Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[cphollis]

After a brief email exchange with Aspen, I think that if the unit isn't loud enough by itself, the next step is to put it *directly* on top of a full-range self-powered PA cab like the QSC K12.

 

I am convincing myself that a modest amount of the stereo effect can go a long way. Use the self-powered PA for volume and cut, and the Spacestation V3 for fill.

 

Very much looking forward to the first wave of reviews here ...

[AnotherScott]

After a brief email exchange with Aspen, I think that if the unit isn't loud enough by itself, the next step is to put it *directly* on top of a full-range self-powered PA cab like the QSC K12.

 

I am convincing myself that a modest amount of the stereo effect can go a long way. Use the self-powered PA for volume and cut, and the Spacestation V3 for fill.

That's an interesting idea. Also, though, what about simply sending some of your keyboard line to FOH (assuming there is one)?

[Al Coda]

Surely someone will stack two of these atop a subwoofer sooner or later.

 

I´m not sure if it is designed for that purpose or not.

Stacking one Spacestation V3 w/ a small sub should be great though.

I don´t expect too much from such a small cab.

When it´s loud enough for me to monitor my keys and it sounds good w/ the soundpalette I use, that´s what I want.

The portability of that thing is just too cool for a stereo system.

I really hope I can get one in europe, it´s price not exploding.

 

In addition, I´d go "balanced line-out" to the PA in larger rooms or outdoor.

 

I expect Aspen will come up w/ more powerfull, but also larger cabinet designs if the Spacestation V3 will be a winner and sells well.

 

A.C.

[HAMEGZ]

After a brief email exchange with Aspen, I think that if the unit isn't loud enough by itself, the next step is to put it *directly* on top of a full-range self-powered PA cab like the QSC K12.

 

...

 

Well Friday will be my first gig with it, sitting right next to the drummer one night and the bass player the next, both loud, so a report will be forthcoming

 

I just wonder about mixing the SS stereo fx right on top of a full range mono speaker if the stereo image would get mixed up and cancelled.

 

[cphollis]

Aspen said "no, it wouldn't" -- as long as the full-range speaker was precisely underneath the SS and oriented along the same axis.

 

You'd hear proportionally less stereo effect if you were in the path of the full-range speaker, but it would certainly be there. Outside the path of the full-range speaker, it'd be all SS, which would be very desirable.

 

If it were me, I'd try it solo and see how far it could go before bringing on a helper. Aspen keeps emphasizing that "musicians don't have to play as loud if everyone can hear each other". I've got to think he's thinking small ensembles, and not the sometimes-raucous gangs I play with.

[Tobias Åslund]

Do you think this thing by itself is strong enough for a medium sized 4 or 5 piece bar gig where there's no FOH?

I would not expect the V3 to be much more powerful than the original SpaceStation (MkI) that I have. The old one I feel is quite underpowered. It might be ok for personal monitoring at rehearsal, or playing softly at a cocktail party it might do, but with a drummer in a live setting as only amplification - no way. Mine is rated 100 + 100 W and the new one doesn't seem to have much more at 100 + 100, with 40 + 40 for mid/highs. Maybe adding a subwoofer might help.

 

Anyway - it will be interesting to read a review of this updated version. I've never been happy with the old SpaceStation - underpowered, and lacking both bottom end and treble. I even had mine up for sale with no luck, so it mostly just sits in a storing space these days.

[j8stringer]

Hello everyone. I'm new here. I found my way here after searching for info about the Spacstation V3. Mine arrived today and is in my studio. I'm a guitar player and have a solo gig I do, instrumental background music, that I thought the SS would be perfect for. I have a pair of FBT powered monitors, but the downsizing for smaller gigs got me to buy the SS Mk II. I use an AxeFx into a MOTU Traveler, with the backing parts played thru a Roland Sonic Cell ( thumb drive, wave or MIDI ). So far I am pleased with the V3. Better bass and high end, better all around fidelity...and more volume. Later I will try one of my full range FBTs in the Sub out...just to see...but so far I'm wearing a smile.

[HAMEGZ]

OK the reviews are starting to roll in ,

 

[HAMEGZ]

Initial report,just unboxed it.Fed ex damaged the front of the box, it wasn't double boxed, but luckily no damage to the ss.

Weight according to my scale is 39 pounds

Initial sound test set up on top of a Roland kc1w sub about 5 feet away from my position.

