Yamaha YC61 Announced

[Fleer]

73 keys

[SoWhatChord]

Some people in this thread have expressed reservations about how the YC61 collapses to mono, so here's a bit of Brahms played in mono via L/mono, L only (by also inserting a dummy adapter into the R jack), and R only. Not in that order.

 

The three recordings use the same MIDI file (also recorded on the YC61), so they are identical note for note. The sound is CFX piano with damper resonance and reverb. I have attempted to normalize the volume, but the recordings still don't quite sound equally loud, so try to ignore pure volume differences.

 

You can try to guess the order of the recordings. Here's the answer:

R only, L only, L/mono. L/mono sounds the best to me, just as expected.

 

 

Link to recording: https://vocaroo.com/1nATtSfoNXDz Unfortunately I couldn't include it as attachment because of some permission error. Hosting the file on Vocaroo may have degraded the recording, but it shouldn't affect any phasing issues.

[woodshedjones]

Hello!

 

https://www-musicradar-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.musicradar.com/amp/news/yamaha-goes-big-while-youre-stuck-at-home-with-the-yc73-and-yc88-gig-ready-stage-keyboards?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.musicradar.com%2Fnews%2Fyamaha-goes-big-while-youre-stuck-at-home-with-the-yc73-and-yc88-gig-ready-stage-keyboards

[dickiefunk]

Yamaha have announced a new firmware 1.1 update for the YC series. The new features include :-

 

YC OS v1.1

 

OVERALL

YC OS v1.1 enhances your YC experience with new sounds, workflow enhancements and more. Install OS v1.1 today and let us know here if you have an idea for a new sound or feature for our next update.

 

SOUND

[ NASHVILLE C3 ]

The Nashville C3 is a small but character-rich grand piano engineered in conjunction with our Sound Design and Artist Relations teams. The piano was recorded in our Yamaha Entertainment Group Studios and processed with real analog tape for a distinctive vibe and character.

 

[ YAMAHA CF3 ]

The classic CF3 sound from the Yamaha CP300 stage piano is well-known among professional musicians. A great fit for both pop and gospel music, players will find that the CF3 offers the powerful sound they"re looking for.

 

[ 73 RD STUDIO ]

This 1973 studio tine electric piano features smooth, warm tones, perfect for laying down chord beds in ballads, jazz and R&B.

 

[ 74 RD STAGE ]

Another option when looking for something more aggressive, this bright electric stage piano works well for soloing or more syncopated rhythm parts.

 

DESIGN

 

ã»Added a new feature called 'P.Mod initial.' This features stores and recalls the initial Pitch Modulation amount for a LIVE SET.

 

ã»Moved P.Mod Depth and Speed parameters from 'Controller' to 'Sound' Settings.

 

ã»Improved P.Mod speed characteristics.

 

ã»Press ENTER while in SETTINGS returns to the previous page instead of the top of the page.

 

NEW LIVE SET

 

YC OS v1.1 adds eight new Live Set Sounds featuring the Nashville C3, Yamaha CF3, 73 Rd Studio and 74 Rd Stage.

 

Sadly there"s no update for the rotary sim, extra Clavinet pickups, organ key trigger point or sympathetic string resonance for the acoustic piano sounds.

 

The new Hammond SK-Pro is looking really promising at the moment with a much better rotary sim. Also, some of the additional voices on the SK-Pro are sounding as good or possibly even better than the YC!? However one strength the YC does have is it includes a built in audio interface so I could use IK"s B3X from my iPad and give me an arguably better Hammond and rotary sound than the SK-Pro!?

[ChazKeys]

The same pianos and eps as Yamaha provided in the recent CP73//88 update. Apart form the organ engine the YC73/88 and CP73/88 are so similar.

[Hobo]

A quick question - Can you split, LH bass sample, and layer organ AND piano on the RH? So THREE sounds playing at once. If so, could I also layer piano and organ across the whole board, and have an external midi controller playing a bass sound from the YC ?

