iPad as a serious musical instrument

[Reezekeys]

Seems to me you'd want to somehow fasten it to the keyboard, not just have it "sit" there. My X-stand is a little shaky as I play, but I'd be a little nervous even on a fairly rigid keyboard setup.

 

This is working for me right now, though I admit it doesn't exactly look great. The iPad is in a clear bumper case and I use my mounting clip to help a bit with cable management and keep the CCK from weighing on the lightning port too much. It still beats carting my SKB Studio Flyer and laptop to gigs.

 

[AnotherScott]

51 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

Seems to me you'd want to somehow fasten it to the keyboard, not just have it "sit" there.

There's always velcro...

[Reezekeys]

I'm not a fan of velcro for some uses as it requires each mating piece to be attached using an adhesive backing that can leave marks if you ever want to return the gear to it's non-velcro'd state. I prefer a way to mount that won't leave marks - hence the clips like the one I use for my iPad and this one for my phone -

 

[Baldwin Funster]

When I want to put velcro on something that I don't want glue on, I put painters tape on the thing first and put velcro on the tape. You have to ease the velcro open because it will otherwise come loose from the painters tape but if necessary add new velcro before every gig. The idea isn't permanent attachment, it's to fight gravity for 3 hours.

[drawback]

As I’ve said many times, 3M Command Picture Hanging Strips are fantastic. They work like Velcro, but are removable like the original Command Strips. 

[Paul Woodward]

Foolishly sold my ipad 9th gen as I just picked up the M2  pro (this is for digital art and design use though) and didnt need two ipads (nor was I gigging). Can’t even have a bit of fun with the latest Pro’s as they dont have any audio out without buying dongles and hubs etc. 

Having invested in a few apps for live/performance, I still fancy picking up one just as a sound module. A reputable seller on another forum has an Air 2 which seems to have been frozen in time. Its been in a drawer since 2016 but, fired up again, is performing like new with battery showing no sign of deterioration which I find quite amazing for a Li-Ion which should really be dead by now. He has been running it on a single charge for days. Its going cheap (maybe £70), but I fear it will be underpowered even though it ‘happily’ meets the specs needed for Module, Gadget etc. Might get used as a random media device at a push. Anyone still using something this old in their rigs?

[yannis D]

4 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

Foolishly sold my ipad 9th gen as I just picked up the M2  pro (this is for digital art and design use though) and didnt need two ipads (nor was I gigging). Can’t even have a bit of fun with the latest Pro’s as they dont have any audio out without buying dongles and hubs etc. 

Having invested in a few apps for live/performance, I still fancy picking up one just as a sound module. A reputable seller on another forum has an Air 2 which seems to have been frozen in time. Its been in a drawer since 2016 but, fired up again, is performing like new with battery showing no sign of deterioration which I find quite amazing for a Li-Ion which should really be dead by now. He has been running it on a single charge for days. Its going cheap (maybe £70), but I fear it will be underpowered even though it ‘happily’ meets the specs needed for Module, Gadget etc. Might get used as a random media device at a push. Anyone still using something this old in their rigs?

I have a 9th gen ipad with a Korg 61 bluetooth keyboard. No USBs, no dongles, nothing. Audio out from the ipad and runs like a champ 🏆 (very little, almost un noticeable latency)

[Paul Woodward]

1 hour ago, yannis D said:

I have a 9th gen ipad with a Korg 61 bluetooth keyboard. No USBs, no dongles, nothing. Audio out from the ipad and runs like a champ 🏆 (very little, almost un noticeable latency)

Yeah, was happy with the 9th gen’s performance. I can also get a 2017 iPad Pro for not much more than the Air 2. Will see what transpires.

[Reezekeys]

6 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

A reputable seller on another forum has an Air 2 which seems to have been frozen in time. Its been in a drawer since 2016 but, fired up again, is performing like new with battery showing no sign of deterioration which I find quite amazing for a Li-Ion which should really be dead by now. He has been running it on a single charge for days. Its going cheap (maybe £70), but I fear it will be underpowered even though it ‘happily’ meets the specs needed for Module, Gadget etc. Might get used as a random media device at a push. Anyone still using something this old in their rigs?

 

I went from an Air 2 to my current 9G. My AUM setup ran on the Air - it did OK, but I knew it was "approaching the wall." I needed to have the buffer at 256 and the CPU meter was regularly at 40 - 60%. My current 9G runs the same setup at a 128 buffer with CPU barely topping 20%, a few peaks in the mid-20s. Can't predict how that Air will work for you since nobody's setups are the same, but you should be OK with a few instruments, if you're prepared to tolerate a wee bit more latency than you might like. I used mostly sample-playback VIs like Korg Module and AudioLayer, not much in the synth realm.

 

I did quite a few gigs on the Air 2 and was happy - but I'm much happier now with the 9G!

