Nord Stage 4 Announced

[Keyboardplayer]

To all the dedicated Pianists out there. If you're still sitting on the fence about getting the new Nord Stage 4 digital stage piano/keyboard, this just might help in your decision process. Btw, I'm a longtime keyboard player and I used to have an account under a different handle on the original Music Player Forums that were officiated and sponsored by Keyboard Magazine. I see Casio is sponsoring this forum. I do have accounts on a few other keyboard/music forums, one of them being the Yamaha Synth forum. Furthermore, I have to say I'm really excited about the Clavia Nord Stage 4. No affiliation whatsoever, but those Swedes really know their stuff. And this new YouTube video demonstration really packs a punch. FWIW, I've never heard better pianos on any keyboard currently on the market. I only wish Clavia had given the Stage 4 more polyphony and also Audio/MIDI over USB. Maybe we'll see those additions on the Stage 5. Enjoy!

 

[cphollis]

I'm going to share this video with anyone who wants to get picky about Nord piano actions.  Jeez, that was fun to watch!

[AnotherScott]

Wow. I don't think I've ever seen such speed with such precision! Super impressive, and a fun piece, too. And yeah, if someone says the Nord action isn't responsive enough, I suspect it's your fingers and not the action. 😉 

[Nathanael_I]

Very impressive.  Can’t imagine much that would demand more out of a portable piano.  The triple sensor clearly has note repetition handled. 

[David Emm]

Egad! If that's not the new gold standard for Nord prowess, its close. I was imagining an entire Chuck Jones cartoon with that as the base. Excellent.

[Motif88]

At $5700 USD, flexible split points and audio via usb should be a given...

[AnotherScott]

Their fixation on fixed split points is not related to price... except to the extent that they think the LED indicators are better, and cheaper boards don't have them. (Except NI Kontrol.) To them, I'm afraid, it's a feature, not a bug. 

 

I wonder if maybe all the boards that have audio over USB are built on some kind of Linux, where the software foundation for it already exists, or if any keyboard companies are actually capable of implementing this on their own...?

[Moonglow]

10 hours ago, Devex said:

…If you use one of synth layers for external control, you lose the ability to use that particular synth layer in the S4. 

So no dedicated “Extern” section anymore? To play an external board you must sacrifice a synth layer?

[AnotherScott]

18 minutes ago, Moonglow said:

So no dedicated “Extern” section anymore? To play an external board you must sacrifice a synth layer?

 

The NS3 had two synth sections and two external sections. The NS4 has three sections, each of which can be used for synth OR external (not both). It's better in most cases (you can have 3 synths or 3 externals, which you couldn't before) but there is one combination you lose... you can no longer have two of each, all simultaneously. All the other possible NS3 combinations are still there (2 synth + 1 external, 1 synth + 2 external, etc.), the only one you lose is 2+2, so some people will miss that, but I think more people would prefer the benefit of now being able to do 3 of one or 3 of the other, which you couldn't do before.

[stoken6]

6 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

I wonder if maybe all the boards that have audio over USB are built on some kind of Linux

I don't think so. To run audio-over-USB a keyboard needs only be a USB device (not host) - it's about as complicated as a bluetooth speaker, or wireless headphones.

 

(Disclaimer: not my specialist subject).

 

Cheers, Mike.

[konaboy]

16 hours ago, Keyboardplayer said:

To all the dedicated Pianists out there. If you're still sitting on the fence about getting the new Nord Stage 4 digital stage piano/keyboard, this just might help in your decision process. Btw, I'm a longtime keyboard player and I used to have an account under a different handle on the original Music Player Forums that were officiated and sponsored by Keyboard Magazine. I see Casio is sponsoring this forum. I do have accounts on a few other keyboard/music forums, one of them being the Yamaha Synth forum. Furthermore, I have to say I'm really excited about the Clavia Nord Stage 4. No affiliation whatsoever, but those Swedes really know their stuff. And this new YouTube video demonstration really packs a punch. FWIW, I've never heard better pianos on any keyboard currently on the market. I only wish Clavia had given the Stage 4 more polyphony and also Audio/MIDI over USB. Maybe we'll see those additions on the Stage 5. Enjoy!

 

She would no doubt perform equally well, if not better, on any equivalent instrument from the other manufacturers. For me this demo does nothing to persuade me to buy a NS4 over the competition. Imho this video is about an incredible musician and not so much about the instrument.

 

I know that it's not going to sound that good when I play it.

[Al Quinn]

18 hours ago, Keyboardplayer said:

And this new YouTube video demonstration really packs a punch. FWIW, I've never heard better pianos on any keyboard currently on the market.

It’s the artist not the brush. Natalie is incredible! I think any decent keyboard is going to sound great in her hands. 
 

To be clear, I’m not knocking the Nord Stage 4 as I’ve never played one.

