Seeking Advice: How to Improve Keyboard Chops

[Anderton]

I've been playing keyboards for over 50 years, and I play well enough to be able to realize compositions using keyboards.

 

However, I'd like to branch out from being a composer to more of a player, which requires improving my real-time keyboard chops.

 

* Are there method books?

* Exercises you can do?

* Specific scale studies?

* Or is the deal just to practice for a bunch of hours every day, and cross your fingers?

 

I remember how finding the Mickey Baker Jazz Guitar method for guitar improved my guitar playing dramatically, and quickly. I'd like the same kind of "aha" moment that could boost my keyboard chops.

 

Any advice would be appreciated. I don't need to become a keyboard virtuoso, we already have Jordan Rudess and Jerry Kovarsky   I just want to be able to play faster/better, in the most effiicient possible way. 

[timwat]

I'll take a stab, Craig.

 

First answer: Bach, like the Well-Tempered Clavier. Start w the Pomodoro technique: 25 minutes straight, 5 minutes break.

 

Second answer: An intermediate classical piano collection (of which there are many) - Mozart's Ronda Ala Turk, Beethoven's Fur Elise, CPE Bach's Solfigetto - that kind of stuff.

 

Third answer: Find a good teacher, who works with adult students and is not a one-trick pony (only one genre). Explain what you want to do, and where you think you're weak. A good teacher can then analyze and interpret where they think you need to work, and design regimen to address your weak areas.

 

Fourth answer: Bach.

 

Maybe answers 3 and 4 are the best. And then maybe answer 1.

 

Hope that helps. I'm sure others here will chime in with more intelligent and informed responses soon.

 

Tim

[mate stubb]

+1 to Bach. If you can play Bach somewhat fluidly, you are exercising hand independence, precision in control of note length, practice in modulating to different keys, and getting exposure to the finest voice leading examples in history. Dynamics not so much (it was the Baroque after all).

 

For working your expressive side, something Romantic like Debussy. From this you can develop a more delicate touch on piano and a freer less rigid sense of time.

[Anderton]

Thanks to both of you! As a huge Bach fan, that resonates. Still, I can't help but think I also need to deal with the manual dexterity part. Guitarists are told to practice scales in multiple positions, because unlike keyboard, the same note can play in different neck positions - this influences what accompanying notes you'll play. How will I know I'm using the right finger patterns to play Bach? And I'm not killer at reading music to translate it to keyboards. My time spent as a studio musician back in New York (sometime in the late 19th century, IIRC ) was mostly about translating lead sheets to guitar.

 

Guitar voicings map to keyboards in a different way. Perhaps there are method books for keyboard that show the best fingering positions to move around different scale notes - that might be what I need. I would think speed with keyboards would depend on fluid fingerings.

 

The teacher option is out, unfortunately. My life is too scheduled to travel someplace, take a lesson, and come back. That's too much time out of the day... 

[MathOfInsects]

I teach almost exclusively adult students now, almost all of whom are musicians already, and almost all of whom I teach online--no driving. Just saying...

Anyway, the "should" is where most progress stops. It's hard to identify any one single "should," without knowing where you want to get to--what the end result is. Where will this hoped-for dexterity be channelled? With adults, we're not really looking to bank a bunch of "trust me" exercises ("Just does these scales and trust me one day they will come in handy.") We are trying to add incremental value both to your music and ideally to your life. So I start from the end point and work backward to figure out how best to get you there.

I also keep a watchful eye on where people's "shoulds" might be entirely self-generated, and really an artifact of some internal narrator whose entire job is to convince you you are falling short. Getting past that narrator is almost as hard as getting new notes under the fingers, and often more important.

Bach is excellent, as is almost all reading of unfamiliar material. The unfamiliar part is the key, because while physical dexterity is important, the much larger component is opening up of new synaptic pathways. Some of what people perceive as limitations in speed and dexterity, is actually just attempting unfamiliar material, for which we have not carved out signal paths yet. It doesn't mean those paths are so contrived; it just means we haven't made those particular connections yet. The simplest move will feel nearly impossible, until the second it seems utterly simple.

The best options are to make sure you are attempting new material of almost any kind each day (changing the genres, levels, and other elements to keep expanding your skillset), and, of course, to find a good patient teacher who will help you navigate the (often self-imposed) road blocks on the way there.

