Yamaha P-525 digital piano announced

[pjd]

Yamaha announced a successor to the P-515 -- the new P-525:

 

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical_instruments/pianos/p_series/p-525/index.html

 

USA MAP is $1,600 and it is popping up on retailer sites for pre-order.

 

A few initial thoughts, including the 515 vs. 525 differences that I could spot (before going to bed 😀):

 

http://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-p-525-digital-piano-announced/

 

The biggie is GrandTouch-S (wood) action instead of NWX.

 

-- pj

 

[Doerfler]

that's a good looking "portable" piano. Hopefully will be available to try out soon

[ElmerJFudd]

 

[stoken6]

5-pin midi, very good.

 

Cheers, Mike

[Adan]

I'm glad they're keeping this great DP slab in the line up and up to date.  yamaha doesn't waste much design effort on cosmetics, but the quality and bang for buck on this thing is segment-leading.  Is this really a different action than is in the P515?

[pawelsz]

GrandTouch-S is different. Pivot length for black keys is increased (black key hinges are moved deeper nside the board) and the internal construction is noticeable depart from all GH, GHE, BHE, NW, NW-STAGE and NWX actions. I have played CLP-735 (which has non-wood version) briefly in the shop and it was definitely lighter to press down, seemed also more sensitive on same touch settings, and longer pivot was easily noticeable on black keys which were easier to play. Grand pianos also have this feature. Unfortunately I couldn't compare side-by-side with my P-515. I am glad they also added registration memory in P-525, this is quite missing on P-515. Anyway I think I won't upgrade, even if it is very tempting because external dimensions are exactly the same! No need for new case for new board!

 

 

 

[konaboy]

great to see a new model.

that "hole" on the top panel though, presumably for a usb stick that noone will ever use. what were they thinking? 

electric pianos, sound the same old, awash in effects.  it´s not yc level, quite clearly.

[Keyboardplayer]

Pianos sound amazing. Price is competitive. First the Finger Drum Pads and now the P-525 digital piano. I'm assuming the Montage M will be next in line to be launched. Word has it, on October 9th. Time will tell. Yamaha is holding a Tech Talk on October 10th. They'll be talking about the Montage M, so it makes sense it would launch on October 9th. Here is the link regarding Tech Talk...

 

https://www.yamahasynth.com/learn/events/tech-talk-s04e05

[pjd]

Thanks for posting those pictures comparing actions. I was just about to chase after that info!

 

I missed one significant upgrade last night. Yamaha redesigned the speaker box and are now using a digital FIR crossover filter. I've been playing through a Stagepas 100BTR with an FIR filter -- good sound. (I need to review that little thing...)

 

I updated my initial blog post (link above) after reading through the manual.

 

BTW, I'm seriously shopping for a home DP and P-525 is on my short list. $2,000 street for slab, stand, bench and pedal unit is decent value. My interest is not academic. 😃

 

All the best -- pj

 

Music technology blog: sandsoftwaresound.net

 

[GovernorSilver]

Can't wait to try this in ye olde fave DC music store.

 

Even with the wooden keys it's lighter than my old P-200 that weighed in at over 60 lbs.

 

I like that it's compatible with the new FC35 compact triple pedal - no need for a bulky stand plus stand attachment with built-in triple pedal.

[ElmerJFudd]

This padawan has a lovely digital piano and a vivid imagination!

 

 

[D. Gauss]

bluetooth audio in, but no bluetooth midi?  Grrrr. That's annoying.

[Dockeys]

11 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

This padawan has a lovely digital piano and a vivid imagination!

 

 

That video is pretty bad to be fair. I laughed at that "524 attractive voices" in the spec. If it doesn't have attractive voices I'm not interested. Who writes the script for these? Nice looking board though, but 22kg is not on my list unless they throw in a roadie. 

[Mark Schmieder]

I hope someone has Bosendorfer examples soon, as the CFX examples make me cringe (so harsh sounding!), but I am otherwise interested in trying out this board due to the new keybed action.

[jerrythek]

On 10/5/2023 at 1:41 PM, Dave Ferris said:

I would like to hear if the tone is any less harsh and grating, then the 515, coming through gigging speakers (it's fine through my Senn HD650s) starting at A6 up to C7. That area is hard for me to take on gigs

Yes, the upper end seems like they basically ran out of sample memory, and so have incredibly short and harsh samples up there. The rest of the range is nice to play.

 

[Justin Havu]

Hmm.  This could possibly be a worthy replacement for our church's aging CP300, which is an absolute bear to play action-wise.  I was thinking about the 515, but that action just feels way too heavy and unplayable under my hands.  I got a chance to try one a year ago, and I just didn't get along with it at all.  It sounded great to my ears, but it was just as difficult to play as the CP300.

[stoken6]

13 hours ago, Justin Havu said:

This could possibly be a worthy replacement for our church's aging CP300, which is an absolute bear to play action-wise.  I was thinking about the 515, but that action just feels way too heavy and unplayable under my hands. 

Have you tried Kawai? When I played a ES110 I found the action very light (for a hammer), but (or rather "and") very playable.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Bobadohshe]

In both videos, the sound bummed me out instantly. It doesn't do it for me.

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, Bobadohshe said:

In both videos, the sound bummed me out instantly. It doesn't do it for me.

Vs what is the question.  An acoustic piano?  Yes, of course.

Vs. other digital pianos from Yamaha?  Roland?  Korg?  Kurzweil?  

For someone who doesn't own a slab with speakers it's as good a pick as any of them.  Possibly better if you prefer their actions.  

Something to replace a Montage or a CP4?   Not really, no.  Just a refresh of the previous model. 