[Paul Woodward]

IPad 9 running Korg module, happily integrated into my setup and its not going anywhere in a K&M holder…

[Justin Havu]

Just got a 10thGen iPad to replace a 2019 model that took a fall off my desk.  Now, I need to connect a KeyLab 61 MkII and an AudioBox iOne.  Only way would be to use a powered hub, but which one?  I don't want to just get any old cheapo off Amazon, and I also need it to keep my iPad charged, as I do not want to risk having it die on me in the middle of a gig.

 

Only thing I'm running right now is VB3m.  Went the iPad route only because it's way cheaper than a clonewheel.

[Baldwin Funster]

I use an insignia powered 7 port from....you guessed it ...Amazon. cost about $15 give or take a dollar.

It's been solid for years. Ok so I'm not a road dog. Nor do I accept gigs in rain, snow, direct hot sun ect, so I don't know how the hub would fare in extremes. I know computer based keyboard rigs in general don't do well in weather extremes. Or any keyboards for that matter. My opinion get something cheap and get another brand cheap as a backup. One, maybe both should last pretty good. Expensive hubs aren't really that much more reliable and will act up in weather extremes too.

Now if you're a pro with festival crowds waiting for you to figure out why your sh!t ain't working I can't help you much. I guess get some usb hub that is heat proof and water proof and road crew proof.

[Baldwin Funster]

BTW  a powered hub won't charge your iPad. At least not any I've seen. Maybe some kind of docking station would do it idk.

To power my iPad while it's on during a gig I use a camera kit that has a lighting charge port as well as a USB A.

Oddly I have the best luck with a 3rd party brand camera kit. I got the more expensive and supposedly more reliable Apple unit and it seemed to work but has a very low output to my sound adapter. I forgot I had it and a year later bought another one and not only did it not work any better but my credit card got hacked on the apple website.

So I bought a couple more of the 3rd party ones off of Amazon for backups and they all work perfectly. 

Your 10th Gen ipad should have like 10 hours or more of battery run time. If you charge it before your gig it's gonna go long enough for 2 gigs.

[Sam Mullins]

2 hours ago, Baldwin Funster said:

BTW  a powered hub won't charge your iPad. At least not any I've seen. Maybe some kind of docking station would do it idk.

To power my iPad while it's on during a gig I use a camera kit that has a lighting charge port as well as a USB A.

 

This one charged both my iPad Pro and iPad mini with no issues (obviously with appropriate camera kits):

https://a.co/d/8WgDvhi

 

I had it velcro'd in my Gator pedal tote when I was still doing the iPad rig.  

 

[JoJoB3]

If you PC the ish is cleaner.  Apple always = DONGLE HELL

 

[Paul Woodward]

A little update to this. Decided (yet again) to move on unused gear but keep my Grandstage and I decided to try connecting the iPad and Korg Module.

Previously I only saw the iPad as being useful to beef up sounds (extra synth layer, strings etc.) tried playing the pianos and EP’s with a YC, SL88 and Roland A800 and there was just some disconnection in terms of sound and touch, as well as a noticeable lag. Didn’t consider it useable for anything other than a quick rehearsal.

Maybe it’s the weighted board, that its a Korg machine, or a placebo effect, but playing the Ivory piano in Module from the GS was a delight. Ironically, you would have better pianos from the GS if you had setup, but it was certainly a more musical and enjoyable experience this way. If you are not finding Module (or other apps) to be as playable as you want, it might be the controller rather than the iPad. Just a thought.

[Reezekeys]

I'm curious to know if you're running Module standalone or in a hosting app, and the buffer setting. On my 9G iPad, Module standalone runs easily at a 64 sample buffer. I have the buffer at 128 in AUM. I experience no lag either way. Was the lag you felt apparent with all Module instruments, or Ivory in particular?

[Paul Woodward]

I only run stand-alone on the same 9g iPad, same buffer, and notes set to max (112). I just found that there was the lack of ear to feel connection on the other boards mentioned. A slight lag, but I couldn’t enjoy playing pianos or any sound really from module using the board mentioned. They just felt cheap and unresponsive (admittedly, most were not weighted either).

The GS just connected and I played for a good hour with the pianos which suddenly felt like an upgrade. Maybe Korg just connect better to their apps. I don’t really know, but I trust my feelings on this.

To clarify, it was USB midi to the A800 and the YC was running midi and audio over USB. With the GS I used the USB for midi with headphone out from the iPad.

[Reezekeys]

 

 

22 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

To clarify, it was USB midi to the A800 and the YC was running midi and audio over USB. With the GS I used the USB for midi with headphone out from the iPad.

 

I was going to say that using audio-over-USB to the YC might add a little latency, but realized you felt the lag on the A800 as well - safe to say you were using the iPad's headphone output then!

 

I wish I could offer a theory as to why you'd feel a lag with the A800 but not the GS. Good that you found a way to enjoy playing an iPad instrument on its own.

[Paul Woodward]

Cheers, that’s it really. The iPad was bought purely as a sound module (I already have the M2 Pro iPad), but it’s become an everyday tablet and it was only because I wanted to try out a little Yamaha USB mixer that I set it up. Quite a nice surprise to hear Module sounding/responding better than expected.

