Yamaha YC series firmware V1.2 update

[Delaware Dave]

On 3/4/2022 at 9:41 AM, Delaware Dave said:

The leslie improvement is very good.  The Yammy organ/leslie  still does not exceed B3x nor the Mojo. My two cents. 

 

On 3/4/2022 at 10:49 AM, TomKittel said:

 

Is your assessment based on demos or have you compared these three instruments yourself? At the end of the day, I doubt anyone could tell any of the current clonewheels apart in a blind test if played by a capable organ player. There is no such thing as the one and only Hammond sound anyway. All I can say is that I'm having endless fun with the YC61. It has exceeded my expectations. This applies not only to the organ but to the entire versatility of this instrument. And for what it's worth in my arsenal of the last few years it's the first clonewheel that makes me completely forget about the Vent.
JMTC

 

24 minutes ago, kenheeter said:

I just spent some time with Mojo61, B3X and YC61.  In my opinion for purely Hammond/CV/Leslie realism I think B3X is still the best. Second in realism is the Mojo61, third is YC61.

 

Thanks for confirming.

[AnotherScott]

On 3/7/2022 at 3:24 PM, CyberGene said:

Since the YC73 and 88 have slightly rearranged live sets and pages, I would assume they didn't bother to showcase the new rotary on the organs that are in the first page. That is an odd decision by Yamaha but well, it's Yamaha after all

 

Good point, the Live Set settings are specific to each board, that could well explain the difference. Live Set 1 on the 61 is an organ sound, it's Rhodes on the 73, and piano on the 88. (Yes, you can choose to activate other section's sounds in those Live Sets, but they're not enabled by default.)

 

On 3/7/2022 at 3:24 PM, CyberGene said:

BTW, just noticed one other difference. I tried to change the reverb type on the YC and realized it only has send level 😲 No way to change the type or at least time, they probably just hardcoded a "hall" type one with some fixed time. And checking the user manual of CP it has an additional "time" knob.

 

There are additional reverbs with addition control in the 3 effects sections.

 

On 3/7/2022 at 3:24 PM, CyberGene said:

OTOH, I just went through the FM-sounds and some lead sounds are especially nice, the portamento is great.

 

Yes portamento works as it "should" on FM. Samples always need to compromise it one way or another.

 

On 3/6/2022 at 1:03 AM, AnotherScott said:

I finally got to compare them tonight, though not for long, and not on a wide variety of organ sounds. But my preliminary feeling is... the SK Pro wins. I spent some time trying to get a particular SK Pro sound I like out of the YC, I couldn't get it there

 

Update... I got it closer by using BOTH the new Live-Set specific EQ AND the global EQ. Though unlike on the CP, you can't save the settings for the latter into the Live Set, so if you want to use both together, that one has to be handled manually.

[Josh Paxton]

I used the new YC organ in a recording session today. I already liked it a lot, but I was unprepared for how good it sounded when I heard it on the playback. Some bandmates commented on it too. Yamaha has really taken a huge leap forward with this.

[pinkfloydcramer]

6 hours ago, Josh Paxton said:

I used the new YC organ in a recording session today. I already liked it a lot, but I was unprepared for how good it sounded when I heard it on the playback. Some bandmates commented on it too. Yamaha has really taken a huge leap forward with this.

Thanks for confirming

[drohm]

I just purchased a YC-73 over the weekend. I already have a NS3 compact, but wanted a second keyboard with different action to pair with it when I am not hauling the XK5. I also like the Rhodes/Wurli/Clav sounds on the YC. I'm still trying to get used to the organ sound on the YC. I'm still not sure I like it any better than the NS3 and it is not at the level of the XK5, but I do think it is much better than most anything in similar keyboards. I find that aggressive adjustments on the EQ and FX/compression, etc., can really make sounds shine in any context. Also, I really like the Yamaha pianos. 

[rickzjamm]

The EQ & compression make a huge difference on the AP's, man I love this board. 

[Kelly Gibson]

After watching all of the Youtube videos and reading this thread, I bought a YC 73 hoping it would be a good fit for me. I have been using a Yamaha CP4 and a Nord Electro 6 73 recently.

