AnotherScott Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 Picking up from my post in the Korg L1 thread... that's a board that was on my radar for this purpose. But without derailing that thread, I thought it might be nice to talk about the options here. For these purposes, setup/breakdown time may have to be super-quick. Like, you play the wedding recessional, and you want to be set up to play cocktail elsewhere in the venue within as soon as you can. So the fewer pieces you have to move, the lighter they are, the less cabling required, the better. Probably my best gear for this has been the Roland FP-2. Decent action, with surprisingly loud speakers. Piano sound isn't great, but it's good enough. It's about 32 lbs, though, which started feeling increasingly heavy to me over time. (As an aside... the FP2 also has a rare hammer action that plays surprisingly decently for organ, within reason.) I briefly tried the Kurzweil KA-90 to shave off 5 lbs. But it was still pretty awkward to move... lighter, but substantially deeper. And its action wasn't as good, and it's piano sound wasn't as good, and its other sounds were unusable. Nicely, you can easily use it with an iPad to fix the sounds, and the iPad sounds play loudly through the KA90 speakers, and the iPad even sits nicely on the board in the groove for the music stand, but that does add to the setup time/nuisance. Maybe it's just psychological, considering how little time that would actually add (especially since the iPad should't even need power), but I want to be able to toss the board up on a stand, hit the power switch, and start to play, done. Next, I went to a Korg PA1000, which is really a great board that I figured was worth trying because it was a board I'd actually have other uses for (as opposed to the ones above which I'd be unlikely to use for any other reason; and this multi-use scenario is what would justify buying this much pricier option compared to the others). The huge trade-off is that was that it has only 61 keys, and also while they are better than the really low-end Korg 61's (Kross, Krome, King Korg), at least crossing the threshold of being piano-playable, they cross that threshold just barely. It is hardly a satisfying experience. And the boot time probably tops a minute. And the piano sound is still not very good (though there are some downloadable ones that people say are better, that I never tried). And at about 24 lbs, it's still not super-light. I mean, if it were half that weight, I'd be more inclined to put up with all those shortcomings, since it's still something I can make work if I need to. But at 24 lbs it doesn't save enough effort compared to other options to not want to prefer something with more keys and some combination of better sound, better feel, faster boot. Too many trade-offs for the task at hand, for not enough weight savings. So then I decided, maybe I should just stick with a separate speaker, which would be the only way to get the keyboard weight way down. The Numa Compact 2/2X looked like a good option, but ultimately, I just did not find it very satisfying. I couldn't put my finger on why. The action, while not great (as non-hammer actions go for playing piano), was not terrible. The piano sound, while not great, was not terrible. But I think maybe the insufficient connection between the two for piano in particular ("FTEC") was the final nail. Sure, I could get by, but I figured there must be a keyboard+amp in the same weight range that would be more enjoyable to play. I did end up with two sub-20-lb boards that worked for me, with good enough piano sound, good enough action, good enough connection between the two... the Vox Continental 73 and the Kurzweil PC4-7. Okay, we're back looking at much pricier boards, but again, these are boards I could also have other uses for. (I'm guessing SP6-7 would work too.) Since the PC4-7 currently figures into my main rig, there are situations where it might work, but others where it would not. More often than not, when doing ceremony/cocktail, I bring a separate board for that, leaving a 2-board rig already set up and instantly ready to go for the reception. So that leaves the Vox Continental for ceremony/cocktail in this particular scenario. That brings us to speakers. Those heavier boards with sufficiently loud built-in speakers have some advantages besides fast setup and all-in-one transport. They're stereo, and they tend to sound surprisingly good considering their mimimal size and power, probably because the companies have specifically EQ'd the amp to make the board sound good through those otherwise unimpressive speakers. And they benefit from not sitting on the floor as your external amp likely will be. And I don't know, psychologically, they may also be benfitting from my lower expectations! But it's kind of irritating to bring some external speaker and end up with something with what seems like less quality than those other boards' internal speakers. Okay, sure, I can use an EV ZXa1, but it's 19 lbs. An at-home experiement provided nice results from the iLoud Micro Monitors... stereo and under 4 lbs for the pair and small enough to sit right on top of the Vox at about the same positions built-in speakers would be. But these are not in gig-friendly enclosures, and are a bit of a nuisance to wire up, and you'd need to use velcro or