iPad as a serious musical instrument

[ElmerJFudd]

Arturia got back to me. The hub on their Fuse interfaces can charge an iPad. The host port does not.  They have to recommend using an additional hub to keep the iPad charged during play. So you need a hub and the Fuse on long gigs. Or you have to move the iPad to one of the hub ports on the Fuse between sets.  We can assume the MAudio Air Hub works the same way.  That’s a shame. 

[JohnnyFoster]

On 5/17/2023 at 8:43 AM, Ibarch said:

 

I agree. Keeping an iPad or iPhone is a different challenge to Mac and PC. It's great if you've bought all your apps and can freeze the device for the next x years. What happens when you want to install just one more app? Users will find they can't buy the latest apps unless their device is running a supported version of the OS. Once your device is (in Apple's opinion) end of life, it is game over. The chances of moving all your current apps to a new current device are greatly diminished. 

 

Right now, this isn't showing up as a problem because most iPad apps are still relatively new. Give it a few years and it will become more and more of an issue. 

 

It is something people need to be aware of when choosing their platform. Especially as the iPad market may be about to boom with the release of Logic. 

As appealing as the iPad platform appears today, I can’t see it being a wise long-term investment to base your music on, as they won’t last even close to Macs and PCs. It truly is planned obsolescence. I have three iPads and will not invest in anymore of them after these wear out. Who knows how long we’ll be able to retrieve and use the apps we’ve paid for? It’s out of our hands, and that’s a disconcerting prospect. It’s too bad more confidence can’t be had in this platform for music.

[ElmerJFudd]

4 hours ago, JohnnyFoster said:

As appealing as the iPad platform appears today, I can’t see it being a wise long-term investment to base your music on, as they won’t last even close to Macs and PCs. It truly is planned obsolescence. I have three iPads and will not invest in anymore of them after these wear out. Who knows how long we’ll be able to retrieve and use the apps we’ve paid for? It’s out of our hands, and that’s a disconcerting prospect. It’s too bad more confidence can’t be had in this platform for music.

“Apple usually supports a new iPad with iPadOS updates for at least five years and often several years longer.”

“Apple typically provides software updates for a MacBook for about five to six years after the model's initial release.”

 

This is based on average data from Intel and A series CPUs.  We have yet to see Apple’s support time line on Apple Silicon Macs. 

 

It’s easier to replace the battery on the MacBook than on the an iPad.  But it’s doable. 

 

[Al Quinn]

5 hours ago, JohnnyFoster said:

As appealing as the iPad platform appears today, I can’t see it being a wise long-term investment to base your music on, as they won’t last even close to Macs and PCs.

 

How long do you think we should expect an iPad, Mac, or PC to last?

 

My 2016 iPad Pro still works great. Seven years of use with no end in sight. I have no complaints. My 2015 MacBook Pro is still going strong although I had to replace the battery (for the first time) earlier this year. I did it myself and it didn't cost much.

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

“Apple usually supports a new iPad with iPadOS updates for at least five years and often several years longer.”

“Apple typically provides software updates for a MacBook for about five to six years after the model's initial release.”

 

This is based on average data from Intel and A series CPUs.  We have yet to see Apple’s support time line on Apple Silicon Macs. 

 

When it comes to Macs, I don't think processor type is a factor. There are marketing, legal, and other reasons why they probably wouldn't want to "obsolete" someone's purchase too quickly. And even Intel was, itself, the third processor family for Mac, so their support history goes way back before them as well.

 

iOS is irritatingly different, as I've mentioned before. With no "physical" software and (since iOS 9) no way to maintain your own backup copies of apps you've purchased, and with no way to revert an iOS device to run an earlier version of the OS that it used to run, and--after a certain point--no way to be assured you can create an exact/complete backup of your current device (even if you buy another older device used), you don't have the same kind of virtually assured long-term stability that you have elsewhere.

 

37 minutes ago, Al Quinn said:

How long do you think we should expect an iPad, Mac, or PC to last?

 

iPads can certainly be great tools, but I likewise don't know about counting on anything super long term. I have gear that's 20+ years old that is still perfectly useful and usable. I think the likelihood of a 20 year old iPad continuing to be useful and usable is much smaller. Of course, at this point in my life, I'm not so likely to be perfectly useful and usable 20 years from now either.