 

YC first impressions:

 

The construction of the YC is excellent, the keyboard is quite playable but not quite as nice the CP4 keyboard.

 

Comparing the YC sounds to the Nord, I found the YC C7 piano fuller and more focused than any piano in the Nord.

 

The YC Rhodes sample “75rd Funky” edged out the Nord Nefertiti Rhodes in my opinion. I have not yet compared the Wurly and Clavinet sounds.

 

The YC synth/strings/pads etc are more refined than the Nord samples, with the advantage of being able to adjust resonance.

The YC also has the new pitch bend and modulation levers.

The Nord scroll list/category search is easier than Yamaha's rocker switch to select sounds.

 

Comparing the Nord organ to the YC organ, the YC has a distinctive tonality when compared to the Nord.

Identical drawbar settings sounded quite different between the two boards. The YC can be adjusted to match the Nord drawbar sound with a little tweaking. With the first 3 drawbars out on the Nord (888), the YC matched the sound with the first 3 drawbars set at 635(ish).

 

The YC chorus and vibrato is more subdtle than the Nord’s.

 

The new Leslie effect in the updated YC is nice, about the same, or slightly better than the Nord.

 

The Nord organ plays better than the YC with the high trigger point keyboard setting.

 

The effects section is an upgrade from the Nord effects, with the ability to adjust reverb per voice/zone.

 

Yamaha has copied many of Nords excellent interface ideas such as the lit rotary encoders, assignable controls, and the general intuitive layout. In doing so, they have made a keyboard that many of us have asked for, a compact package with all of the basic sounds and controls needed for gigging.

[hookie]

1 hour ago, Kelly Gibson said:

After watching all of the Youtube videos and reading this thread, I bought a YC 73 hoping it would be a good fit for me. I have been using a Yamaha CP4 and a Nord Electro 6 73 recently.

 

YC first impressions:

 

The construction of the YC is excellent, the keyboard is quite playable but not quite as nice the CP4 keyboard.

 

Comparing the YC sounds to the Nord, I found the YC C7 piano fuller and more focused than any piano in the Nord.

 

The YC Rhodes sample “75rd Funky” edged out the Nord Nefertiti Rhodes in my opinion. I have not yet compared the Wurly and Clavinet sounds.

 

The YC synth/strings/pads etc are more refined than the Nord samples, with the advantage of being able to adjust resonance.

The YC also has the new pitch bend and modulation levers.

The Nord scroll list/category search is easier than Yamaha's rocker switch to select sounds.

 

Comparing the Nord organ to the YC organ, the YC has a distinctive tonality when compared to the Nord.

Identical drawbar settings sounded quite different between the two boards. The YC can be adjusted to match the Nord drawbar sound with a little tweaking. With the first 3 drawbars out on the Nord (888), the YC matched the sound with the first 3 drawbars set at 635(ish).

 

The YC chorus and vibrato is more subdtle than the Nord’s.

 

The new Leslie effect in the updated YC is nice, about the same, or slightly better than the Nord.

 

The Nord organ plays better than the YC with the high trigger point keyboard setting.

 

The effects section is an upgrade from the Nord effects, with the ability to adjust reverb per voice/zone.

 

Yamaha has copied many of Nords excellent interface ideas such as the lit rotary encoders, assignable controls, and the general intuitive layout. In doing so, they have made a keyboard that many of us have asked for, a compact package with all of the basic sounds and controls needed for gigging.

Nice review!  How would you compare the keybeds for ap and ep?

[Kelly Gibson]

The YC keyboard action feels fairly light to me, better than a Nord Electro HP action, not quite as good as the CP4.  I have enjoyed playing it. 

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, Kelly Gibson said:

The Nord scroll list/category search is easier than Yamaha's rocker switch to select sounds.

 

I agree that selecting the sounds that you want to use as components in a user combination (Program on Nord, Live Set on Yamaha) is not so great with the rocker, Nord has the edge there. But in terms of calling up your user Programs/Live Sets, Yamaha also has its own advantage in sound selection, because there are 8 select buttons instead of 4 (so each "page" of sounds has 8 single-button recallable sounds instead of 4).

