"Gimme Some Lovin" -- Lachy Doley Hammond SK2 Solo (with Leslie)

[Jim Alfredson]

The music biz is so fucking miserably hard these days, especially for people who don't have the stunning beauty of a model, a rich daddy, and/or want to play an actual instrument, I find it frankly appalling that people are shitting on LD so hard in this thread.

 

It's so fucking hard out here that I'm one step from retiring from touring and just focusing on my repair business. Why am I doing this? Venues pay the same or less than they did 20 years ago, which was the same as they paid 40 years before that, the cost of a decent hotel room has gone up 200%, food 100%, gas 100%, tolls, airplane tickets, etc. You can barely sell physical merch anymore since everybody is streaming, which itself pays absolutely nothing. 

 

I released probably my best jazz record of my career in May on the Posi-Tone label, finally freeing myself from doing EVERYTHING myself (promotion, publicity, engineering, artwork design, etc.) and it did worse in the press and on radio than my other releases. I have 200 copies of it just sitting here. Nobody buys them at gigs. What am I doing this for? To be on the road away from my kids and wife and kitty and my own bed... for what?

I have several albums worth of original music on my harddrive, waiting to be released. Why? What's the point?

This industry is absolutely fucking brutal and Lachey is doing his best to make it. I guarantee he's sacrificing a lot to make it happen. If you don't like his stuff, that's fine. But why voice that negativity? There's literally hundreds of thousands of other artists making music to listen to. Walk on by, man.

For the record, I enjoyed the performance. He's a showman. The overdrive was not the Hammond but the 3300 with the stock Chinese tube (which sucks). Change that tube to a NOS 12AT7 and the overdrive would be much better. But the audience doesn't care at all. They enjoyed the performance, the band got paid, hopefully he sold some merch, and on to the next gig.

 

 

[El Lobo]

I'm biting my tongue. It's wrong to say anything negative about videos of another musician's performance? I can't go for that. 

[MathOfInsects]

@Jim Alfredson I just clicked over to buy your album. It looks like it's free on most of the services I use but available for purchase via Amazon. Should I buy it there or is there another option that helps you more (e.g., direct-download option from you)?

[MathOfInsects]

9 minutes ago, El Lobo said:

I'm biting my tongue. It's wrong to say anything negative about videos of another musician's performance? I can't go for that. 

IMO the ethical approach is "never punch down." Or even across. When someone's become as much an idea or a product as a person, I personally think it's fair game to honestly say, "this is not for me."  I do know plenty of people, though, whose ethic is, "Never tear down another artist." That's valid too. Just two different approaches. 

[Jim Alfredson]

 

5 minutes ago, El Lobo said:

I'm biting my tongue. It's wrong to say anything negative about videos of another musician's performance? I can't go for that. 

 

You can say whatever you want. Nobody is stopping you. My question is why? Why shit on the guy? What good does it do? It's not like he's out there making millions of dollars by duping the public into thinking he's the Second Coming of Our Lord and Savior Keith Emerson. He's just a guy playing clubs and small festivals, trying to make it. You don't dig him? Cool. That's fine.

We're here to (mainly) discuss gear. Expressing negative opinions on inanimate objects is one thing. Dissing fellow musicians is another. Saying, "It doesn't do anything for me," is fine. Saying, "He can't sing" is just rude and unnecessary. How many people who 'can't sing' have amazing and vital careers? Dylan. Waits. Hendrix. Springsteen. Knopfler. Lou Reed. None of them are great singers but so what?

 

3 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

@Jim Alfredson I just clicked over to buy your album. It looks like it's free on most of the services I use but available for purchase via Amazon. Should I buy it there or is there another option that helps you more (e.g., direct-download option from you)?

Thanks man. Amazon is fine. The label gets paid first and then me, which is fine. I would like to make another one with them.
 

[Jim Alfredson]

This just came across my YouTube feed. I think he's signing his ass off here.
 

 

I'll never forget reading reviews of my first THEO album (original 70s inspired progressive rock). A review came in where the reviewer basically said my voice wasn't up to the task. And then 10 minutes later another review came in where the reviewer raved about how good the singing on the album was.

