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#2835252 - 02/12/17 02:51 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: davedoerfler]
cphollis Online   content
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Heads up to all Nord AP players and SSv3 owners.

Check out the new Studio Grand 3D sample. I spent all afternoon A/B-ing in my studio, and it sounds 20% better than any other piano sample on the SSv3.

It makes sense to me. The SSv3 sends X+Y out the front, X-Y out the side. Well, there's not a lot of X-Y with most Nord piano samples unless you process them with chorus, reverb, other voices, etc.

This sample has tons of X-Y content, so it sits in the stereo field so much nicer than any of my other piano samples. Worth trying out for yourself.
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#2835290 - 02/12/17 05:32 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: cphollis]
Brad Kaenel Offline
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Originally Posted By: cphollis
Check out the new Studio Grand 3D sample.


Did you mean the Royal Grand 3D?
http://www.nordkeyboards.com/sound-libraries/nord-piano-library/grand-pianos/royal-grand-3d
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#2835308 - 02/12/17 07:41 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Brad Kaenel]
cphollis Online   content
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Loc: Massachussets, Florida
Sorry, yep, that's the one. My bad. Getting old and forgetful.

Anyway, played a gig with it tonight. Sounded so much better than my other Nord piano samples, it wasn't fair. Sat well in the mix, fuller stereo effect, the other musos commented, etc.

I think I've found my newest go-to AP when using the SSv3. It was like getting an upgraded amp. It's that good, at least to my ears.

Anyone else?
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#2835397 - 02/13/17 08:39 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Dave Bryce]
trebleclef Offline
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Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 7
Originally Posted By: Dave Bryce
My original v3 was from the run where the jacks on the back panel aren't sealed so I always had to stick a 1/4" plug in the "sub" out to keep the amp from farting when it got hit hard with bass notes...


Dave, can you explain this a little more? I thought I head read this entire thread, but don't remember seeing anything about this, and I have that problem with the low end "farting" when the volume is pretty loud. What is this plug you're using, and how does it help?

Thanks,

-Mike

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#2835400 - 02/13/17 08:55 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: trebleclef]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: trebleclef
Originally Posted By: Dave Bryce
My original v3 was from the run where the jacks on the back panel aren't sealed so I always had to stick a 1/4" plug in the "sub" out to keep the amp from farting when it got hit hard with bass notes...


Dave, can you explain this a little more? I thought I head read this entire thread, but don't remember seeing anything about this, and I have that problem with the low end "farting" when the volume is pretty loud. What is this plug you're using, and how does it help?

It's actually a really simple fix. The jacks on the back plate aren't sealed...so if there's nothing plugged into the Sub out, some of the air generated from the amp working will escape from the port, making that farting sound. If you use the Sub out, you probably won't encounter it.

Easy to remedy - just cut a 1/4" jack off the end of a broken cord and stick it in the sub out...or just plug one end of an unused cable in there.

dB
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#2835401 - 02/13/17 09:05 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Dave Bryce]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dave Bryce
Easy to remedy - just cut a 1/4" jack off the end of a broken cord and stick it in the sub out...or just plug one end of an unused cable in there.

or if you don't have a broken cord or want something that won't dangle, a 1/4" adapter plug (i.e. RCA-to-1/4" , mini-to-1/4")
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#2835429 - 02/13/17 11:35 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: AnotherScott]
Karl Sutton Offline
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I tried the Nord 3D piano on regular wedge monitors - awful! But it does sound amazing in headphones!
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#2835529 - 02/13/17 08:07 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: AnotherScott]
trebleclef Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 7
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Dave Bryce
Easy to remedy - just cut a 1/4" jack off the end of a broken cord and stick it in the sub out...or just plug one end of an unused cable in there.

or if you don't have a broken cord or want something that won't dangle, a 1/4" adapter plug (i.e. RCA-to-1/4" , mini-to-1/4")


Thank you Dave and AnotherScott, anxious to try this and see if it helps!

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#2835533 - 02/13/17 08:34 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: trebleclef]
Bill Spencer Offline
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Registered: 05/15/11
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Loc: Northern California
Or you can find someone really small to keep their pinky in there. Try Hans Brinker; he has experience in this sort of thing.