One other item worth mentioning: the learning curve looks different with guitar vs. piano. On guitar, with a couple of pattens, you can sound pretty good pretty fast. That's because patterns stay the same key to key, you just need to change which fret you start on. But then there can be a long sort of "plateau" from there to the next peak, while you learn the names/concepts behind what you'd doing.

On piano, it tends to be the opposite: you need to learn some names and concepts first, because no single pattern is exportable across all keys (or any but the one it applies to). Then there can be an exponential upward curve as the means of scale- and chord-building click into place.

Good luck, and sincerely, reach out if you might be interested in online lessons to jump start the process.

[niacin]

Bach, 2 part inventions, my very old Allens Australia Imperial Edition has fingering notated not for every note but where it's not obvious which finger to use at first glance, often just at the begining of a phrase or where your fingers cross over to facilitate something further down the line.  Honestly if you're concerned about manual dexterity and developing good fingering there isn't afaik anything better.  If you can maintain the enthusiasm Hanon is actually designed to teach those things, but with Bach you get to learn those things in the process of exploring supremely crafted music.

[cphollis]

I come at this a bit differently than others.  For me, it was rewiring my brain so I wanted to play more, and gain dexterity in the process.  I also wanted that brain-ear-fingers connection, without reading notated music.  Play what I hear in my head, not on the page.

 

I would find recordings of pieces I wanted to be able to play, and hack at them while listening on headphones.  The more I did it, the better I got at it.  Because I had continual positive reinforcement along the way (playing stuff I wanted to play), it was fun to do.  After a bit, the brain becomes rewired around the positive reinforcement, and it's not really an effort to continually improve after that.

 

Also, if you are serious about performing, perhaps join a band sooner than later.  Having to prepare material on a deadline can really focus your attention.

 

EDIT: nothing like playing on a firm acoustic piano action to build hand strength.  It's like going to the gym.

[Tusker]

You’ve received excellent answers here Craig and to add to the chorus, knowing what you want to do can dramatically increase your learning curve. Watch videos of those techniques and your mirror neurons will start preparing your physical dexterity. The general purpose (i.e Bach and Hanon) is helpful too,  like having a regular exercise habit. It will be hard to build stellar technique without general skills. But if you wish to build a particular skill (say a triathlon or tough mudder) you have to work on that particular technique and develop a “feeling” of it. Listening will make you a better player through simple human empathy. Sure you will have skill gaps if you over-focus but everyone does. You’ve likely met classical pianists who can’t play a blues lick, because they haven’t heard it and felt it. Their mirror neurons have not been adequately exposed to the blues. So immerse yourself in whatever you want to play and don’t be ashamed of picking up a flashy technique here and there. For example if someone wishes to play like Art Tatum, I would point them to Dick Hyman’s excellent dissection of those unique techniques  … 

 

in a similar way, if you wish to play like Elton John, be sure to listen, observe and as needed, get that unique instruction.

[ElmerJFudd]

Learning and trying most anything  other than the stuff we’ve already established as motor memory will improve control.  New and different songs in different styles always helps - Bach is a great one because it asks a lot!  But if you want to be systematic - like going to the weight room Hannon, Czerny and others have written exercises and etudes. 
 

https://www.pianistmagazine.com/blogs/what-are-hanon-exercises-and-how-can-they-help-me-improve/

 

https://practisingthepiano.com/czernys-exercises-and-etudes/

 

A little each day goes a long way. Work on both hands. Separate and together.  Then move on and make music - preferably something out of your comfort zone. And slowly but surely your hands will do more of what you all of them more easily.  At our age, don’t forget to warm up and cool down.  Stay away for longer if experiencing pain. 

 

 

[Al Quinn]

I think it’s important to have your playing accessed by a good teacher. If you’ve developed bad habits it will be difficult to play with dexterity and speed. These are just general comments since I have no idea how you play. Since you’re short on time I’d suggest a few lessons online. A good teacher can quickly access your technique, show you proper technique, and tell you know where and how to focus. In less than 10 lessons you could learn so much with the right teacher. This will likely lead to playing Bach as many have already suggested.