[SteinwayB]

Anyone using ipad with USB interface like 3rd gen Focusrite or MOTU M6?  Wondering about how user friendly it is.

[Reezekeys]

I've hooked up my MOTU MicroBook IIc to my iPad - in AUM, the interfaces's outputs appear as locations to assign audio to. That's friendly enough for me.

[Baldwin Funster]

If a person is so worried of being able to recreate their ipad setup, one insurance policy is to buy another ipad. $400 will buy you enough power and memory to do anything currently available. Having 2 will make both last twice as long and all connections would be the same so no need to double up on dongles and hubs. I expect some here to blow up at this idea like I suggested something outrageous. Maybe it is. I don't have 2, I have one semi current iPad and an iPad mini 4 that I use when #1 is charging. But I've got myself thinking about it....

[D. Gauss]

simple. Do.not.use.wifi/interwebs.  once you get your rig tweaked and working with the apps you want/need/like, be it on com.pu.tor or ipad, disable the wifi/interwebs forever.  i.e. treat it like it was a hardware keyboard.  when it no longer does what you require, get a new one and start over.  until then,  no one can mess with your apps/OS, etc.  i'm still running a 2014 macbook pro here on yosemite that hasn't touched the web since 2014.  at the point i needed some newer apps/programs to do further work (2020), i bought an I9 beast of a PC, but still fire up the old macbook when i need to.

[Reezekeys]

I think this is being blown out of proportion. A software instrument setup may have, on average, a shorter lifespan than hardware. That's a given, and to argue that as a point against software is almost disingenuous imo. I know I can't run Final Cut Pro v1.0 on my computer, or Word 5.1. It's a universal truth that applies to any system that needs the symbiosis of software and hardware. It's not easy predicting the future in terms of processors and operating systems. Many software developers, especially for iOS and probably Android, are mom & pop operations or just a guy or gal in their basement. You takes your chances and roll with it. I'm happily chugging along on my 2013 MacBook Pro and doing gigs on a 2016 original iPhone SE. Someday that will end. I will probably have moved on to another setup by then. These tools, comparatively speaking, are not that expensive, and considering the number of years I've been using them I consider the bang to buck ratio way more than acceptable to me. And sure, I know iOS is a more closed system and we're more at the mercy of Apple in terms of our setups continuing to work, but again, I feel like I can roll with that. Despite the bumps in the road (one of which I detailed in a previous post in this thread), the pluses are way outnumbering the minuses, imo of course.

[Meta]

 

Thanks for all the replies to "Question: Camelot Pro, Keystage, AUM, or ?" - Very helpful so far. Anyone else have experiences to share?

 

Also, BTW, I upgraded to iOS 16.5 and my camera connection kit USB interface continues to work. Powers my Arturia keyboard and iPad9 while connected to the iPad's power cube. So if that was the problem others have reported, it didn't happen here. YMMV.

 

 

[Paul Woodward]

I am running the latest Developer beta so will give that a try and see if anything has been fixed. However, I don't recall having the issue over the last few weeks/months as my iPad has gone through all the updates including the official 16.5.

 

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, Reezekeys said:

I think this is being blown out of proportion. A software instrument setup may have, on average, a shorter lifespan than hardware. That's a given, and to argue that as a point against software is almost disingenuous imo. I know I can't run Final Cut Pro v1.0 on my computer, or Word 5.1. It's a universal truth that applies to any system that needs the symbiosis of software and hardware.

That's true, and the approach/perspective you describe in the rest of the post is sensible as well. But what you're describing in the quote above is not an "equally universal" truth for all platforms, and to me, that's the frustration. If today, I found some reason I wished I could run the old Final Cut Pro 1.0 or Word 5.1 software, I could still do it, even if it required picking up an old Mac on eBay.

[ElmerJFudd]

I have the first iPad that’s still running.  2010 I believe.  So that’s a 13 year old device. It’s useless for internet browsing or streaming video as  the browser and YouTube apps are ancient.  But it has the last OS they released and the versions of apps it ran are still running. Sunriser synth and a few others are on it.  I also have the Alesis dock which did provide audio and midi io and charged the iPad. 
 