Jupiter 80 1/4 TR cables into the SS.mid n high controls at 12 o, clock. Gain at 12 had to turn the width to about 2 to hear the spread but notice difference when turned down.

In a solo setting it's loud but it does overload HOWEVER I have to redo my gain structure so I'm not worried yet.

On EPs with FX it swims!

Ok I have to eat supper now. Be

back

 

[16251]

Rhodes with stereo vibrato? My litmus test.

[Leo Dutra]

I'm using my SFX MkII with the Motion Sound KT-80 and loving it!! The Rhodes with vibrato is better than Leslie simulation in my Hammond SK2!!

 

[Leo Dutra]

Doing Similar here. From SFX MkII to KT-80 tube channel for filling.

[Doerfler]

Ok I have to eat supper now. Be

back

 

must have been quite a meal!

[16251]

Ok I have to eat supper now. Be

back

 

must have been quite a meal!

I hope the Heimlich wasn't necessary.

[HAMEGZ]

Ok I have to eat supper now. Be

back

 

must have been quite a meal!

 

LOL

SO I returned to the SS after my modest meal and played around some more.

Here was my signal chain:

A Jupiter 80 and an Artis running L+R into a Samson SM10.The Spacestation is fed from the SM10s stereo monitor send, FOH is coming from the mains out.

The SS was sitting atop a Roland KCW1. I plugged in the sub for a bit but it sounded like arse, too rumbly no matter where I set the controls on the Roland.

I used the song play mode on the J80 so I could alter the SS controls while it reproduced the material.

 

The width does work, O sound mono and one dimensional, starting at 12 brings the stereo spread.For some reason I had to crank to 2 o'clock for my test, YMMV.

The mid and high controls did not seem to produce a drastic effect but allowed some tone changes. I will see what they do on the gigs this week-end.

The sound is well balanced , although I am not kicking LH bass I did try some drum patches and the bass drum sounded full and had a good thump.

 

Gain and volume: this is what I am grappling with.In my living room it was adequate but if I increased the volumes still staying out of the red on the SM10 I was clipping the SS.I think I still have to adjust my gain structures and even out the patch levels in the boards(something you gotta do anyway, I know)The Gain was set at 12 o'clock on the SS.

 

I hope the volume will be adequate in a live setting. Someone quoted Aspen as saying the "other" band members will not have to play as loud, but if you have deaf guitarists nothing will help.

 

The fit and finish are very nice, no problems with knobs, cabinet or trim.No rattle was detected.The handle strap on top seems well placed for transporting.It is heavy but not awkward to move.I will be looking for a bag or cover for it.

 

More tomorrow morning or if I feel froggy, tonight when I come home from the gig.

 

[mate stubb]

Hasn't volume from these things always been a problem?

[HAMEGZ]

Hasn't volume from these things always been a problem?

 

Yes reading other pre v3 owners comments, yes.

 

180 watts tri-amped and 100 watts full range are the listed ratings. I will see how it falls out tonight with a 4 piece group. We are pretty tight on stage so dont have to cover a lot, plus I am also in their floor monitors, so basically its for me.

 

I really want this to work,

[ADino]

Have you tried AP thru it yet?

[Al Coda]

Here was my signal chain:

A Jupiter 80 and an Artis running L+R into a Samson SM10.The Spacestation is fed from the SM10s stereo monitor send,

 

Please do us (and probably Aspen too) a favour:

 

Take the Kurzweil Artis, connect it directly to the SSV3 and please play:

 

a)

some acoustic piano

b)

some Rhodes with and without stereo tremolo

c)

some Wurli

d)

2 KB3 organ patches you like most, 1 w/ single leslie, the other w/ double leslie ...

e)

a soft polysynth pad incl. stereo chorus/delay/reverb FX

f)

a stringensemble (Strings ROM) pad using reverb only

 

Please tell us if that all worked well, or, when you´re willing to do and have the time and occasion, please do some recordings on your DAW.

 

Because it´s not clear what level comes out of the Samson SM10´s stereo MON send on the back (the manual doesn´t tell) it can be the output level is too hot for the SSV3´s stereo inputs.

Was the pre-fader MON send pot of the channel(s) at 12:00h too?

 

I wondered if SSV3 are balanced (TRS) +4dB line ins or if these are -10dB unbalanced (TS) inputs (what I guess they are).

Are they?

What happens when you lower the gain level of SSV3 to something between 0 and 12:00h and crank up the (stereo) MON send on the desired SM10 input channel instead going higher on the SSV3?