 

[JamPro]

I spent 30 years playing the piano looking for the shortcut to better chops.  And I have found that shortcut: work on playing classical piano pieces.

 

Benefits: your music reading and sight-reading skills will improve; your sense of where your hands and fingers are on the keyboard will improve; you will be forced to play both piano and fortissimo and your ability to play with dynamics will improve; your keyboard vocabulary will grow vastly; you will get lots of opportunity to practice octaves and trills; you will get lots of opportunity to practice staccato and legato playing; your left hand will get a workout and get much better; you will expose yourself to entire worlds of piano music that you otherwise wouldn't know about; and too many more benefits to mention.

My abilities to play blues, jazz, rock, and all popular music has grown tremendously from my playing of classical piano.  I recommend working on classical piano to all serious students of popular piano playing.

[Farfisakid]

Here are a couple of links to the 2015 RCM piano syllabus (a new one is coming out later this year) and Popular Selection list that has pieces and exercises graded by levels that you may find helpful. Start at level 1 (even if you find it easy) and work your way up. Good luck with it ...

 

https://files.rcmusic.com//sites/default/files/files/RCM-Piano-Syllabus-2015.pdf

 

https://files.rcmusic.com//sites/default/files/files/S45_PopSelList_2017_RCM-Online_F.pdf

 

 

[16251]

I think ppl who start on classical piano at an early age have a leg up on so many aspects of jazz pialno (my focus.) It wasn't until like age 16/17 that I changed from organ to piano and began my meager ascent, adding classical piano, so I could attend music school. IMHO, the formative years with regard to memorizing, using correct fingering, etc. increases your abilities, which I lack.

 

My biggest takeaway, which I was told and asked to practice, is to work on scales and arpeggios. All my teachers privately and in college suggested I practice scales with both hands; one octave quarter notes, two octaves eighth notes, etc  What I discovered about a year ago was that kind of practice wasn't helping me (not withstanding the fact that I found it boring and I wasn't putting the time in everyday.

 

OK, here's my best exercise that has helped and is helping me everyday.  >>Practice a lot with only one hand at a time. IMHO, what that does is make you more aware of your deficiencies.  I think this, after a while, will help with everything else. None of my teachers ever stressed this but I think it is the perfect exercises for the person who didn't start classical at early age.

[Outkaster]

People like to slam classical training.  The truth is that the piano was developed because of these composers.

[octa]

Real good advice above, reminds me to play more Bach. One of my fave teachers would say to "learn one piece really well". Pick a tough sounding one, as often when these passages are slowed down and dissected they're much easier than they sound at full speed w/ sustain etc. Maybe use a Horowitz or similar performance as a guide to how this piece is performed. Playing everyday is definitely beneficial. Skipping one occasionally when feeling burnt is ok too, re-energizes the next day. Listening is as important as practicing. 

 

For some years I've thought about getting a mirror, as every practice room seems to have one. I guess seeing your hands from another perspective must help, as does recording practice and listening to playback. 

[Anderton]

Well, I knew I came to the right place

 

There are a lot of suggestions that are immediately useful. I started on guitar with classical lessons, and it sure helped. But at this point with keys, the problem isn't so much that my fingerings are "wrong," it's the speed with which I can access what I want to play. The suggestions about rewiring the brain, playing in different genres as much as possible, practicing with the hands individually, etc. are great. The RC links are also pure gold, very helpful.

 

This is all part of an evolutionary process. I'm fine on guitar and blues harp, so a few years ago I started working on my weakest links. I spent a few years on improving my voice, then a few years on drum parts, and now it's keyboard's turn.

 

Thanks everyone, I've got my work cut out for me!

[ProfD]

17 minutes ago, Anderton said:

But at this point with keys, the problem isn't so much that my fingerings are "wrong," it's the speed with which I can access what I want to play.

Listen to examples of the music you want to play on keys.  Transcribe it using your ears and/or sheet music. It's akin to having the *right* teacher.  Even better if you can shed with a KB player who's already fluent in where you want to go with it.😎

[pinkfloydcramer]

I know Craig has plenty of great advice to act on, and at this very moment he is no doubt slaving away in a practice room (a picture that is not complete without a stern, elderly piano teacher standing over him, hair in a bun, ruler in hand.) 

