Fagen deconstructs Peg

[TommyRude]

I hadn't seen this before (might be a repeat)

 

 

[Docbop]

Here's part 2

 

 

[Theo Verelst]

"You don't have to be a Nerd to achieve A grade top pop status, but it sure helps"

 

Among others I appreciate his effort to prevent the degeneration of composing as well as the deterioration of harmonizing.

 

T

[AROIOS]

The transition from the Gmaj9-#F7alt-Fmaj9-E7alt-bEmaj9-D7alt chromatic movement, to the Cmaj7-Bm7#5 (or bEadd9/B, or Bmu, however we call it) signature lick, always sounded abrupt to me.

I understand that without that abruptness, Steely Dan would have been just another run-of-the-mill Pop Funk act. But I couldn't care less about sounding different/"fresh" just for the sake of standing out, and always preferred the more predictable arrangement of Larry Carlton's "Room 335" based on the latter motif.
 

 

[konaboy]

this is a ripped excerpt of the homespun tapes, you can buy and download the original here:

https://www.homespun.com/shop/product/concepts-for-jazz-rock-piano/

[nadroj]

Huh. Wasn’t til I watched that til I realised how similar the chorus of Peg is to the bridge/main refrain of “Georgy Porgy”, which came out 2(?) years later. 
 

David Paich and Steely Dan were birds of a feather, though.

[Stokely]

I have spent more time learning Peg than any other 20 songs I've ever learned...possibly excluding many attempts at Foreplay from Boston.

It's just very alien playing compared to the "normal" rock n roll I've always done.  I love Steely Dan as a listener and own a couple Fagen albums but as a player this was just like learning to play again.  My hands just don't have muscle memory for those types of chords and my brain has to stay very focused.    Case in point, with even relatively simple chords like say a G minor 7  I still think of this as "play a b minor over G" though I'm getting better at this.   On any other song we play I can go on autopilot, can explore inversions without thinking etc, but not this one.    I've had a blast getting it down though I still struggle with the rhythm of playing the verse chord pattern with the melody line that comes in on the 2nd verse.   Also I'm singing one of the (many on the original) backup vocals while trying to play the chorus so that's a challenge.

My only hope to learn it was to use youtube because I can't read music and don't know more advanced jazzy chords when I see them written.  I found a few how-to videos, they all had differences but all sounded like they'd work     And when I've seen Donald Fagen play it he plays it different each time so I don't sweat getting it exact, it just needs to sound right with the vocal and bass.

[ProfD]

Donald Fagen had the benefit of being a songwriter, composer and musician in the 1970s.

 

Fagen and Becker surrounded themselves with an incredible cast of musicians too.  Those sidemen played a huge role in bringing life to their arrangements.

 

IMO, the 1970s was the greatest time period musically especially among musicians who were adventurous enough to incorporate all elements of music (Jazz, Rock, Blues, R&B, etc.).😎

 

 

[GovernorSilver]

5 hours ago, konaboy said:

this is a ripped excerpt of the homespun tapes, you can buy and download the original here:

https://www.homespun.com/shop/product/concepts-for-jazz-rock-piano/

 

Absolutely!  It's worth supporting Homespun.

 

"Peg" was part of my childhood soundtrack.    

 

Here Tim Pierce gets Jay Graydon to teach him the guitar solo ("now you and Dean Parks can both play the solo!"), and share some anecdotes.  A number of heavyweight guitarists recorded solos for "Peg".   

 

Graydon states he was going into bebop land, like everyone else, until Fagen said "Think blues!".  

 

Later, Graydon learned that Becker and Fagen had selected his solo by hearing "Peg" on the radio. 

 

 

[harmonizer]

"Peg" is such an incredibly wonderful song. You can enjoy it as an upbeat, catchy and dance-able song.

The fact that it is based on such unconventional chord structures keeps it more fun under repeated playing or examination.

And then of course there are the impossible multitracked Michael McDonald harmonies on the chorus - I have mostly transcribed them but probably do not have all the notes.

Our current 7-piece band probably has the piece parts to do a decent cover (we would be singing most of McDonald's voices but not all), but our bass player hates the song, so we're never gonna try it.

[Stokely]

We simplify the chorus harmonies to the extreme...at least until/if the bass player or guitarist ever get so comfortable as to join me   I do the high first note and most obvious harmony line, which may actually combine stuff from several of the MM multitracked ones.  Basically they just need to work with the chords and lead vocal.  There are some decent covers on youtube where bands have simplified things, I often look for good covers to help me (and my band) pull off complex studio arrangements.  Basically it's "get the essence" and don't die on the hill of chasing details.