Edited by Bill Spencer (02/13/17 08:34 PM)

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#2835697 - 02/14/17 04:10 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Bill Spencer]
trebleclef Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 7
Originally Posted By: Bill Spencer
Or you can find someone really small to keep their pinky in there. Try Hans Brinker; he has experience in this sort of thing.


He he. Don't know the reference! Googled it. Still not sure. smile Sorry mod, went OT... now, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

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#2835707 - 02/14/17 04:48 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: trebleclef]
Al Coda Offline
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Originally Posted By: trebleclef

He he. Don't know the reference! Googled it. Still not sure. smile


... the story of the little Dutch boy who plugs a dike with his finger.

laugh

A.C.

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#2835918 - 02/15/17 11:33 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Al Coda]
HAM&EGZ Offline
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Originally Posted By: Al Coda
Originally Posted By: trebleclef

He he. Don't know the reference! Googled it. Still not sure. smile


... the story of the little Dutch boy who plugs a dike with his finger.

laugh

A.C.



Oh boy could I get a TOS banned........
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#2836904 - 02/19/17 07:55 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: HAM&EGZ]
cphollis Online   content
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Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 1997
Loc: Massachussets, Florida
Yes, this thread has been beaten to death, but I still get pinged regularly by folks who are still struggling with this amp.

So I wrote a short blog post to summarize what I've learned so far:

http://chucksblog.typepad.com/late_bloomer/2017/02/dialing-in-the-cps-spacestation-v3.html
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#2836910 - 02/19/17 08:22 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: cphollis]
davedoerfler Online   content
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Excellent blog post, Chuck.
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#2836953 - 02/20/17 06:42 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: cphollis]
Al Coda Offline
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Registered: 08/31/08
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Originally Posted By: cphollis

So I wrote a short blog post to summarize what I've learned so far:

http://chucksblog.typepad.com/late_bloomer/2017/02/dialing-in-the-cps-spacestation-v3.html


Isn΄t it the HF tweeter is separate and the midrange driver/horn is what΄s inside the coax speaker?
You might have that accidently mistaken.

Great article nonetheless !

A.C.

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#2840958 - 03/11/17 06:26 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Dave Bryce]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11207
Originally Posted By: Dave Bryce
However, there's a muddiness and congestion to the midrange that wasn't there before which is especially noticeable on - you guessed it - acoustic piano sounds.
...
I wish I wasn't the only one on the forum that has heard both units. To that end, if anyone from the area wants to bring an original v3 over to A/B, I'd be glad to do that.

I hope someone takes you up on that! Though also, I'd be curious to see yours even put up against another new unit, just to see if there could possibly be something wrong with yours. Third possibility: Speakers are sometimes known to "break in" over time. Is it possible that your new SS sounds like your old one did when you first got it, but not as good as the old one did after you'd played it for a few dozen hours? If you've used it a bunch, I wonder if it might be sounding any better now. Or if you haven't used it much, maybe there would be some benefit from sending some noise to it for x hours. (I'm not convinced about there being that much difference from speaker break-in, but I'm not ready to rule out the possibility either.)

In my time with the original v3, I found I could not get the AP sounding the way I wanted without a bit of parametric EQ adjustment from my board. (I used my ZXa1 for reference.) If the new one is indeed different, but can likewise be adjusted with just a slightly different EQ tweak, then, to me, it would end up being 6 of one, half dozen of the other, except the half dozen weighs less. ;-)
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#2841195 - 03/12/17 03:11 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: AnotherScott]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Dave Bryce
However, there's a muddiness and congestion to the midrange that wasn't there before which is especially noticeable on - you guessed it - acoustic piano sounds.
...
I wish I wasn't the only one on the forum that has heard both units. To that end, if anyone from the area wants to bring an original v3 over to A/B, I'd be glad to do that.

I hope someone takes you up on that!

The offer stands. It be ideal if someone does it before I have to send the Nord Piano back, and I did just send the review in.


Quote:
Though also, I'd be curious to see yours even put up against another new unit, just to see if there could possibly be something wrong with yours.