[TomKittel]

5 hours ago, Kelly Gibson said:

Comparing the YC sounds to the Nord, I found the YC C7 piano fuller and more focused than any piano in the Nord.

 

The YC Rhodes sample “75rd Funky” edged out the Nord Nefertiti Rhodes in my opinion. 

 

Thanks for confirming.

[drohm]

I should have probably known this before purchasing, but I just learned about the built in audio interface on the YC-73! I connected my laptop via usb to YC-73 and immediately have access to Omnisphere and all my software instruments in addition to the YC sounds. This simplifies a setup and is great! I still prefer the playability/sound of the NS3 for organ, but the YC-73 (bottom) and NS3-compact (top) with an optional iPad or laptop is a nice compact rig indeed. Running it all through 2 DXR-10 monitors.  

[CyberGene]

Yes, the audio interface has been a huge advantage on the Yamaha instruments in the last years. It also means you can record the instrument in a DAW through the USB with zero-noise digital audio instead of having to bother with audio cables, levels, etc.

 

BTW, I am a sucker for Minimoog sound and have various software Minimoog emulations (as well as a Behringer Model D) and I was wondering which one to add to my YC61 through the USB interface and just discovered a pretty cheap iPhone app called "mood" and it's fantastic! It's actually a Minimoog with some nice additions like more flexible modulations, effects, sample-splicing oscillator, etc. and I think it will be a good friend with my YC61. Of course I have the original Model D app by Moog on my iPhone and it's all very nice but the "mood" is a modern reinterpretation that adds some useful stuff.

[KRK]

On 3/1/2022 at 12:51 PM, Doerfler said:

 

thanks for posting my video 😄
I can confirm that the overall organ sound is now (thanks to the new rotary simulation) really improved 👍

 

but... the main issue (for who is used to a real hammond - or to any other clonewheeel - ) has not been solved.
key trigger! sound comes out depressing a key for (more or less) half way (sound should come out just at a very first touch).
so if you use it just for simple long chords/accompaniment it's ok, with a great sound.
if you are used to hammond percussive techniques, "ghost notes", etc. this issue could be really annoying...

[pinkfloydcramer]

On 3/9/2022 at 10:03 PM, Kelly Gibson said:

The YC keyboard action feels fairly light to me, better than a Nord Electro HP action, not quite as good as the CP4.  I have enjoyed playing it. 

 

After playing the YC88 a few weeks, the BHS action feels very light indeed, to me. I have the CP73 and have no problems using it to control my HX3 organ module. I can do the machine gun thing (not that I want to very often) and glisses are surprisingly easy.    

 

I think that 1st impressions of keyboard actions can be misleading. I loved the 1st feel of the Nord Electro 2 but it didn't take long before the pushback became intolerable and I returned it in favor of the rack version. 1st encounter with the BHS was underwhelming, but it didn't take long to start really liking it. I was decidedly unimpressed with the YC61 action, it seemed way too similar to that of the MODX7. That perception probably would have changed also, based on comments from owners.

[TomKittel]

1 hour ago, KRK said:

thanks for posting my video 😄
I can confirm that the overall organ sound is now (thanks to the new rotary simulation) really improved 👍

 

but... the main issue (for who is used to a real hammond - or to any other clonewheeel - ) has not been solved.
key trigger! sound comes out depressing a key for (more or less) half way (sound should come out just at a very first touch).
so if you use it just for simple long chords/accompaniment it's ok, with a great sound.
if you are used to hammond percussive techniques, "ghost notes", etc. this issue could be really annoying...

 

I wouldn’t even have noticed any key trigger issue if I hadn’t read this here. I really like the YC61 keybed. For my needs it’s one of the better allrounder keybeds I owned. I am admittedly not the most advanced organ player. But smears and other organ techniques I am using work pretty well, for example. In comparison my NS3C keybed feels stiffer and I have no idea if it has a high or low trigger point. Everyone has a different taste though. So try before you buy.

[AnotherScott]

15 minutes ago, pinkfloydcramer said:

I was decidedly unimpressed with the YC61 action, it seemed way too similar to that of the MODX7. That perception probably would have changed also, based on comments from owners.

