Kurz PC-4

[Mighty Motif Max]

9 minutes ago, SMcD said:

Stiffer action than you expected, eh? Do you happen to know how it compares to the Kurzweil PC3? I have a PC3LE8 and I'm thinking of upgrading to a PC4 this year; I assume the LE8 had the same action as its big brother and want to know how they compare.

 

I heard the PC4 action isn't too bad for synths, so I was hoping that'd mean it wasn't too heavy. I prefer a bit of lightness in my piano action - for instance, I find the Yamaha CP4 almost unplayable. Hopefully it's not as stiff as that one?

I can't comment on the PC3 88's action comparison, but if the CP4 is almost unplayable, you'll hate the PC4 IMO.

[SMcD]

Crap. Thought I had my rig upgrade choices locked in, but I guess I'll have to do some more research on different boards.

 

I must say I'm surprised. A few other people on the forum have said that the PC4 action strikes a decent balance - obviously it's never ideal to play synth/organ on weighted action, but I'd heard that it's at least doable on this board.

 

I've said this before, but to me the CP4 feels like pushing a wooden desk. The action is just so dense. Much heavier than most of the AP's I've played. Maybe the takeaway here is that my piano chops are weak (on the other hand, last week I sat at a well-maintained baby grand and the hammers just flew with no extra difficulty for me). I love the idea of having a single board that does piano and synth well, and I thought it'd be the PC4, but maybe not.

[AnotherScott]

I played them years apart, so a grain of salt may be in order, but to my memory, PC4 feels lighter than CP4. 

[Fleer]

3 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

I played them years apart, so a grain of salt may be in order, but to my memory, PC4 feels lighter than CP4. 

Indeed, and still feels pretty good to me, even better than many (weighted) Fatar actions. I was and am pleasantly surprised. 

[Mighty Motif Max]

Interesting - I'm no fan of the CP4 action, but I find the PC4 to be stiffer to the initial touch and then lighter in the rest of the key travel, but slower on the return.

[tonybanksfan]

On 2/7/2023 at 8:43 AM, CEB said:

I picked up the PC4 from the Fed Ex store and went straight to rehearsal. Went full virgin straight out of the box.  I laid the old S90XS on the floor and plugged in the PC4. I quit playing music for the most part three weeks ago. I play with a blues combo and they rehearsed yesterday.  All I need is a piano, a Rhodes, a Clav for one tune and strings for a Gary Moore tune.  
 

Taking the PC4 out of the box the keys felt unweighted for some reason but when I turned on the board the action was heavy.   I adjusted the velocity curves to what worked okay. 

 

First new board since the MP-5 where I didn’t hate the pianos out of the box. The factory sounds are good.  The action is stiffer than I expected.  I don’t love the action but I don’t hate it ( I usually hate new unfamiliar actions). I need to read the manual and learn how sound and patch control works and how edit EQ and effects.  The setup my favorites… however that is done. Mostly I need to play the hell out of it and get married to the action. That should take about a week.  
 

So far the Pros are : Weight and Sounds.   The Cons: lack of free top space to lay crap on.  

 

What keyboard stand do you have there CEB?

[CEB]

It’s this stand. It has more parts than I like but it does a great job of riding a 2 manual clone on the top tier. 
 

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ZStd2Tier--on-stage-stands-ks7365-ej-pro-heavy-duty-folding-z-stand-with-2nd-tier

 

I never take it apart. I can bring in the sides close enough together I can throw it in the van. If I had to assemble it at the gig I wouldn’t use it. But It works well. 

[Moonglow]

3 hours ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

…I find the PC4 to be stiffer to the initial touch and then lighter in the rest of the key travel, but slower on the return.

Nice observation, MMM. That’s pretty much how I found it, too.

[CEB]

Of the boards I have the PC4 action seems to most resemble my Kawai MP5. It’s a little sluggish but not too bad. For me the gold standard action for gigging boards is still the Yamaha Balance Actions you find in the S90XS, later Motifs, and Montage8. 