The groove is the main thing to get right on this song.

But yes I grew up with this song in the skating rink   If you'd asked me as a younger player if this was a complex song, I wouldn't have said it was.  At a distance it sounds like a simple dance song (with a couple breaks).  That's because the melody is not complicated I think...the chords change a lot underneath but that's not something the casual listener is going to notice.

[GovernorSilver]

I read somewhere that Fagen played melodica on the track.  I always thought the high note that played with horns was a synth, but melodica makes perfect sense.  

 

 

[harmonizer]

That looks like Carolyn Leonhart as one of the backup vocalists in the back row. If it is, I would guess the woman next to her would be just as competent. Imagine doing Peg with these 3 backup vocalists: Michael McDonald, Carolyn Leonhart, and another woman singer as good as her.

[GovernorSilver]

Don't forget Boz Skaggs on rhythm guitar.  I hear he's a decent vocalist himself.  

[CyberGene]

Not sure how many of you know Warren Bernhardt (the other guy in the video who is a host/interviewer?) but, unless it has been practiced in advance, he shows an amazing ability to replay the chords on a Rhodes piano almost immediately he hears what the piano plays. What a perfect pitch!

 

I discovered him not less than 20 years ago since I used to listen to Steps Ahead and he was a member briefly. I then discovered his own records. AFAIK he was a close friend with Bill Evans and his playing is to a certain degree influenced by Bill’s. A local Bulgarian jazz radio host said he was actually a physicist but I can’t find it that is really true. But it’s worth checking him out if you haven’t heard him. 
 

P.S. Well, I feel stupid. I just opened the Wikipedia article about him and yes, he studied Chemistry and Physics but also:

 

Bernhardt toured as the musical director with Steely Dan in the United States from 1993 to 1994,[3] and can be heard on Steely Dan's Alive in America album. 
 

That probably explains his ability to “replay” the chords. Nevertheless, a great pianist 👍🏻

[Adan]

I had that Homespun tape many years ago.  Enjoyed it though thought the thematic concept of "all our songs are blues-based" was a bit of a stretch.  The Fagen quote that has stuck with me the most went something like "I have a very limited vocal range, so we just used my vocals as the starting point and built the songs around it." 

[Al Quinn]

Those videos are awesome! I hadn't seen them before. Thanks for sharing. I've played Peg a few times through the years. Not my favorite Steely Dan tune but lots of fun.

 

Warren Bernhardt is one my favorite jazz pianists. I had read somewhere that he lived with Bill Evans for a while in NYC and that Bill Evans was a fan. Someone (I forget who) asked Bill Evans for lessons but he said he couldn't do it and recommended Warren instead. For anyone unfamiliar with Warren and interested in hearing more his Trio '83 album with Peter Erskine and Eddie Gomez is fantastic.

 

I saw Steely Dan with Warren and Peter Erskine; it was an amazing concert. It was some sort of melding of Steely Dan, Weather Report, and Steps Ahead that worked beautifully.

 

I remember seeing Larry Carlton in concert where he talked about Peg (actually he talked about a lot of his recordings which I found very interesting). It was a while ago but I recall him saying that he played a solo on Peg but his solo didn't make it onto the final recording. He took it kind of hard. He recorded Room 335, which is based on the Peg vamp, as a way of sharing his ideas. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall listening to Fagan and Becker choosing between Larry and Jay Graydon's solos. Who knows, maybe there were even more guitarists solos to choose from.

 

 

[Morrissey]

2 minutes ago, Al Quinn said:

Who knows, maybe there were even more guitarists solos to choose from

There were MANY.  I'll try to find a source as to the exact number but Fagan and Becker had a bunch of top shelf players take a shot at this solo before they found one they liked.

[Morrissey]

In case this thread causes folks to revisit this tune, here is a webpage I've appreciated... a fellow took the time to write (and post!) pretty good charts for the entire band:

 

https://www.grantobrien.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=23&Itemid=130

 

 

 

Also, @KeyboardEric made a good tutorial: 

 

[nadroj]

12 hours ago, Adan said:

I had that Homespun tape many years ago.  Enjoyed it though thought the thematic concept of "all our songs are blues-based" was a bit of a stretch.  The Fagen quote that has stuck with me the most went something like "I have a very limited vocal range, so we just used my vocals as the starting point and built the songs around it." 

Funny you should say that. I was talking to a bandmate about this video last night. He’s a big Steely Dan fan (“I was probably playing those tunes before you were even born!”) and he also commented that it had never crossed his mind to think of Peg as a blues before. 

