Yamaha YC61 Announced

[kenheeter]

My Nord Stage has a high trigger option for organ and when you layer an organ with a piano, the organ triggers first and the piano still reacts to velocity. It appears that this would be doable.

[AnotherScott]

The High Trigger point for the organ sounds would be great but can imagine as AnotherScott mentioned would be tricky to implement (if even possible?). Maybe this feature could be added purely for solo organ playing and not when layer sounds? However, I don't know if this would actually be possible?

That's how Roland did it on the VR09, as I mentioned in that earlier post. Nord took a different approach on the Electro, it allows you to have high and low triggers at the same time, but the tradeoff there is that HT doesn't work over MIDI (which means for example that a MIDI recording may not play back exactly as you performed it). To clarify, I'm not saying it's do-able or not, or easy or hard... My point was really that, without knowing the internal hardware and software architecture of the board in question, it's really impossible for any of us to know where on the scale of "trivial to impossible" such a change would be. This reminds me of a time Nord made a change in an update to a board that added something new but took away something old, and people asked why they couldn't continue to have an option to select the old thing they may have preferred, and the answer was simply that, in the area where such code had to reside, there simply wasn't room to maintain both options. You never know what unexpected technical hurdles may exist for something that sounds simple!

 

Are the clavinets on the YC new samples or are they from the Montage/MODX? If they are from those existing ranges I would have thought that it would then be possible to continue to make other sounds from these keyboards available for download? The Montage and MODX already have a vast amount of great sounding samples so that part is already sorted. If these were made available to download it would make the YC a lot more competitive with Nord.

I don't know whether or not the clav samples are from the Montage/MODX; I also don't know off-hand whether or not the Montage/MODX has clav samples of all 4 pickup positions (none of the perfornances are labeled with their pickup positions). But suggesting they could easily make Montage/MODX sounds available to download into the YC (within the limits of the YC's availablememory) is another example where I would be cautious about making assumptions. Yes, Yamaha already has a vast library of quality samples there, but there's often a lot more to a sound than a sample, and it is certainly possible that a given Montage/MODX performance takes advantage of hardware/software capabilities in the Montage/MODX that don't exist in the YC.

[kenheeter]

My Nord Stage does not transmit high trigger.

[stoken6]

You're right Scott that none of us know the internals of the board and limitations implied, but it doesn't seem so hard to me:

- menu option: high or low trigger when transmitting MIDI

- collapse stereo FX to mono when doing the L/R split

Now those might not be the first choice preference of 100% of users, and I can think of objections to both (extra complexity, FX might not sound good collapsed), but it's better than not having the option at all.

 

I would be surprised if memory is an issue, given a recent OS update included four entire AP/EP samples.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AnotherScott]

You're right Scott that none of us know the internals of the board and limitations implied, but it doesn't seem so hard to me:

- menu option: high or low trigger when transmitting MIDI

That was Nord's solution on the C1 (and I think C2/C2D) organ. But the internal sounds were only organ, nothing that required velocity. So they didn't have to deal with any additional variables, like what if you want to use high trigger over MIDI (to play an external organ sound from B3X, HX3, Gemini module, whatever) but you want to layer it with an internal sound that requires velocity (therefore low trigger), as you might on the YC. Anyway, my point wasn't to try to theorize every possible thing that could make it complicated, only to say that we don't always know what can make something that sounds simple actually be complicated. Whether it's characteristics of the physical action, dealing with internal vs. external sounds, dealing with simultaneous playing of organ and piano sounds, or anything else. It's even possible that the basic operation of the machine assumed the low trigger for everything, and there may be no way to alter that without a lot of rewrite or risk of unintended consequences. "It's just code" is something only said by people who never had to write code. ;-) Again, I'm not saying it is hard, I just think we can't assume its definitely not.

 

- collapse stereo FX to mono when doing the L/R split

Similarly, there's no reason to assume that's easy or even possible within its basic architecture. Maybe yes, maybe no.

 

I would be surprised if memory is an issue, given a recent OS update included four entire AP/EP samples.

Memory is not necessary re-allocatable for different functions. On a Nord Electro/Stage, the piano sample memory is physically separate from and accessed differently from other memory, you can't "borrow from this to use for that." Having space to load new playable samples may or may not have any bearing on how much space is available for loading new operational code.

 

Again, all I'm saying is, we just don't know how easy or hard something will be. This is not the kind of thing you can armchair quarterback simply based on what seems logical from the outside.

[stoken6]

Gotta love ya Scott - you cling on every step of the way!

 

It's a shame - this is such a "so close" board, and a few changes would make such a difference. But you're right that we don't know how hard those changes are internally.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[dickiefunk]

One thing I"ve just noticed with my YC61 is one of the keys has a loud clacks sound when released.

