Yamaha YC series firmware V1.2 update

[Outkaster]

I think this keyboard can stand on it's own two feet now.  There was never a question for me.

[AnotherScott]

2 minutes ago, octa said:

I've been wondering if there's a way to assign USB audio, like an iOS synth, to external keys.

 

Hmmm, I don't think so. There are 4 external MIDI zones you can assign to internal keys, but the only settings I saw for assigning sounds to external keys were your choice of any combination of the three internal sections (Organ, Keys A, Keys B). And even that is done by an internal sound assignment, not by MIDI channelization (i.e all 3 sounds are still on the same MIDI channel, regardless of whether you're playing them from the internal keys or external keys). I'm not sure I've ever seen a board capable of assigning an external sound to external keys, you're getting into some advanced MIDI controller stuff there, I think. Maybe a Kurzweil, if anything. You're probably better off just sending MIDI from the external keyboard to the external sound source, maybe using CME bluetooth stuff if you're trying to not add more wires.

[Al Coda]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

 

Each of the three sections (organ, keys a, keys b) can be set to be played from internal keys, external keys, or both. Each user preset (Live Set) can be set however you want.

 

including ALL of the, in general, available MIDI CCs ?

 

☺️

 

A.C.

[AnotherScott]

8 minutes ago, Al Coda said:

including ALL of the, in general, available MIDI CCs ?

 

I don't understand what you're asking. Can you give an example of what you want it to do?

[TomKittel]

My YC61 arrived this weekend. I am impressed. The B3 sounds are 'hammondish' in every way. At first glance I like them better than those of my NS Compact. In comparison the NS3 organ/leslie sounds are washed out and less detailed somehow. The YC61 percussion 'klonk' and keyclick sound better to my ears. The same goes for C3 Chorus on the YC61. Not to mention the new Leslie sim, which does not leave me a desire for a Vent or such.   
 

Also, and this is important to me, the YC61 Waterfall keybed allows you to play the AP and EP sounds expressively. I can't say that about my Nord Stage Compact keybed. I hate playing AP on the NS Compact. The pianos always sound like crap on the NSC, no matter which of the Nord Piano samples I use. The keys to sound connection never seems right with the NS compact's AP sounds. I don't know how to put this any better. I remember an FOH guy asking me what's wrong with my piano sounds at a gig last summer.
 

Anyway, Yamaha APs somehow seem to have a special quality in comparison. Some people seem to appreciate that and some don't. Anyway, they are really fun to play on the YC61. It's certainly not the same experience as on a good weighted hammer keyboard, but still very usable if you can get by with 61 keys. Same goes for EP sounds. The new touch settings are very useful in this regard.
 

I briefly tried out the iPad integration through Midi and Audio I/0 with a single USB cable. That was really fun! Simply plug in a USB cable plus camera connection kit and everything works 1a without any cables hassle. Any iPad/iPhone instrument can be used like an internal YC61 sound source. Brilliant! Long story cut short, the YC61 is a keeper. Hope my assessment doesn't sound like a fanboy report. But it could even be that I will sell my NS compact for it. We'll see.

[Al Coda]

10 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

I don't understand what you're asking. Can you give an example of what you want it to do?

 

When trigger YC patches externally, are these patches fully controlable via MIDI too ?

Which parameters are MIDI controlable ?

This is why I´m  interested in the MIDI implementation.

Is it published somewhere and well documented?

 

I like Yamaha gear, but my experience from the past is they often introduced poor MIDI implementation,- at least compared to others like p.ex. Kurzweil.

 

Imagine buying the 88 or 73 keys version and playing the organ from ext. divingboard or waterfall action,- are drawbars, perc., C/V, OD, rotary speed and stop MIDI controlable ?

 

☺️

 

A.C.

[Delaware Dave]

Can you the organ be split, meaning:

 

1) can you split the keyboard at a split point and play the upper manual organ above the split point and a separate lower manual with drawbar control below the split point?

2) can you play the lower manual organ from a 2nd keyboard while the YC is playing the upper manual?

[rickzjamm]

Used the YC88 Saturday night rocking the house & Sunday morning in full worship... this beast is a sinner & saint all rolled into one!!!

