Roland V-Combo VR-09

[Ekewaka]

One issue is that the Juno Stage is 76 key while VR-09 is 61. Might be a consideration. Then again I've learned to play piano sounds with crammed keyboards...

[becoming53]

Yeah it's nice to have the 76 keys on the stage...but I have a weighted 88-note stage piano underneath anyway, so I'm really looking for my ideal "everything-but-piano" board (for a covers band)

[Ekewaka]

Yeah it's nice to have the 76 keys on the stage...but I have a weighted 88-note stage piano underneath anyway, so I'm really looking for my ideal "everything-but-piano" board (for a covers band)

 

Yes, that's my goal for VR-09 as well so that's why I ordered it. Plus, I could take it to places where you have to squeeze in as a keyboard player....

[niacin]

What about the overall quality of all of the sounds of the vr-09 as compared to the sk1, and also the feel of the keybed and overall build quality/reliability?

 

The Stage has, imo, a really nice keybed. It also has the SRX-12 Pure Rhodes in its soundset, which with a few tweaks sounds really good. The VR-09 has the crap keys from the Juno-D/G series and I think the Rhodes is 'supernatural', and former 'supernatural' Rhodes have never done it for me. YMMV. If the VR-09 had 73 C-C Juno Stage keys I'd have pre-ordered one already, as it is I'll wait to play it before I decide. On paper it looks great, but the top drawbars of the VK organs never sounded terribly good to me and the keys of the Juno-G were some of the worst I've ever come across.

[Craig MacDonald]

The pianos are not supernatural.. Only the drawbar organ is supernatural. They say it's new but I can't imagine that it's anything more than the old VK engine with a few tweaks (and I'm not really a fan of the VK engine) however, even if the organ and the keyboard is a bit of a compromise, it's great value, and I'm hoping it will work for me for small gigs, and as a backup drawbar organ if I encounter any problems with my Crumar Mojo.

[HammondDave]

The pianos are not supernatural.. Only the drawbar organ is supernatural. They say it's new but I can't imagine that it's anything more than the old VK engine with a few tweaks (and I'm not really a fan of the VK engine) however, even if the organ and the keyboard is a bit of a compromise, it's great value, and I'm hoping it will work for me for small gigs, and as a backup drawbar organ if I encounter any problems with my Crumar Mojo.

 

If you need a backup organ, just use a VB3... Or even Garage Band and an IPad... Would sound better than the VR-09....

[Craig MacDonald]

Tell us how you really feel Dave!! I'm very optimistic, that it will sound better than the previous VK engine, but I expect I will be disappointed, the question is by how much and will it be a reasonable compromise to get a 12 pound drawbar organ.

 

I hear you Dave.. I have VB3 and an audio interface and a suitable laptop.. I just don't want to have to bring so many pieces to a gig.. we'll see, I have one on order, I'll pass judgement once I've had some time with it.

[Ekewaka]

If you need a backup organ, just use a VB3... Or even Garage Band and an IPad... Would sound better than the VR-09....

... I assume you have tested the organ parts of VR-09 inside out, right?

[Adan]

The VK organ is good enough for 90% of the gigs I have ever done, the remaining 10% being the very organ-centric gigs, and 10% is probably a higher figure than what the typical VR09 purchaser will do. When I say "good enough," I mean it's good enough that the average listener can close their eyes and imagine they're listening to a real B3. If the average listener were Ham-on-Dave, it would be a different story, but that's not the world we live in.

[Adan]

As I think I said earlier in this thread, it's going to be important to play this keyboard before deciding if it's a passable clone, even as a backup/rehearsal/mini-gig variety. I know the action is going to be a bad compromise for organ, but at the very least, the real time controls have to be reasonably accessible and work well, and the expression pedal has to be a reasonable facsimile of a swell.

[Ekewaka]

Yes I doubt any emulation will ever please B3 users. However, in a real life band scenario, you are just part of the overall sound and in most cases the weakest link is the amplification, anyway. So if VR-09 passes the most rudimentary 'sounds good enough as organ', I'm pleased.

 

As a bonus I really like all the synth aspects as I could use it for the eighties string and Jupiter-style sounds, me thinks that's the hidden gem with this device. Anyway, I know more when I have one in my hands, hopefully early April.

[The_Star_Guy]

Yes I doubt any emulation will ever please B3 users. However, in a real life band scenario, you are just part of the overall sound and in most cases the weakest link is the amplification, anyway. So if VR-09 passes the most rudimentary 'sounds good enough as organ', I'm pleased.

 

As a bonus I really like all the synth aspects as I could use it for the eighties string and Jupiter-style sounds, me thinks that's the hidden gem with this device. Anyway, I know more when I have one in my hands, hopefully early April.

 

These are pretty much the key points right here. At 12 pounds and $999 (or less) street price, if the Organ is effective for live gigs, given the real-time drawbar control, and the expanded raw sound capabilities, like the sine wave mode on the new transistor organ model, it's still a winner.