I'm just asking for some comradery among musicians. You don't have to like it, but as MathOfInsects said, don't punch down. Someone mentioned Hiromi. Her playing leaves me cold. But I recognize that she's an amazing talent and the people who like her are enthusiastic. That's great! It's not for me. Same with Jacob Collier. I just don't get it. But he's obviously talented and people get enjoyment out of what he does. That's awesome. Music is awesome in that way. 

 

[MathOfInsects]

1 hour ago, Jim Alfredson said:

Thanks man. Amazon is fine. The label gets paid first and then me, which is fine. I would like to make another one with them.
 

Done. Looking forward to digging in.

[Theo Verelst]

I'm for musical performances, but what do people try to achieve with the privilege of having some skill and opportunity for it?

[benj2017]

5 hours ago, Jim Alfredson said:

The music biz is so fucking miserably hard these days, especially for people who don't have the stunning beauty of a model, a rich daddy, and/or want to play an actual instrument, I find it frankly appalling that people are shitting on LD so hard in this thread

 

 

I've been lurking on this thread since it was posted and feel exactly the same way.  The negativity on this board is a big part of why I don't participate more here. Normally I wouldn't even post in a thread like this, but Jim is one of the players that I respect on here and I pay close attention to his posts and I have checked out and transcribed some of his stuff as well.

 

I also found the thread with the clip of Rossano Sportiello at a party to be pretty silly with people saying pretty harsh things about something that was recorded off the cuff in a crowded room with a player just sitting down to jam a bit. It's like judging a stand-up comedian when they are doing a 5 minute spot at a local club, instead of listening to their published recordings.

 

Anyway, I haven't coughed up any cash to support the forum yet, maybe if we can go a month or two without hyper-analyzing or ripping into accomplished musicians I might consider it. 

[jazzpiano88]

I find that criticisms make a topic as interesting as the praises.  
When looking into a performer I always look for the critiques (one and two stars) to see what they have to say.  
 

The only thing worse than critique is silence because silence speaks for itself.  Oh, I guess there is one thing worse than that, and that is dishonesty in the name of some extraneous factor.   
 

I also understand people in the business may want to hold back critiques so as not to burn bridges. 

[Steve Nathan]

1 hour ago, Jim Alfredson said:

We're here to (mainly) discuss gear.

I'd say we're here to discuss gear AND musicianship.  Fine, he's a showman, and it is called Show Business...blah blah, but in a discussion of musicianship, I think it's fair to point out the difference between LD and say Bill Evans, George Shearing, Herbie, Joe Sample, Zawinul. etc. etc.  Angus Young vs. Clapton or SRV.  I'm also sorry that to earn a living, he has to resort to prioritizing showmanship , but that doesn't give him a pass in a discussion of his musicianship.  

[Jim Alfredson]

55 minutes ago, Steve Nathan said:

I'd say we're here to discuss gear AND musicianship.  Fine, he's a showman, and it is called Show Business...blah blah, but in a discussion of musicianship, I think it's fair to point out the difference between LD and say Bill Evans, George Shearing, Herbie, Joe Sample, Zawinul. etc. etc.  Angus Young vs. Clapton or SRV.  I'm also sorry that to earn a living, he has to resort to prioritizing showmanship , but that doesn't give him a pass in a discussion of his musicianship.  

All well and good but a wise man once told me that comparison is the thief of joy. Why would I compare LD to Bill Evans? It's not even in the same league, nor is it meant to be. I can appreciate Depeche Mode as much as I appreciate Joey DeFrancesco. Opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of technical ability but both valid. 

Critiquing is fine. Saying "he can't sing" isn't. He obviously CAN sing. Whether you like or not is subjective. But he's not Yoko Ono up there!

[Floyd Tatum]

Now that I've listened to quite a bit of Lachy, I get what the detractors are saying.   Still, I commend him for making a go of it, and I still think the whammy clavinet thing is quite unique, I've never seen anyone else do that.   He's not really my cup of tea, I probably wouldn't go to see him, but he's definitely got pentatonic chops.

[jazzpiano88]

2 hours ago, Jim Alfredson said:

Critiquing is fine. Saying "he can't sing" isn't. He obviously CAN sing. Whether you like or not is subjective. But he's not Yoko Ono up there!