How long will my iPad Pro last?  We shall see. But if it runs Pianoteq and MainStage (soon I hope). I’ll use it for as long as it boots. 

[ElmerJFudd]

I tell you what.  As iPad Pros shift to productivity machines Apple had best take a good look at their backup and recovery schemes. 

[AnotherScott]

2 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I have the first iPad that’s still running.  2010 I believe.  So that’s a 13 year old device. It’s useless for internet browsing or streaming video as  the browser and YouTube apps are ancient.  But it has the last OS they released and the versions of apps it ran are still running. Sunriser synth and a few others are on it.

 

Yeah, as long as it powers up (or you can still get a replacement battery for it), it can go indefinitely. But if there are some "obsolete" apps on it, there's still the issue that, if it gets badly dropped, otherwise fails, gets stolen, whatever... you can't just pick up a used old iPad on eBay and assume you can recreate/reinstall your old stuff from backup. Or if the system gets messed up and hangs badly so that you need to reinstall the OS, you may or may not lose the rest of what you had. Though in this case your iPad is SO old you might actually be in better shape than more recent purchasers, since up until iOS 9, you could at least maintain backups of your apps locally. (Backing up data is pretty much always possible... but having the data if you no longer have access to--and can't reinstall--the app can be of questionable value...)

 

1 hour ago, Meta said:

Thanks for all the replies to "Question: Camelot Pro, Keystage, AUM, or ?" - Very helpful so far. Anyone else have experiences to share?

 

In some cases, one may be able to do something you need better than another, but probably the biggest immediate difference for basic usage is in their overall interface/approach, and since each has its fans, the only person who is going to be able to tell you which interface makes the most sense to you is you. Keystage and AUM have free demos for you to try, Camelot doesn't have on on iOS, but they have a free demo you can run on Mac/PC so you can try it out there.

 

One other differentiator to me is that, IMO, Keystage and Camelot both desperately need manuals; the Keystage developer says he's working on it, the Camelot people seem adamant in believing it's not necessary. They're wrong. 😉 As for AUM, some people love it, but... not me. See https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/182692-ipad-au-instruments-host-with-lowest-latency/#comment-2912566

 

[Ibarch]

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I tell you what.  As iPad Pros shift to productivity machines Apple had best take a good look at their backup and recovery schemes. 

 

This is a deliberate and fixed mindset from Apple. iOS/iPadOS is a locked down curated eco system, for the benefit of it's users. This extends to ensuring apps can only be installed if they meet current guidelines and the suppliers have a current license agreement with Apple. 

 

This all sounds great in principle but the consequences are that backup and recovery of apps are actively prevented if the above conditions are not met. It doesn't matter if customers have paid money for such apps. If the app/supplier fails current terms and conditions, the app cannot be installed on a device under any circumstances, recovery of backup included. 

 

No doubt this is clearly explained somewhere in Apple's terms and conditions. No doubt all customers have been made fully aware that they have absolutely no redress should a purchased app be withdrawn. No explanations will be offered and no compensation paid. All users of the App store have agreed that this is all perfectly acceptable and are happy to use their device and spend their money, subject to these terms. 

 

The silver lining to all this? It makes the subscription model look much more appealing. Why risk shelling out £££ on upfront purchases where you have no guarantee of being able to even install it again in the short/medium term?  A £1 fart app may be an acceptable loss. £200+ for professional level tools like  DAWs or sound libraries (should they ever be available) is most definitely not. 

[bfields]

On 5/22/2023 at 9:23 AM, Reezekeys said:

I think this is being blown out of proportion. A software instrument setup may have, on average, a shorter lifespan than hardware. That's a given, and to argue that as a point against software is almost disingenuous imo. I know I can't run Final Cut Pro v1.0 on my computer, or Word 5.1. It's a universal truth that applies to any system that needs the symbiosis of software and hardware. These tools, comparatively speaking, are not that expensive, and considering the number of years I've been using them I consider the bang to buck ratio way more than acceptable to me.