[dbhoosier]

6 hours ago, TomKittel said:

My YC61 arrived this weekend. I am impressed. The B3 sounds are 'hammondish' in every way. At first glance I like them better than those of my NS Compact. In comparison the NS3 organ/leslie sounds are washed out and less detailed somehow. The YC61 percussion 'klonk' and keyclick sound better to my ears. The same goes for C3 Chorus on the YC61. Not to mention the new Leslie sim, which does not leave me a desire for a Vent or such.   
 

Also, and this is important to me, the YC61 Waterfall keybed allows you to play the AP and EP sounds expressively. I can't say that about my Nord Stage Compact keybed. I hate playing AP on the NS Compact. The pianos always sound like crap on the NSC, no matter which of the Nord Piano samples I use. The keys to sound connection never seems right with the NS compact's AP sounds. I don't know how to put this any better. I remember an FOH guy asking me what's wrong with my piano sounds at a gig last summer.
 

Anyway, Yamaha APs somehow seem to have a special quality in comparison. Some people seem to appreciate that and some don't. Anyway, they are really fun to play on the YC61. It's certainly not the same experience as on a good weighted hammer keyboard, but still very usable if you can get by with 61 keys. Same goes for EP sounds. The new touch settings are very useful in this regard.
 

I briefly tried out the iPad integration through Midi and Audio I/0 with a single USB cable. That was really fun! Simply plug in a USB cable plus camera connection kit and everything works 1a without any cables hassle. Any iPad/iPhone instrument can be used like an internal YC61 sound source. Brilliant! Long story cut short, the YC61 is a keeper. Hope my assessment doesn't sound like a fanboy report. But it could even be that I will sell my NS compact for it. We'll see.

I agree that the Yamaha EPs and EPs sound better than the Nords (my opinion solely), but I still think the Nord sounds are very good and far from crap (maybe your FOH person messed with the EQ on your Nord mixer channel(s) - I've had that happen before - they often like to pull down the lows and highs, which kills the AP and EP sounds).  I do think the YC organ now is much improved but still different from the Nord.  I find the YC organ to have a lot more crunch to it than the Nord.  For a really "clean" B3, the Nord is still great; however, I tend to use crunchier organ sounds and would generally now give the nod to the YC.  I love using aftertouch on my NS3C for controlling the rotor speed, which is a fantastic feature.  And clearly the ability to use the full synth module, Nord Sound Library, and loading your own samples makes the NS3C worth keeping for me as well.  You can always use the NS3C as a midi controller for the organ on the YC if desired.  I still think the Nord Clav sounds are better than the YC.  Regardless, I feel so blessed to have both of these boards to utilize compared to what I started out with in the early 90's!

[AnotherScott]

7 hours ago, TomKittel said:

the new Leslie sim, which does not leave me a desire for a Vent or such.   

 

Along those lines,  just as impressive as the Vent's rotary effect has always been its overdrive... so many boards are weak on any kind of tube-like overdrive sound, you so often get more of the transistor-fizzy kind of thing instead. The overdrive on the YC is quite good.

  

6 hours ago, Al Coda said:

Which parameters are MIDI controlable ?

This is why I´m  interested in the MIDI implementation.

Is it published somewhere and well documented?

 

Yes, it's all well documented, in the main owner's manual.

 

6 hours ago, Al Coda said:

Imagine buying the 88 or 73 keys version and playing the organ from ext. divingboard or waterfall action,- are drawbars, perc., C/V, OD, rotary speed and stop MIDI controlable ?

 

Based on the manual (since I haven't done any of this yet myself), yes to CC control of drawbars, OD (both the organ preamp overdrive and the Leslie amp overdrive), rotary speed and stop. Unfortunately, percussion and C/V are sysex. But for the particular usage you're describing, I don't see it as an issue. I mean, if you've got your two boards stacked, other than drawbars (where it could be nice to have the two sets for instant access to the settings for each manual), honestly, I don't see much need for these CC controls in this scenario. You're describing exactly what I intend to do, put the YC73 under a Kurzweil PC4-7. I'll have my dual sets of "drawbars" but I have no need to map overdrive controls or perc or C/V to the Kurz, because all those controls are all readily at hand on the panel of the YC73. I don't really need them again on the Kurz.

 

 

2 hours ago, Delaware Dave said:

Can you the organ be split, meaning:

 

1) can you split the keyboard at a split point and play the upper manual organ above the split point and a separate lower manual with drawbar control below the split point?