 

The best advice I ever received was from a pipe organist at my college who was enlisted to teach intermediate classical piano. In his words, "you have to be able to play it slow before you can play it fast". He advised me to break up passages into sequences of a few notes at a time, play them repeatedly VERY slowly, gradually increasing the speed until up to tempo (using a metronome as you get faster). That is too boring and time-consuming for most to deal with, but I found it helped me play much more smoothly and confidently (and "smooth" creates the illusion of "fast"). I thought of it as "making friends" with the notes, silly as that sounds. For me, anticipating an upcoming passage with anxiety means I will stiffen and invariably screw it up- or at least lose the feel.

 

Repetition is a necessity, but it's a negative if it's repetition that reinforces bad habits. Hence the need for a teacher, or at least short consultations with a good player who knows technique.

 

I am going through the reverse of this- working on guitar technique. Had a rehearsal (on keys) last night with a great guitar player and benefited tremendously from picking his brain for a few minutes. He assured me that guitar teachers do not smack your hand with a ruler.  

[MathOfInsects]

No question. I say it all the time: The fastest way to play fast is to play slow. One of the main reasons for this is (once again) the synapse thing: If you learn a fast passage fast, you don't really know that passage, you just know how to play it. So as soon as your brain looks over and asks what you're doing, you can no longer pull it off at speed. It takes much longer then to unlearn the muscle-memory and layer in the brain part.

But if you start slow, you start by knowing the passage. The playing of it--the "easy" part of pressing the keys down quickly--then comes far sooner.

[BluMunk]

Just to throw in another thought on the tails of all the excellent suggestions here: one of the physical skills that folks end up internalizing as a result of scale practicing (and other practicing) is: in melodic lines, when do I shift hand positions/move to my thumb so I don't run out of fingers. Like, I expect it's similar to guitar- when do I play the note on the next string vs. staying on the same string? When do I re-center around a new position on the neck?

Very generally (and I expect folks to tell me this is a ridiculous way to think about things), most of the decision-making in playing is all about whether context calls for switching hand positions after the middle finger or after the ring finger, (or less frequently the pointer or the pinky). These transition moments are always the places I find adult students needing to stop and think/use effort (and can sometimes represent questions and issues for more advanced playing as well).

I would recommend looking at/trying some scales with fingerings written on them. Not because you have to be totally fluent in scales, but because it forces you to learn/play melodic lines longer than 5 notes, and therefore gets you used to typical position switches.

[Rustar]

To build overall strength I recommend Hanon Book III. Like it says on the last page, this book should be played at least once each day to build chops for the most demanding classical works. I began this about 7-8 years ago and it produced chops I'd never dreamed I'd have. Combine this diligently with some other recommendations and you'll have plenty of growth in your chops. 

[GovernorSilver]

7 hours ago, Anderton said:

. But at this point with keys, the problem isn't so much that my fingerings are "wrong," it's the speed with which I can access what I want to play.

 

Welcome to the boat that I also recently got on.  

 

If I read your post right, you already know the thing you want to play - a melody line, a riff mixing melody and chords, or whatever - and you want that thing to come out through your hands faster.  I have indeed found that learning things by ear, which some people refer to as "transcribing", works well for this.  I have been using a Vidami pedal to help me transcribe off of Youtube videos.  It lets me loop a specific section of the video, then slow it down, all using footswitches so I don't have to remove my hands from the instrument.  The Vidami also has footswitches to rewind and fast-forward 10 seconds per stomp.  Transcribing hands-free has been a huge game-changer for me.  I used to waste time dragging the little red circle back and forth on Youtube - no more of that with the Vidami.

 

Another useful resource I have been working with is a page put up by Open Studio Jazz, which has 3 classic solos that have been given the Soundslice treatment.  I don't use Soundslice hands-free, but the waveform display makes it easy to zero in on the exact phrase I wish to transcribe, loop it, slow it down, then play along with the slowed down loop.  

 

This process, including playing along with the phrase being transcribed, has improved both the "ear to fingers" latency and the cleanliness of fingering execution for me.

