"If it's too loud, you're too old....."

[shniggens]

That's what they tell me anyway when I tell them they are playing too loud. How do you get the imbeciles in your band to play quieter during practices? It's like the drummer and guitarist are in competition to be the first to go deaf. I may need to bow out. It's fun, but an average cover band is not worth getting tinnitus or hearing loss over....

[JamPro]

Wear ear protection.  Ask politely and repeatedly.  Yes, too often the best play is to retire and find other better music collaborators.

[stoken6]

You won't change them. They will allways, always be too loud.

 

Get IEMs or get out. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[bill5]

Yeah go find a band comprised of adults.

[shniggens]

1 minute ago, bill5 said:

Yeah go find a band comprised of adults.

Funny thing is we are all in our 50s 

[Paul Woodward]

4 minutes ago, shniggens said:

Funny thing is we are all in our 50s 

That’s no guarantee of maturity…

[HammondDave]

You can still be a juvenile imbecile at 50.  Get out. Ear protection and IEM’s is better than nothing, but you will still suffer damage. I have nearly constant tinnitus ringing and have worn custom ear protection all my life. I am about ready to quit one of my bands due to the volume. The other still struggles with stage volume, but is improving. 

[CEB]

Don’t work with amateurs. 

[Lindaru]

Huh?  What did you say?

🤣

I agree.  If they will not take the health of hearing into consideration for you and others (should there be someone else in the band dealing with this), it is time to move on.

In the meantime, hide their Marshall stack.
 

[benj2017]

I found this thread on TGP last week and it is pretty interesting/eye opening to hear the other side of this argument:  

 

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/big-rig-live-frustration-rant.2455747/

[shniggens]

1 hour ago, benj2017 said:

I found this thread on TGP last week and it is pretty interesting/eye opening to hear the other side of this argument:  

 

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/big-rig-live-frustration-rant.2455747/

That just solidifies my suspicion that guitarists are the main culprit

[K K]

While they are busy playing annoyingly loud, on your synth discreetly select a sine wave and let play C#6 at mid volume with infinite sustain (synth will continue to play the sound even after you don't touch the keys). When they stop playing, pretend you don't hear the C#6 and when someone says I hear a strange tone, tell him he probably destroyed his ears and now has permanent tinnitus because you told him earlier to turn his F volume down.

[bill5]

2 hours ago, benj2017 said:

I found this thread on TGP last week and it is pretty interesting/eye opening to hear the other side of this argument:  

 

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/big-rig-live-frustration-rant.2455747/

And what a surprise that is....not. I joined that site and left within about a week when the kiddies started spitting at me after I dared disagree with them or not put up with BS  from someone who for reasons I'll never know was held in high regard.

[wineandkeyz]

3 hours ago, shniggens said:

That's what they tell me anyway when I tell them they are playing too loud. How do you get the imbeciles in your band to play quieter during practices? It's like the drummer and guitarist are in competition to be the first to go deaf. I may need to bow out. It's fun, but an average cover band is not worth getting tinnitus or hearing loss over....

Sounds like it’s time to find another band. If your area is like most places I’ve lived, keyboard players are always in short supply, so you shouldn’t have too much trouble finding a better situation.

[Delaware Dave]

I left a band I STARTED 20 years ago because of concert loudness at practice and shows.  Unfortunately the damage is done to my ears.  I retired the band name and they just changed the name of the band, and so far have gone through 4 k/b players since i left. right now they are playing w/o keys.  3 of the k/b players have left because of stage volume. one actually texted me and wanted to know how i could have played with that stage volume for 20 years.  Both guitars have 100 watt marshall tube amps into a 4x12 cabinets, both start on 7 and are at 9  by the end of the night.  The bass player has a 700 watt bass head into two stacked 4x10 cabinets.  drummer is fully mic and has to come through separate monitors in order to hear himself on stage.  Ridiculous .....  

[KuruPrionz]

Been there, done that, LONG since done.

It's not a battle I care to fight. I was at a friend's party last week and halfway through the band's second song I was in my car and driving home. 

Beyond all the other sensible reasons not to damage your hearing, loud music simply does not sound as good.

I'm pretty much done playing with acoustic drummers. Hand percussion, cajon etc. can be fine. Electronic drums are cool if there is an agreement to keep the volume down.

So, I'd probably give notice "as of right now, y'all can keep being loud and I will be elsewhere."

[Mark Schmieder]

5 hours ago, shniggens said:

That's what they tell me anyway when I tell them they are playing too loud. How do you get the imbeciles in your band to play quieter during practices? It's like the drummer and guitarist are in competition to be the first to go deaf. I may need to bow out. It's fun, but an average cover band is not worth getting tinnitus or hearing loss over....

 

Wow. Noise levels have gone up and down over the decades, and also seem to vary by region. Considering how loud things were in the 60's, saying you're "too old" is really silly, as things got quieter (for a while) in the 80's. Orchestras aren't exactly quiet; some now arrange their section seating differently so that certain players aren't subjected to the loudest output from instruments known for causing tinnitus. 🙂

 

I find that the majority of musicians in NoVa play WAY LOUDER at gigs -- regardless of genre -- than California bands do. I wonder why? At rehearsals, also a bit true. Not my own bands, but ones I've heard and/or auditioned for. But even the bands that I'm in, are a bit louder than comparable bands back west.

[elif]

54 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

...I'm pretty much done playing with acoustic drummers. Hand percussion, cajon etc. can be fine. Electronic drums are cool if there is an agreement to keep the volume down...