I worry more about the cost in hours than in dollars.  But I suppose redoing your setup every 5-10 years isn't necessarily a big deal, unless you've spent a lot of time on sound design or more complicated setups.

 

On 5/22/2023 at 9:23 AM, Reezekeys said:

It's a universal truth that applies to any system that needs the symbiosis of software and hardware.

It is a truth universally acknowledged, that a machine in possession of an old OS, must be in want of an update....

[Reezekeys]

43 minutes ago, bfields said:

But I suppose redoing your setup every 5-10 years isn't necessarily a big deal, unless you've spent a lot of time on sound design or more complicated setups.

 

In my case, it's not like I'm starting from scratch every 5-10 years so I don't see it as "redoing." I'll update small pieces over time. It's not been my experience that a hardware change suddenly renders my entire rig obsolete. I do need to stay on top of the soft & hardware, but there's usually enough notice as to when I'm gonna run into any incompatibilities; goes with the territory and I'm fine with it. And luckily for me, my needs are pretty basic - just bread & butter sounds, nothing exotic. I'm not worried I won't find a new rhodes or string virtual instrument for my i-whatever rig.

[Baldwin Funster]

There are not any new sounds that will be updating my rompler Roland. Whatever is in there is in there. 

So I figure an iPad rig is the same way. Pack it full of all the sounds you can grab up over the course on a few years and when you have all the Organs, Synths, EPs, APs, Clavs, Trons, Solinas, ect ad nausium then seal it shut and call it a finished piece. By then maybe 5 years down the road you can start up a new collection on a new current, up to date ipad. And you'll have both to choose from.

I'm not bothered by that. I can anticipate a possible response of indignation about *why should I have to* or *my other computer doesn't require*.....A $400 iPad and a bunch of $20 apps every few years, no biggie to me. Just make sure you got a few controllers with the right connectoids to run your older stuff.

[yannis D]

19 hours ago, bfields said:

I worry more about the cost in hours than in dollars.  But I suppose redoing your setup every 5-10 years isn't necessarily a big deal

I like your optimism man! I wish I could plan ahead for 5-10 years

 

[Ibarch]

23 hours ago, Jr. Deluxe said:

There are not any new sounds that will be updating my rompler Roland. Whatever is in there is in there. 

So I figure an iPad rig is the same way. Pack it full of all the sounds you can grab up over the course on a few years and when you have all the Organs, Synths, EPs, APs, Clavs, Trons, Solinas, ect ad nausium then seal it shut and call it a finished piece. By then maybe 5 years down the road you can start up a new collection on a new current, up to date ipad. And you'll have both to choose from.

I'm not bothered by that. I can anticipate a possible response of indignation about *why should I have to* or *my other computer doesn't require*.....A $400 iPad and a bunch of $20 apps every few years, no biggie to me. Just make sure you got a few controllers with the right connectoids to run your older stuff.

 

Here is a scenario at odds with the above. Let's say Modarrt start selling an iPad only version of Pianoteq for $100, in addition to their existing licenses. They happen to mention in their support page in the iPadOS app that you can buy a full license for all platforms from their website. 

You buy the iPadOS license for Pianoteq and load it onto your iPad. All good so far. 

 

Next week Apple remove all Modarrt apps from their store for breaching their license terms. Companies cannot even mention other platforms or purchase options exist elsewhere in any iPadOS app or any content displayed by apps or in their store listings. 

 

That Friday evening your iPad gets broken whilst on a gig. You buy a replacement iPad on Saturday, ready for your Sunday night gig. But now there is no Pianoteq on the store. There is no way to reinstall it back to your new iPad even though you have a valid license. You are now $100 short and no Pianoteq. 

 

For any other platform, be it MacOS, Windows, Android, Linux, hell even ChromeOS you can install apps you legally are allowed to. Not iOS/iPadOS. 

 

This scenario is, for me, why iPads are not a serious option for music. Other opinions are available. You pays your money, you makes your choices. 

 

 

[Ibarch]

To the relief of many, this will be my final post on this topic. It had taken about 20 attempts for me to feel I have expressed my concerns in a clear and straightforward manner. 