 

I don't know about that. (I picked this up from a random youtuber down under who clears drains for a living )

 

[nursers]

38 minutes ago, Floyd Tatum said:

Now that I've listened to quite a bit of Lachy, I get what the detractors are saying.   Still, I commend him for making a go of it, and I still think the whammy clavinet thing is quite unique, I've never seen anyone else do that.   He's not really my cup of tea, I probably wouldn't go to see him, but he's definitely got pentatonic chops.

I've only seen Lachy once live, in a small pub. It was sold out, probably 80-100 people there? As i mentioned above, the show end to end I enjoyed a great deal. He gave it his all, there were slow moments amongst the rockier stuff and he spoke well between songs etc.

 

After the show, he was generous with his time talking to punters. I'd already had Lachy on the podcast, so we'd me but had a 5 minute chat. He gave the same time to anyone else that wanted to chat. Does any of that objectively make him a 'great' player. No - but the package makes for a great night and this D-grade weekend warrior happened to think he played great as well.

 

Plus down here - Hammonds and Leslies are much less common (they are absolutely still around but not anywhere to the same extent as the US), so the ability to watch someone play one up close was worth price of admission alone.

[El Lobo]

Ok. Performers should not diss other performers. Musicians, singers, actors, dancers, comedians should not diss other musicians, singers, actors, dancers, comedians. Other creative people - artists, writers, directors - should not diss other creative people. 

[niacin]

The studio version (technically live in the studio, there's more than a few live concert versions on Youtube), he's in better voice and the Hammond's the real deal, but if you don't like his playing or his showmanship there's nothing to see here.  Lachy's been invited to play with Glenn Hughes, Joe Bonamassa & Mike Portnoy and I'm pretty sure they chose him for his musicianship.  Afaik he's the only guy currently carving out a full-time career leading a Hammond-driven power trio.  

 

 

 

 

[Spider76]

Like many, I don't understand the negativity.

I saw Doley this summer in my city (a rare event in a small Italian town) and I thoroughly enjoyed the experience. 

He was playing, singing his ass off, showing off his moves, talking to the audience a LOT, smiling all the time, clearly having a great time and sharing it with the audience. He seemed like a genuinely nice guy, and much more humble and down-to-earth than his onstage persona would suggest.

What's not to like?

 

He's a great showman, and they should show his concerts to anybody who thinks keyboards cannot be entertaining...especially fellow keyboardists.

 

Was it the best concert of my life? No.

Was it especially original? No.

Was it a musical revelation that changed my life? No.

Was it the best singer or hammond player I've seen? No.

Would I buy his records? No.

Will I start to learn his moves and use them on my gigs? No.

Was it the best keyboard entertainment I've ever seen? Yes (sorry keith, cory and stevie)

Did I enjoy every minute of the performance? Yes.

Would I go to another of his concerts? Yes.

 

Are these things in contradiction? Not at all.

[jerrythek]

This conversation has moved into an interesting, and I think important discussion on how to discuss your opinion on a musician/music. I've always come from a place that is close to what Jim A expresses, but I do agree with Steve N that discussions of musicianship/taste are fine. It's how we express ourselves/the language we use that is the tipping point for me. I know it's not feasible to always preface any criticism with in my opinion, for me etc. but I think that is what needs to be clear when discussing these things. When we don't see that, often times a written comment can come across as too harsh, and our dialog devolves.

 

I guess for some it may seem weak, or mealy-mouthed to always say that someone/some performance is fine/great/whatever but it's simply not my taste, but isn't that the reality of it for most of these discussions? True, there are sure to be some train-wreck/awful performances, but I choose to skip those and spend my time on things that are good/worthy/of interest to me.

 

So while I come from a place of spending my time looking for what does resonate with me, along the way we're bound to come to some artists/performances that don't, and I think it's fine to say so, as long as it is done with respect to the artist.

 

And then there's the issue of artists that you really like, but there's some aspect of the music, or a given performance that doesn't sit well within your/my taste. I'll give some examples:

 

1) I love the Mahavishnu Orchestra, but as time went on their live performances simply got too fast and frenetic for me. I'm not alone - I just read an interview with Jan Hammer that he expressed the same feeling. I can say the same thing about Emerson, Lake & Palmer. For me, the studio version of Hoedown feels so much better than almost any of the live performances, which are just too fast for my taste.

