mate stubb Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 I have long noticed that many bands in the 70s played their music at warp speed live. My bands, big name bands, it didn't seem to matter. Listening to old recordings can be painful - groove and danceability got destroyed. Anybody else remember this phenomenon? 1 Quote Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stokely Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 Remember it, I live it at every gig We try to make sure we are keeping tempos down, but the inclination is to play way too fast. I only realize it when I hear recordings. Our old drummer didn't play to a click, but he used some app on his phone to set the tempo for every song...he got really frustrated as the muscle memory of the rest of us (mainly guitar) fought against the "slow" tempo! Too fast is usually better than too slow though. Our drummer will occasionally set the tempo way down (probably confusing one song with another) and it's murder to sing some songs when they slow down... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threadslayer Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 35 minutes ago, Jazz+ said: Cocaine tempo? Nah. Just good old fashioned adrenaline. Quote Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 Drummers playing to click tracks have been a welcome change these last couple decades. Quote "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Williams Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 Much of ELP's recorded stuff seems to have accelerated by 25% in live performance. Tarkus is a good example. 5 Quote -Tom Williams {First Name} {at} AirNetworking {dot} com PC4-7, PX-5S, AX-Edge, PC361 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 still happening! Quote 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted March 29, 2023 Author Share Posted March 29, 2023 Example from 1977: They seem to have learned their lesson by 1998: 2 Quote Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawback Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 How ‘bout way too funny and way too fast! 2 Quote ____________________________________ Rod Here for the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Emm Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 Guilty. In fact, egregiously so. Quote "Well, the 60s were fun, but now I'm payin' for it." ~ Stan Lee, "Ant-Man and the Wasp" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iconoclast Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 I always laugh when, in rehearsal, someone complains that we were playing too slow. Like that will ever happen in the performance! I do one of my bands with a click and there certain times it's just painful to play the song that slow when you're ready to rip. Quote You want me to start this song too slow or too fast? Forte7, Nord Stage 3, XK3c, OB-6, Arturia Collection, Mainstage, MotionSound KBR3D. A bunch of MusicMan Guitars, Line6 stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgoo Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 I saw a local band once doing "Superstition". First thing I noticed was, the singer was struggling to spit the words out because the darned thing was so fast. I look a little closer at the stage and realized the drummer was singing the song! Seems like the drummer equivalent of a dog chasing his/her tail. 🤣 Quote Custom Music, Audio Post Production, Location Audio www.gmma.biz https://www.facebook.com/gmmamusic/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Years ago I was in a band that never got out of the basement, and we recorded some rehearsals. Someone made a comment about the previous song being too fast, and then the guitar player starts playing "What I Like About You" at Mach 3. Everybody joined in where the full band kicks in on the song. Drummer sings the song falsetto. Harmonies are sung chipmunk style. Guitar solo played on the top three frets of the fretboard. We actually made it through the damn song. Yes the incriminating evidence is on an mp3 on my computer. No I don't think anyone would want to lose two minutes of their life if I uploaded it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 check the tempo in the first 4 bars against the last few bars. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyRude Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Quote Some music I've recorded and played over the years with a few different bands Tommy Rude Soundcloud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuelBLupowitz Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Honestly, I think those chaotic tempos and general roughness-around-the-edges is part of the charm that I fell in love with hearing live recordings of bands I loved from that era growing up. Sometimes a click is the right thing. And I have nothing but admiration for drummers who can play slow tempos and keep it energetic and funky (here's looking at you, Levon Helm). But 1970s live records were part of my education about "stage time" and how differently you perceive time while performing. Certainly it helped me understand why the recordings I heard of myself didn't quite match up with what I thought was happening when I was in the moment. Though watching that 1977 TOP clip, I can only think: poor Rocco! 🤣 1 Quote Samuel B. Lupowitz Musician. Songwriter. Food Enthusiast. Bad Pun Aficionado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABECK Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 I have a live Sha na na LP from the 70s. It is hilariously fast. Trucker's speed must have been on the rider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PianoMan51 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Today at 71 my internal metronome is way better than it was 50 years ago. I’m as sensitive about a bad tempo as an out of tune Strat. I realize that speeding up tunes was a technique I and my bandmates used when a song had lost its initial magic. And I think in many cases the “magic “ lost was that the song was no longer culturally hip. So we played it faster to artificially pump back the effect. Today I try a different mental approach. I try to place myself back in 1972 when Superstition was at the front edge of hip. Way before Saturday Night Fever. Platform shoes. A slower funk that was powerful without the speed. And then do the same mental work for an Artie Shaw chart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejefunkyman Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 I'm part of these players who did a lot of home recording with drum tracks. Therefore I'm very sensitive to even the slightest tempo change. It can be very disturbing when playing with drummers who can't keep a steady tempo, even more considering that my playing is very syncopated. Therefore I'm complaining a lot when the tempo is too fast for me to feel comfortable. This leads to a lot of discussion with my band mates, but in the end, I almost always win 🤣 I get to the point now to try to force myself playing slightly behind the beat, in order to catch the tempo variations. We are seriously considering using click tracks in one of the band I'm playing with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrythek Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 17 hours ago, Tom Williams said: Much of ELP's recorded stuff seems to have accelerated by 25% in live performance. Tarkus is a good example. Yes, and it suffered for it. When you're there it's exciting, but listening back, not so much. But it's not like Carl ever had a great groove/pocket. You had to wait for Cozy Powell for that... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrythek Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 I had a great fusion band back in the late 70s-early 80's. First set was always good... 2nd set would be faster, less groove etc. So what happened in the parking lot to cause that? Not saying... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allan_evett Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Several groups I've been in were guilty of rushing tempos. Early on, I certainly made contributions to that. Getting on some radio/TV spots cured me of the problem, or else... And I learned what staying in the pocket with a rhythm section really meant. Still a challenge on occasion when playing solo or with a duo/trio, though I've become very sensitive to time for at least the last two decades. A leader I work for rushes intensely at times, though he at least admits to the problem and tries to correct it. But the times he gets excited about a song and forgets tempo...it can be quite a quick trip. At one of the most recent rehearsals we played through an arrangement with a recorded tempo of 140; by the end of the piece I tapped in the final tempo on my metronome app as 177. Was fun, in a strange way, to see how long I could keep up without flying off the rails. Speed metal piano time! Or like witnessing Bill Payne play bluegrass with Leftover Salmon... 1 Quote 'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo. We need a barfing cat emoticon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBarker Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Yes - Long Distance Runaround… LOL But sometimes it was really welcome and made the song better. My favorite is Genesis - Sqwonk. The studio version is just so plodding and dirgey, but the live comes alive! The studio can be a stifling and monotonous place, and sometimes tracks just get lulled into half-asleep tempos. I also think faster tempos translate better for a live audience. I played with a “Cocaine Drummer” for many years who took everything about 25% faster. But you know what? It really worked! The dancers always loved his tempos, and so did we. And it got to the point that I couldn’t stand to hear the original versions if they came on the radio. Quote Puck Funk! Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 For groovin' while slow, luv me some Richie (RIP). 2 Quote Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 On 3/29/2023 at 7:29 PM, mate stubb said: Example from 1977: For starters, their original drummer Dave Garibaldi isn't playing in that lineup. He's the one who laid down their groove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real MC Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 I suffered from drummers who gradually speed up the tempo and by the time the signature piano solo comes up I can't play the solo that fast. Happens with Sweet Home Alabama and Tuesday's Gone. We had a drummer that I dreaded his rolls around the toms, because that was where his tempo crept up. Few things p!ss me off, but that is one of them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBarker Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 15 minutes ago, The Real MC said: I suffered from drummers who gradually speed up the tempo and by the time the signature piano solo comes up I can't play the solo that fast. Happens with Sweet Home Alabama and Tuesday's Gone. We had a drummer that I dreaded his rolls around the toms, because that was where his tempo crept up. Few things p!ss me off, but that is one of them. Yeah, no excuse for that. Mr. Cocaine used to do that sometimes too. Coolest thing in the world is to purposefully bump up the tempo for a breakdown. Worst thing in the world is to gradually speed up because you can't keep your mojo in check. Generally in music, if you don't realize you're changing things, it's bad. If you did it with purpose, that's art. Quote Puck Funk! Equipment: Laptop running lots of nerdy software, some keyboards, noise makersâ¦yada yada yadaâ¦maybe a cat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Williams Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 3 hours ago, The Real MC said: We had a drummer that I dreaded his rolls around the toms, because that was where his tempo crept up. Few things p!ss me off, but that is one of them. I know from experience (I drum a bit) -- there's something in the metronome / click generator that obviously is slowing down during the fills. Stupid metronome.... 2 Quote -Tom Williams {First Name} {at} AirNetworking {dot} com PC4-7, PX-5S, AX-Edge, PC361 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill5 Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 On 3/29/2023 at 3:27 PM, mate stubb said: I have long noticed that many bands in the 70s played their music at warp speed live. My bands, big name bands, it didn't seem to matter. Listening to old recordings can be painful - groove and danceability got destroyed. Anybody else remember this phenomenon? I think it's true regardless of the era. Always drove me nuts. Thanks for this thread; when I've mentioned this to others they acted like I was delusional. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 As observed at the top of this thread, a lot of the bands were like wind-up toys at live shows in the 70's. IMO The Meters were one of the few bands back then who usually stayed in the funky pocket when playing live without speeding up too much. Maybe they were drinking whiskey and doing 'ludes rather than tooting up, who knows. In fact, in this example, the drummer Zigaboo Modeliste, actually seems to slow the tempo down leading into the next song during the drum break beginning at ~3' 10". https://youtu.be/p5IQ0y8wllk?t=122 Quote Gigs: Nord 5D 73, Kurz PC4-7 & SP4-7, Hammond SK1, Yamaha CK88, MX88, & P121, Numa Compact 2x, Casio CGP700, QSC K12, Yamaha DBR10, JBL515xt(2). Alto TS310(2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathOfInsects Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 I'm interested in how many people are like, "Naw, dawg, it's not drugs." Of course it's drugs. Sure, it's excitement too. But it's also drugs. 2 Quote Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material. www.joshweinstein.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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