 

A.C.

[AnotherScott]

Mine is rated 100 + 100 W and the new one doesn't seem to have much more at 100 + 100, with 40 + 40 for mid/highs.

Though even with the same wattage, a design can be louder if it uses a more efficient speaker. Comparing wattages alone doesn't tell you how loud something will be.

[Al Coda]

Comparing wattages alone doesn't tell you how loud something will be.

 

Correct.

According to Eminence specs the "sensitivity" of the Eminence Acoustinator (front) speaker is 90.8dB.

Not very loud if they mean SPL@1W/1mtr (3feet).

The 6.5" side speaker won´t be much better I think.

 

But it all could be loud enough to be a keyboard monitor w/ the cab in a distance of 3-6 feet IMO.

Just only for the keyboardplayer, not the band and not the audience.

 

A.C.

[cphollis]

Waiting for more data points, but I'm starting to think of this as a dandy practice amp

[garnermike]

Leo---that's my usual set up: GT MKII with MS KT-80 off the sub jack. It's terrific.

[garnermike]

My GTubes MK11 is listed at 100 x 100 watts, but it cuts through band "din" and wall-of-sound like a knife. With these sorts of units, me thinx wattage is overrated. With the KT-80 out of the sub jack, I have never had to run the MKII over 2/3's, and I play in a fairly loud band that plays in larger venues and even outdoors.

[garnermike]

I think the original SpaceStation MK1 is different from my MK11. Have never had lack of volume issues. But of course I always have some other amp connected to it via the sub jack (done for bottom/grunt, not volume so much).

[Aspen]

"I wondered if SSV3 are balanced (TRS) +4dB line ins or if these are -10dB unbalanced (TS) inputs (what I guess they are).

Are they?"

Regarding the V.3 input sensitivity; our spec sheet states "-10dBu to +10dBu. Not typical, but neither was out goal for accommodating a wide range of stereo engines from the low level headphone jack of an iPod, to the hot instrument levels of a keyboard, to the even hotter line levels of a mixer... which if not reset will overload the V.3 if you were using +4 line level amps. I suggest setting the V.3 Level around 1-2 o'clock and bring up your mixer levels until you hit the limits of the V.3.

Regarding "balanced inputs", I saw no need for the added expense to my PCB, or for the more expensive cables. I am a "bang for buck designer; no bang here. BTW, none of these "stereo engines" I mentioned above either have, or need, balanced outputs in the applications for which the V.3 was designed.

I have enjoyed following this discussion thread. So many sharp folks here asking the right questions, and getting the right answers. As my CPS (formerly SFX) line has been (sadly) off the market for over 6 years, I really want thank the many MK2 users for sharing their MK2 experiences and answering many of these question on my behalf...it means so much more coming from you. Trust me; all your comments, (+/-), will be heard, and will be most helpful as I bring the Center Point Stereo product back to life.

[16251]

"I wondered if SSV3 are balanced (TRS) +4dB line ins or if these are -10dB unbalanced (TS) inputs (what I guess they are).

Are they?"

Regarding the V.3 input sensitivity; our spec sheet states "-10dBu to +10dBu. Not typical, but neither was out goal for accommodating a wide range of stereo engines from the low level headphone jack of an iPod, to the hot instrument levels of a keyboard, to the even hotter line levels of a mixer... which if not reset will overload the V.3 if you were using +4 line level amps. I suggest setting the V.3 Level around 1-2 o'clock and bring up your mixer levels until you hit the limits of the V.3.

Regarding "balanced inputs", I saw no need for the added expense to my PCB, or for the more expensive cables. I am a "bang for buck designer; no bang here. BTW, none of these "stereo engines" I mentioned above either have, or need, balanced outputs in the applications for which the V.3 was designed.

I have enjoyed following this discussion thread. So many sharp folks here asking the right questions, and getting the right answers. As my CPS (formerly SFX) line has been (sadly) off the market for over 6 years, I really want thank the many MK2 users for sharing their MK2 experiences and answering many of these question on my behalf...it means so much more coming from you. Trust me; all your comments, (+/-), will be heard, and will be most helpful as I bring the Center Point Stereo product back to life.

Thanks for joining the discussion.

[drawback]

Welcome to KC, Aspen!

 

Hasn't volume from these things always been a problem?

 

Yes reading other pre v3 owners comments, yes.