 

My soapbox is now packed away, I've stopped beating my drum. I will leave the thread for those who wish to discuss other thoughts, relevant or not, on the OPs original question. I'm off to glue myself to a genius bar until Apple change their ways. 

[jarrell]

2 hours ago, Ibarch said:

Next week Apple remove all Modarrt apps from their store for breaching their license terms.

Just curious... how many here have experienced losing access to a music app (temporary or permanent) on their iPad or iPhone due to Apple/Developer disagreements? I understand abandonware, but I think that is more the developer's fault.

[RABid]

Apple has come a long way with backup and restore since the early days of iPods. I remember buying a new iPod, and then buying a third party program that said it would transfer all of my music and play lists from the old iPod to the new. I couldn't. It was frustrating to build all those lists from scratch, and re-rate all those songs. Now it is so simple to get a new device and populate it with a cloud backup from the old device. It's a different world than it was 20 years ago.

 

While I would never use an iPad on stage as my main sound source, I do find myself selling more and more of my synth and beat box collection. Zenbeats, and now Logic on iPad does most of what I want. A nice M2 12.9" iPad pro is not cheap, but it covers a lot of territory. I finally ordered an Apple Magic Keyboard today which works with my current pre-Mx iPad and the latest version. In a couple weeks I will order a 12.9" iPad Pro with 1TB/16GB and have a lot of my music needs covered. My music needs? Making beats and composing song starters wherever I happen to be. The camera, video recording, games, Microsoft Word, email, apps for HBO Max, Disney+, etc..., it all makes a portable lifestyle bundle that I can take to the porch or on vacation. IPad is getting more serious every month. It is definitely the most used device in my house.

[ElmerJFudd]

2 hours ago, RABid said:

Apple has come a long way with backup and restore since the early days of iPods. I remember buying a new iPod, and then buying a third party program that said it would transfer all of my music and play lists from the old iPod to the new. I couldn't. It was frustrating to build all those lists from scratch, and re-rate all those songs. Now it is so simple to get a new device and populate it with a cloud backup from the old device. It's a different world than it was 20 years ago.

 

While I would never use an iPad on stage as my main sound source, I do find myself selling more and more of my synth and beat box collection. Zenbeats, and now Logic on iPad does most of what I want. A nice M2 12.9" iPad pro is not cheap, but it covers a lot of territory. I finally ordered an Apple Magic Keyboard today which works with my current pre-Mx iPad and the latest version. In a couple weeks I will order a 12.9" iPad Pro with 1TB/16GB and have a lot of my music needs covered. My music needs? Making beats and composing song starters wherever I happen to be. The camera, video recording, games, Microsoft Word, email, apps for HBO Max, Disney+, etc..., it all makes a portable lifestyle bundle that I can take to the porch or on vacation. IPad is getting more serious every month. It is definitely the most used device in my house.

Take solace in knowing a Surface Pro 9 i7 16gb/1TB is $2199 vs the M2 16gb/1TB 12.9” iPad Pro at $1799.  Both companies charge extra for the keyboard and stylus/pencil. 
 

https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/intel-core-i7-1265u-vs-apple-m2
 

[tfort]

Perhaps of use to some on here--

 

There's a review of some USB-C hubs and docks that came out today on Macworld:

https://www.macworld.com/article/349019/the-best-usb-c-hubs-for-the-ipad-pro-and-ipad-air.html

 

I have the first one (Hyperdrive). This has some good info on a bunch of options.

[AnotherScott]

20 hours ago, jarrell said:

Just curious... how many here have experienced losing access to a music app (temporary or permanent) on their iPad or iPhone due to Apple/Developer disagreements? I understand abandonware, but I think that is more the developer's fault.

If something becomes unavailable, all we really know is that it's unavailable. It is unlikely that we will know whether Apple pulled it or the developer did, much less why Apple or the developer pulled it. But the underlying point is that, with other platforms (or even on iOS itself up through version 9), a user can have their own backup which they can re-install from, even if an item is no longer being offered for sale, even if the developer is defunct. 