[CyberGene]

On 4/20/2023 at 6:17 PM, 16251 said:

Is this suppose to be an acoustic piano?

Yeah, sounds nasty, nasal and synthetic. I’m wondering if that’s a sample from Yamaha CP70 mixed with some acoustic piano sample or the guy just doesn’t know how to apply proper EQ and messed it up so badly. 

[cphollis]

45 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

Yeah, sounds nasty, nasal and synthetic. I’m wondering if that’s a sample from Yamaha CP70 mixed with some acoustic piano sample or the guy just doesn’t know how to apply proper EQ and messed it up so badly. 

The video labels it as the "White Grand with effects", so a stock preset.  It might even be the default preset on the NS4.  The samples are said to be from John Lennon's piano by the same name.  It's the go-to sample for many Nord players in a live band setting, as it cuts pretty well, holds up when layered, reasonably balanced across the keyboard, and so on.  I don't know if I'd do a solo piano night with it, probably preferring the Faz sample, or maybe the Bosie. 

 

Also, a few of us suspect that there's a better DAC in there vs predecessors.  The same samples are sounding better to new owners.

[AnotherScott]

6 hours ago, konaboy said:

She would no doubt perform equally well, if not better, on any equivalent instrument from the other manufacturers. For me this demo does nothing to persuade me to buy a NS4 over the competition. Imho this video is about an incredible musician and not so much about the instrument.

 

Right. But even from just a hardware eval performance, I don't think the takeaway is supposed to be "Nord actions are better than {whatever}." I think the takeaway is more like, "for those of you who may have been dismissing Nord (or maybe any Nord other than a Nord Grand) because you felt their actions were not of the quality needed to give a really high quality performance... surprise! So for me at least, it's not so much a "here's why a piano player should buy a Nord" as it is "here's why a piano player should not dismiss a Nord."

[stillearning]

3 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

Right. But even from just a hardware eval performance, I don't think the takeaway is supposed to be "Nord actions are better than {whatever}." I think the takeaway is more like, "for those of you who may have been dismissing Nord (or maybe any Nord other than a Nord Grand) because you felt their actions were not of the quality needed to give a really high quality performance... surprise! So for me at least, it's not so much a "here's why a piano player should buy a Nord" as it is "here's why a piano player should not dismiss a Nord."

Agreed. Which for me, begs the question… For those who have played both, is the action on the Stage 4 88 ‘better’ than the Stage 3 88? And more consistent from keyboard to keyboard? I know ‘better’ is very subjective, so I’ll elaborate.

 

I’ve owned and/or played several Stages over the years, and currently have two Stage 3 88s. The actions are noticeably different. I had an original Stage 88, and when I got my first Stage 3 88 I had to send it back, as the action was very stiff and sluggish. They sent me another, which felt better, more like my original Stage. 
 

A year later, my Stage 3 needed warranty work, so I made arrangements to drive to Sweetwater (about 3 1/2 hours each way) for the repair, for which they had pre-ordered the needed part so I could wait while it was repaired. Turns out, it was the wrong part, so they graciously gave me a new Stage 3 to take back home with me, (shout out to Sweetwater customer service!) with the idea that I could keep the new one, or swap it back for mine once it was repaired. The replacement they gave me again had noticeably different action. Slow to respond, harder to play fast passages. I traded back for my Stage 3, once repairs were completed.

 

Recently, when the Stage 4 was imminent, and Stage 3 prices dropped significantly, I decided to buy and keep a second Stage 3 as a backup. I drove to Sweetwater to buy one and took mine with me to compare side by side with a potential new one, due to my past experiences. The new one felt different, but close, and played easy enough, so I bought it. I thought the newer one might break in, but after many hours over several months, the two still feel slightly different. 
 

Has anyone else had an experience like this, with Nord, or any manufacturer when comparing identical models? 
 

I’m seriously considering taking the plunge on a Stage 4, but am reluctant. And if I do, I will certainly make the drive to try before I buy as I don’t mind going there one bit! Watching the Natalie Tenenbaum video has me wanting a 4. Yes, I know I’m not at her level, but I still like a fast, playable, (but still weighted) action. In anyone here’s opinion, can I expect the newer ‘triple sensor’ action to be any faster than the current Stage 3, and are they likely to be more consistent from batch to batch? 
 

And yes, I know I don’t need a 4, but I do want one!

[cphollis]

1 hour ago, stillearning said:

 

Recently, when the Stage 4 was imminent, and Stage 3 prices dropped significantly, I decided to buy and keep a second Stage 3 as a backup. I drove to Sweetwater to buy one and took mine with me to compare side by side with a potential new one, due to my past experiences. The new one felt different, but close, and played easy enough, so I bought it. I thought the newer one might break in, but after many hours over several months, the two still feel slightly different. 
 

Has anyone else had an experience like this, with Nord, or any manufacturer when comparing identical models? 