 

If yes I'm probably going to bite....

[kenheeter]

I believe the answer is yes.

[AnotherScott]

Can you split, LH bass sample, and layer organ AND piano on the RH? So THREE sounds playing at once.

 

Yes, YC61 has 3 sections that can all play at once... Organ, Keys A, and Keys B.

 

Any non-organ sound can be selected for either Keys A or Keys B.

 

Any of the three sounds can be assigned to play only to the left of the split point, only to the right of the split point, or across the full keybboard.

 

(Separately, there are also four zones that can be assigned to external MIDI devices, each with their own defined key ranges.)

[SoWhatChord]

A quick question - Can you split, LH bass sample, and layer organ AND piano on the RH? So THREE sounds playing at once. If so, could I also layer piano and organ across the whole board, and have an external midi controller playing a bass sound from the YC ?

 

Yes. For internal sounds, there's only one split point, but each of the three sound sections can use it independently in different ways.

 

So for your first example:

 

Organ: R

Keys A (piano): R

Keys B (bass): L

 

Your second example doesn't need the split point, instead it would use the External Keyboard setting, which is also specified separately for each section:

 

Organ: External Keyboard = Off

Keys A (piano): External Keyboard = Off

Keys B (bass): External Keyboard = ExtOnly

 

(the four zones are something different - they are for using the YC61 keyboard to control external devices, not the other way around.)

[Hobo]

That's great news. I use that set up currently, via MainStage and a controller, but am temped back to hardware by this keyboard. I also don't get the bashing the rotary is getting, it sounds like the best of all the clones I have heard to my ears, but each to their own I guess!

 

I only wish the 73 version was a waterfall too but you can't win them all.

 

Been on MainStage since launch over 13 years ago, from VB3 to currently Blue3 and various soft pianos etc, but to my ears this board, especially with the new Nashville piano is right up my street, and only 7kg, what's not to like.

[Al Quinn]

I'm so close to buying a YC61. I love almost everything about it! Just need organ high-trigger and a gig to test it on before pulling the trigger (and then sell my Electro 4D).

 

I don't love the YC61 Hammond but if I don't warm up to it I'm OK with using the HX3 Expander Module or B-3X on the iPad to compensate since I already own both. I hope Yamaha implements organ high-trigger. It's hard to see how they won't since it's an obvious requirement for any serious Hammond clone.

[ChazKeys]

I'm so close to buying a YC61. I love almost everything about it! Just need organ high-trigger and a gig to test it on before pulling the trigger (and then sell my Electro 4D).

 

I don't love the YC61 Hammond but if I don't warm up to it I'm OK with using the HX3 Expander Module or B-3X on the iPad to compensate since I already own both. I hope Yamaha implements organ high-trigger. It's hard to see how they won't since it's an obvious requirement for any serious Hammond clone.

 

Even if they do add high trigger be aware that it may not be transmitted over MIDI. The E4D can transmit high trigger but the E5D and E6D don't. I find this infuriating on the Nord 5/6. Double whammy - you don't get the benefit when using external organ modules and neither is your MIDI performance recorded properly in your sequencer. The MIDI recording will only record notes that have made it to the lower trigger. I raised this with Nord and surprise surprise I got no reply!

[AnotherScott]

The E4D can transmit high trigger but the E5D and E6D don't. I find this infuriating on the Nord 5/6.

It is unfortunate. But I understand why the feature disappeared between the 4 and the 5... the 4 only let you play one sound at a time, the 5 lets you layer. So you have to allow for a new complication, with a layered piano and organ, that a single key press could have two MIDI Note On events (high trigger no velocity for organ, low trigger with velocity for piano). There ARE ways this could be handled, other companies have done it, but at least you can see what the source of the problem was, it almost certainly wasn't an arbitrary removal of a good feature.