[time4jazz]

8 hours ago, CEB said:

For me the gold standard action for gigging boards is still the Yamaha Balance Actions you find in the S90XS, later Motifs, and Montage8. 

Is this also the action in the CP73 (which I really like)?

[AnotherScott]

6 minutes ago, time4jazz said:

Is this also the action in the CP73 (which I really like)?

No.

[Theo Verelst]

The feeling of "action" derives from weight, spring constant and the actual playing range of velocity values. Some people can play really hard (I *can* too, but don't prefer it) and feel the digital instruments sound, let's say properly loud. Of course electronics and computers translate the striking energy to the velocity value, and the digital instrument produces a tone with hopefully some correlation to the "feel" of the keyboard.

 

It is very questionable the response is like an acoustic instrument in terms of play-to-sound energy  although in principle it is possible.

 

T

[Synthaholic]

On 2/1/2023 at 11:46 PM, Synthaholic said:

If I get time at a gig I'll record my version of the old Ray Price hit 'Heartaches By The Numbers' where I use it in the solo. It's a lot of fun to play.

A random performance, this one from a Valentines Day event yesterday. I'm using the Jensen 'Strat' PROGRAM for the solo. (The vocal harmony is courtesy of the TC Helicon VoiceLive Touch 2, a really awesome little unit). BTW, this was created using a nice app called Dolby On, for Android. Quick and easy, it records in mono (for now - they're working on it) but adds all kinds of Dolby goodness and stereo widening, etc. after recording. Couldn't be easier.

 

 

[ABECK]

On 2/2/2023 at 12:10 AM, Mighty Motif Max said:

That MKII Rhodes is my favorite Rhodes sample of all time -

Downloaded for my K2700.  It is fantastic.  First impression - it's the last EP sample I'll ever need!  BUT, I'll hold judgement till after I hear it in a live context.  So far it sounds better than the stock EPs, which are already damn good.  

[CEB]

My learning curve has progressed slowly because my technical needs are low. I have been just playing the hell out of the pianos.  I setup some basic multis. 
 

Next goal is to learn to edit multis such as octave/pitch shifting zones in layer etc…. I don’t see multi edit screen like the Combi screens in the Kronos.  I’ve been playing old Hornsby stuff for enjoyment and I want to setup the proper pad layers. 
 

I see there is editor software for the PC. I’m going to download it. Does the software add functionality?

 

Thanks

[jarrell]

Please be careful using the editor software. I used the PC3 editor years ago, and it scrambled the content of my PC3 (not bad, but things got a little wonky). It does not have a good track record amongst users. I would first back up your PC4 onto a thumb drive, then use it only to look at patches and multis, not changing anything. Then, if you feel comfortable, go ahead and edit.

 

If you do use it, let us know your experiences.

 

You may want to join/look at the Mastering VAST PC4 forum for info about the PC4 in general, and also about the editor.

 

The software doesn't add functionality as far as I know, but as it uses your monitor screen as opposed to the PC4 display, it can display much more information per screen, and so makes for a much improved overview of whatever you are editing. Also using a mouse and keyboard makes for easier data entry (like naming patches!).

 

Disclaimer - I have not used the PC4 editor. Also, a new editor version was released last year; it may be more stable.

[CEB]

Thanks a lot sir!

[CEB]

Jimmy was a huge help!

 

 

[Delaware Dave]

30 minutes ago, CEB said:

Jimmy was a huge help!

 

 

 

 

 

[CEB]

I’m starting to bond with the PC4 action. But that is what happens when I play the hell out of something.  
 

It’s a tad sluggish compared to some of my other boards but I’m a spaz and spew too many fast notes anyway.  Especially on the Yamaha balanced action. 
 

I like the brighter piano patches set with the harder velocity curves. They darken nicely with easier touches.  

[Dockeys]

CEB would you consider the action somewhere between the S90es/montage and say the lower end modx8? Can’t find one of these in my part of the woods to try. I like the sounds and the layout but would need to try the action. 