Also means I have a little extra flexibility should I ever want to play live now all the other gear is gone.

[Paul Woodward]

Resurrecting this thread as I have now tried the iPad with the new Keystage and it’s a similar experience to the GS although now I have audio coming back through the KS via USB and it’s still quick and responsive. The Yamaha CK/YC and Roland A800 never provided that connection for me so clearly Korg boards do seem to be well matched with their apps as you might expect (and hope).

[drawback]

The CK61 is great for that, and has cc transmitting drawbars. Bonus is that some of its internal sounds are as good if not better than some apps. Best of both worlds IMO.

[Docbop]

So I'm watch Sarah, The Illstrumentalist someone who makes Beats and creates lessons for a living.   She's part of a couple Roland demos at the Grammy museum and Apple was there and said you need to come to the Apple to see some new Logic on iPad tech were working on.    What I found interesting to me is Apple said the future music creators are kids that grew up on iPads and Garage Band and they don't care that much for computers, so were working on  Logic on the iPad because that is where they will want to work.    I don't know if to think that is a cool or scary thought on the future of music creation.

 

 

[zxcvbnm098]

8 hours ago, Docbop said:

So I'm watch Sarah, The Illstrumentalist someone who makes Beats and creates lessons for a living.   She's part of a couple Roland demos at the Grammy museum and Apple was there and said you need to come to the Apple to see some new Logic on iPad tech were working on.    What I found interesting to me is Apple said the future music creators are kids that grew up on iPads and Garage Band and they don't care that much for computers, so were working on  Logic on the iPad because that is where they will want to work.    I don't know if to think that is a cool or scary thought on the future of music creation.

 

 

I'm a high school teacher, and I can tell you forget iPad's even - they only want to work on their phones. In fact, it's myth that "kids today are so tech savvy!". Some certainly are, but many/most are not at all. They know apps on their phones. And even when "computers" are in use in school settings, they are overwhelmingly Chromebooks with very limited functionality. 

[AnotherScott]

8 hours ago, zxcvbnm098 said:

I'm a high school teacher, and I can tell you forget iPad's even - they only want to work on their phones. In fact, it's myth that "kids today are so tech savvy!". Some certainly are, but many/most are not at all. They know apps on their phones. And even when "computers" are in use in school settings, they are overwhelmingly Chromebooks with very limited functionality. 

 

The phrase that stuck out to me in docbop's post was "kids that grew up on iPads." What I see is kids are on tablets from a very young age (most often iPads, though my perception may be skewed by being in an area with a lot of affluence). When they get older, okay, they may live on their phones. but to some extent they're "growing up" on iPads/tablets. But either way, as you say, overall, they're more comfortable in that environment than a Mac/PC environment. To Apple's point then, through whatever combination of tablet/smartphone experience, they're growing up more comfortable on something like an iPad then they are on Macs/PCs... so if, say, as a teen they start wanting to do stuff with music beyond what they can easily do on their phone, their inclination may be to choose the iPad over the desktop/laptop. 

 

Related, even though Apple products have tended to be associated with a more affluent clientele, starting with Garageband and the like on an iPad is cheaper than getting started on a Mac/PC. If that teen is spending their own money, not only is the iPad something they are probably going to be extremely comfortable with and find simpler than going with a laptop, it's also something they can start with more cheaply. The basic $329 iPad goes a long way.

[D. Gauss]

As mentioned earlier. Phones. Not computers. Not ipads. Kids use phones. 

[AnotherScott]

3 hours ago, D. Gauss said:

As mentioned earlier. Phones. Not computers. Not ipads. Kids use phones. 

Again, in my experience, kids more often use iPads. I'm talking about young kids here, pre-teens, and especially single-digit. And a quick google search seems to back up that kids don't typically get smartphones that young. Though that tablet experience does make them instantly comfortable with smartphones, too.

 

Either way, the point is, they're growing up completely comfortable in the tablet/smartphone environment, and less so in the Mac/Windows environments, which justifies the point that was being made, "Apple said the future music creators are kids that grew up on iPads and Garage Band and they don't care that much for computers, so were working on  Logic on the iPad because that is where they will want to work."

[Ibarch]

My kids were given tablets long before phones. Not iPads mind you, but tablets none the less. 

 

Tablet apps are definitely one of the entry points to start making music. Whilst it is wrong to ignore this, it would be equally wrong to consider them the only entry point. Kids get plenty of exposure to other devices like chrome books and computers too from education and from their peers. 

 

I'd also agree that most kids are not as tech savy as per stereotypes. They have limited experience of a few apps and only a skin deep knowledge of tech generally. However, they learn quickly, have no fear of new things and enormous energy to explore the unknown when given the opportunity. 

[Baldwin Funster]

The next generation of kids will have chips in their heads and view digital content like the terminator. I also doubt they will have as much interest in playing 1970s keyboard styles as we were as kids wanting to play 1870s banjo jazz.