 

Roland solved this on the VR09/VR730 by having the high trigger work only when you played organ by itself, and completely disabling the high trigger (internally AND externally) when playing a layered (or, I think, even a split?) sound of organ with something else. That's a different compromise, which you may see as better or worse than what Nord did. IIRC, Kurzweil and Dexibell solve it by virtue of having different layered sounds transmit on different MIDI channels, but those boards have very different MIDI architectures from Nord's, they are inherently multi-zone MIDI controllers.

[konaboy]

the total key travel is 10mm, the organ triggers when i depress a key by about 4mm, using a tape measure, I haven't bothered to go to the garage and get my micrometer.

 

that seems on the high side to me. what are we aiming for? what is the definition of high trigger, 2mm depress? so a 2mm difference... would anybody really notice, is the audience going to walk out because of your terrible playing due to the trigger point?

 

i'm not finding it hard to play percussively or do smears.

 

How can this be a deal breaker?

[ChazKeys]

the total key travel is 10mm, the organ triggers when i depress a key by about 4mm, using a tape measure, I haven't bothered to go to the garage and get my micrometer.

 

that seems on the high side to me. what are we aiming for? what is the definition of high trigger, 2mm depress? so a 2mm difference... would anybody really notice, is the audience going to walk out because of your terrible playing due to the trigger point?

 

i'm not finding it hard to play percussively or do smears.

 

How can this be a deal breaker?

 

Those measurements suggest it's high trigger. How old is your YC? Maybe there's a hardware revision. One thing to check is to layer the organ and the piano. Does the organ trigger first?

 

Nord E6D is 3mm organ 5mm synth

[konaboy]

they seem to trigger at same time.

here is photo showing where it triggers and full travel.

 

https://i.ibb.co/W55hMK5/20210121-181802.jpg

 

https://i.ibb.co/Lr9qqm1/image.png

 

plus remember, this is measured at the absolute tip of the key, we usually play a lot further back, so the difference in any trigger points will be considerably reduced.

 

I think it's time to move on..

 

[ChazKeys]

Yes - agreed should be playing the damn thing! But I couldn't resist measuring the CP73 - a whopping 7mm! I'll get me coat!

[AnotherScott]

One thing to check is to layer the organ and the piano. Does the organ trigger first?

Yes, that's the best way to confrim. Allow for the fact that, if you're playing with low velocity (which makes it easier to hear the difference), the piano will trigger quietly.

 

i'm not finding it hard to play percussively or do smears.

 

How can this be a deal breaker?

It can more come into play with different techniques, like fast single-key "machine gun" reptitions, or light slaps over bunches of keys. Personally, it's not a deal-killer for me, but I do like it, and can see where it would be more crucial for some people.

 

What I found tricky on the YC61 was a combination of a low trigger and a low release. This made it hard to do an fast smooth two note trill, because the one note would cut off audibly before the next note triggered, making it sound more "jerky" than on other organs. But maybe a little technique adjustment would be called for.

 

"High" and "low" are relative terms, and not all boards are going to have the sensors at the same point. It's possible that the highest triggering boards for organ may not be everyone's ideal because they would also have the highest release points.

[konaboy]

scott, you're right about the machine gun thing when using light touch so my fingers just brush the top of the key, it won't trigger. Needs a bit more effort and then good timing is tricky. i have no idea if this is possible on a real organ either. I don't care, i don't think this effect sounds great anyway, it's just a trick and not relevant to my style of playing. light slaps, are not a problem, and like you say we adapt our technique to the instrument.

 

I find this keyboard helps me play tight and accurately. Adding light percussive grace or mute notes to basslines or comping feels natural and easy.

 

Just so I don't come across as a complete shill (the keyboard is loaned to me by yamaha), my only gripe is a couple of keys (C2 & C6) have become a bit noisy and rattly when you release them and they spring back. it's distracting, even on headphones. it's a demo unit though that's been doing the rounds, and I don't know its history.

[GovernorSilver]

I missed this thread but after watching this gentleman spill some church-playing secrets and demo various things, I'm more interested. It sounds good enough to me as a non-pro player.

 

[video:youtube]

[rogs]

One thing to check is to layer the organ and the piano. Does the organ trigger first?