[Sam Mullins]

Since there has been a lot of discussion here about the pros/cons of an iPad based rig, I thought I would relay my experience.  Disclaimer:  I’m not an evangelist on this issue; I think everyone’s use case is different: required functionality, acceptable risk, etc.

 

History:   I play in a duo with my brother and we cover a pretty wide variety of rock/pop (everything from Beatles to Fiona Apple to Depeche Mode).  For the last 5 years, my rig has been a Nord Stage 3 and a Korg Kronos 61, midi’d to each other.  Many songs are simple from a sound perspective: piano, piano and organ, bass and epiano, etc.  But about 25% involve more complicated splits across two keyboards (sometimes as many as 8-10 splits).  For the vast majority of non-piano and non-organ sounds, I use the Kronos (played from either keyboard).  To be clear, this setup has worked great for me and I have had no reliability issues (maybe a half dozen random reboots of the Kronos over the years)

 

A couple months ago I embarked on a project to replace above with:

• Yamaha CK 88
• Arturia Keylab MkII
• iPad + apps (Camelot Pro using mostly Korg Module, B-3x, Neo-Soul Keys, Ravenscroft, Pure Synth Platinum, Moog Model D and Arturia iSEM)

 

Given what I said about my existing rig, you may ask why?  Fair enough:

• Reduce weight.   I’m in good shape, but I’m approaching retirement age and thought it was time to face the future reality of what I can haul.    Stage 3/hard case -> CK88/hard case went from 63 to 50 pounds.  Kronos/hard case -> Arturia/soft case went from 54 to 17 pounds (big win)
• Kronos screen:  I used and loved the set list feature, with notes for chord changes and lyric hints.  But I had a hard time reading the small print 5 years ago and was rapidly approaching it being unusable.    
• The Stage was overkill for what I used it for (piano, wurly and organ).  I never cared for the Nord Rhodes sounds and rarely used the synth.  Given the price increases on Nord, I thought it was a good time to sell (and indeed I sold it for about $600 less than I paid 6 years ago)

 

Many have voiced justifiable concerns about relying on an iPad in this thread.  Here is the risk mitigation strategy I am following to allow this change:

 

• I can play 75% of our songs with the CK88 if necessary.  So worst case is we have a narrower set list stylistically.
• I have an iPad Pro and an iPad mini.  Whenever I change something in Camelot Pro, at the end of the session I back it all up to iCloud and it is available to import on the iPad mini.  
• If there is an iOS or app upgrade I do it on the iPad Pro and check everything out thoroughly and wait for many days prior to upgrading the iPad mini.  If there is a gig coming up, I would wait until after the gig before trying any upgrades.
• I bring both iPad’s to the gig;  they have different CCK (Thunderbolt vs. lightning).  So if the CCK fails, I would simply use the other iPad.
• I have a nice high quality USB hub (mounted on my pedal board) that has full power on every USB connector.  But I also carry an old leftover cheap USB hub as a backup.

 

So I’m obviously exerting some effort to avoid the likelihood of a software issue at some point.  I have no illusions on this point; I’ve already been through a problem on Pure Synth Platinum that would have made it unusable on a gig.  It has been fixed, but I’m keeping a close eye on that app and only using it on a couple songs currently.    On the other hand, I have a full iPad backup for the non-CK sounds;  if my Kronos had ever died, then I would have been out of luck for those sounds.

 

I had my first gig last night and everything went fine.  Three hour-long sets and no glitches.   There are a few sounds that I used on my Kronos that I haven’t found equals to yet on iOS…but that’s more a function of time investment.  On the other hand, B-3X is inarguably superior to the Stage organs.  So like with any gear swap, there are trade offs. 

 

I will likely keep my Kronos around for a few months to make sure I’m still good with this approach.  If I have to go back to it, then duplicating what I was doing on the Stage with the CK88 will be easy.  In the meantime, I’m loving the reduced weight.  Even the 13 pounds for the lower keyboard seemed significant.  

 

Sorry for the long post, but I always find it useful when others post their use case details so thought I would contribute mine.  

[ElmerJFudd]

53 minutes ago, Sam Mullins said:

Since there has been a lot of discussion here about the pros/cons of an iPad based rig, I thought I would relay my experience.  Disclaimer:  I’m not an evangelist on this issue; I think everyone’s use case is different: required functionality, acceptable risk, etc.