 

 I took a music fundamentals course in university, in which we were drilled every day with ear training practices that included singing intervals up and down, singing scale/chord degrees, etc.  So I'm pretty comfortable transcribing without having to carve out additional time to drill the recognition of  intervals and chord degrees.   I don't lose much time trying to figure out if the phrase has, for example, a minor 3rd or major 3rd.  Some people however might need this extra training - there are a plethora of apps out there for drilling those things.  The most recent one I tried is Solo - while designed for guitarist, I found it works well with acoustic viola too.  I'll probably try it with melodica at some point.

[timwat]

The older I get, the more thankful I am for my mom pushing me through 9 years of classical lessons kicking and screaming and lazy and not practicing. If only I had known I would have applied myself more, but I suppose that's the same story for many kids. I run into so many fellow players who struggle and "short cut" things that anyone who was forced to play the Pathetique at a recital takes for (begrudged) granted. 

 

Fast forward and I had the opportunity to be part of a music major's jazz education I had no earthly right being a part of at Cal State, under the tutelage of a stellar pianist and instructor. And then I invested in private lessons for years with a real cat that were expensive, inconvenient...but priceless.

 

At the end of the day, I guess I'd recommend a great teacher as #1 and #2 on my list. And Bach is still at least tied for #2.

 

 

[Jazzmammal]

Craig, you haven't specified if you're interested in learning to play a real piano or keyboards.  All the comments about chops are correct if you want to play a piano or learn on a good hammer action 88 key keyboard.  If you're ore concerned with playing keyboards in a band by using synth action 61 or 76 key keyboards then you're not too concerned with hand and finger strength so let us know what kind of keyboard you have or are willing to buy to learn on.

 

Next is the time factor.  As an older adult with tons of stuff going on I would pick a song with keyboard parts in it that you would actually play on a gig and learn it.  Just don't start with some burner by Chick Corea!   Pick a ballad with some nice sting pads and maybe a few lines that's not too technical and build up from there.  If you find time to practice classical Bach and such, great but if not focus on what you would actually do on a gig and learn them using the good old hunt and peck method.  The fingering for relatively easy stuff is pretty obvious, just play what works with your fingers.   One thing that is an absolute must is playing the basic major scales in all keys with both hands using the "tempo de learno" method as described.  And do it to a metronome or drum track.  That will do wonders by itself with building dexterity and fingering.  You're already a good player with good ears on guitar, hearing the keyboard parts should be fairly easy for you and you already have a musicians mindset, I think you're capable of figuring a lot of this out without a ton of help.  But if you really want to play keys at the same level you play guitar then yes, that will require quite a bit of time and practice and playing high level synth and organ parts starts with playing a real piano or a high quality hammer action DP if you don't have an AP in your living room.  Short of that you can still learn to play "good enough" on a 61 key synth.

 

Are these comments classically correct?  No, of course not.  If you have the time and motivation to go that route then do it but if you really don't then what I'm suggesting will work.

 

Bob

[synthizen2]

Sometimes you'll hear a passage played on piano on a record, where you're saying to yourself, "how is that done?". After 4 years of jazz lessons with Kenny Barron and almost 40 years of gigging jazz, rock, blues, and country... I still run into this from time to time.

 

Best example was when I was doing a prog covers project some 5 or 6 years ago. One of the tunes was "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway". The opening piano part had me stumped... then I did a YouTube search and found a nice 15-year-old gentleman already had it figured out (the overhand/underhand method), and he very carefully showed how it is done, visually.

 

Nice! A 60-year-old OLD FART learns something from a 15-year-old upstart. It happens every day!

 

I was never a Hannon or Czerny guy... During accordion lessons as an 8-year-old, those books used to give me nightmares. I just couldn't face them again when learning jazz piano in my 20s. But that's my issue.

 

[MikeT156]

On 4/7/2022 at 5:12 PM, Rustar said:

To build overall strength I recommend Hanon Book III. Like it says on the last page, this book should be played at least once each day to build chops for the most demanding classical works. I began this about 7-8 years ago and it produced chops I'd never dreamed I'd have. Combine this diligently with some other recommendations and you'll have plenty of growth in your chops. 

Agree 100 percent! The Hanan Studies was one of the first books my piano teacher told me to buy and practice FIRST when I sat down at the piano. Practice slowly lift your fingers and stretch, and increase speed as you gain strength. However do not try to fly through the exercises or you defeat the purpose of Hanan. Practice 20 minutes each day, minimum.