Yes, that's the best way to confrim. Allow for the fact that, if you're playing with low velocity (which makes it easier to hear the difference), the piano will trigger quietly.

 

If you play it with a really slow velocity, the piano doesn't sound at all! (Not that you ever would - under normal playing conditions).

If you play it with enough velocity for the piano to sound then yes, the piano and organ do trigger at the same point.

 

If you only release the key far enough to stop the organ sound , and then press again there is of course no new piano note.

The key has to be completely released, to allow the keyboard to acquire the reference point for the velocity sensing of the next piano note. - Quite logical of course.

 

That 'key off point' is much higher than the organ 'sound off point' of course... you only have to move the key a millimetre or so, to 'start' that velocity sensing point.

I suppose Yamaha might be able to use that high 'key movement has been started' point in some way as a high trigger point for organ?

But it would be a very high trigger!

 

Point is, there is a higher trigger reference than the current 'audio on' point......it just may not be possible - or even practical - to use it as a high trigger for organ sounds.

As has been already mentioned, it's probably not a deal breaker for most folk....

 

The YC61 keys feel OK for organ, and are quite usable for piano as well. (They are a bit noisy though - especially the accidentals, which have quite a lot of lateral movement.)

[dickiefunk]

I have ordered the YC61 today and it should be here tomorrow. I"m really looking forward to trying this out. I"ve been using an old Hammond XK-1 live which has been absolutely fine. However, I now need something that covers more sounds than just organ. I was pretty tempted with the Hammond SK-Pro as the organ sounds good and some of the other voices sound pretty good though I prefer the pianos and some of the other sound on the YC from the demos I"ve heard. Also I like the look of the workflow of the YC and the built in audio interface is a fantastic feature. Because of the built in audio interface I figured if I don"t get on with the Hammond sound of the YC (particularly the rotary) I could use IK"s B3X from my iPad.

[kenheeter]

I think you'll like the YC61. That's exactly what I've done until they fix the onboard rotary sim. I connect my iPad with B-3X via USB and I was able to map all of the controls I need to play it from the YC61. The USB implementation is really good on the YC61.

[AnotherScott]

You could also use B3X from the SK Pro, if your ipad has a headphone jack, by running a cable from there to the Hammond's audio input. Though that is another cable to run.

 

A surprising thing happened when I connected an iPad to Dexibell J7, which has both audio over USB *and* a traditional line input... I had a lot less latencey using the latter. I don't know whether the extra latency came from the keyboard side of the iPad side. The YC also has both connections, so it might be worth connecting the iPad both ways and seeing if you notice a difference. I'd be curious to know.

[b3keys]

Is it possible to play the organ from the waterfall keyboard and send a piano to a weighted controller via midi (split the sounds) and play independent parts from the two boards?

[AnotherScott]

Is it possible to play the organ from the waterfall keyboard and send a piano to a weighted controller via midi (split the sounds) and play independent parts from the two boards?

Yes... see post #3079616 earlier in this thread. That one talked about triggering a YC61 bass sound from an external controller, but it could just as easily have been piano "sent" there.

[dickiefunk]

I think you'll like the YC61. That's exactly what I've done until they fix the onboard rotary sim. I connect my iPad with B-3X via USB and I was able to map all of the controls I need to play it from the YC61. The USB implementation is really good on the YC61.

 

Thanks. Is it possible to turn off the built in organ in the YC61 and use B3X from the iPad instead? Also, would it be possible to layer the sounds of B3X with other sounds from the YC61 and save these as recallable live sets?

[konaboy]

yes, you can just toggle off, or turn down volume of the YC organ. You'd probably want to keep it on so that the drawbars are active for controlling the softsynth.

the beauty of the yc is everything built in, hands on controls, one knob per function design. turn it on, 2 seconds later you're playing.

 

so for me, adding all the inevitable hassle of connecting tablets running softsynths would ruin the experience & enjoyment and defeat the point of this board. the organs sounds great and the rotary is completely useable, you can tweak it to get close enough to where you want to be.

