Tired of Playing Horn Parts?

[RABid]

In my first band I was second lead guitarist and played trumpet on a couple songs. Being a single horn player to cover horn section parts, it is like a rhythm guitarist who only plays single notes. I would never do that again.

 

In my first band as a keyboardist I happily took on horn section parts just to have something to do. 

 

Second band as a keyboardist, new wave and synth pop had taken over. Goodbye horn parts, I was too busy covering keys. Lots of keys.

 

This past Christmas the music director at church asked if I would cover horns on songs that did not need drums. What he gave me was orchestral horn transcriptions that reminded me of Bach 3 part inventions, but with more chords. Luckily they ended up being out of channels on the in ear mixing system so I played drums every song.

[retrokeys]

I find the best way to handle this request/demand is to smile sweetly and say "I'll try." Then is select the worst emulation I can find on the keyboard making sure the cheese factor is high,   That usually  puts paid to the request and all further ones. I've worked with horn bands. I love 'em and wish there were more around but like a lot of you here. I am not a horn player.

[Baldwin Funster]

IDK I think it would be fun to play some version of 25 or 6 to 4 horns on that song. Unfortunately my favorite horn app doesn't have a 'bone that slides (c'mon guido). I may try anyways.

[Bobadohshe]

I'm surprised I haven't seen or chimed in on this thread until now.

 

A huge part of my life is playing horns parts on keys, sometimes with real horn players, sometimes without.

 

If you match the FEEL, and the actual NOTES the horns are playing, and it is the type of song with a punchy big horn sound, then a real horn section augmented by keys can sound great.

 

Some of you have probably seen this before; here is a video of my band playing September with me supplementing the horn section. It just makes it sound bigger.

 

 

 

[Bill H.]

Awesome playing and awesome vocals! Your singer just nails that high A past the falsetto parts in full voice and holds it for at least a full bar! 🤩

[Dave Weiser]

17 hours ago, nursers said:

 

So so true - I've only had the privilege once of playing in a large orchestra (43 people) for a production of JC Superstar. As the synth player there's a section of 'I Don't Know How To Love Him' where the whole orchestra aside from me was playing in full flight. One of the most potent memories of my musical life sitting in the middle of that and watching the full power of an orchestra.

Very cool! I know that version quite well - I worked on the live on NBC production back in 2018, which had the same orchestrations (or nearly the same). You must have worked with my partner Stuart Andrews? That production was one of the highlights of my career, a total blast. Lots of sand... but a great time. (They brought in something like 4 tons of sand, it got everywhere.) 

 

[Dave Weiser]

1 hour ago, Bobadohshe said:

I'm surprised I haven't seen or chimed in on this thread until now.

 

A huge part of my life is playing horns parts on keys, sometimes with real horn players, sometimes without.

 

If you match the FEEL, and the actual NOTES the horns are playing, and it is the type of song with a punchy big horn sound, then a real horn section augmented by keys can sound great.

 

Some of you have probably seen this before; here is a video of my band playing September with me supplementing the horn section. It just makes it sound bigger.

 

 

 

NICE! That's how it should be done. You guys all sound great.

[nursers]

2 hours ago, Dave Weiser said:

Very cool! I know that version quite well - I worked on the live on NBC production back in 2018, which had the same orchestrations (or nearly the same). You must have worked with my partner Stuart Andrews? That production was one of the highlights of my career, a total blast. Lots of sand... but a great time. (They brought in something like 4 tons of sand, it got everywhere.) 

 

Dave, it's incredibly nice of you to think I was playing in one of the pro productions down here   It was a semi-pro / regional production - the orchestra were very very good though!

 

 

[Chris Link]

 

 

Here's an example of SD doing "My Old School" without a horn section.

 

Apologies if this has already been posted. I did not read the entire thread.

[J.F.N.]

 

I guess the key here (no pun intended) is context. I just started playing in a hobby band after being off the stage for 22 years, my ambition is to get back in the saddle to the point where my chops and self confidence are at the level where I can start participating in public jam sessions, something I did a lot back in the days, and one of the few things I REALLY love when it comes to music (to the point that this is the only thing "live" I can imagine doing these days, I just need to get up to scratch with my shit..). I was lucky to find this band, competence level is okay, and most of the members are pretty nice people too, and most importantly there is no ambition other than having a good time and eventually taking a pub gig or two, locally, for the H of it, but that's about it.

 

However, the band leader (bass player) seems to once upon a time have been very active and in many ways is handling things as if he expects us to be a commercial product, a band for hire, from what I have understood based on information from the singer who "found" me (they were looking for keys), but at the same time they are in agree they are not. I had the first rehearsal with them last week (lots of energy, everybody was super excited, good fun!), and already before the rehearsal the band leader had tried pushing me by sending me (clogging my phone) audio and video clips (music videos) of other artists "versions" of the song, playing it the way HE wanted it to be like, and the singer has told me this is how he often does.