something to assure that would sit there stable throughout the performance. I did try a Vox VX50KB which is a cool little amp, but it was not satisfying for piano (at least using only a single one, on the floor). I'm wondering about the Korg Konnect. And now I'm also thinking about an about-face, considering a Dexibell P3 with built-in speakers. Now I'm getting back up there at 28 lbs. But especially with the newer piano and EP sounds you can load into it, it has the potential to be the lighest good-sounding board with sufficiently loud speakers. And while it uses a TP100 action, for whatever reason, implementations vary somewhat, and while it's still not among my favorite actions, I've found the TP100 on a Dexibell to be far nicer to play than it was on a Kurzweil. So there's my never-ending journey, so far. Thoughts? Your own preferred solutions for this scenario? Anything that's worked especially well (or unexpectedly not)? Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 All I can speak to is anecdotal experience - for the specific kinds of situations you're talking about, I have been very satisfied with my Casio PX S3000. I use it for all my piano-only gigs, as I can make the action speak like a piano player (unlike my Kronos), the built in speakers are loud enough for my uses, it's under 30 pounds and I can the gig bag has backpack straps. In a pinch it can also run on batteries, but I never use it that way. Yes, I've read the reviews about the short action and other shortcomings - it's not perfect - but it sounds great, it also sounds great through a PA speaker or through FOH, and I can stop worrying about gear and focus on playing piano. For my duo with a singer gigs, I have also used my Kronos, because of the great rhythm integration. I equip one of my pedals to trigger the drum track, and can pull off pop and dance tunes with a minimal "remix" vibe (piano and drum loop, or rhodes and drum loop), which really suits smaller bar and lounge settings perfectly. But that's really not what you're talking about here, I think. Anyway, you bake with the flour you've got, right? Quote .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted September 19, 2021 Author Share Posted September 19, 2021 I've done cocktail hours with some Casio 88s over the years. I've really liked a lot of their boards, but the volume I've gotten out of the speakers has been borderline... might cut it, might not, so it was a risk for this use. I haven't tried the PX-S3000 and don't know if it's speakers are noticeably louder than earlier models. Yeah, baking with the flour you've got is sensible, but I'm a flour junkie. ;-) Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted September 19, 2021 Author Share Posted September 19, 2021 I suffered with Casio's PX-360 and then PX3000 for years on a very large number of solo gigs. Before that Roland's FP4, Kurzweil PC 2X, Yamaha P120, P90, P250, etc. Out of all those the FP4 was the most comfortable. FP4 was good too. I preferred the FP2's slightly lighter action, and slightly lighter carrying weight. Now I'm a Kawai ES110 guy. I find it to have the best action and response yet. I suspect I may not be as fussy about action/response as you are (heck, I've often been using non-hammer actions here)... but having sufficient volume out of the speakers has been a limiting issue. If cocktail hour is in a larger room with lots of people, some of them just disappear. Of if playing a duo with a sax player, the piano can't keep up with the level of the sax for a balanced accompaniment. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMan Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 Setting up for a big hotel ballroom gig a few years ago I was asked at the last minute to play the cocktail hour in an adjacent room. I grabbed my Nord Electro and my 10' powered wedge monitor - and with a band mate carrying my stand and pedals I was up and running in 5 minutes. The wedge was more than enough amplification. The guitar player strolled over with his amp about 10 minutes in. As he was a great jazz player, it turned out to be more fun than the actual gig. That Vox will be even lighter for you move around. And I just love the pianos and EP"s in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 I haven't done many cocktail/background gigs where there wasn't a piano provided. But my wider thoughts are: - A separate amp avoids compromising your choice of board - Try and reuse what you already have (as I mentioned in my latest post in the recent Nord thread). I would be very interested in your (anyone's) thoughts on the Korg Konnect. Would a Roland Cube or similar be worth also checking out? Cheers, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted September 19, 2021 Author Share Posted September 19, 2021 I would be very interested in your (anyone's) thoughts on the Korg Konnect. I had been considering it a while back for a dual use... the one described in this thread, and possibly also being able to use it as a stage monitor for the times nobody but me needs to hear my monitor. But then I discovered that the Konnect does not have a pass-thru audio out, so I couldn't feed my two keyboards into the Konnect and then pass the summed signal out to the mains. So then I couldn't really see a use except for this ceremony/cocktail purpose. $450--in addition to the price of the keyboard itself--seems a bit much for something that would only be used for that. But I liked the idea of the Konnekt functioning both as my monitor and as my mixer, and if it had line outs, I would have already given it a go. Though also 12 lbs starts to get up there (the Vox amp is 9 lbs). Would a Roland Cube or similar be worth also checking out? I did check the KC220. Not very impressed. 