We actually listened to another new unit at Aspen's place before I took the one I did.

It doesn't sound like there's anything wrong with it - it just sounds different for the reasons I stated. The most noticeable thing to me is the strain/change in sound and balance at higher volumes - almost sounds ike there's a bit of compression happening.

Still sounds like an SS though - don't get me wrong. idk


Quote:
Third possibility: Speakers are sometimes known to "break in" over time. Is it possible that your new SS sounds like your old one did when you first got it, but not as good as the old one did after you'd played it for a few dozen hours?

I'm hip - I work with a high end speaker manufacturer, and I'm all about the break-in. thu

The v5 has been through a bunch of playing at my home and on two gigs now. Still sounds the same to me....and, as previously mentioned, a few band members noticed as well.


Quote:
Or if you haven't used it much, maybe there would be some benefit from sending some noise to it for x hours.

Using noise is not an ideal to break a speaker in - no reason to do that to the HF driver. A low pitch, low amplitude sine wave is a better choice.

Personally, I prefer playing Actual Music (iTunes on shuffle) through a speaker to break them in.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
In my time with the original v3, I found I could not get the AP sounding the way I wanted without a bit of parametric EQ adjustment from my board. (I used my ZXa1 for reference.) If the new one is indeed different, but can likewise be adjusted with just a slightly different EQ tweak, then, to me, it would end up being 6 of one, half dozen of the other, except the half dozen weighs less. ;-)

I did tweak the EQ - the mid control needed to be set a touch differently than on the v3.

Like I said, I thought my problem with the mid was because of the NP3 I was reviewing at first until I took the Nord up to my studio. When I ran the PC3's AP through the v5, I noticed a slight difference there too...but most of the other sounds are just fine.

dB
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#2841232 - 03/12/17 07:32 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Dave Bryce]
cphollis Online   content
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Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 1997
Loc: Massachussets, Florida
Here's what I've found: with a bit of work, APs through the SSv3 sound acceptable. Not stellar, just acceptable. Every other instrument sounds like the bomb: EPs, B3 w/leslie sim, synths, samples, etc.

One small amp on an amp stand, perfect for all the small gigs and rehearsals.

Quick story? Just started up with a new band. They play LOUD, that's just what they do. No commentary from me is going to change it. All sorts of questions about the SSv3, because it's LOUD and it does STEREO.

The call it the magic juju amp.
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#2841435 - 03/13/17 02:24 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: cphollis]
Synthaholic Offline
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Does anyone know of any guitarists using the SSv3 to take full advantage of their pedalboard wonders?
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#2841523 - 03/13/17 11:42 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Synthaholic]
zxcvbnm098 Offline
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Dave, PM me if you want me to bring down my SSv3. I've got Dave Ferris' old one.

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#2841551 - 03/14/17 05:24 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: zxcvbnm098]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: zxcvbnm098
Dave, PM me if you want me to bring down my SSv3. I've got Dave Ferris' old one.

Any time you wanna come up to TO, let me know!

dB
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#2841582 - 03/14/17 08:39 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Al Coda]
hardware Offline
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Loc: Las Vegas
Originally Posted By: Al Coda

Isn΄t it the HF tweeter is separate and the midrange driver/horn is what΄s inside the coax speaker?
You might have that accidently mistaken.
A.C.

I actually get nice high end turning down the tweeter.
It tends to make APs like PianoTeq sound better.
I detune and do unison per note on the Upright.
It's the lowest frequency of the tweeter that emphasizes those edits too much.
Used an LPF but it affected the 6.5 side firing speaker, tried a parametric, no joy, just turned the sucker down to a 9 OClock position and boosted the 6.5" to 3 OClock.

No more over emphasized detuning.

It was as annoying as the old Yamaha Electric Grand.
Always had at least one String with false beats
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#2841796 - 03/15/17 05:23 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: hardware]
TimA Offline
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So what's a realistic omnisphere mic? I googled it and all I got was you and Spectrasonics...
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#2841807 - 03/15/17 05:56 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: TimA]
AnotherScott Offline
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Well, Realistic is Radio Shack's own brand... which would probably go well with a Magnus C350 organ...