 

Bad try, I'm not a kid, and I know what I want and don't want, so during the rehearsal he started talking about horn parts on some song, and I just took the word and explained that I am not there for this, if we want horns, let's get horns, as there is absolute zero economical interest, let's put up a note at some music school/conservatory and try to engage some young students who are looking for experience, the worst that can happen is that nobody calls! Then I explained that as a keys player, unless you are in a commercial act, a product - band for hire - playing horns, strings, and other BS parts, is not amazingly fun and that it's a completely different thing when you get 300 bucks in your hand after the gig, but in a hobby band for the H and fun of it, no way José! The rest of the band laughed and agreed, and the bass player kept kind of silent.

 

So, no horns on my shift, but I'm not in it for the money, neither is the band I play with, if I was into making money I probably would have handled this differently, but considering my goal with this band, returning to the "scene" again, I just want to play, improvise, get the nerve back, on the stuff I like to play, which is definitely not horns, strings or any other "fill in" for something that else would be necessary for making the act sound credible in a public context aiming at adding value for the customer.

 

(he's also imnsfho a quite shitty bass player... haha)

[MathOfInsects]

1 hour ago, Chris Link said:

 

 

Here's an example of SD doing "My Old School" without a horn section.

 

Apologies if this has already been posted. I did not read the entire thread.

If that band ever met 2020s Steely Dan it would punch them right in the face and then eat pizza off the unconscious body. 

[SamuelBLupowitz]

On 5/18/2024 at 4:35 PM, Dave Weiser said:

Very cool! I know that version quite well - I worked on the live on NBC production back in 2018, which had the same orchestrations (or nearly the same). You must have worked with my partner Stuart Andrews? That production was one of the highlights of my career, a total blast. Lots of sand... but a great time. (They brought in something like 4 tons of sand, it got everywhere.) 

 

Getting OT but I had forgotten that you worked on this production, Dave -- it's one of my favorite productions of JCS that I've seen (I have a real soft spot for that show, but also a specific set of stylistic opinions about how it should be performed that makes me kind of a pain in the ass about it).

[Al Quinn]

20 hours ago, Chris Link said:

 

 

Here's an example of SD doing "My Old School" without a horn section.

 

Apologies if this has already been posted. I did not read the entire thread.

Wow, I don’t remember seeing this clip before. Skunk Baxter and Denny Dias on the same stage = guitar heaven! As much as I love the horns on the original I didn’t miss them in this performance. 

[JovanyPetty]

On 5/17/2024 at 2:11 PM, JovanyPetty said:

I've been in similar situations before, where the band wanted to tackle songs that stretched my abilities. It can be tough to find the balance between pushing yourself and feeling overwhelmed.

As for handling horn parts on keys, it's definitely a challenge to replicate that authentic sound. I remember struggling with it until I stumbled upon bosshorn.com. They've got some killer resources that might help you nail those parts or find alternative solutions.

[Baldwin Funster]

This has always been the horns of a dilemma. 

[J.F.N.]

 

Or as they say, there comes a time when you have to take the bull by the horn section!

 

[David Emm]

Different angle... I've always loved brass, but it was never going to be my instrumental home. I'd go to symphonies and watch the brass section through 'opera glasses,' drinking it in. I also saw James Brown and those guys waxed the classical players. I thought I'd heard 'perfect' until then.

 

Brass attacks have gotten better and better in synths and exact replicas now abound in sample libraries. I suffered from Reverse Posturing A-Hole Syndrome for years, shunning brass and guitar sounds as feeling like put-ons. I got the hell over that and realized that they were just added colors. I'd never try to fake anyone out by pretending I was soloing for real, but having 90% of the pizzazz available is irresistible. Bobadoshe sure lays that out properly! 

[MushMusic]

It really depends on what you have to play the horn parts on.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHJ2eNsV2e4

[ProfD]

14 hours ago, David Emm said:

....shunning brass and guitar sounds as feeling like put-ons. I got the hell over that and realized that they were just added colors.

Bingo.  Any sound when approached non-idiomatically opens other avenues in composition, performance and music production. 

 

Sample libraries exist enabling composers and musicians to mock up scores and/or cover tunes using some semblance of the real sound.

 

Otherwise, there's good reason for musicians to use sampled sounds in a creative manner similar to synthesis. 

 

The orchestra hit is an example of a sound that got a lot of mileage before it became maligned.😁

 

Nowadays, similar to brass pads, prepared piano type sounds has become a thing in Pop music composition and production. 😎

[J.F.N.]

10 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Bingo.  Any sound when approached non-idiomatically opens other avenues in composition, performance and music production. 

 

Sample libraries exist enabling composers and musicians to mock up scores and/or cover tunes using some semblance of the real sound.

 

Otherwise, there's good reason for musicians to use sampled sounds in a creative manner similar to synthesis. 

 

The orchestra hit is an example of a sound that got a lot of mileage before it became maligned.😁

 

Nowadays, similar to brass pads, prepared piano type sounds has become a thing in Pop music composition and production. 😎

 

Like when Synth Brass became it's own "instrument", makes me think about this tune. Back in the days I used a preset sound on D50 for this brass riff, though the song was released in 1985 and D50 released in 1987, so that was not what was used here originally, I also used a D50 electric piano/organish preset sound for the bridge.. haha!