 

What seemed really different to me between those actions is that the MODX feels consistently light from the top of the travel to the bottom, whereas the YC61 offers a bit more initial resistance, which disappears further down in the travel. 

 

I think this is most significant for piano. When you're reaching for a note/chord that is some distance away, on a typical non-hammer board, it's too easy to accidentally hit the wrong note on the way to the right one (which can sound cool for organ, but sounds awful for piano). Nord (for example) tries to ameliorate this problem by making the keys more resistant to being pushed down (by using a high tension spring), but that also means the keys push back at you in an unnatural and possibly fatiguing way. The YC61 has a bit more resistance at the top which should help you avoid those bum notes when playing piano, but once you strike the key, you go past the point of greatest resistance, and the keys don't push back at you.

[drawback]

17 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

What seemed really different to me between those actions is that the MODX feels consistently light from the top of the travel to the bottom, whereas the YC61 offers a bit more initial resistance, which disappears further down in the travel. 

 

I think this is most significant for piano. When you're reaching for a note/chord that is some distance away, on a typical non-hammer board, it's too easy to accidentally hit the wrong note on the way to the right one (which can sound cool for organ, but sounds awful for piano). Nord (for example) tries to ameliorate this problem by making the keys more resistant to being pushed down (by using a high tension spring), but that also means the keys push back at you in an unnatural and possibly fatiguing way. The YC61 has a bit more resistance at the top which should help you avoid those bum notes when playing piano, but once you strike the key, you go past the point of greatest resistance, and the keys don't push back at you.

 

I thought this action for a keyboard at this price (ie, not entry-level) was one of the most unnatural for both piano and organ I've ever put my hands on. I could be very wrong, but I have a feeling Yamaha will deliver a 61(insert prefix here) with this addressed. They've already done it on the software side.

[Josh Paxton]

7 hours ago, KRK said:

the main issue (for who is used to a real hammond - or to any other clonewheeel - ) has not been solved.
key trigger! sound comes out depressing a key for (more or less) half way (sound should come out just at a very first touch).
so if you use it just for simple long chords/accompaniment it's ok, with a great sound.
if you are used to hammond percussive techniques, "ghost notes", etc. this issue could be really annoying...

 

My playing lineage: piano > synth > assorted Hammond clones > real Hammond

 

Number of times I have ever noticed the YC61 trigger point or felt it detracted from my playing, including percussive techniques and ghost notes: 0.

 

As always, YMMV.

[SonicKeysII]

I have the YC61 and have fooled around with it in my basement for a while.  Never gigged with it in part due to Covid slowing down a lot of live music gigs.  When I played out a couple of times last year, I resorted to my Roland VR-09 for my top board.  Prior to the Leslie update, i thought the Roland board was better for rock stuff and also more versatile for top board sounds.  Its Leslie was clearly better prior to the 1.20 update.  

 

I bought the YC61 to use as a single board on a gig and in my view it doesn't quite make it because of the action when playing acoustic piano and electric piano patches.  It doesn't have great action for playing piano at all.  It is not as bad as a springy Nord Electro but it doesn't cut it from my point of view. (The piano like action on the upgraded Nord Electro is not my cup of tea either).   The YC61 is more of a top board for organ, brass and synth patches to be used with an 88 key weighted action bottom board.  

 

As for organ, i practice with a band which has a real Hammond on site and I just love it.  Going from that to the YC or the Roland is a big letdown.  As for action, I sort of like the Roland better for organ than the YC which is a little disappointing.  The YC action is nothing like the action on a Hammond.  Not even close.  

 

When I am playing rock piano, I like a good weighted action.  As for me, i dig the action on the Casio PX-5S and PX-560.  Not too heavy and good bounce.  They are fun to play and sound pretty good. And the boards fit in the back of the SUV without folding down the seat.  

 

I bought a Korg Grandstage 73 and found the action terrible for heavy boogie piano playing.  Too fatiguing.  I would practice with a Texas boogie type band where i was really banging and i would come home and need to go back to the Casio.  With that band, the Casio was a blast.  The Casio is a great board for rock n' roll piano from my perspective.