2) can you play the lower manual organ from a 2nd keyboard while the YC is playing the upper manual?

 

Yes.

 

24 minutes ago, dbhoosier said:

I agree that the Yamaha EPs and EPs sound better than the Nords (my opinion solely), but I still think the Nord sounds are very good and far from crap (maybe your FOH person messed with the EQ on your Nord mixer channel(s) - I've had that happen before 

 

Or it could have been a stereo/mono thing. 

 

24 minutes ago, dbhoosier said:

I still think the Nord Clav sounds are better than the YC.  

 

And again, at least the Nord has all 4 pickup positions (and most of the EQ options). So clav is still a bit of a YC and CP weakness. You can usually get what you need out of it, but I was surprised when the CP73/88 came out, that a high-end stage piano wouldn't at least have all 4 basic clav sounds.

 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned... I had forgotten how nice it is to hit a power switch and have the board ready to play virtually instantly. Now that's nostalgia!

 

 

[kaptainkeys]

28 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

One thing that hasn't been mentioned... I had forgotten how nice it is to hit a power switch and have the board ready to play virtually instantly. Now that's nostalgia!

I agree, but what about no power switch?  There could be no power and my piano is always ready to play lol

[AnotherScott]

4 minutes ago, GotKeys said:

I agree, but what about no power switch?  There could be no power and my piano is always ready to play lol

 

OTOH, I think the YC starts up faster than my real Hammond organ did!

[kaptainkeys]

6 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

OTOH, I think the YC starts up faster than my real Hammond organ did!

That is too funny

[TomKittel]

I played around a bit with the Soundmondo app today. There are many good presets to be found and it's a great uncomplicated way of preset management by iPhone. Pure fun! 

[stoken6]

22 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

I'm not sure I've ever seen a board capable of assigning an external sound to external keys, you're getting into some advanced MIDI controller stuff there, I think. Maybe a Kurzweil, if anything. 

Nord Stage can send Dual Keyboard to its Extern section. Is that the same thing? (Obviously no USB audio on the Nord).

 

Cheers, Mike 

[AnotherScott]

16 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

Nord Stage can send Dual Keyboard to its Extern section. Is that the same thing? 

 

Ooh, good catch!

 

[rogs]

It seems like most folk agree that the new 'Studio' rotary setting is a real game changer here  - I mean it is a lot better! 🙂

 

Apart from losing the dreadful 'squirly' fast speed,  Yamaha have also dramatically improved the stereo spread of the effect.

 

They also seem to have change the standard EQ setting for the RtrA amplifier (less 'peaky' on some hi mid notes?).

I've been trying out the new EQ settings added to this firmware, but haven't found anything really exciting yet.

 

What can make quite a dramatic change to some of the organ sounds is an effect that hasn't so far - AFAIK - attracted much attention.

Effect no. 35 - 'Harmonic Enhancer'.  Not really what it was intended for I suspect, but some settings of the two controls can make a really big difference to the sound.

Difficult to describe exactly what the depth and rate controls actually do in this instance -- and it can make a big difference what drawbar settings you've selected to start with - but some settings will produce some dramatic changes!

Whether you think the changes are useful or not?...... It can certainly add some real 'bite' to some combinations...

[AnotherScott]

3 hours ago, rogs said:

Apart from losing the dreadful 'squirly' fast speed,  Yamaha have also dramatically improved the stereo spread of the effect.

 

They also made the spinning effect on the lower rotor more audible. The equivalent of a closer mic distance, I think.

 

3 hours ago, rogs said:

I've been trying out the new EQ settings added to this firmware, but haven't found anything really exciting yet.

 

While definitely very useful, I wouldn't expect much in the way of "exciting" out of an EQ. ;-) E1 is simply bass and treble controls (shelving); E2 and E3 are both single band parametric EQs (E2 is narrow Q, E3 is wide Q). Keep in mind that, on a parametric EQ, one of the controls only alters the center frequency. That will have no audible effect unless your other control is set to actually raise or lower the frequency you've selected (by default, it should do neither). They are demonstrated at about 15:30 in the video here... 

 

[Doerfler]

 

[allan_evett]

22 hours ago, dbhoosier said:

Regardless, I feel so blessed to have both of these boards to utilize compared to what I started out with in the early 90's!