Yes.  I bought an early one, then a recent one.  The later keybed has a nicer, tighter feel, the switch gear feels a bit better, the external graphics are updated, and the end cheek blocks are much better.  So the later one is the nicer of the two.

[cphollis]

Also:

15 hours ago, stillearning said:

For those who have played both, is the action on the Stage 4 88 ‘better’ than the Stage 3 88? And more consistent from keyboard to keyboard? I know ‘better’ is very subjective, so I’ll elaborate.

......

And yes, I know I don’t need a 4, but I do want one!

As you suspect, Nord is aggressively upgrading their hardware builds during the lifetime of their models.  As I mentioned, I have both early and late examples of the NS3C, and they are different builds in a very nice way.

 

I think this continual improvement philosophy extends to their partnership with Fatar, which got a warning shot when they used the Kawai action in the Nord Grand.  Every time I get a new Nord, their actions seem to get better and better.

 

My recent NP5 73 is perhaps the best weighted action I've ever played on a Nord, and compares well with a Yammie AG, for example.  It's nicer than it needs to be, if that makes sense.  Over on the Nord forum, many new NS4 owners are saying the same buttery weighted action is showing up on the NS4 equivalents, albeit with an aftertouch strip underneath.  If it's a standard Fatar keybed, then it's great.  But I bet it's not a standard Fatar keybed action due to Nord's now-considerable volumes, as they are not as boutique as they used to be.

 

So, yes, the consensus is that the NS4 88 weighted action is "better" than its NS3 predecessor.  I also think that Nord reserves the right to improve whatever is in there today, and the keybed is not excluded.  So if they come up with a keybed improvement during the model run, they'll put it in.  And the NS4 will likely have a very long run.

 

I don't know about you, but I realize that the NS4 will require me to learn to play it in a new way, relying more on the sliders and section presets to vary the sounds, and less on dialing up presets.  I'm planning at least three months to do this as well as recreate all my patches etc.

[stillearning]

Thank you for your response, that was helpful! It’s becoming a tough choice for me. Having two identical Stage 3s has definite advantages in that I can leave one at a rehearsal space, etc, and still have one at home to practice on and create patches, then use a laptop to port the patches over. I can easily afford to keep both S3s, or trade one for an S4, but not buy two new S4s. That would put me in a position of having to logically justify that expenditure to the woman. 

[cphollis]

2 minutes ago, stillearning said:

That would put me in a position of having to logically justify that expenditure to the woman.

That took me a few months as well, but I just got the green light to proceed.  I will probably run for a while with a single NS4C, keeping a NS3C as a backup in case the NS4C has a complete meltdown.  Once it's clear that the NS4 is the way forward, the NS3C will get sold and a second NS4C will be on its way, maybe a year or so from now.  Since my wife really likes the band I'm in, she's a bit more supportive than during my prog rock era.

[stillearning]

50 minutes ago, cphollis said:

…Since my wife really likes the band I'm in, she's a bit more supportive than during my prog rock era.

I know where you’re coming from. My prog rock days were far more expensive than a mere couple of Nords!

[Paul Woodward]

Just watched that video and nearly quit playing. Wow.

[16251]

I just watched the video in question.

 

At least she's not Hiromi-happy.   Also, not to beat a dead horse; Nords sound great when I listen to others.

 

[AnotherScott]

18 hours ago, stillearning said:

Has anyone else had an experience like this, with Nord, or any manufacturer when comparing identical models? 

 

Yup.

 

When I first played the original Kross and Krome 88s side-by-side, which ostensibly had the same kind of action, I was surprised to find that I liked the Kross action, but didn't really care for the Krome action. But I was even more surprised when trying another Kross and Krome 88 side-by-side quite some time later, and had the reverse experience! So yeah, two Kross that felt different from each other, and two Krome that felt different from each other. Maybe they changed something over time, maybe manufacturing tolerances are such that different "in spec" production runs can feel different, maybe they sub-contract some or all of the relevant manufacturing out to more than one supplier and the ones from supplier A feel different from the ones from suppler B, who knows...

 

I've had similar experiences with some Casio models. (And while I've experienced variation in Yamaha GHS actions, I can't be sure as to whether I've ever experienced those differences in different units of the exact same model.)

[Chummy]

I agree with Woody 100%. Btw I've been following Natalie for some time now, she's incredible! I love her playing.

Very few players can make me feel humbled regarding to my playing skills. She's one of them - and in a great way.

I've been studying her chromatic triad technique.. Not something I'd think even exists if it weren't for her.

 

As for the Nord, It has a new keybed, innit? While I disliked the NS3 88  action for advanced piano technique (and you can trust me on this) 

I can't say anything about the Stage 4. I'd be very intrigued and open minded if I get to play one in the future.