 

The issue for me is whether I sell my YC61 and upgrade to a YC73.  At this point, I am waiting until Summer NAMM and see what new boards are announced.  I have enough toys in my basement that it won't really matter if I do nothing.  i am not playing out that much these days anyway.  I could always suck it up and lug around a YC88.  Ugh.  I used to lug around a Yamaha S-90 in a hard shell case to gigs and said never again.  

 

The bottom line is that it may not be possible to do a one trick pony board even in the year 2022.  There has to be compromise somewhere and everyone has a different point of view over where they are willing to compromise.  Since i play a lot of piano, the action is really important to me.  Casio has perfected the small footprint 26 lb weighted action board.  Too bad Casio's organ sounds are for the most part awful.  Casio needs to merge with Hammond and Yamaha should stick to great sounding synths and digital stage pianos.      

[AnotherScott]

42 minutes ago, SonicKeysII said:

I bought the YC61 to use as a single board on a gig and in my view it doesn't quite make it because of the action when playing acoustic piano and electric piano patches.  It doesn't have great action for playing piano at all.  It is not as bad as a springy Nord Electro but it doesn't cut it from my point of view.

...

Since i play a lot of piano, the action is really important to me. 

It's definitely all relative. I'd say YC61 is an above average action for piano, but only when compared to other non-hammer actions. So for example, despite your disappointment, you and I agree it's better than Electro SW, which is already better than a lot of others. When I played the YC61, I was okay with its piano feel (again, for a non-hammer board), but there were issues with the velocity response that I'm pretty confident would be well addressed with the velocity tweaks available in the 1.2 update. There are some other non-hammer boards that I think are as good or better, but I'd still rank the YC61 as above average, as I said. Tempered expectations. ;-)

 

42 minutes ago, SonicKeysII said:

As for action, I sort of like the Roland better for organ than the YC which is a little disappointing. 

I can understand that. It's been a while, but I didn't mind the VR09 action for organ at all, and its trigger points (both directions) are probably better than on the YC61. OTOH, the VR09 is also an example of a board that is not nearly as good as the YC for piano.

 

42 minutes ago, SonicKeysII said:

The bottom line is that it may not be possible to do a one trick pony board even in the year 2022.  There has to be compromise somewhere 

I think that's always going to be the case IF you're fussy about your piano-playing action AND your organ-playing action. You need to be able to compromise on at least one of those if you're going to try to do it all from one board, the demands of the action for ideal piano and organ techniques are just too different. If I must play piano from a non-hammer action, I'm okay with the Vox Continental and some of the Kurzweils, for example (and maybe the YC61, too), but don't expect to like it as much as I like playing on even the "modest" hammer actions of the Casios you mentioned, or the YC73, or my old Korg SV1 (which, pre-Japanese RH3, I suspect feels a bit lighter than the Grandstage or later SV1/SV2), or even the TP100 in my Dexibell P3 (one of the better TP100 implementations I've played). If I must play organ from a hammer action, give me something with a Fatar TP-40L, or the Kawai MP7 (I haven't really played the MP7SE), or yes, the YC73. It's decently usable, but I'm not going to expect it to feel as satisfying as the Vox Continental or even the VR09, or a whole bunch of other boards.

 

And welcome, new poster!

[Delaware Dave]

15 hours ago, SonicKeysII said:

The bottom line is that it may not be possible to do a one trick pony board even in the year 2022.  

 

