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#2865606 - 07/09/17 09:53 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Jazzooo]
Jazzooo Offline
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"I think its mostly the third of those three things. Placement/obtrusiveness is not very different from two 8" PA units placed right next to each other, angled away from each other, and that also gives you a sense of "spread" to the sound if not true stereo, which in a sense, is what the SSv3 gives you, though the SS effect is more three dimensional(and perhaps provides that effect over a wider area)."

In my experience this only works the way you're describing if you are positioned just right, whereas the illusion of "dimensional spread" with the S3 works all over the room. In the first method it might seem like it would work but go out into the audience and move around the room and you'll see what I mean. If you stand more in front of one speaker, that's pretty much what you hear--the one speaker.

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#2865616 - 07/09/17 11:43 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Jazzooo]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jazzooo
In the first method it might seem like it would work but go out into the audience and move around the room and you'll see what I mean.

I've always done that, regardless of room or sound system. I have a little sequence that I run, and I wander around the venue checking the balance. Wanna do everything I can to make sure that as many people as possible hear as much of what I'm hearing as they can. That's how I fine tune the balance of the side speaker as well.

Kronos Combis with Karma running are real good for that in a pinch.

dB

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#2865622 - 07/09/17 12:17 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Jazzooo]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Jazzooo
In my experience this only works the way you're describing if you are positioned just right, whereas the illusion of "dimensional spread" with the S3 works all over the room. In the first method it might seem like it would work but go out into the audience and move around the room and you'll see what I mean. If you stand more in front of one speaker, that's pretty much what you hear--the one speaker.

Yes, that was really my point, that that is the reason to consider an SS3 as a second PA speaker, rather than using a standard second PA speaker (which might otherwise even be lighter and cheaper). Though I think you do tend to get *some* spread even from the two PA speakers next to but angled away from each other (i.e. I think it gets rid of some of the sense that the sound is "coming out of a box"), even if only by virtue of a wider range of room reflections. But I don't have a lot of experience with this.
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#2867139 - 07/15/17 06:18 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: AnotherScott]
Synthaholic Offline
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Definitely the best setup I've found for the SSV3, when I need more bottom end. The other speaker is the Electro-Voice ZLX-12P, which has a slanted top. But it came packaged with a very thick molded foam that makes it flat. The thin sheet of oak (which I'll paint black) reflects the SSV3 side speaker wonderfully.

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#2867170 - 07/15/17 08:46 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Synthaholic]
cphollis Offline
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Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
Definitely the best setup I've found for the SSV3, when I need more bottom end. The other speaker is the Electro-Voice ZLX-12P, which has a slanted top. But it came packaged with a very thick molded foam that makes it flat. The thin sheet of oak (which I'll paint black) reflects the SSV3 side speaker wonderfully.



OK, this is way cool smile
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#2867179 - 07/15/17 09:32 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: cphollis]
davedoerfler Online   content
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Originally Posted By: cphollis

OK, this is way cool smile

agreed, but now there are 5 components to the set up as opposed to the original idea of 1.

CPS SS3, EV ZLX-12P, speaker stand, foam pad, oak plywood.
Not making any judgement here, I bet this set up sounds awesome. twothumbs
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#2867180 - 07/15/17 09:37 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: davedoerfler]
cphollis Offline
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Originally Posted By: davedoerfler
Originally Posted By: cphollis

OK, this is way cool smile

agreed, but now there are 5 components to the set up as opposed to the original idea of 1.

CPS SS3, EV ZLX-12P, speaker stand, foam pad, oak plywood.
Not making any judgement here, I bet this set up sounds awesome. twothumbs


Yeah, true, but for smaller bar gigs, you'd bring the awesome surround sound, and look good in the process.