 

2) Oscar Peterson is a good subject for this kind of example. He has many performances/recordings that I simply love, like most of the Exclusively For My Friends releases, the Night Train album etc. Because he reins in his chops/need to fill every space and shows off his ample talent in what I feel is a most tasteful way. But there are plenty of examples of him playing a ballad strewn with double-time two-handed runs and other (what I feel are) questionable choices.

 

3) I simply don't connect with Dream Theatre's music, and Jordan R is one of my dearest friends. I don't spend time knocking them - they are excellent musicians who work very hard at their craft and their career, but it simply isn't my thing. Too mechanical riff-oriented for my taste. Jordan has done plenty of things that I do like (his The Road Home solo album is but one example), and I choose to focus on them. 

 

So as with so many things written on the Internet, sometimes with hasty brevity, the dialog comes across as harsh and denigrating, when it often is really just an expression of our tastes. Those could be dealt with better in the first place IMHO. And to come back to Jim A's comments, if all you want to do is simply say you don't like something without any other discussion, reasoning or possibly helpful critiquing, why bother to write it?

 

[Bobbo Fett]

Sooooooo.......Mr. Doley (obviously) doesn't have the the musical gravitas to run with Evans, Oscar, Joey, and on  and on.....my next question is, who's gonna tell him, so he can stop this "entertaining" nonsense get on with his plumbing career? Truth be told, I'm sure he already knows and is happy to be HIM, entertaining normal folk who are NOT musical geniuses but who appreciate his performance none the less.....I'm also a mediocre sax player, in addition to being a mediocre keyboard guy (and that's ok......................right?) and I can tell you that the quickest way to spawn a thread like this over at SaxontheWeb is to start a topic about Kenny G. Those guys are like sharks with blood in the water over THAT guy........

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, jerrythek said:

This conversation has moved into an interesting, and I think important discussion on how to discuss your opinion on a musician/music.

Very few people on this discussion forum have an interest in Hip-Hop music (artists, musicians, producers, etc.).

 

If a Hip-Hop related thread pops up, most forumites ignore it. They could do the same thing with anything else of dislike or little to no interest. 

 

However, as fans of a song, artist/band/musician, style of music, instrument, etc., opinions will fly around. Some more tactful than others. 

 

Several factors (aging, nostalgia, experience) contribute to the  groundskeeping, er, get off my lawn mentality.🤣

 

Brotha @Jim Alfredson nailed it with his post. No need to criticize. Just keep it moving if that cup of tea isn't preferred.😎

[MathOfInsects]

Let's start some hip-hop threads. Or even a forum? It's almost exclusively a keyboard and DAW-related genre, it seems like it's right over the plate. 

 

[ProfD]

1 minute ago, MathOfInsects said:

Let's start some hip-hop threads. Or even a forum? It's almost exclusively a keyboard and DAW-related genre, it seems like it's right over the plate. 

 

Let's not and say we did.🤣 

 

There isn't enough of an audience at KC for anything Hip-Hop related.  I just used it as a part of my tangential response.

 

Otherwise, I'm fine with the range of topics the demographic here prefers.😎

[jazzpiano88]

I don't quite view it as the life and death situation as some here.    LD is a public figure (artist) who has hit the semi- big-time and is therefore fair game for criticism.

I don't care for his act, so I think I'm free to make critical comments that may include a bit of hyperbole (can't sing) and humor (comparison to Linda Lavin's atrocious singing being foisted upon the poor listener) to make a point.

 

I do it in the same way that I state the the Grateful Dead didn't know how to play their instruments.   Of course they know how to play (sort of ), but everyone gets the point when you say it, but with all hell breaking loose from the dead heads in my family.

 

Be that as it may, if it upsets people here, in the spirit of community I can, and will tone it down in future critiques. 

[Floyd Tatum]

Just out of curiosity.....

How do you pronounce Lachy?   "Latch-ee"?  Or something else?   "Lacky"?

 

[nursers]

22 minutes ago, Floyd Tatum said:

Just out of curiosity.....

How do you pronounce Lachy?   "Latch-ee"?  Or something else?   "Lacky"?

 

Lock - eeee 

[stoken6]

12 hours ago, Floyd Tatum said:

Just out of curiosity.....