[Mills Dude]

14 minutes ago, nadroj said:

Funny you should say that. I was talking to a bandmate about this video last night. He’s a big Steely Dan fan (“I was probably playing those tunes before you were even born!”) and he also commented that it had never crossed his mind to think of Peg as a blues before. 

The verse for Peg is definitely blues form, or rather "Dan-skewed" blues with major 7ths resolving to Mu chords but the form is rather straight, even the turnaround.  The descending intro with the tritone subs kinda throws one off the scent.  Its a beautifully constructed pop tune that succinctly shows all those "Dan" traits I love.  

 

There's a nice deconstruction on the web here -- https://colchesterguitarteacher.com/2020/07/08/jazz-rock-lesson-how-to-play-peg-by-steely-dan-chords-tab/ -- which includes a link to this vid.

 

I had this video in the 80s.  My first job, I worked at a small video standards conversion company in NJ (NTSC - PAL conversions).  The company that made this video was one of the clients.  The dudes in the studio knew I was a big muso and jazz fan and would dub me VHS copies of a bunch of these vids.  Had one from Steve Gadd, Jaco Pastorius, Richard Tee and a bunch of others.  

 

Warren Berhardt is a monster player.

[Adan]

30 minutes ago, Mills Dude said:

The verse for Peg is definitely blues form, or rather "Dan-skewed" blues with major 7ths resolving to Mu chords but the form is rather straight, even the turnaround.  The descending intro with the tritone subs kinda throws one off the scent.  Its a beautifully constructed pop tune that succinctly shows all those "Dan" traits I love.  

 

 

Yeah, I can see that.  The verse, for instance, is clearly I-IV-V in majors.  I just had the impression watching the video that they were bent on finding a theme and settled on "it's all blues based."  While there's a big kernel of truth to that, I don't feel it helps me in appreciating or playing the music of Steely Dan.  It felt like a theoretical overlay to give the video unity.  But whatever.  It didn't detract from anything either.

 

Bernhardt helps make that video special.  His musical talent speaks for itself but his warmth and humanity are evident when he speaks.

[Geoff Grace]

15 hours ago, Adan said:

The Fagen quote that has stuck with me the most went something like "I have a very limited vocal range, so we just used my vocals as the starting point and built the songs around it." 

It’s a little like writing to the strength of the samples. You’ve got to accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative… and don’t mess with mister in between.

 

BTW, where’s Tom? This is a Steely Dan thread, and he’s not here? We must restore order in the universe. Paging @ITGITC

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[GovernorSilver]

Cued up the video to the part where they talk about the "Peg" lead guitar takes.  The two that they let us hear don't have much blues in them.

 

Really cool that they got Bernard Purdie and Chuck Rainey in there to jam.

 

The jam on "Peg" at the end shows Jon Herrington improvising for a change, as he typically plays a solo that he wrote for himself to play "Peg" onstage.

 

 

[Theo Verelst]

There's major blues elements and minor blues elements, Fagen's piano exactness to me is very crafty in the major blues departement, ruling a lot of possible bends in and out, and forcing the song rhythm much more accurate than the epiano player. The blues examples in the last fragment are clear, I don't think there is unclearness about what is what for blues players. Of course what fits in the song is a matter of what the composer wants, which imo is a specific design.

 

T

[dongna]

I could listen to Fagen and Becker all day...

 

[Fagan] "And there ya go... in other words {shrug}" [Becker] "Speaks for itself, really..."

[Theo Verelst]

I thought so, given the musical context.

 

T

[TommyRude]

On 8/19/2022 at 7:05 PM, Adan said:

Enjoyed it though thought the thematic concept of "all our songs are blues-based" was a bit of a stretch. 

Part of me agrees with this.  The other part says "Thank you Mr. Fagan sir-sensei-lord-master-of-song-construction for illuminating me!"  Now back to the task of unscrambling 50 years of what I think blues-based is.

[Steve Nathan]

On 8/19/2022 at 12:09 PM, GovernorSilver said:

I read somewhere that Fagen played melodica on the track.  I always thought the high note that played with horns was a synth, but melodica makes perfect sense.  

 

 

I. just can't help but love this 'cause my best bud and favorite drummer Shannon Forrest is laying the groove down. 😎

[Ivan May]

Ironically, Donald Fagen did not even play on Peg. Don Grolnick played the clavinet on that song (which was fed through an MXR phase shifter) and Paul Griffin played the Fender Rhodes and contributed some vocals to the song.