 

180 watts tri-amped and 100 watts full range are the listed ratings. I will see how it falls out tonight with a 4 piece group. We are pretty tight on stage so dont have to cover a lot, plus I am also in their floor monitors, so basically its for me.

 

I really want this to work,

 

Ditto, H&E. Looking forward to your real-world post.

[Al Coda]

Regarding the V.3 input sensitivity; our spec sheet states "-10dBu to +10dBu. Not typical, but neither was out goal for accommodating a wide range of stereo engines from the low level headphone jack of an iPod, to the hot instrument levels of a keyboard, to the even hotter line levels of a mixer... which if not reset will overload the V.3 if you were using +4 line level amps. I suggest setting the V.3 Level around 1-2 o'clock and bring up your mixer levels until you hit the limits of the V.3.

Regarding "balanced inputs", I saw no need for the added expense to my PCB, or for the more expensive cables. I am a "bang for buck designer; no bang here. BTW, none of these "stereo engines" I mentioned above either have, or need, balanced outputs in the applications for which the V.3 was designed.

I have enjoyed following this discussion thread. So many sharp folks here asking the right questions, and getting the right answers.

 

Hello and thx for chiming in here !

 

let´s explain what was irritating in your specs:

 

"STEREO 1/4" phone jacks for instrument line level signals"

 

I´m in europe and a stereo 1/4" phone jack here is a TRS phone jack.

Because you said "jacks" which is the plural of jack, I had the impression we get a pair of 1/4" TRS phone jacks for ONE stereo input.

So, if that WERE the case, that were a stereo balanced line level input (typically +4dB level).

 

But now I know it isn´t and that´s no biggie for me even more and more of todays keyboard instruments come w/ balanced XLR stereo outputs.

P.ex. my Kurzweil PC361 has 4 balanced stereo outputs, a Roland RD800 has 2 as well as the Kawai MP7 and MP11 digital stage pianos.

There´s definitely an advantage for longer cable runs if cables are balanced and there´s also a higher S/N ratio.

 

Anyway, most of my keyboards and modules are unbalanced and my mixers offer both, balanced and unbalanced outputs.

I also don´t see very long cable runs between my keyboard rig and the SSV3.

For some potential customers, lack of balanced inputs might be a dealbreaker and for future design of eventually larger cabs,- if I were you,- I´d consider balanced inputs together w/ unbalanced ones.

 

Last question:

 

Your SSV3 "subwoofer output is:

 

mono or stereo, unbalanced and already (LP) filtered or fullrange ?

 

I´m asking because many subwoofers come w/ a stereo input, get LP filtered signal from their own electronics and bypass the stereo signal to the Mid/Hi satelites via parallel outputs.

 

Trust me; all your comments, (+/-), will be heard, and will be most helpful as I bring the Center Point Stereo product back to life.

 

I follow the evolution of your products since day one,- SFX100, SFX mkII and now V3.

I appreciate V3 isn´t vaporware and I think the idea of a single cab delivering a stereo panorama is excellent.

In fact we all had the dream coming w/ a single small cab and getting full stereo sound.

 

In europe I never had a chance to buy one of these cabs.

Do you consider finding a distributor for europe,- or in germany perhaps ?

Will you possibly appear at winter NAMM and upcoming Musikmesse 2015 ?

 

all the best and good luck w/ the product

 

A.C.

[HAMEGZ]

Initial report from last night.

 

The SS was sitting about 5-6 feet behind me on a counter-top about 5 feet high.Initially pointed 45 degrees from me firing to the bandstand but I moved it to fire directly behind me.

 

I could hear adequately over the on stage volume and the band members could hear my keys, although the were augmented by a foldback into two floor monitors .

 

I still had a bit of overload from some patches, like rhodes and wurli ep , BUT, I still have to adjust relative patch volumes per instrument.Other voices did not overload.

 

Stereo rotary sounded wonderful and seemed to come from everywhere.I did notice on stereo AC piano patches the sound was thin until I adjusted its pan left of center(25 on the Jupiter pan), I dont have time to drag out the rig until tomorrow or next week, but I will pursue it more.I DON'T think its an issue with the SS so its downstream from there.

 

Another gig tonight, different stage plot, tighter grouping and the SS will be very close to me .

 

I will try to make some recordings when its back home, all I have is a Tascam pocket recorder, although it does 44.1 wave and stereo.

 

Tonights rig will be the SK2 and MoxF6 so I will be trying the Hammond rotary and the Yammys EPs