 

I currently play regularly in a small venue with a croweded stage. The drummer is using sticks made of bundled rods or bamboo. These things:

 

 

The stage volume is the lowest of any band I've ever played in - high speaking volume.  He doesn't particularly like them because of the lack of rebound, but is quite willing to use them.  Maybe there will be some improvements made in this area.  We tried one tune with him using his regular 5B sticks.  Nope.  Back to the rods please.

 

That said and by comparison, I suppose we are not a loud band:

organ: C2D -> 122

bass: LHB into 12" Greenboy 2-way bass cab

guitar: Line six with an 8" speaker (can get loud!)

drums: 4-piece kit

horns: tenor & trombone

[ProfD]

That's why some bands require a benevolent dictatorship.

 

Someone has to be strong enough to tell the troops to turn down.😎

[HammondDave]

6 minutes ago, ProfD said:

That's why some bands require a benevolent dictatorship.

 

Someone has to be strong enough to tell the troops to turn down.😎

And that person always seems to be me

[Reezekeys]

What's even the point of playing loud at a rehearsal? Maybe I'm being silly but I always thought a rehearsal was for working out arrangements and making sure everyone is playing the right parts. I remember being at a rehearsal studio in NY years ago and the band Stuff was rehearsing in another room - someone cracked the door open and I peeked in. You could barely hear them, they were playing so quietly (and sounded great doing it too). Oh and BTW, yes I am too old!

[Docbop]

From all my years of playing and working for bands and in audio that volume seems have a relationship how good a musician they are.   First started noticing this doing PA work and how bands with really good musicians their stage volume wasn't that loud and the production company putting on the concert wanted the volume cranked.     I only worked for one band that was kinda loud they did what they could to keep things reasonable.   The guitarist had a full Marshall stack mainly for appearance, but had made a power soak for his Marshall head.   It was a pair of ceramic resistors used in tanks that he'd plug in to the second speaker output of the Marshall.   They looked like giant taquitos and I couldn't believe how hot they got during a set.   They would only last for a handful of gigs and the ceramic body of the resister would start breaking up and kill that resistor.    Today there are commercial power soaks if a guitarist wants to drive his amp, but not send all that power to the speakers. 

 

Personally my playing days were all as guitar or bass player.   I never like distortion pedals I prefered the sound of a small amp turned up.   Small amps aren't that loud, want more volume mic me.   I only had one amp I like the sound of but controlling the volume was hard.   A Fender Super Reverb.  Powerwise it was half that of a Twin Reverb, but it had four 10" speakers and that not only moved a lot of air, being 10" speakers they cut through in any band situation.   So not always the watts of the amp but how much speaker paper you have moving air. 

[harmonizer]

We had another gig with too high a stage volume last Friday night.

 

Traditional drum kits don't have a volume control, and the habit of many drummers is to purchase a snare that plays really loud when you whack it.

And then the bass players and then others set their volume, and "off you go"!

 

The drummer in our covers band is replacing his traditional "real" drum kit for an e-Kit at our next rehearsal.

If it works out in rehearsal, he'll be gigging with it too.

[niacin]

if it’s too loud for you it’s probably in part cause they’ve lost some of their hearing. I gig with a bass player who has lost a good deal of his hearing and turns up accordingly so he can hear himself. It’s gotten worse over the years and i now refuse to set up on his side of stage. If he gets any louder I’m out.

[shniggens]

5 minutes ago, niacin said:

if it’s too loud for you it’s probably in part cause they’ve lost some of their hearing. I gig with a bass player who has lost a good deal of his hearing and turns up accordingly so he can hear himself. It’s gotten worse over the years and i now refuse to set up on his side of stage. If he gets any louder I’m out.

It's true! Drummer is already hard of hearing

[bill5]

From what I hear Pete Townshend is almost completely deaf. Is anyone even a little surprised? 

 

I remember the first rock concert I went to and it was so loud my ears were ringing as we left the concert. Granted my hearing has always been sensitive to loud noises but still...fortunately I didn't go to too many of those!

[Stokely]

Could be hearing, but I think a lot of it is just a wannabe rock star thing.   

If someone told me that, the nicest thing I'd say is "Bye, find a younger keyboard player then."   I regret the many years of loud practices and loud gigs I had.  Not only for the hearing damage, but I've come to realize that loud practices are crap for actually learning songs.

[o0Ampy0o]

Here is an idea:

• Announce going forward you are paying each band member $1000 per gig.
• Describe how your plan is to increase the $1000 to $1500 next year.
• After two of these gigs are in their wallet announce going forward everyone is to play under a volume threshold.
• Failing to meet this criterion will forfeit the $1000.
• Their forfeited $1000 will be spread among the compliant members.
• Failing twice will result in being replaced.

 

This is appealing in several ways. They will want the money, they will want to do as asked to get the money and the increase to $1500 in the future, they won't like the idea of everyone enjoying their failure to meet the criterion and this amount of money increases the perception that everyone is that much easier to replace.

 

The band will be your oyster.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bill5]

"If you can't sing good, sing loud."    - Forrest Gump

 

 

[Spider76]

7 hours ago, niacin said:

if it’s too loud for you it’s probably in part cause they’ve lost some of their hearing.

This.

 

Unfortunately it's a vicious circle: you tell them to turn down, and they honestly tell you they can't, because they're already barely audible...to their damaged eardrums.

So they turn up, lose a little more hearing that will cause them to turn up even more next time, etc.

 

I simply stopped caring about somebody who's deaf both physically and mentally: I just use the strongest earplugs I can find, and their audiologist will take care of the rest.