A bunch of us are hooked on the SSv3 surround sound. We're just trying to amplify it a bit :-)

I mean, I can bring overpowering gear to whatever, just trying to find the right vibe for the low-paying bar gig ..
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#2867181 - 07/15/17 09:43 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: cphollis]
cphollis Offline
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Loc: Massachussets, Florida
BTW, did an outdoor party gig this evening. Wen with a pair of QSC K8.2s, no regrets.
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#2867250 - 07/16/17 11:09 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: davedoerfler]
Synthaholic Offline
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Originally Posted By: davedoerfler
Originally Posted By: cphollis

OK, this is way cool smile

agreed, but now there are 5 components to the set up as opposed to the original idea of 1.

CPS SS3, EV ZLX-12P, speaker stand, foam pad, oak plywood.
Not making any judgement here, I bet this set up sounds awesome. twothumbs


It did sound awesome!

Keep in mind that I am a one-man band (ugh!), so I have to accommodate bass/drums. Instead of using the subwoofer out of the SSV3, or using alternate outs from my mixer, I use the pre aux send to dial in bass/kick/snare to the EV, along with a small bit of keys and no vocals. It keeps the SSV3 stereo a little purer. On a song like 'Riders On The Storm' it's great to get that snare cracking through the EV with a bit more authority, without overpowering that 8" SSV3.

Edit to add: it also was nice having the SSV3 aimed above customer's heads, sitting close by. I didn't notice as many people having to lean in to have conversations.
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#2867372 - 07/17/17 06:44 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Synthaholic]
MotiDave Offline
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Registered: 12/04/12
Posts: 1491
Loc: San Diego, CA USA
Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
Originally Posted By: davedoerfler
Originally Posted By: cphollis

OK, this is way cool smile

agreed, but now there are 5 components to the set up as opposed to the original idea of 1.

CPS SS3, EV ZLX-12P, speaker stand, foam pad, oak plywood.
Not making any judgement here, I bet this set up sounds awesome. twothumbs


It did sound awesome!

Keep in mind that I am a one-man band (ugh!), so I have to accommodate bass/drums. Instead of using the subwoofer out of the SSV3, or using alternate outs from my mixer, I use the pre aux send to dial in bass/kick/snare to the EV, along with a small bit of keys and no vocals. It keeps the SSV3 stereo a little purer. On a song like 'Riders On The Storm' it's great to get that snare cracking through the EV with a bit more authority, without overpowering that 8" SSV3.

Edit to add: it also was nice having the SSV3 aimed above customer's heads, sitting close by. I didn't notice as many people having to lean in to have conversations.

Wait a minute! They were talking during your rendition of Riders On The Storm??? GASP! They are MONSTERS!!!

smile
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#2867519 - 07/17/17 04:26 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: MotiDave]
Synthaholic Offline
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Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
It did sound awesome!

Keep in mind that I am a one-man band (ugh!), so I have to accommodate bass/drums. Instead of using the subwoofer out of the SSV3, or using alternate outs from my mixer, I use the pre aux send to dial in bass/kick/snare to the EV, along with a small bit of keys and no vocals. It keeps the SSV3 stereo a little purer. On a song like 'Riders On The Storm' it's great to get that snare cracking through the EV with a bit more authority, without overpowering that 8" SSV3.

Edit to add: it also was nice having the SSV3 aimed above customer's heads, sitting close by. I didn't notice as many people having to lean in to have conversations.

Wait a minute! They were talking during your rendition of Riders On The Storm??? GASP! They are MONSTERS!!!

smile


Hey, better than the usual mocking laughter. At that place musicians set up in front of the dart boards. I'm just glad they don't keep playing.


Edited by Synthaholic (07/17/17 04:27 PM)
Edit Reason: damn quote marks
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#2868510 - 07/22/17 09:37 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Synthaholic]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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My SS v5/Lite/whatever died in the middle of the second set of my gig last night. Thank goodness I had the K8 with me. eek

I've been very lucky, I guess - I can't ever remember having an amp die on me during a gig. I checked the fuse - it's fine. The thing is just dead. It's not even a year old. frown

That's okay - the strained/compressed sound that the v5 produces was really noticeable to me last night even with the K8, so I'm gonna take this as a sign to retire this unit. At some point, I imagine I'll grab a v3 if I see one for a good price - I really miss that one - arguably my favorite combo amp ever. thu

dB
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#2868516 - 07/22/17 10:04 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Dave Bryce]
16251 Offline
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Registered: 06/07/07
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Originally Posted By: Dave Bryce
My SS v5/Lite/whatever died in the middle of the second setdB


I'm sorry to hear that, for a few reasons wink

I wonder if the changes Aspen made to the v5 contributed to its demise?
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#2868530 - 07/22/17 10:41 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: 16251]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: 16251
I wonder if the changes Aspen made to the v5 contributed to its demise?