[Theo Verelst]

 

[CEB]

7 hours ago, Dockeys said:

CEB would you consider the action somewhere between the S90es/montage and say the lower end modx8? Can’t find one of these in my part of the woods to try. I like the sounds and the layout but would need to try the action. 

I’m not sure. I haven’t spent enough time on the MODX and the time I did spend was quite a while ago when the local shop first got them.  My gut is it’s sort of on par with the modx but different. I think the initial key stroke is crisper. Maybe Medeli was trying to capture the feel of escapement.  It’s different but better is probably a personal thing. Sorry I’m not much help. 

[Dockeys]

Thanks for the reply CEB, appreciate it. 👍

[ABECK]

On 2/17/2023 at 2:50 PM, jarrell said:

Please be careful using the editor software. I used the PC3 editor years ago, and it scrambled the content of my PC3 (not bad, but things got a little wonky).

 

You may want to join/look at the Mastering VAST PC4 forum for info about the PC4 in general, and also about the editor.

 

I played around a bit using the editor for the K2700, but decided to switch back to just using the keyboard UI.  An editor isn't going to help me much if I need to make quick changes at a gig.  So far, I'm finding it fairly easy to do what I need from the front panel.  There are some shortcuts hidden in there (having the manual handy when learning is a good thing).  Most recently I've been going through VAST editing videos on youtube.  It seems like even videos from the K2000 are applicable, so there's a ton there.  The more I dig and learn, the more I am blown away by the architecture.  The routings and modulation possibilities seem endless.

[Delaware Dave]

11 minutes ago, ABECK said:

I played around a bit using the editor for the K2700, but decided to switch back to just using the keyboard UI.  An editor isn't going to help me much if I need to make quick changes at a gig.  So far, I'm finding it fairly easy to do what I need from the front panel.  There are some shortcuts hidden in there (having the manual handy when learning is a good thing).  Most recently I've been going through VAST editing videos on youtube.  It seems like even videos from the K2000 are applicable, so there's a ton there.  The more I dig and learn, the more I am blown away by the architecture.  The routings and modulation possibilities seem endless.

It's the shxt ...  I've had mine for 12 years, still learn stuff.

[felis]

I've had a PC4 for a few years now, and just got a PC4-7 today.  I immediately feel right at home with the keys on the PC4-7.

I've always been more of a synth guy than trying to get a realistic piano feel though.

I'm comfortable with the 88 key version now, but liked the 76 better right away.

[Fleer]

1 hour ago, felis said:

I've had a PC4 for a few years now, and just got a PC4-7 today.  I immediately feel right at home with the keys on the PC4-7.

I've always been more of a synth guy than trying to get a realistic piano feel though.

I'm comfortable with the 88 key version now, but liked the 76 better right away.

Do tell us more!

[felis]

1st thing I noticed is that it boots up a little quicker than the PC4. 

Maybe I need to get the latest OS in the PC4.

Also, the aftertouch kicks in a little easier.  That was my biggest complaint about the PC4.

 

They're really very similar except for fewer keys and a different feel to them.

I'm not too good at describing actions, but it just feels right to me - no adjustment period.

Also seems a little quicker on the rebound.

 

Craziness occurred right away, thinking maybe I should try to trade the 88 keys for another 76.

I have a setup upstairs and downstairs. 

I'm moving more towards softsynths, but the Kurzweils are the only boards I want to use to control them.

Anyways, it's not just a honeymoon period after having the PC4 for a few years, and several other Kurzweils before that.

But I've got to say, I love this PC4-7 right out of the gate.  Instant bonding with this one.

 

Oh - and at 20 pounds, I was expecting it to maybe feel a bit flimsy, but it's not at all.

That said, I don't play gigs - only home use, so I don't know how it would stand up to

constant load ins/outs.

[Synthaholic]

3 hours ago, felis said:

I don't know how it would stand up to constant load ins/outs.

It does!