16 lbs is not as light as I'd like, and sound already wasn't as good as the 15 lb Behinger B208D (or as good as using only the top-half of the Roland SA-300 I already have which is about the same size, though 25 lbs). Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 I did check the KC220. Not very impressed. 16 lbs is not as light as I'd like, and sound already wasn't as good as the 15 lb Behinger B208D (or as good as using only the top-half of the Roland SA-300 I already have which is about the same size, though 25 lbs). There's that new Alto TX308, 350 watts (claimed) and 12.3 lbs. I would guess it can cover a cocktail hour or ceremony. Pretty reasonable at $129 too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawback Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 Would a Roland Cube or similar be worth also checking out? I did check the KC220. Not very impressed. 16 lbs is not as light as I'd like, and sound already wasn't as good as the 15 lb Behinger B208D (or as good as using only the top-half of the Roland SA-300 I already have which is about the same size, though 25 lbs). The Cube Street EX uses 2x8"s with 2x2 hi freq drivers in a wedge design, quite a bit different from the 220 which I agree wouldn"t impress me if it sounded like the top half of the SA-300 (which besides me, you are the only one on the planet to have owned). I"m curious about the Cube EX, though. Quote ____________________________________ Rod Here for the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 For when it really is better, lighter⦠which are gigs with fast room switches, and pain in the ass load ins. Like in the big city, parking not close enough, having to go through kitchen, etc. I"m happy with the Casio PX-560. A 360 would also be fine. A Kawai ES-110 would be my next pick. Speakers, that"s a tough call. There really isn"t anything light with built in speakers that is really adequate for most situations. The 560 on a rare occasion (like a boomy stone floor, high ceiling room) might just cut it. Low end is important when no bass player - so an 8', 10' or 12' PA speaker that can produce some lower frequencies. Until I find something I really like - I"m getting by with a mackie 12'. It would be nice if a nice full spectrum, light weight amp also did a great job with stereo image. I usually run mono, but would be happy to bring another patch cable if the amp made it worth while. I am not convinced the Korg stereo amp has enough volume and low end. I need to try it. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/konnect--korg-konnect-portable-stereo-pa-system-with-bluetooth The Bose column speaker looks interesting. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/L1Compact--bose-l1-compact-system This thing is 17lbs and has a rechargeable battery. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EONOneCom--jbl-eon-one-compact-portable-pa-speaker-with-rechargeable-battery That said, your cart choice and bungee cords is as important as light. For gigs where a more realistic piano feel, sound and look are important, I"ve picked the CP-88. Just got home from a 5.5 hour gig with trio where I was happy I brought the CP. It"s a little heavier to carry, but it"s very compact and the Yamaha bag for it has a great pockets-flap with compartments for pedals, cables, electric, tablet, etc. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted September 20, 2021 Author Share Posted September 20, 2021 There's that new Alto TX308, 350 watts (claimed) and 12.3 lbs. I would guess it can cover a cocktail hour or ceremony. Pretty reasonable at $129 too. Looks interesting. the 220 which I agree wouldn"t impress me if it sounded like the top half of the SA-300 The top half of the SA-300 sounded noticeably better. For when it really is better, lighter⦠which are gigs with fast room switches, and pain in the ass load ins. Like in the big city, parking not close enough, having to go through kitchen, etc. I"m happy with the Casio PX-560...Speakers, that"s a tough call. There really isn"t anything light with built in speakers that is really adequate for most situations. The 560 on a rare occasion (like a boomy stone floor, high ceiling room) might just cut it. I like the PX-560, but yeah, unfortunately, you can't count on the speakers having enough oomph for performing in public spaces. But there are models that are loud enough for the kind of thing I'm talking about (as mentioned... Roland FP2/FP4, Kurz KA90, etc.). This thing is 17lbs and has a rechargeable battery. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EONOneCom--jbl-eon-one-compact-portable-pa-speaker-with-rechargeable-battery I tried one and was not impressed. Not bad, but not good enough for its price or travel weight. The EV ZXa1 is cheaper, not far in weight, and sounds much better. I also found the physical operation of the JBL to be goofy. The only advantage of the JBL is the battery, which could be nice particularly if your keyboard can run from battery as well. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobadohshe Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 I have this exact scenario many times a year. I'll have to do Ceremony and/or cocktail and/or my Top 40 set with my band. I had to do this yesterday in fact. 5-6 cocktail hour 6-10 hit with the band 150 yards away. My solution is 2 keyboards. And in those very rare cases where I do have all 3 in different places with no break, I'll break down the CP4 from the closest of the 2 and march it over to the next spot to plop it on a waiting stand and otherwise fully set up rig. Having to break a ton of stuff down and transport it when you need to be in 2 places at once just isn't an option. Quote Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37 My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niacin Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 I have this exact scenario many times a year. I'll have to do Ceremony and/or cocktail and/or my Top 40 set with my band ... I'll break down the CP4 ... and march it over to the next spot to plop it on a waiting stand and otherwise fully set up rig. This. And at the first set break I go back and pack down the stand+leads+speaker that I left at the cocktail spot. My Vox-73, which is the bottom board in my regular 2-board rig, does the job admirably and has the bonus of being easy to move in a hurry - power off, leads out, and go. Most of the time I don't even bother putting it in a case. Quote Gig keys: Hammond SKpro, Korg Vox Continental, Crumar Mojo 61, Crumar Mojo Pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 There's that new Alto TX308, 350 watts (claimed) and 12.3 lbs. I would guess it can cover a cocktail hour or ceremony. Pretty reasonable at $129 too.Good suggestion. I remember the max SPL was much lower than the more expensive TS series - but surely still sufficient for this use case. And not too expensive either. Cheers, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewall08530 Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 I had a wedding gig last weekend and played the ceremony in a Carriage House and the cocktail hour/ dinner 60 yards away under a large event tent. Since 2019 my answer to this scenario is Casio PX S-3000 + Bose S1 Blue tooth speaker. It has to be small and intimate for the speakers in the Casio to be enough but the Bose S1 at 15.7 lbs is plenty for any wedding ceremony or cocktail hour I"m ever going to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 I'd be curious whether the 20 watt speakers in the Kawai ES520 and ES920 make a critical difference in these scenarios. Are they loud enough that you don't need support amplification in the situations talked about in this thread? When every minute counts, not having an extra piece to plug in and carry is a huge advantage. Obviously it would be nice to have a 10 or 12 inch speaker, but in these situations the test is not whether the sound you project is amazing but rather is it minimally good enough. Quote Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 Not sure why 73 keys are a necessity for this type of gig. solo/duo work is typically acoustic, softer music that should be able to be covered with a 61 key keyboard. M-Audio Code 61 has USB input, standard MIDI In/Out, sustain and expression pedal. Semi-weighted keybed which I'm getting more comfortable with every gig, kinda liking it actually. You can set your IPAD right on top of it; 11 pounds. Has 9 sliders, buttons, knobs and pads; four banks per preset. I use it to control my Gemini module. Although discontinued they are pretty easy to find. Here's one on Ebay now; open box but "new". link Quote 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Quinn Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 I haven"t done this type of gig in many years but I did a bunch of them last century. To me the most demanding audio is when the bride walks down the aisle and when the bride and groom walk out at the end of the ceremony. I would play pretty loud during both these parts of the ceremony just as the organist in a church would typically do. These are dramatic moments that, IMHO, should have dramatic musical support (i.e., volume with decent bottom end). I can"t imagine internal keyboard speakers providing the appropriate full of sound. For the cocktail hour too loud is a problem as people are reconnecting socially and the music shouldn"t get in the way. If I had to do this type of gig today I think I"d be satisfied using my Electro 4D or Hammond SK Pro 61 with a good powered speaker (i.e., nice full sound and easy to move even if stairs are involved). Back in the day I did these gigs with a DX-7 and GK Keyboard Amp. Quote https://alquinn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 Solo piano on 61 keys - I guess it depends on what your rep is and what the range needed is. It doesn"t work for me on 'classical' gigs, or jazz gigs where octave changing is part of the palette. Yeah, 61 keys is fine for piano, bass, drums and accompanying most pop stuff, you can +/- octave if you need to get lower or higher. I certainly have heard nice renditions of classic songs on instruments like a Kronos 61 or Yamaha Motif 61 over the years. But (for me) playing acoustic piano on a cheap action controller sucks the heart out piano playing. Halls not