@CPHOLLIS 

very interesting.. The NS3 88 I gigged with years ago was a loaner from a colleague who's also a pro musician. And his was one of the earlier batches (bought around 2017-2018). I wonder how better those could have gotten.

[Iconoclast]

Got the call from SweetH20, Stage4 HA 73 enroute.

 

My studio is becoming a bit of a hoarders paradise. Need to sell some stuff. Anyone interested in a NS388?

[Iconoclast]

Received a NS4 73 and finally got it set up to play.

The action is definitely different from the NS3 88. Better? I don't know. A little livelier? It's got a little more bounce in a snappy (not mushy) kind of way.

One major ass pain is the users guitde is on version 1.0 but the current firmware is still on 0.98. And one of the things yet to be implemented is the category search for the synth presets, making this feature essentially worthless until implemented. Some of the youtube reviewers clearly have v1.0 and it's frustrating to not have their capability yet.

The effects section is a massive quantum leap forward. Not just in the number of layers, but in the number and quality of effects in each section. Although many were underwhelmed by the NS4, the effects section alone make's it a whole new instrument.

[mobi]

20 minutes ago, Iconoclast said:

One major ass pain is the users guitde is on version 1.0 but the current firmware is still on 0.98. And one of the things yet to be implemented is the category search for the synth presets, making this feature essentially worthless until implemented.

 

In the meantime, use Nord Sound Manager v.7.70, to scroll thru Programs/Presets

 

There are around 30 o so well documented bugs in the Nord User's forum right now, with the NS3 took them around 2 or 3 years to have a more or less bug free OS released

 

[Iconoclast]

That's a great work around. I typically have Mainstage open right next to my Nord, so that will work great. And probably give me a little mor SA on what's available.

[Finster]

On 4/22/2023 at 1:13 PM, stillearning said:

Agreed. Which for me, begs the question… For those who have played both, is the action on the Stage 4 88 ‘better’ than the Stage 3 88? And more consistent from keyboard to keyboard? I know ‘better’ is very subjective, so I’ll elaborate.

 

I’ve owned and/or played several Stages over the years, and currently have two Stage 3 88s. The actions are noticeably different. I had an original Stage 88, and when I got my first Stage 3 88 I had to send it back, as the action was very stiff and sluggish. They sent me another, which felt better, more like my original Stage. 
 

A year later, my Stage 3 needed warranty work, so I made arrangements to drive to Sweetwater (about 3 1/2 hours each way) for the repair, for which they had pre-ordered the needed part so I could wait while it was repaired. Turns out, it was the wrong part, so they graciously gave me a new Stage 3 to take back home with me, (shout out to Sweetwater customer service!) with the idea that I could keep the new one, or swap it back for mine once it was repaired. The replacement they gave me again had noticeably different action. Slow to respond, harder to play fast passages. I traded back for my Stage 3, once repairs were completed.

 

Recently, when the Stage 4 was imminent, and Stage 3 prices dropped significantly, I decided to buy and keep a second Stage 3 as a backup. I drove to Sweetwater to buy one and took mine with me to compare side by side with a potential new one, due to my past experiences. The new one felt different, but close, and played easy enough, so I bought it. I thought the newer one might break in, but after many hours over several months, the two still feel slightly different. 
 

Has anyone else had an experience like this, with Nord, or any manufacturer when comparing identical models? 
 

I’m seriously considering taking the plunge on a Stage 4, but am reluctant. And if I do, I will certainly make the drive to try before I buy as I don’t mind going there one bit! Watching the Natalie Tenenbaum video has me wanting a 4. Yes, I know I’m not at her level, but I still like a fast, playable, (but still weighted) action. In anyone here’s opinion, can I expect the newer ‘triple sensor’ action to be any faster than the current Stage 3, and are they likely to be more consistent from batch to batch? 
 

And yes, I know I don’t need a 4, but I do want one!

 

 

1st post! 

 

"For those who have played both, is the action on the Stage 4 88 ‘better’ than the Stage 3 88?"

 

Yes. Unequivocally. 

 

"Watching the Natalie Tenenbaum video has me wanting a 4. Yes, I know I’m not at her level, but I still like a fast, playable, (but still weighted) action."

 

There's nothing she's playing I couldn't play just as "fast."

 

But speed isn't really the barometer. Listening to the fastest guitar players usually makes me want to shoot myself. Fast doesn't necessarily mean good. 

 

I mean, you really want to be able to play the F@$*! out of an instrument, be expressive, hit hard, hit soft, fast, slow, everything, and I've never felt I could do that on earlier versions of the Nord Stage.

 

I realize action and keyboard feel is highly personal and based on years of what you've been playing, what you grew up playing, what kind of music you play, who your influences are, what makes your hands happy, etc. 

 

but for me, personally, someone who's picky about action, I've been turned off by the feel of previous Nord Stages.

 

This is the first Nord Stage I enjoyed playing.