 

Mike T.

[Montunoman 2]

Bach and Hannon and all that stuff is great, but I'd focus on the music you want to learn, along with major, minor scales (blues and other "jazz" scales if your into that) and all the chords. That alone should keep your quite busy. 

 

Also yes to practicing slow,  hands separate and reading, but to try to use the music that you want to become good at.  

 

Maybe if you state your musical interests, you'll get some recommendations for the best resources. 

[PianoMan51]

The OP asked about ‘chops’, which I translate as ‘technique’.  I think that this is specific, and doable. But it takes complete focus. It’s not about the music, it’s about the physical and mental techniques keyboard players use to accomplish their musical desires.
 

1. Decide to improve your keyboard technique. Only that. Focus.

2. Hire a classical keyboard teacher who can guide your improvement on just technique. This is stuff that’s hard to learn by reading or listening.

3. Plan on 45 minutes per day, six days a week, for six months.

4. Understand that‘technique’ is not one thing but a bag of methods to accomplish a bag of musical deliverables.

 

To start the list of techniques to be learned and practiced, here’s a list from my jazz teacher 50 years ago.

 

1. Scales, major, the minors, diminished, chromatic, pentatonic, major and minor blues, etc. In all keys.

2. All the scales legato, staccato, marcato.

3. All the scales two handed in octaves, tenths.

4. All the scales with emphasis on 2, 3, 4, 5 beat rhythms.

5. Arpeggios. Major, minor, diminished, augmented, then every other 3 or 4 note chord you can think of. Major 6th, Dominant 7th sus4, etc.  In all keys.

6. Octaves. Like the scales above. In all keys.

7. Thirds. Minor and major chromatically. Then played in keys. 

6. Sixths, played in keys.

7. Boogie Woogie / blues left hand patterns. In all keys.

8. Stride left hand . In all keys.

9. 10th patterns in left hand. (Walking tenths). This may be tough for some keys.

8. Tremolo octaves in both hands. 
 

This may seem daunting, but each of these can be done by someone who puts their mind to it and learns the tricks from someone who knows how to teach them. Six months of focus can be transformative. 

[jarrell]

On 4/7/2022 at 8:27 AM, Anderton said:

But at this point with keys, the problem isn't so much that my fingerings are "wrong," it's the speed with which I can access what I want to play.

 

"Practice does not make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect."

- Vince Lombardi (I think)

 

If you think about what practice involves, one aspect is learning through repetition - if you repeat something enough, you start to learn it. However, on closer inspection, if you practice a piece (or a passage, or a lick or whatever) that you can't play right now, that is, your execution is sloppy, then what you are learning is how to play it sloppily. This is where slow practice comes in. Practice it at a slow enough tempo where you can play it in perfect rhythm, or, if you are practicing soloing, at a slow enough tempo where you can easily come up with good ideas over those chord changes. When you feel you have it down, increase the tempo. Of course, every practice session, you need to play a little bit at the goal tempo, just to keep in mind the goal - for example you could spend maybe half the time on the slowest clean execution tempo, then the rest at gradually faster tempos until reaching the goal tempo.

 

This doesn't need to be all of your practice session, but it is something to be aware of - don't reinforce how to play sloppy, or how to only play scales and canned licks because the tempo is too fast for you. Instead, find the tempo where you can play "correctly" regarding both technique and ideas, and the long term goal (as this is a long term practice method) is to gradually increase the tempo.

 

It's also a good idea to record your playing and listen back to it, as listening is different when playing than not. I found, just like slow practice, slow listening helps - listen to your playing at 50%  of where you played it, to hear more clearly how accurate you really are. Of course great pianists throughout history didn't have access to this particular tool, but why not take advantage of it?

[Theo Verelst]

If you feel more at home with guitar playing, it's wise to learn some licks (blues, funk, pop solo, what you prefer) and play these on you best feeling keyboard until the feeding is natural. Different licks for various instrument types, and then some chords you feel good with.

 

Preferably at a musical sounding hardware instrument, to not learn software timing issues as part of you keyboard style.

 

T