Making a jump to compete with a 130gb software piano?  Nope, it's not that either.  They don't seem to want to do this yet.  Probably because even if their AWM2 compression reduced the size by 50% they'd still need to stick 65gb of storage in there just for one piano to achieve that level of detail.  

 

[DmitryKo]

 

2 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

 even if their AWM2 compression reduced the size by 50% they'd still need to stick 65gb of storage in there just for one piano to achieve that level of detail.  

 

Yamaha uses a variant of LPC (Linear Predictive Coding) scheme with a compression ratio of ~1:2.5 in their AWM2 products like digital/stage pianos and synthesizers - so for example the Montage uses a 4 GByte Flash memory chip, where 2.25 GBytes are reserved for preset ROM samples (an equivalent of 5.67 GBytes in the 16 bit linear PCM format), and 1.75 GBytes are reserved for user samples (uncompressed PCM). I believe they never made their proprietary coding algorithm available to outside parties, so user-installable sample libaries are uncompressed except for the few ones made in cooperation with Yamaha, like the Montage Expanded.

[GovernorSilver]

Assuming the above post was not actually intended for the Montage M thread...

 

Maybe there's some crossover between the Montage samples and P525 samples but I'll be primarily listening for the reported harshness on the higher notes of the acoustic piano presets when I get around to trying out the P525.   

 

Ye olde  fave store supposedly also carries the Kawai ES-920 and Roland FP-90X, which are among the competitors in this price range.   Looking forward to trying those too.  I'd prefer hearing the internal speakers of each of these pianos in person to relying on Youtube audio to judge the sound quality.

[Keyboardplayer]

On 10/5/2023 at 6:29 PM, D. Gauss said:

bluetooth audio in, but no bluetooth midi?  Grrrr. That's annoying.

It also has Bluetooth midi. It's shown in the newest video, i.e. the first one under VIDEOS.

 

To be fair, I only listened to the first video yesterday. Today I watched and listened to the other video and I admit the sound is definitely not as good as the first one I listened to. The second video was obviously recorded in a different setting and probably using different audio recording equipment. Yamaha representative Gabriel Aldort is playing the P-525 in the second video, if I'm not mistaken. If you were to buy the P-525 and you get it home and set it up along with the Pedal unit (LP-1, FC35) with a high quality external sound source, it will sound excellent, in my opinion. If you only use the internal speakers, that could hinder your overall experience. One of the big improvements is the key action has been upgraded from the NW-X to the GT-S. Once it arrives in stores, we'll be able to get a better picture of its overall strengths and weaknesses. My initial reaction was the first video demo sounded wonderful to my ears. PS: I listened through a pair of Mackie HR824 MK2 near-field monitors. They have a pretty flat response, and they're even THX certified, so I think I was able to accurately judge the sound in that regard. Although, YouTube does have a tendency to compress the audio in the videos, or so I've been told. Therefore, your mileage may vary.     

[Bobadohshe]

4 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Vs what is the question.  An acoustic piano?  Yes, of course.

Vs. other digital pianos from Yamaha?  Roland?  Korg?  Kurzweil?  

For someone who doesn't own a slab with speakers it's as good a pick as any of them.  Possibly better if you prefer their actions.  

Something to replace a Montage or a CP4?   Not really, no.  Just a refresh of the previous model. 

Making a jump to compete with a 130gb software piano?  Nope, it's not that either.  They don't seem to want to do this yet.  Probably because even if their AWM2 compression reduced the size by 50% they'd still need to stick 65gb of storage in there just for one piano to achieve that level of detail.  

 

I agree with this 100%. I guess what I'm trying to say is I would have expected a bit more advancement in this area in 2023. Sounds similar to what you could get 15 years ago.

[jazzpiano88]

44 minutes ago, Dave Ferris said:

Why can't they come up with another "CP4" ?!

 

No kidding!  They would call it the CP3: same great action, better sounds, better UI and button layout, same weight.  

 

And then when they improve the CP3, they can call that the CP2.

 

You know... like this:   CP300 -> CP33 -> CP1 -> CP5/50 -> CP4/40 -> CP88/73 -> CP3/30 -> CP2/20

 

Here is the marketing slide that I envision:

 

 

[16251]

[ElmerJFudd]

2 hours ago, JazzPiano88 said:

 

No kidding!  They would call it the CP3: same great action, better sounds, better UI and button layout, same weight.  

 

And then when they improve the CP3, they can call that the CP2.

 

You know... like this:   CP300 -> CP33 -> CP1 -> CP5/50 -> CP4/40 -> CP88/73 -> CP3/30 -> CP2/20

 

Here is the marketing slide that I envision:

 

 

That is one weird chart. 
 

CP88 is 41lbs but compact. 
 

The CP4 was only 2.5lbs lighter at 38.5lbs.  

 

Sounds like it’s entirely possible to shave some weight off Yamaha’s next stage slab and keep it compact carry. 

[pjd]

On 10/6/2023 at 3:22 AM, Dockeys said:

That video is pretty bad to be fair. I laughed at that "524 attractive voices" in the spec. If it doesn't have attractive voices I'm not interested. Who writes the script for these? Nice looking board though, but 22kg is not on my list unless they throw in a roadie. 

 

Yeah, that puff point caught my attention. The video actually says "542" -- which is, number 1, wrong. Number 2, 480 of those attractive voices are the XG sound set from the 1990s/2000s. My biggest beef with 515/525 is the lack of quality secondary sounds. Has me looking at the CSP models since I don't need a portable slab, i.e., furniture is OK in my case (home practice piano).

 

-- pj