Not a clue...but I take pretty decent care of my gear, and I really haven't worked it that hard - my band really hasn't been playing that much this year. Not even sure I got ten gigs out of the v5; plus, of course, I've been using it with the K8, so I haven't been driving it that hard. idk

dB
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#2868544 - 07/22/17 11:14 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Dave Bryce]
Joe Muscara Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dave Bryce
the strained/compressed sound that the v5 produces was really noticeable to me last night
I wonder if that was because it was dying.

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#2868548 - 07/22/17 11:26 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Joe Muscara]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
Originally Posted By: Dave Bryce
the strained/compressed sound that the v5 produces was really noticeable to me last night
I wonder if that was because it was dying.

Yeah, I wondered about that as well.

dB
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#2868559 - 07/22/17 12:51 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Jazzooo]
keyman27 Offline
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Registered: 08/23/10
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What's the speaker stand of choice for putting the SSv3 on its side (main speaker facing up, side facing down)?

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#2868560 - 07/22/17 12:54 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: keyman27]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: keyman27
What's the speaker stand of choice for putting the SSv3 on its side (main speaker facing up, side facing down)?


This amp stand is the type I use for that configuration.

dB



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#2868562 - 07/22/17 12:57 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: keyman27]
cphollis Offline
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This is the one I've been using for a while. No complaints, but there may be better.

CLONK
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#2868566 - 07/22/17 01:04 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Dave Bryce]
Bill Spencer Offline
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Registered: 05/15/11
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Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: Dave Bryce
Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
Originally Posted By: Dave Bryce
the strained/compressed sound that the v5 produces was really noticeable to me last night
I wonder if that was because it was dying.

Yeah, I wondered about that as well.

dB


This is what I was getting at when poorer sound was first reported in the v5. Perhaps these poor sounding units are an anomoly/manufacturing defect, not representative of the new design in general- just wondering. Dave, I'm sure Aspen will get you a fully functioning unit.


Edited by Bill Spencer (07/22/17 01:04 PM)

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#2868567 - 07/22/17 01:18 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Dave Bryce]
davedoerfler Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Dave Bryce
Originally Posted By: keyman27
What's the speaker stand of choice for putting the SSv3 on its side (main speaker facing up, side facing down)?

This amp stand is the type I use for that configuration.
dB


Originally Posted By: cphollis
This is the one I've been using for a while. No complaints, but there may be better.

CLONK



what a coincidence. laugh
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#2868568 - 07/22/17 01:20 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Bill Spencer]
davedoerfler Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Bill Spencer
Dave, I'm sure Aspen will get you a fully functioning unit.


Hey Bill, in all seriousness, how are you sure about this?
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#2868569 - 07/22/17 01:20 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Bill Spencer]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bill Spencer
This is what I was getting at when poorer sound was first reported in the v5. Perhaps these poor sounding units are an anomoly/manufacturing defect, not representative of the new design in general- just wondering.

When I picked up the v5 from Aspen, I took the second one we opened. The first one had some noise issues.

Not sure what kind of anomaly/manufacturing defect could produce the strain I was hearing. To my ear, the amps in the v5 didn't sound as good as the ones in the v3 - not the same amount of dynamic range, IMO. Aspen seemed to think the one I took from his shop sounded fine when we listened to it. So did I...until I pushed it at a gig.