 

And after reviewing the VA synth editing parameters on the IPad app, I am also starting to think that this is the real sleeper prize of this keyboard as well. A 3 oscillator/partial design with PWM, PCM waveform and SuperSaw options, combined with switchable -12db/-24db filter settings? And GM2/XGlite compatibility to boot? Sold!

 

The other thing that is truly interesting is that Sweetwater has just started offering a cash rebate on Hammond SK-1 and SK-2 models. By discontinuing the XK-1 they really left themselves open to the pricing coup that is the VR-09, especially since they must have heard it at Namm.

[Craig MacDonald]

Star Guy,

 

I feel exactly the same way you do.. at 12 pounds and $999 should I expect the organ to sound as good as my Mojo? Nope, but if it's a reasonably good facsimile AND it has a bunch of other high quality built in voices, along with a VA synth AND a GM2 sound set, it's a screaming deal!

 

I'm expecting tradeoffs, obviously, the question simply is how significant are the tradeoffs. I can put up with a lot to play some of my smaller, low paying, gigs with a single 12 pound keyboard. I'm really looking to streamline my rig AND when I play smaller venues, where the money is a bit tighter, I don't want to drag out my expensive Mojo/Kronos rig.

 

 

[niacin]

Thanks for pointing that out, I'm actually pretty hopeful this thing will sound fine, and all the real-time effects tweaking is a real plus, it's really the key action that concerns me: Juno-D/G no aftertouch = plays like a table. Maybe those who played it at NAMM could comment on whether this is the case or not. If it plays ok I'm probably sold. Drawbars sending regular CC#s would be a bonus (I have VB3 running on a V-Machine), but the manual isn't up on Roland's website yet.

 

 

 

The pianos are not supernatural.. Only the drawbar organ is supernatural. They say it's new but I can't imagine that it's anything more than the old VK engine with a few tweaks (and I'm not really a fan of the VK engine) however, even if the organ and the keyboard is a bit of a compromise, it's great value, and I'm hoping it will work for me for small gigs, and as a backup drawbar organ if I encounter any problems with my Crumar Mojo.

[Ekewaka]

Seems aftertouch is a feature left out from many keyboards today.

 

Frankly speaking I don't miss it that much.

[niacin]

I don't need aftertouch, but it would mean that you don't feel like you're playing a table. The Juno G felt like playing a table, to me anyway. Is the Juno Di action any different from the original Juno G?

[niacin]

Ok, so I played a Juno Di yesterday, and the key action isn't horrible, much better than the original Juno G, not even semi-weighted, but the key travel is shallow and doesn't bottom out hard. Fine for organ. I've never been hung up on waterfall keys - the first Hammond I played was an L-100.

 

So this is now on my shopping list as a perfect rehearsal board for what I do (funk trio and disco-dance-pop-trash covers bands), and maybe I can finally go to jams and sit in, VR-09 under one arm, EV ZxA1 under the other. Played a trio gig last night, lug in up a flight of stairs with a few U-turns, would have been so much easier with this thing and I reckon I probably could have gotten away with it vis-a-vis my current set-up, which is alot more complicated and time-consumung to set up and pack down (controller keyboard that doesn't have an expression pedal input - B4d drawbars - Anatek midi pedal input - Midi Solutions midi merge - 3u rack: V-Machine running VB-3, Fantom Xr for Rhodes, vibes, bass and samples). The few samples I use are just single shot and I think I might even be able to use the VR-09 usb audio facility to play them, fingers crossed. I'm not expecting it to sound as good as VB-3, but now I've just gotta hope the organ has been improved enough from the VK-7 to keep me happy.

[AnotherScott]

The few samples I use are just single shot and I think I might even be able to use the VR-09 usb audio facility to play them, fingers crossed.

An iPad would probably handle that well for you, too.

[B3bluesman59]

 

An iPad would probably handle that well for you, too.

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Or you could use a Samsung Galaxy Tab 2...currently selling at Best Buy in my area for $179. 8 gigs on the Tab 2 is plenty for what you need. I use a Tab 2 for my backing tracks on solo gigs. No problems. I am not bad mouthing Apple...just wanted to let niacin know that there are alternatives to the Ipad for a whole lot less money.

[Craig MacDonald]

An iPad would probably handle that well for you, too.

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Or you could use a Samsung Galaxy Tab 2...currently selling at Best Buy in my area for $179. 8 gigs on the Tab 2 is plenty for what you need. I use a Tab 2 for my backing tracks on solo gigs. No problems. I am not bad mouthing Apple...just wanted to let niacin know that there are alternatives to the Ipad for a whole lot less money.

 

Since the VR-09 includes and iPad editor for the organ and synth engines, I tend to think that the iPad makes more sense.. and you probably don't need a high end expensive iPad for these simple apps.