 

He is a link to a video demonstrating this :-

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BD6QHDbsJ6YR8DYN5dqw4PDg2wc4qFxr/view?usp=drivesdk

 

Has anyone experienced this with their YC61?

[dickiefunk]

Has anyone noticed any particularly noisy keys on the YC61 Otis what I"m hearing in the video clip I posted quite normal?

[niacin]

Sounds like you have a faulty key or mechanism, I'd return it.

[nursers]

Just wanted to say what a great thread this is overall. I'm doing some serious consideration on getting a YC 61 or 73 (I've put my Kronos LS 88 on the market to fund it) and the info on this thread has been amazing

[Pa Gherkin]

Does the YC73 use the same keyboard mechanism as the CP73? If I missed that info when scanning all the posts in this thread,mea culpa.

[Fleer]

Does the YC73 use the same keyboard mechanism as the CP73? If I missed that info when scanning all the posts in this thread,mea culpa.

Yep.

[Al Coda]

Does the YC73 use the same keyboard mechanism as the CP73? If I missed that info when scanning all the posts in this thread,mea culpa.

Yep.

 

Did Yamaha ever fix the CP73 keybed issue reported by many users in the past ?

 

A.C.

[Fleer]

Does the YC73 use the same keyboard mechanism as the CP73? If I missed that info when scanning all the posts in this thread,mea culpa.

Yep.

 

Did Yamaha ever fix the CP73 keybed issue reported by many users in the past ?

 

A.C.

I"m rather hesitant, which is why I"m more inclined to get the YC88 (or CP88).

[rogs]

I have the YC61, which I have connected to my older P.105 (which uses a GHS keybed) - via a Kenton MIDI.USB Host.

Playing the YC61 organ sounds from the GHS keybed is a very strange experience!

 

If I wanted a 73 note, I think I would look at buying the YC61 and coupling it to a P121 - via a MIDIUSB Host device.

Best of both worlds - and currently a bit cheaper (in the UK anyway) than the YC73.... and obviously quite a lot cheaper than the YC88.

 

Would mean 2 keyboards of course - but quite a lot more versatile, I would think?...

[stoken6]

If I wanted a 73 note, I think I would look at buying the YC61 and coupling it to a P121 - via a MIDIUSB Host device.

Best of both worlds - and currently a bit cheaper (in the UK anyway) than the YC73.... and obviously quite a lot cheaper than the YC88.

 

Would mean 2 keyboards of course - but quite a lot more versatile, I would think?...

Definitely more versatile, and also easier to carrry. Plus a little redundancy if one keyboard fails at a gig.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[drawbars]

I've been using a pair of Electro 5D73's for a couple of years now. I skipped the Electro 6 upgrade, waiting for something 'better.' I've really tried to like the YC series, and it has some features that I wish the Electro had, but I can't quite get there:

 

• KEYBED -- I'm personally disappointed that the YC73 -- the only model I'm really interested in -- doesn't have waterfall keys. I've learned to play EP, and even a little AP, on Nord's lighter keybed; and I like the organ feel of the Fatar, even though it's not perfect. I play organ and Clavinet a lot, and want a light keybed to match.
   
  
• COST -- It's right in the NE6's range, give or take a little. So it's certainly not a 'Nord killer,' in the way the VR-760 attempts to be. More like a 'Nord alternative.'
   
  
• MIDI -- Nord's MIDI implementation is quirky. Yamaha's is no better, and depends a lot on SysEx.
   
  
• LESLIE SIM -- I don't think it's better than the Nord sim, just different. Better in some aspects, worse in others. YMMV. Actually, I agree with AnotherScott's oberservations: I gave up bringing a mini-Vent (with halfmoon hookup installed), not because the Nord sim is better, but because the hookup is simpler than attaching a Vent without a dedicated output send. I actually think that Nord nailed the Samba Pa Ti/Magic Carpet Ride overdrive better than I could ever coax out of a Vent. So, I ED'd the Nord sim to get as close to the Vent sound as I could, and learned to deal with it.
  

 

Maybe there will be an Electro 7?

[Doerfler]

Hey Bruce, good to see you around here. Thanks for posting your observations, coming from a former Neo Instruments dealer these are important to the forum.

[analogman1]

Hey Bruce! As Doefer said, Great seeing you!

 

I myself use an Electro 5D 73.

 

I use it for everything under the sun...playing classical piano parts in Church to rehearsing with various rock acts.

 

It covers all of the bases great, as you well know.. which is why I also skipped the electro 6 upgrade.

 

For what it's worth, I'd of course want a hammer action piano and super amazing Leslie sim, but the electro always seems to fit in good enough and I never get any complaints from either fellow bandmates or the audience.

 

So for now I'll just continue with my current "Oberheim plug-in" addiction....much more fun and much cheaper!!!

[drawbars]

Nice to be back, guys!