having a maintained acoustic any longer and having to go digital through a speaker is the reality. But, I"ll stick with portable weighted slabs. Heck, a few even run on battery now if your out on the grass. ymmv Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobadohshe Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 I have this exact scenario many times a year. I'll have to do Ceremony and/or cocktail and/or my Top 40 set with my band. I had to do this yesterday in fact. 5-6 cocktail hour 6-10 hit with the band 150 yards away. My solution is 2 keyboards. And in those very rare cases where I do have all 3 in different places with no break, I'll break down the CP4 from the closest of the 2 and march it over to the next spot to plop it on a waiting stand and otherwise fully set up rig. Having to break a ton of stuff down and transport it when you need to be in 2 places at once just isn't an option. And to further clarify, there's no way I'm playing any of these situation and not going through either 1 or 2 powered PA speakers. Internal keyboard speakers are just a comical consideration for this job IMO. If you're outside sound dies out, and the roar of any cocktail hour is easily enough to drown internal speakers out. Quote Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37 My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16251 Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 I'd be curious whether the 20 watt speakers in the Kawai ES520 and ES920 make a critical difference in these scenarios. Are they loud enough that you don't need support amplification in the situations talked about in this thread? When every minute counts, not having an extra piece to plug in and carry is a huge advantage. Obviously it would be nice to have a 10 or 12 inch speaker, but in these situations the test is not whether the sound you project is amazing but rather is it minimally good enough. If the Roland FP4, which I owned for many years, is considered to have enough volume for small cocktails/ceremonies, then the Kawai ES520, which I now own is even better IMHO. (I won't bore y'all but I digging the ES520 if you haven't guessed.) Quote AvantGrand N2 | ES520 | Gallien-Krueger MK & MP | https://soundcloud.com/pete36251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted September 20, 2021 Author Share Posted September 20, 2021 I have this exact scenario many times a year. I'll have to do Ceremony and/or cocktail and/or my Top 40 set with my band...My solution is 2 keyboards. Yes, my basic scenario here is the same, but 3 keyboards, since the reception itself will have a 2-keyboard setup. And in those very rare cases where I do have all 3 in different places with no break, I'll break down the CP4 from the closest of the 2 and march it over to the next spot to plop it on a waiting stand and otherwise fully set up rig. For me, I'd want the second-location board to be the same as the first-location board, because the third location has a stacked pair I'd rather not disturb. (And besides, you have to walk from location 1 to location 2 anyway, so you might as well bring stuff with you, even if location 2 is closer to location 3.) But the idea of having an additional stand set up and waiting at the second location could be a worthwhile time saver if the gear you're moving from the first location to the second can't be moved with a single trip. (Though of course it takes more initial setup time, to go to that second location even before you start playing at the first, in order to set up the extra stand, which itself is also one more thing to bring in the first place.) That adds one more parameter to the quest for the ideal setup for the task at hand... The combination of the stand, keyboard, and (if not built into the keyboard) amp/speaker should not only be light enough, but also otherwise "shaped" so that you can move it all in one trip. So that's one more advantage of a keyboard with built-in speakers... you can move the keyboard with one arm, the stand in the other, and at worst, a shoulder bag to hold the power cord, sustain pedal, and anything else (like maybe an iPad if needed for charts or whatever). So if going with an external amp, to avoid another trip, I'd want something whose own overall size/shape/handle still allows me to take it in the same trip as the keyboard and stand. This could depend on things like whether it would easily fit into a shoulder bag, or if it's somehow possible to carry the three pieces (keyboard, stand, amp) with just two hands, etc. Some carry bags can be worn as backpacks which could help, though like Niacin, my inclination is to typically carry the keyboard from ceremony to cocktail without even bothering to put it in its case. So that's another variable perhaps worth discussing in this thread... For people who need to have a keyboard, amp, and stand at two locations in a gig, do you care if it takes two trips? If you can do it in one, how do you do it? e.g. leave an extra stand already set up? carry one of the pieces backpack-style? use a particular combination that allows you to carry two of the three pieces with one hand/arm? Bring a cart? I'll have to do Ceremony and/or cocktail and/or my Top 40 set with my band ... I'll break down the CP4 ... and march it over to the next spot to plop it on a waiting stand and otherwise fully set up rig. This....My