I'm not interested in a new v5. If I get another SS, I would want a v3. I simply have a difficult time believing that it's possible to knock <25% off the weight of a combo amp without somewhat changing the sound; and, having gotten used to the v3, I prefer it even with the additional weight.

dB


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#2868570 - 07/22/17 01:27 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: keyman27]
OrpheusNY Offline
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Registered: 01/23/15
Posts: 59
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
Amp stand for cheapskates (also, it folds flat):

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RS4000

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#2868576 - 07/22/17 01:37 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: davedoerfler]
Bill Spencer Offline
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Registered: 05/15/11
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Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: davedoerfler
Originally Posted By: Bill Spencer
Dave, I'm sure Aspen will get you a fully functioning unit.


Hey Bill, in all seriousness, how are you sure about this?


Judging from my experience with him and his excellent reputation for customer service. I suppose I could have used a qualifier, "reasonably" or "98%" or something, so point taken.

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#2868580 - 07/22/17 01:45 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Bill Spencer]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Bill Spencer
Originally Posted By: davedoerfler
Originally Posted By: Bill Spencer
Dave, I'm sure Aspen will get you a fully functioning unit.


Hey Bill, in all seriousness, how are you sure about this?


Judging from my experience with him and his excellent reputation for customer service. I suppose I could have used a qualifier, "reasonably" or "98%" or something, so point taken.

This reminds me of a thread a while back where MathOfInsects and I were talking about our experiences having conversations with people from different parts of the country. I've used the phrase "I'm sure" like that, and locally, am never misunderstood. I mean, assuming there is not a question as to whether the person is or is not psychic, it is obvious from context that it is impossible to truly be 100% sure, so in that context, it is shorthand for, "from everything I know, this is what I would fully expect would almost certainly be the case." But when I used "sure" in that manner with someone from "elsewhere," she called me out the same way, "how you can you be sure of that?" So I put this in the category of "why people from New York can't date people from the midwest." ;-)
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#2868605 - 07/22/17 03:09 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: AnotherScott]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
So I put this in the category of "why people from New York can't date people from the midwest." ;-)

Are you sure about that? idk grin

dB
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#2868610 - 07/22/17 03:35 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: OrpheusNY]
hatricklov Offline
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Registered: 08/20/01
Posts: 193
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Originally Posted By: OrpheusNY
Amp stand for cheapskates (also, it folds flat):

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RS4000

+1 ... this is the stand I have too.
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#2868617 - 07/22/17 04:53 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: OrpheusNY]
16251 Offline
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Registered: 06/07/07
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Originally Posted By: OrpheusNY
Amp stand for cheapskates (also, it folds flat):

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RS4000
nice!
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#2868641 - 07/22/17 08:05 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Dave Bryce]
Al Coda Offline
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Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 3869
Loc: out in the sticks
Originally Posted By: Dave Bryce

I simply have a difficult time believing that it's possible to knock <25% off the weight of a combo amp without somewhat changing the sound; and, having gotten used to the v3, I prefer it even with the additional weight.

dB


Maybe you΄re right, - maybe not ...

There΄s a difference in specific weight between MDF (v3) and plywood (what you call v5).
MDF is somewhat comparable to particle board,- lots of glue adding weight.
It might be interesting to find out what the difference in weight between those EMPTY v3 and v5 cabs is.
Can be that΄s the 25%.

OTOH, plywood and MDF might or really do sound different, but also here΄s the question how much different they sound.
I guess it΄s less different than any difference between plywood and ABS, plastic etc..

I can also imagine, the sonic differences you recognized since you got the latest version, were coming from a already and slowly failing unit.

My impression was, Aspen, in his age and w/ his experience as a hardware designer and manufacturer and while keeping some amount of idealism nonetheless,- doesn΄t talk too much BS and is interested delivering some quality.
The design of the SS itself isn΄t for everyone, but that was clear already before.

I wonder what΄s inside the SSv3 not being under his control.
The manufacturing of his patented M/S controller might be more under his control than other 3rd party components bought in addition.

Defective Class-D amp modules can cause many abnormalyties before failing completely.

Just saying ...

A.C.

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