With you on that point!  Last summer, I gigged both as my dual keys rig. And as many have stated in this thread, their strengths/weaknesses complement well. 

Very beneficial update; I'm digging the new rotary speaker effect.

 

[AnotherScott]

Something I just discovered...

 

Based on the manual, the drawbars and rotary controls have MIDI CCs, the percussion and C/V are sysex. But running a MIDI monitor, it looks like while the drawbars and rotary controls indeed send MIDI CC, the percussion and C/V send nothing. I suppose they must receive the sysex listed in the manual, but they aren't sending anything at all. This could be a factor if you want to record those manipulations into a DAW as you perform, or if you want to use those buttons to control parameters in an external sound, i.e. in a software organ like B-3X (where even sysex would have been better than nothing, since with some effort, those can be remapped as well).

[kenheeter]

I simply mapped other controls that do send CCs for percussion and CV.  Worked fine with B3X.

[AnotherScott]

22 minutes ago, kenheeter said:

I simply mapped other controls that do send CCs for percussion and CV.  Worked fine with B3X.

 

Since using B3X means you're also using the B3X rotary, for me, that frees up two CC buttons for those purpose (the slow/fast and stop buttons), because I don't use stop, and I would want a footswitch to toggle the speed. Though I don't know about losing the LED indicator that tells me what the current speed setting is.

 

Which controls did you use? I'm sure it's workable, but it's a shame that you can't use the "right" buttons, which are well-placed and properly labeled for their functions, and have LEDs to indicate their status.

 

Practically speaking, I don't actually change the particular percussion and CV settings much during performance anyway. So for me I guess it's more a conceptual irritation than a practical one. ;-)

[kenheeter]

I sold my YC61 a while back and I can't remember specifically which buttons I used.  I just ordered another one but I'm not planning to use it with B3X because they fixed the rotary. 

[AnotherScott]

10 minutes ago, kenheeter said:

I just ordered another one but I'm not planning to use it with B3X because they fixed the rotary. 

 

Uh huh. Knowing the update was designed to address the velocity and rotary issues (my two biggest complaints), I ordered another one too, figuring that, even if the organ were still not to my satisfaction (or if it were good enough for sometimes but not always), I also liked its potential for use with B3X with the LED strips... but based on what I've heard so far, I think I'll be perfectly happy with the built-in organ/rotary.

[nadroj]

If anyone's able to tell me if the YC has a hidden MIDI THRU function like the MODX does while using both USB and MIDI IN sockets, that would be great.

 

Example: a YC61 is connected to a laptop based VST, for example, Ravenscroft, via the USB MIDI output. It also has an external weighted controller connected to its MIDI IN port. Can you control the VST using the external weighted controller plugged into the YC? Might have to tweak with the settings to find out.

 

I discovered this by accident on the MODX; I had the USB port selected as active in the menu, but the MIDI DIN port was obviously still being used.

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, nadroj said:

If anyone's able to tell me if the YC has a hidden MIDI THRU function like the MODX does while using both USB and MIDI IN sockets, that would be great.

 

From an article on the yamahasynth site:

 

Quote

BOTH USB and MIDI are active when they are set to ON and both default to ON.

Cool tip, you can use the YC as a multi-port MIDI interface. When the MIDI Port is set to OFF, you can use USB port 2 to send and receive MIDI to the 5-pin DIN jacks. This allows you to use the YC MIDI terminal as a second set of MIDI ports for external gear.

 

[Josh Paxton]

Did my first post-update gig with the 61 yesterday, using it exclusively for organ. The difference is huge. Not only is the rotary effect far more realistic, but the overall tone of the new Leslie is noticeably thicker and ballsier. I had a ball playing it, and two of the other guys on the gig came up afterward to ask me what board I was using because it sounded so good.

 

For me, the update took it from "good enough for a rock gig" to "as much fun to play as any clone I've ever played." I've always really liked the basic tone of the organ, and now the Leslie is fully up to par. If anyone is looking for a deal on a Mojo 61, check the classified section soon.

[kenheeter]

Just received my YC661 today and did the update. The new rotary sim is excellent! I don't even feel the need to tweak it (yet!). Well done Yamaha. This might put my Mojo61 in jeopardy.....

 

[ElmerJFudd]

On 3/1/2022 at 6:51 AM, Doerfler said:

 

Much, much better.   Makes you want to play the organ section!  ha ha