 

History:   I play in a duo with my brother and we cover a pretty wide variety of rock/pop (everything from Beatles to Fiona Apple to Depeche Mode).  For the last 5 years, my rig has been a Nord Stage 3 and a Korg Kronos 61, midi’d to each other.  Many songs are simple from a sound perspective: piano, piano and organ, bass and epiano, etc.  But about 25% involve more complicated splits across two keyboards (sometimes as many as 8-10 splits).  For the vast majority of non-piano and non-organ sounds, I use the Kronos (played from either keyboard).  To be clear, this setup has worked great for me and I have had no reliability issues (maybe a half dozen random reboots of the Kronos over the years)

 

A couple months ago I embarked on a project to replace above with:

• Yamaha CK 88
• Arturia Keylab MkII
• iPad + apps (Camelot Pro using mostly Korg Module, B-3x, Neo-Soul Keys, Ravenscroft, Pure Synth Platinum, Moog Model D and Arturia iSEM)

 

Given what I said about my existing rig, you may ask why?  Fair enough:

• Reduce weight.   I’m in good shape, but I’m approaching retirement age and thought it was time to face the future reality of what I can haul.    Stage 3/hard case -> CK88/hard case went from 63 to 50 pounds.  Kronos/hard case -> Arturia/soft case went from 54 to 17 pounds (big win)
• Kronos screen:  I used and loved the set list feature, with notes for chord changes and lyric hints.  But I had a hard time reading the small print 5 years ago and was rapidly approaching it being unusable.    
• The Stage was overkill for what I used it for (piano, wurly and organ).  I never cared for the Nord Rhodes sounds and rarely used the synth.  Given the price increases on Nord, I thought it was a good time to sell (and indeed I sold it for about $600 less than I paid 6 years ago)

 

Many have voiced justifiable concerns about relying on an iPad in this thread.  Here is the risk mitigation strategy I am following to allow this change:

 

• I can play 75% of our songs with the CK88 if necessary.  So worst case is we have a narrower set list stylistically.
• I have an iPad Pro and an iPad mini.  Whenever I change something in Camelot Pro, at the end of the session I back it all up to iCloud and it is available to import on the iPad mini.  
• If there is an iOS or app upgrade I do it on the iPad Pro and check everything out thoroughly and wait for many days prior to upgrading the iPad mini.  If there is a gig coming up, I would wait until after the gig before trying any upgrades.
• I bring both iPad’s to the gig;  they have different CCK (Thunderbolt vs. lightning).  So if the CCK fails, I would simply use the other iPad.
• I have a nice high quality USB hub (mounted on my pedal board) that has full power on every USB connector.  But I also carry an old leftover cheap USB hub as a backup.

 

So I’m obviously exerting some effort to avoid the likelihood of a software issue at some point.  I have no illusions on this point; I’ve already been through a problem on Pure Synth Platinum that would have made it unusable on a gig.  It has been fixed, but I’m keeping a close eye on that app and only using it on a couple songs currently.    On the other hand, I have a full iPad backup for the non-CK sounds;  if my Kronos had ever died, then I would have been out of luck for those sounds.

 

I had my first gig last night and everything went fine.  Three hour-long sets and no glitches.   There are a few sounds that I used on my Kronos that I haven’t found equals to yet on iOS…but that’s more a function of time investment.  On the other hand, B-3X is inarguably superior to the Stage organs.  So like with any gear swap, there are trade offs. 

 

I will likely keep my Kronos around for a few months to make sure I’m still good with this approach.  If I have to go back to it, then duplicating what I was doing on the Stage with the CK88 will be easy.  In the meantime, I’m loving the reduced weight.  Even the 13 pounds for the lower keyboard seemed significant.  

 

Sorry for the long post, but I always find it useful when others post their use case details so thought I would contribute mine.  

Question about iCamelot behavior.  When you call up a setup you’ve designed - can iCamelot launch B3X or other instrument applications that you have launched yourself?  Or do you have to launch all you’ll be using and iCamelot handles the audio routing?