 

to each her own though!

 

if your plan is to mess around with ipads and softsynths anyway, just get an m-audio oxygen 61 instead Don't buy an expensive organ-centric keyboard if you don't plan on using the organ...!?

[AnotherScott]

Is it possible to turn off the built in organ in the YC61 and use B3X from the iPad instead? Also, would it be possible to layer the sounds of B3X with other sounds from the YC61 and save these as recallable live sets?

Yes... You'd set it up to play the internal and external organ sounds together, and then just turn the volume down on the internal one with that section's front knob, and then save the config as a Live Set.

 

There's some good info about this earlier in this thread, at posts #3072985 through #3072985 (December 5 through 7). Also pay attention to talking about using it to control HX3, the same concepts apply.

 

if your plan is to mess around with ipads and softsynths anyway, just get an m-audio oxygen 61 instead Don't buy an expensive organ-centric keyboard if you don't plan on using the organ...!?

 

Unfortunately, I have to disagree here. The reason I say "unfortunately" is that there are no soundless controllers that give you the quality organ controller an organ-centric keyboard does, and I've seen people wish there were! They will all lack one or more of the following (which admittedly some models with sounds lack as well)... waterfall keys, high trigger point, real drawbar controls that are properly sized and shaped (e.g. well suited for grabbing and manipulating a fistful at a time), buttons grouped to be logically set up for percussion and CV controls. Not all of these are important to every player... as I said, even some organ-centric boards fall short in one or more of these (and as discussed earlier, even the models with high trigger points don't necessarily employ them when used to control an external organ source). But to the extent that any of these are important to you, you're likely to find an organ-centric keyboard to provide a much more satisfying playing experience for an external organ sound than using a soundless controller would be. Strictly as an organ controller, my typical suggestion here would be the Numa Organ 2, which is the least expensive clonewheel that gives you all these features for triggering your organ sound from B-3X (or whatever). If budget isn't an issue, the Dexibell J7 Combo would be my favorites, since its motorized drawbars allow you to call up your B3X presets and have all your drawbars in the right place.

 

Another important consideration here is, what if you want to mix and match your organ sounds with other sounds, in real-time, with access to your controls for your other sounds? Even if I was content to run B3X from an Oxygen, what happens when I want to split/layer it with other sounds, or just switch among the sounds? The YC61 gives you all the sounds, and all the front panel controls to enable the different sounds in the different sections as needed, and even the controls to assign and manipulate the effects. If that's what you want to do, I can't imagine even attempting to do this on an Oxygen. You'd need to find and configure sources (other apps) for your non-organ sounds, do extensive mapping of the Oxygen's controls to even begin to approach the function/flexibility of the YC61's controls for sound selection/manipulation (as well as losing their associated displays), and... wait a minute, after you assign the drawbar functions, the Oxygen barely has any controls to map! But even if you chose a board with more controls, whatever you did manage to map still wouldn't have the logical control sizing/shaping/grouping/labeling for their functions that the YC does. That kind of dedicated control surface is a lot of why people prefer boards like the YC61 and the Nords in the first place (whether compared to controllers OR to workstation-style boards that have tons more features, but limited and more generic control surfaces).

 

So yeah, I'd say that if the YC61 gives you almost the entirety of the sounds and workflow you're looking for, and just wished the organ sounded like B-3X, then buying a YC61 and running B-3X is the way to get there.

[counterpoint]

Is it possible to turn off the built in organ in the YC61 and use B3X from the iPad instead? Also, would it be possible to layer the sounds of B3X with other sounds from the YC61 and save these as recallable live sets?

 

Just a small note of caution here...the Chorus/Vibrato and Percussion switches on the YC only send sysex info so don't expect those to work as they do with the YC organ unless you use some kind of VST hosting program in between to translate the messages or you assign some other MIDI-sending knobs on the YC to somehow perform the task. I use Cantabile hosting the B3X on a Surface Pro.