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#2841938 - 03/15/17 11:59 AM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Dave Bryce]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dave Bryce
Originally Posted By: zxcvbnm098
Dave, PM me if you want me to bring down my SSv3. I've got Dave Ferris' old one.

Any time you wanna come up to TO, let me know!

Okay, we just took a listen to both, side by side in the same room. Brother zxcvbnm098 will post his own impressions, but here are mine:

The difference is actually less subtle than I thought. There's no question that the v5 has a congestion or muddiness in the midrange which is not present in the v3, and that the dynamics are limited almost as if there's some sort of compression on the output.

Also it was interesting to note that the power handling is apparently different, which I hadn't noticed previously. We matched the levels of every knob at one point, and the volumes were quite different - v3 is louder than v5.

We went as simple as possible - my PC3 plugged directly into the amp with high quality cables. No mixer, no processing - nothing.

Both amps are still here, so I'll be able to send some more time digging in. If anyone else wants to come check it out, feel free to PM me.

dB
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#2841942 - 03/15/17 12:06 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Dave Bryce]
timwat Offline
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db,

Earlier in the thread, you had mentioned v5 seemed to have better LF output than v3. Is that still the case after your A/B shootout?

And...except for that possible improvement (and the schlep factor), it sounds like v5 has some noticeable disadvantages vis a vis v3:

1. MR congestion
2. "compressed" dynamics
3. lower apparent SPL
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#2841944 - 03/15/17 12:22 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: timwat]
zxcvbnm098 Offline
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I would echo Dave's comments. He has much better ears than me, but I would say that the v3 just has a rounder, fuller, livelier sound in the crucial area most of us play in. Punchier would be a another was of saying it? Certainly more pleasing to my ears.

I'm glad I went and let Dave play. So much easier to have another player so I could listen objectively. And yes, the older unit is louder.

Oh, and don't play the Nord Piano 3. The damn thing is lovely.....


Edited by zxcvbnm098 (03/15/17 12:22 PM)

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#2841968 - 03/15/17 01:35 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: timwat]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: timwat
db,

Earlier in the thread, you had mentioned v5 seemed to have better LF output than v3. Is that still the case after your A/B shootout?

What I was talking about is that you have to plug the sub out on the v3 to get it to not fart. Once you do that, the LF on the V3 is just fine. We did do that today with the older unit.

Overall though, I'd say the v3 was the one with the more full low end. When I hit low piano notes on the v3, they sounded more alive. Maybe it was just another artifact of the "compression" thing - I dunno. DId Aspen say he changed the internal amps? I don;t recall, and I don't want to go picking back through the thread to try and find it... eek

Now that I have both here, I can test a bit more.

Quote:
And...except for that possible improvement (and the schlep factor), it sounds like v5 has some noticeable disadvantages vis a vis v3:

1. MR congestion
2. "compressed" dynamics
3. lower apparent SPL

Yup. Only v5 advantages I see so far are the lower weight and the fact that the jacks are now sealed.

dB
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#2841979 - 03/15/17 01:56 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: zxcvbnm098]
davedoerfler Online   content
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Originally Posted By: zxcvbnm098
Oh, and don't play the Nord Piano 3. The damn thing is lovely.....


I'll take you up on that. So how long are you gonna let your amp live in TO?
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#2841980 - 03/15/17 02:00 PM Re: Head's-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back [Re: Dave Bryce]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11207
Originally Posted By: Dave Bryce
Originally Posted By: timwat
And...except for that possible improvement (and the schlep factor), it sounds like v5 has some noticeable disadvantages vis a vis v3:

1. MR congestion
2. "compressed" dynamics
3. lower apparent SPL

Yup. Only v5 advantages I see so far are the lower weight and the fact that the jacks are now sealed.

dB

So if you had to do it again, would you

a) stick with the v3 at the higher weight
b) go with the v5 anyway because, to you, the advantages of the v3 are not worth the extra weight
c) skip the SS entirely, because the v3 is too heavy for you, and the v5 is too sonically compromised for you?
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