Vox-73, which is the bottom board in my regular 2-board rig, does the job admirably and has the bonus of being easy to move in a hurry - power off, leads out, and go. Most of the time I don't even bother putting it in a case. If I were playing the gig with a single board, or using a pair in an L-shape instead of a stack, I'd more likely be good with more often using the same board everywhere. But, while I have done it on occasion, I usually prefer to leave the 2-board stack completely wired up and ready to go. If I'm going to take the bottom out after soundcheck in order to use it elsewhere, it's clumsy to un-wire its pedals/audio/power, pull it out (especially since often my top board is resting on its rear), and then upon return, quickly get it back into place and re-wired. Especially since wiring up a bottom board while its sitting under a top board is awkward to begin with, and sometimes stages are really tight and the rest of the band is already playing something while waiting for me to join them, limiting my access even further. And there's the time pressure, if I absolutely have to be ready to play quickly for the couple's big entrance. About the only time I can do it really comfortably is if I'm playing ceremony and reception, but not playing the cocktail in between, in which case I have plenty of time available for re-placing and re-wiring the board. Since 2019 my answer to this scenario is Casio PX S-3000 + Bose S1 Blue tooth speaker. It has to be small and intimate for the speakers in the Casio to be enough but the Bose S1 at 15.7 lbs is plenty for any wedding ceremony or cocktail hour I"m ever going to play. Yeah, that would work especially if you want to do a ceremony completely from battery (and for that purpose, it's lighter than the JBL). The Bose is still a bit heavier than I'd like, though. If you don't need battery operation, the Behinger B208D weighs slightly less, would sound fine for this, and would save about $500. And then there's that new Alto that was mentioned. Every now and then, a light battery-based setup would have been a really convenient thing for me to have, but it hasn't been important enough for me to justify the additional expense. But there are surely players who can benefit from it more than I would. I'd be curious whether the 20 watt speakers in the Kawai ES520 and ES920 make a critical difference in these scenarios. Are they loud enough that you don't need support amplification in the situations talked about in this thread? When every minute counts, not having an extra piece to plug in and carry is a huge advantage.Yes... I would bet that those would be loud enough. Though at 32 lbs, even the ES520 is a bit heavy for my taste. (Same weight as my old Roland FP2.) Probably a great choice for some people, though. I really like some of the Kawai piano sounds. Not sure why 73 keys are a necessity for this type of gig. solo/duo work is typically acoustic, softer music that should be able to be covered with a 61 key keyboard. Yes, I can get by on 61 if I must (as I said, I tried the Korg PA1000). But when playing solo cocktail work, I do miss the extra keys. An example of where this quickly comes into play is when you're playing a song in A or B. If you octave-shift down to get to a decent "bass" key below what would otherwise be the lowest C, you lose some higher notes you'd probably really like to be able to get to. (Heck, I've only recently gotten psychologically comfortable with not having 88!) Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allan_evett Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 Scott, I like the PC4-7 idea. Sounds like an ideal solution for a instrument that can be quick-swapped between two rigs, in the same venue. The only question remaining is how to best amplify the solo rig, and certainly built-in speakers can be a time-saver. If I ended up doing a lot of solo stuff again, I'd strongly consider picking up another RD-88; though for anything occasional I'd just move my YC88 between areas and use my QSC CP-8 (or possibly my iLoud speaker, if the gathering is small). For the situation you've described, the RD-88 would be a strong contender. I thought the built-in speakers carried well in a small-mid size room. I sold mine mostly due to live, front-panel ergonomics (especially in a mulit-keys rig on dark stages), and I had mixed feelings on the decay of the SN piano tones. But it is a very practical and playable instrument, and may be worth considering in this instance. Quote 'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo. We need a barfing cat emoticon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 Many trips with multiple rigs (and having to set up, tear down & re-shlep multiple rigs back to the car or van)? Or, multiple trips to move a single rig between locations (but only one rig to shlep to & from the car or van)? I'll go with the latter, keeping in mind that being a keyboardist usually means more opportunities to go home with a little extra cake than the rest of the band. Years ago I dabbled with the idea of getting the smallest & lightest keyboard that would be workable for ceremonies. For me that was the Yamaha "Piaggero" NP-11: 14 lbs, 61 keys, passable piano. I never pulled the trigger. My Roland A800 is lighter; I just had to shlep the SKB Studio Flyer with my laptop along with the keyboard, stand, and