaha Reface YC 

 

Danny Federici used one on some early E Street Band tracks, Bruce still has it in his home studio

[EricBarker]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say a large part of the appeal of the "Hammond Sound" vs the Transistors is the Leslie. Have you ever heard a dry B3? They're okay but suddenly you're in territory that's not too far off from a Farfisa (I mean, they are still quite different, but it gets you quite a bit closer). Leslie's never caught on with the Transistor organ crowd. Transistor's were designed to be small and light and cheap, 3 things a Leslie will never be. Transistors were big with psychedelic garage rock bands from the 60s, kids with not a lot of dough who wanted to play along their friends with knock-off Strats. It was a huge part of the low-end scene. But had Leslie's caught on with transistor organs, I think we'd be singing a slightly different tune today.

[AnotherScott]

20 minutes ago, EricBarker said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say a large part of the appeal of the "Hammond Sound" vs the Transistors is the Leslie. 

Absolutely. Put a transistor organ through a Leslie, it will sound good, even if you're no fan of transistor organs. The organ on Ton Petty's "Don't DO Me Like That" is a Vox played through a Leslie, and it sounds closer to what you'd think of as a Hammond sound than it does to a Vox.

 

 

[Shamanzarek]

I knew guys in the 60s that played Farfisas and Continentals through Leslies. One band in our town was doing a lot of Deep Purple and other Hammond-oriented music with a Farfisa Compact/Leslie. At the time I thought it sounded very good. I saw this band when they opened for Deep Purple. Of course, they didn't do any DP at that show.

 

I used a Leslie 147 with my Vox Super Continental for a time in the early 80s when Hammonds weren't being used as much. It was close enough to cover the declining amount of organ sounds I needed to do but at the time synths were becoming more prevalent so I went with an all polysynth setup until the early 90s.

[DrEsophagus]

I can fart through a Leslie and it sounds good too.

[AUSSIEKEYS]

5 minutes ago, DrEsophagus said:

I can fart through a Leslie and it sounds good too.

 

As comforting as that makes one feel I dont think Leslie was too happy. 

[Doerfler]

In 1976 my first gig rig was a Farfisa VIP 400 and a Leslie 145 with a Leslie Pre Amp. I was 15, gift from my father. Best dad ever. 

[DrEsophagus]

5 minutes ago, AUSSIEKEYS said:

 

As comforting as that makes one feel I dont think Leslie was too happy. 

No especially that wet one in E dorian, fried everything.

[Polychrest]

59 minutes ago, DrEsophagus said:

I can fart through a Leslie and it sounds good too.

Sampled or modelled?

[DrEsophagus]

16 minutes ago, Polychrest said:

Sampled or modelled?

Both! 

 

Except with modelled, I need a bucket of KFC with extra gravy

[El Lobo]

On 7/3/2022 at 3:13 PM, nadroj said:

Problem is, depending on the venue the Nord transistor organs either struggle to cut through, or pierce your ear drums.

Yeah, that. To me, it's depending on the volume of the band. If the band gets too loud, the Farfisa sound on my Nord doesn't cut through. If I crank it up to be heard, it sounds tinnily awful. I like the sound on one tune when my band plays at medium to low volume. 

[stoken6]

7 hours ago, Polychrest said:

8 hours ago, DrEsophagus said:

I can fart through a Leslie and it sounds good too.

Sampled or modelled?

Would not want to be at that sampling session...

 

Cheers, Mike.

[DrEsophagus]

16 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Absolutely. Put a transistor organ through a Leslie, it will sound good, even if you're no fan of transistor organs. The organ on Ton Petty's "Don't DO Me Like That" is a Vox played through a Leslie, and it sounds closer to what you'd think of as a Hammond sound than it does to a Vox.

 

 

Good song and sounds great on that track too

[bill bosco]

15 hours ago, Shamanzarek said:

I knew guys in the 60s that played Farfisas and Continentals through Leslies. One band in our town was doing a lot of Deep Purple and other Hammond-oriented music with a Farfisa Compact/Leslie. At the time I thought it sounded very good. I saw this band when they opened for Deep Purple. Of course, they didn't do any DP at that show.

 

I used a Leslie 147 with my Vox Super Continental for a time in the early 80s when Hammonds weren't being used as much. It was close enough to cover the declining amount of organ sounds I needed to do but at the time synths were becoming more prevalent so I went with an all polysynth setup until the early 90s.

we were all running transister organs through leslies back then . for a brief moment in time a 147 or a 122 could hold its own on stage , then every one got bigger badder amps . by the mid seventies i was miking my 147 to keep up

[skipeb3]

In the '70's I did a few tours with Walter Egan. In '79 my rig was a CP70 (ugh) with my Vox Continental on top (cool) and a Vox Super Continental thru a 147. Way cool.

The Super thru the Leslie was a cool sound. Wish I had some pics of that rig.

[Polychrest]

I owe this thread an on-topic post after having shamefully descended to responding to Dr. E's rumination on amplified flatulence.

 

The first electric keyboard I ever played in a band was a rent-to-buy Hohner Symphonic.  I was 15 or 16, knew nothing about nothing.  It was cheap and made sounds vaguely resembling stuff I'd heard on the radio.  Its only memorable feature was a knee-controlled volume stick.  That it could reproduce something close to the transistor organ sound in "California Sun" helped me pass my first band audition.

 

That clunky old Hohner turned out to be a gateway drug.  I quickly learned to hate its limitations and started jonesing for stuff higher up the keyboard gear tree.  This thread reminded me of it.  Anybody know anything about the history of Hohner organs?  Anybody else have experience with them?  This is what the thing looked like:

 

[analogika]

14 hours ago, stoken6 said:

Would not want to be at that sampling session...

 

Cheers, Mike.

The trick is to find a model who likes beans. 

[Spider76]

Hohner organs were huge. They had full product portfolios of home organs (with wood console, speakers etc) and stage instruments for playing live.

 

That was back in the brief days when transistors organs were the big thing, and manufacturers hoped they would become like acoustic pianos, a self-contained home orchestra of which every family would own one.

[CyberGene]

Just listened to some Hohner demos on YouTube. Well, sounds like any other transistor organ. And looks really good, although the VOX is indeed the best looking electronic keyboard from around that time. (Or ever?)

[lsj]

On 7/5/2022 at 6:29 PM, DrEsophagus said:

I can fart through a Leslie and it sounds good too.

agree totally

 

[AUSSIEKEYS]

On 7/6/2022 at 8:29 AM, DrEsophagus said:

I can fart through a Leslie and it sounds good too.

 

Yes but can you fart through the "eye of a needle"?

[Shamanzarek]

On 7/5/2022 at 6:29 PM, DrEsophagus said:

I can fart through a Leslie and it sounds good too.

You must be Mr. Methane. I saw you on Howard Stern many years ago. Great job on "Smoke on the Water".