 

Actually my whole perspective -- needs, priorities, GAS, etc. -- has kind of changed as of late. I'm doing a MIDI-enhanced solo gig lately, and given that I'm the only one schlepping around the gear, the least amount of kit that will still sound good is what I'm all about. This means things like outboard sims, tube preamps, and stomp boxes are gone.

 

I use a pair of NE5D-73's as a sort of 'poor man's Stage Compact' with second manual. I had toyed with the idea of actually going for the Stage, plus a Studiologic/M-Audio/whatever MIDI controller, but I've never loved the Nord Lead synth, choosing Dave Smith modules instead. I ended up with the pair of Electros mainly for backup, but not the kind that usually comes to mind. I create fairly complicated MIDI files with extra keys, faux guitars, and such. My two Electros, Ett and Tvoa, aren't complete duplicates, but they have a large subset of duplicated sounds. This way, I can play two sounds -- ex: Clavinet and B-3 -- on whatever keyboard feels best while singing; and know that I can still get pretty much any two other Nord sounds on background MIDI.

 

I was really excited to see the YC series, but a little underwhelmed by the organ on various demos. I would love to hear a 'serious' Hammond demo on the YC; anybody know of one?

 

________

As far as Leslie sims go, I don't think it's quite as Holy Grail as people make it out to be. Yes, Guido K. did an excellent job with the Ventilator, but it's now essentially a 9-year-old product, and does have a few weaknesses. Almost all of the recent updates have been targeted towards guitarists, too. OTOH, the Mojo sim is quite good, and the IK Multimedia Leslie is fantastic, IMHO. So it can certainly be done, if one is willing to dedicate a significant amount of processing power to the task. (Exactly what Neo did.) I think the demand, outside of groups like this one, is probably disappointingly low, which means that it doesn't make the short list on a 'stage' keyboard.

[nursers]

Ok so a dumb question that I hope helps others down the track in addition to myself. I'm currently setting up my YC61 for my cover band gig. For one song I need a lead / strings split. I get how to do a split but my issue is that the lead sound I love is a layered sound (Keys A and Keys B layer). My question is: is it possible to have that lead sound on one split and another Keys A or B sound on the lower split? I'm assuming not after a look around the web but thought I'd ask anyway

[niacin]

no

[nursers]

no

 

Can you be clearer?

 

 

But seriously thanks mate I'd assumed not, will just change how I configure my band rig

[AnotherScott]

or one song I need a lead / strings split. I get how to do a split but my issue is that the lead sound I love is a layered sound (Keys A and Keys B layer). My question is: is it possible to have that lead sound on one split and another Keys A or B sound on the lower split? I'm assuming not after a look around the web but thought I'd ask anyway

As you've seen, you can't do that... you get one Keys A sound, one Keys B sound, and organ in a Live Set (and you can't combine two Live Sets). But remember there's also the 4-zone MIDI master keyboard functions. If you want to split that 2-layer (Keys A+B) lead sound with a string sound, you may be able to get the string sounds from, for example, the smartphone you may already have with you. An iPhone, certainly. But even if it's Android, despite the limitations of that platform, if you're only playing one sound, and it's a sound like strings where a bit of latency is generally more acceptable than something like a piano or organ, it might be a workable solution.

[nursers]

Yep thanks heaps Scott, it's definitely an option

[stoken6]

@nursers, are you planning to gig with the YC61 on its own? Or can you use the MIDI controller capabilities of the YC61 to drive a string sound from another board that you'll have on the gig anyway?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[nursers]

@nursers, are you planning to gig with the YC61 on its own? Or can you use the MIDI controller capabilities of the YC61 to drive a string sound from another board that you'll have on the gig anyway?

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

Hi Mike! Yes that's definitely also an option as I'll have a MODX7. I like jumping between boards anyways so it's no biggie overall

[nursers]

Spent last evening getting my YC61 fully set up for tonight's gig. Once I got my head around the way it work (thanks to some help posted above), I really enjoy setting up sounds and like the configurability options including on the fly. That said, even from my position as a hack weekend warrior, I can see why the organ sounds / approach needs an improvement...

 

My only desire is for some great third party sound libraries to hit the market.

[AnotherScott]

My only desire is for some great third party sound libraries to hit the market.

I don't think YC61 has any ability to load third-party sounds. (Except I guess Live Sets, but they're just tweaks and recombinations of the existing factory sounds anyway.)

[niacin]

Spent last evening getting my YC61 fully set up for tonight's gig. Once I got my head around the way it work (thanks to some help posted above), I really enjoy setting up sounds and like the configurability options including on the fly. That said, even from my position as a hack weekend warrior, I can see why the organ sounds / approach needs an improvement...

 

My only desire is for some great third party sound libraries to hit the market.

 

There are sounds at Yamaha's Soundmondo site: https://soundmondo.yamahasynth.com/