speaker. I sucked it up and did it. Eyes on the prize - my check. Today I would leave the SKB at the cocktail hour and plug the A800 into my iPad for the ceremony. For cocktail hours I always wanted my "A" rig (laptop & two K8s) - it was usually the only chance I got full autonomy to play only what I enjoyed! I had some backing tracks I made for jazz & Brazilian tunes too. Of course, then came another bout of shleprosy to get everything to the main reception room. I did this as efficiently as possible but never worked up a big sweat and the bandleaders were accomodating. Many times the band would start the set while I was finishing setting up â the guitarist laying down some chords. It always worked out. The way I see it, if you have to suffer through these equipment moving bouts, an accomodating bandleader can make the difference between a tolerable and a hellish gig. These days there seems to be a good selection of speakers and keyboards that tick the right boxes for weight, sound, and convenience (e.g., battery operation for instance). There are also those portable Li-Ion battery packs that can power gear requiring AC voltage, even a decently loud PPA. There's still one product class that has yet to be made available to the working musician though: drones that can lift your gear and follow you to where you need to set up! Come on Elon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted September 20, 2021 Author Share Posted September 20, 2021 For the situation you've described, the RD-88 would be a strong contender. I thought the built-in speakers carried well in a small-mid size room. Another interesting contender. If its speakers are as loud as those in the old FP2/FP4, that would be loud enough, and still under 30lbs, though still 2+ lbs more than the Dexibell P3 (which is the heaviest of my current considerations)... though the Dexibell is noticeably pricier (and is being discontinued). The RD88 also has the full 88 keys, for those who don't want to compromise there. For me personally, though, I'm afraid it's still too close to the too-heavy 32 lbs of the FP2. (Even the 28 lb Dexibell may be borderline.) I sold mine mostly due to live, front-panel ergonomics (especially in a mulit-keys rig on dark stages), and I had mixed feelings on the decay of the SN piano tones. If it has the same SuperNATURAL pianos/EPs as the Integra/FA, those are not among my favorites either. The front panel ergonomics actually look pretty decent to me, from the manual. At least in my case, having 10 definable buttons for patch recall largely covers what I need out of a bottom board (and if you can easily switch to another bank of ten, so much the better). The easily accessible dedicated controls for reverb, transpose, EQ and separate volume controls for split/layered sounds is a nice bonus I haven't often had on my bottoms, along with what looks like pretty easy integration of an external iPad sound source if need be. (That is, it *looks* like you could define a given Favorite button to simply call up a particular sound from the iPad, yes?) Obviously, its fine for the pretty limited purposes that are the topic of this thread, which is presumably part of why you brought it up here in the first place, but at least the way I've typically used a bottom board, I don't think I'd have issues using it as a bottom either, and I especially like its shallow depth which lets you keep the second tier board close. But in most of the 2-board gigs I've done, I just do basic bread-and-butter stuff on the bottom board, and all the fancier tricks are done in my top board. (Though that may change, since I've started using my PC4-7 as a bottom.) It sounds like you might demand more out of your bottom than I typically have. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted September 20, 2021 Author Share Posted September 20, 2021 Today I would leave the SKB at the cocktail hour and plug the A800 into my iPad for the ceremony. and do what for amplification? Many times the band would start the set while I was finishing setting up yes, we've done that... we make sure that the first 2 or 3 songs of the first set are ones the band can do with or without keys. But it can still be a bit awkward and stressful. There are also times where the very first thing the band plays is the intro of the B&G and first dance, and keys may have to be up and running for that. And there are times when I'm doing LH bass, and then it's that much harder for the rest of the band to play songs without me while I complete the transition. So yeah, I usually find it better to just bring another board. Which brings us back to the top... how small, light, and quick-to-setup can we make this "second rig?" Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lsj Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 yamaha psr series or yamaha genos or korg. everything tosaound like a full band Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 Today I would leave the SKB at the cocktail hour and plug the A800 into my iPad for the ceremony. and do what for amplification? If I were to do this today it would be one of my K8s since it's the only amplification I have (except for an ancient Roland "keyboard cube" that weighs about as much as the K). This would be the case whether I was using my iPad for the piano or if I brought my SKB case with laptop. I was speaking hypothetically since I haven't done a wedding in many years. If I was still doing them I'd probably be in the market for that new Alto TX308 or one of those battery-operated guys. The idea of a slab DP with built-in speakers doesn't make much sense to me because 1) I'd be surprised to find the built-ins loud enough for every ceremony or cocktail hour (meaning I would still need an amp some or maybe most of the time), and 2) weight-wise I think it would be a wash or close to it, compared to what I carry now. Many times the band would start the set while I was finishing setting up yes, we've done that... we make sure that the first 2 or 3 songs of the first set are ones the band can do with or without keys. But it can still be a bit awkward and stressful. There are also times where the very first thing the band plays is the intro of the B&G and first dance, and keys may have to be up and running for that. And there are times when I'm doing LH bass, and then it's that much harder for the rest of the band to play songs without me while I complete the transition. So yeah, I usually find it better to just bring another board. Which brings us back to the top... how small, light, and quick-to-setup can we make this "second rig?" Every band is different and for all I know times have changed since I've played these gigs but for us, the first two tunes were always played as the guests were ambling into the reception room and getting seated. Just background, light jazz, etc. Nothing that a guitarist couldn't handle by themselves while I finished setting up. To try and answer your Q, "how small, light, and quick-to-setup can we make this 'second rig?'", of course we'll all have different priorities. Since my "first" rig is a 61-key semi-weighted, it's obvious I don't care about "piano feel" so the smallest & lightest 61-key with a half-decent piano is fine. In general, as an oldster, less weight is probably the #1 priority if I had to choose a rig for a wedding ceremony. I haven't heard this new Alto, but if I had to make a decision right now it would be my A800 (10 lbs) into my iPad, going to one of those TX308s (12 lbs). If I was able to carry my single-x stand in the crook of my arm I might be even be one-trip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted September 20, 2021 Author Share Posted September 20, 2021 yamaha psr series or yamaha genos or korg. everything tosaound like a full band Yes, the PA1000 can do that, and that may have some other potential use for me, e.g. on duo/trio gigs without a drummer, but I haven't made use of it yet. For cocktail stuff, I'm fine without "backing." The idea of a slab DP with built-in speakers doesn't make much sense to me because 1) I'd be surprised to find the built-ins loud enough for every ceremony or cocktail hour (meaning I would still need an amp some or maybe most of the time) Yes, that's a big part of the limitations of choices here... but in my experience, for anything I've been hired to do solo (or duo with someone who needs little to no amplification), yes, the speakers of the models I've been talking about actually can handle it. Basically, the volume of an actual grand piano is about the goal. After all, there are venues where I do cocktail hour on the piano that's there, and that volume is fine. But the speakers in most sub-30 lb keyboards can't get there (including any of the lightweight models I've played from Casio, Kawai, Korg, Studiologic, Yamaha). If you look at heavier models, you can open up more possibilities. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 I was highly involved in that scene for almost 40 years in LA. Not proud of it but it helped get our house, my grand pianos and greatly contributed to my now being in the financial position of being able to give the huge middle finger to anything resembling that anymore. I guess I was a glutton for punishment because I always used the same keyboard for everything. But I did have one of those old small Tascam powered monitors for ceremonies and cocktail stuff. It was like those Galaxy hot spot vocal monitors but better quality sound. I vividly recall one brutal schlep at the Bel Air Bay club in Malibu for the wedding reception of Chicago drummer Tris Imboden. It seems like every name musician in LA was there and it sort of cemented my dubious rep as a "casual guy" . I was setting up on the front yard down this steep hill for the ceremony. It was around 11 AM and it was already boiling hot even at the beach. There must've been 75 prominent LA musicians sitting in the chairs watching me make multiple trips (because my dolly wouldn't work with the steps) up and down this hill with my gear in a tux. And did one offer to lend a hand....are you kidding ? I've managed to erase the pain from my memory banks on most of them but that one still stands out. Indeed, as far as paying gigs, it has been the most consistent and lucrative for me as well. The schlep sucks, however I have always enjoyed the camaraderie of excellent players with similarly musical life experiences. On the upside, technology and MI venders have gotten the weight down! My worst load in was a ship gig involving two different docking locations at start and end of night. Summer sucks for formal attire, and stair cases on ships are too damn narrow. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.