How do you pronounce Lachy?   "Latch-ee"?  Or something else?   "Lacky"?

 

I'm thinking Lacky. Short for Lachlan. 

 

Of course, Mr Doley has the same privilege as Mr Moog and all of us, in being able to choose how our names are pronounced. So I might be wrong.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[niacin]

Yes it's short for Lachlan, the a is pronounced as in yacht, or as the o in lock.

[HammondDave]

On 9/17/2023 at 9:32 AM, MathOfInsects said:

Speaking only for myself, there is zero "competition" as a factor in my reaction to LD, or anyone else. I really want to like him each time I come across him, partially because so many people I like and respect like him, and partially because he works in a genre that would make him a prime candidate to steal ideas and techniques from!

But for me, I simply never encounter what he does as anything more than a series of gestures or moves. It never adds up to music for me. It's a bunch of things that are done, instead of a song that is played. It's almost like someone playing a person playing an instrument. He's got scads of talent, I just never experience his clips as musical, only sounds and motions. It's like a guitarist deploying all his music-store riffs. It's the guy who asks if he can play your keyboard "just to try it out," and then launches into what he imagines is an audition for the band. 

In this case, that (what I process as) lazy vocal performance only compounded it. And the rhythm section just never settled in, which certainly didn't help either. But even if it had, I wish he'd just stop "showing" and just play a song already. 

So I can’t help but wonder what the ‘purebreds” on this forum think of Keith Emerson….

[HammondDave]

On 9/17/2023 at 10:52 AM, Jim Alfredson said:

The music biz is so fucking miserably hard these days, especially for people who don't have the stunning beauty of a model, a rich daddy, and/or want to play an actual instrument, I find it frankly appalling that people are shitting on LD so hard in this thread.

 

It's so fucking hard out here that I'm one step from retiring from touring and just focusing on my repair business. Why am I doing this? Venues pay the same or less than they did 20 years ago, which was the same as they paid 40 years before that, the cost of a decent hotel room has gone up 200%, food 100%, gas 100%, tolls, airplane tickets, etc. You can barely sell physical merch anymore since everybody is streaming, which itself pays absolutely nothing. 

 

I released probably my best jazz record of my career in May on the Posi-Tone label, finally freeing myself from doing EVERYTHING myself (promotion, publicity, engineering, artwork design, etc.) and it did worse in the press and on radio than my other releases. I have 200 copies of it just sitting here. Nobody buys them at gigs. What am I doing this for? To be on the road away from my kids and wife and kitty and my own bed... for what?

I have several albums worth of original music on my harddrive, waiting to be released. Why? What's the point?

This industry is absolutely fucking brutal and Lachey is doing his best to make it. I guarantee he's sacrificing a lot to make it happen. If you don't like his stuff, that's fine. But why voice that negativity? There's literally hundreds of thousands of other artists making music to listen to. Walk on by, man.

For the record, I enjoyed the performance. He's a showman. The overdrive was not the Hammond but the 3300 with the stock Chinese tube (which sucks). Change that tube to a NOS 12AT7 and the overdrive would be much better. But the audience doesn't care at all. They enjoyed the performance, the band got paid, hopefully he sold some merch, and on to the next gig.

 

 

BRAVO, JIM!  You are so on point with this. You know that I can be pretty cynical myself, but it is certainly not against artists!  And talking about fees.., in 1970 I was making $100 a night playing covers behind strippers. This past Saturday night I got paid $80 playing at a local club in Long Beach. And that is before you factor in inflation over the past 53 years!  I don’t know how great artists like you do it.  I have friends and former students who are struggling in the live entertainment design industry that I was fortunate to break through in. But that does not make me a “better” artist than they are. 
 

Let’s not shit on colleagues who are doing their thing. Good for you, Lachy. I enjoy watching and listening to your performances.  I am a little sad that some can’t see, hear, or feel your passion.  
 

…and one more thing… at the above mentioned gig, I channeled Lacey’s GSL drawbar solo during a cover of “If You Want Me To Stay”… and the audience went nuts!  I have not been cheered and applauded like that for many years. And it was a crap solo…. But you know, I was very happy because I made them happy.  Because the bottom line is that its not about virtuosity, it’s about making people happy.