Well, yes and no.  There are keyboards that vary with strengths and weaknesses.  I think that if Kurzweil would put out a top notch organ/leslie combination they would be extremely close, as the PC4 (as an example) that keyboard other than organ/leslie does everything well, and frankly the leslie I heard on K2700, which is supposed to be in the PC4 as well (although I haven't verified that), is not too bad although not great.  Nord doesn't do anything (in my view) great, but all around does everything pretty well.  The one variable that no one can agree on is keybed.  What keybed is the best for a one-trick pony.  Many will say Roland in the VR700/730 has a great keybed for all around playing.  Even if we agreed that Roland's was it is still a compromise, not great for piano, not great for organ, not great for EP, not great for synth, but not too bad either.  But still, it's a compromise.  For those who can stand compromises and can get along with a keybed in a keyboard that does everything from the sound perspective pretty well, then you might have a one trick pony.  The problem seems to be that many people don't like to be compromised on the keybed, some prefer weighted vs. synth, some prefer synth vs. weighted, and all things in between.  The one that kind of went down the right path conceptually was the Orla Jamkey, organ weighted on the top, hammer action on the bottom.  The jamkey however was a controller, so no internal sounds, it also was close to 60 pounds and was more expensive than most keyboards ($2500?).  So they probably sold a couple of dozen before they disappeared.  I've trained myself to 'like' a SW keybed like the TP08 and have been playing on one for over a decade. I'm at a point where I don't mind it and recognize it is a compromise and move on.  But my guess would be that keybed is the stickler that creates an issue with one-trick ponies.  My two cents.  Decent topic to discuss, don't want to train wreck this topic which should be limited to the YC's upgrade.  This should be its own topic.

[allan_evett]

1 hour ago, Delaware Dave said:

11 hours ago, SonicKeysII said:

The bottom line is that it may not be possible to do a one trick pony board even in the year 2022.  

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Delaware Dave said:

This should be its own topic.

 

I agree. Bet that thread would light up quickly. I've gigged a couple boards as 'one trick ponies'. A Kurz PC3, 2009 - 2013, worked well. Right now I play a Nord Stage 3, 76 for that purpose. I agree with your assessment on that, Dave. The Stage synth engine connects with me, though I still prefer Hammond for organ and Yamaha for piano.  

 

Back on topic:  Still digging the version 1.2 update for my YC-88.  I did buy it primarily as a stage piano, so using the weighted action for occasional organ/synth comping is okay. Intrigued by the new FM organ section choices; have had fun using the first three F Organ Types so far. Also looking forward to exploring the new FX/EQ choices.

[AnotherScott]

16 hours ago, Delaware Dave said:

The one variable that no one can agree on is keybed.  What keybed is the best for a one-trick pony.  Many will say Roland in the VR700/730 has a great keybed for all around playing.  Even if we agreed that Roland's was it is still a compromise, not great for piano, not great for organ, not great for EP, not great for synth, but not too bad either.  But still, it's a compromise.  

The VR730 is similar if not identical to what Nord uses in their SW Electro and Stage models. However, the VR700 action was entirely different. Yes, it is a compromise for piano compared to a hammer action board (though about as good as any non-hammer board could be for piano). But it is not a compromise as a waterfall/semi-weighted... I'd say it's one of the very best organ actions you'll find. (For synth, it's probably compromised only by the lack of aftertouch, which matters enormously to some people, and not at all to others.)

 

16 hours ago, Delaware Dave said:

Decent topic to discuss, don't want to train wreck this topic which should be limited to the YC's upgrade.  This should be its own topic.

Might be time to revisit some old threads in the light of more recent releases... 

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/170268-if-you-must-gig-with-just-one-board/

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/177323-swiss-army-knife-giggers-synths-2020/

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/175202-7376-key-ultimate-gig-board/

 

Three takes on the topic, with some different fundamental criteria.

[Delaware Dave]

.............

[miden]

Sorry to go a little OT, but can any YC owners confirm how many bass sounds these have?

[funkyhammond]

20 hours ago, Josh Paxton said:

Number of times I have ever noticed the YC61 trigger point or felt it detracted from my playing, including percussive techniques and ghost notes: 0.

 

As always, YMMV.

 

Although I didn't like the feel of the YC61 keybed, I do mostly agree with this. The action is light enough to pull off most percussive organ techniques even with the low trigger. The springs are not stiff like the Nords. I think a high trigger would actually wind up being more useful for the YC 73/88 hammer-action versions when someone wants a single-board solution for pianos and some organ.

[drawback]

2 hours ago, miden said:

Sorry to go a little OT, but can any YC owners confirm how many bass sounds these have?

 

If you're asking about bass instruments for splits, there are the usual five. There are 10 synth bass sounds as well.

[miden]

5 hours ago, drawback said:

 

If you're asking about bass instruments for splits, there are the usual five. There are 10 synth bass sounds as well.

 

 

Cool, thanks Rod

[Docbop]