[niacin]

Thanks guys, I don't own an iPad but can borrow one for editing the VR-09, but I'm really liking the possibility of just having to bring the VR-09 and the EV. Good to know the options though, samples are increasingly a part of what the funk trio does.

[AnotherScott]

Thanks guys, I don't own an iPad but can borrow one for editing the VR-09, but I'm really liking the possibility of just having to bring the VR-09 and the EV. Good to know the options though, samples are increasingly a part of what the funk trio does.

If you happen to have an iPhone, I think there are even sample triggering apps for that.

[Craig MacDonald]

Thanks guys, I don't own an iPad but can borrow one for editing the VR-09, but I'm really liking the possibility of just having to bring the VR-09 and the EV. Good to know the options though, samples are increasingly a part of what the funk trio does.

 

I have a couple of samples that I trigger in my classic rock band.. a couple are introductions to songs, that I just load into my Kronos from a usb stick (before I play the song) and then I simply select them and hit play to begin the song.. Assuming your requirements aren't too involved you should probably be able to play a sample or two this way without too much trouble.

[Charleston]

Organ stuff at 7:42:

 

[video:youtube]

[HSS]

Thanks for the clip. The VR-09 sounds decent... Although I wish I could have heard more straight-up on/off percussion.

 

Since I'm not a hardcore B3 dude, for me it's often hard to evaluate the quality of a Leslie sim from a Youtube video clip, but IMO it sounds better and perhaps more tweakable (with an Ipad) than the one on the VK8.

[Craig MacDonald]

Thanks for the clip. The VR-09 sounds decent... Although I wish I could have heard more straight-up on/off percussion.

 

Since I'm not a hardcore B3 dude, for me it's often hard to evaluate the quality of a Leslie sim from a Youtube video clip, but IMO it sounds better and perhaps more tweakable (with an Ipad) than the one on the VK8.

 

I read/heard that it is a new sim that they've referred to as "dual"... I think that it does sound significantly better than previous versions, and this video has given me some hope that I could dial up a reasonable sounding organ/leslie (although perhaps a bit too much "beating" on the top end of the leslie sim).

 

Overall it's a pretty good video, and I'm impressed with the hammond representation, for a $999 instrument!

[FXM]

Initially I assumed that there would be a Windows editor in addition to the iPad editor. However, I haven't found any information suggesting there is a Windows editor - am I right in thinking there isn't one?

 

Neil

[Craig MacDonald]

Initially I assumed that there would be a Windows editor in addition to the iPad editor. However, I haven't found any information suggesting there is a Windows editor - am I right in thinking there isn't one?

 

Neil

 

Neil I don't think so.. here's the text from the announcement.. it's clearly an iPad app..

 

"The free VR-09 Editor app for iPad gives you powerful, intuitive control of the organ and synth sound engines via your tablets full-color touchscreen interface. Quickly edit organ sounds and customize vintage tonewheel characteristics such as leakage, click noise, and rotary speed, and easily access synth sounds to build custom tones and layers. After tweaking sounds at home, you can take your iPad to the gig and use the app for extra real-time control on stage. Convenient, cable-free communication between the V-Combo VR-09 and iPad is simple to set up with Roland Wireless Connect. Alternately, you can link up with a USB cable via Apples iPad Camera Connection Kit."

 

Clearly they're aligning with Apple's iPad architecture, at least at this point.

[HSS]

Thanks for the clip. The VR-09 sounds decent... Although I wish I could have heard more straight-up on/off percussion.

 

Since I'm not a hardcore B3 dude, for me it's often hard to evaluate the quality of a Leslie sim from a Youtube video clip, but IMO it sounds better and perhaps more tweakable (with an Ipad) than the one on the VK8.

 

I read/heard that it is a new sim that they've referred to as "dual"... I think that it does sound significantly better than previous versions, and this video has given me some hope that I could dial up a reasonable sounding organ/leslie (although perhaps a bit too much "beating" on the top end of the leslie sim).

 

Overall it's a pretty good video, and I'm impressed with the hammond representation, for a $999 instrument!

Cool... If the percussion is there for me I might try to pick one up. I confess that also being a drummer, I'm perhaps overly obsessed with the fat woody thunk of the B3's percussion sounds.

[aellison62]

Thanks Charleston for the clip. It really helped understanding the editing capabilities of the Leslie for one, I would have liked, as previous posters, to have seen more straight percussion variations but still, sounded good.

 

I'd like to ask the forum to compare this VR-09 with the PC361 as far as a drawbar-organ engine + keyboard option.

 

I'm looking for a top 61 key board that must have a good organ engine and drawbar control and both of these boards are in the same price range (used PC361 of course).

 

Having not laid my hands on the Roland yet, I am tempted by the bargain price that the PC361 is going for. Yet I have an Ipad and am interested in the editing capabilities of the VR-09. The PC 361 is of course editable, but perhaps with more of a learning curve.

 

Any thoughts from PC 361 owners or anyone considering the VR-09 ?