New Studiologic Numa X Piano

[AnotherScott]

Isn't that what I meant ? That on the TP100LR triple sensor and the TP40W (and to a lesser extend the Tp400W) it is virtually impossible to really have any benefits from the 3rd sensor in the form of fast repetitions / trills etc from the 'low key" ?!

 

From what I can tell (and the distinction I was trying to make), it is not *virtually* impossible to get that function out of at least some "3 sensor" TP100s... "virtually" would mean that if you keep trying, you can sometimes get it to happen, or there are some circumstances where it can work. Rather, I am suggesting that it is *literally* impossible for it to EVER work. Based on what I talked about in my comment on that video, the piece of plastic in the key that would trigger the middle sensor appears to be entirely missing from the design! So there's physically no way to trigger it. So the keyboard simply cannot provide the behavior we are discussing.

[miden]

FWIW, on the SL88 Studio (which I believe also has that keybed) I find fast repetitions easier than on any other 'board I have played. So it must work somehow. Honky tonk style wrist rocking chords are also much easier.

[GianfrixMG]

What´s "keyboard sensitivity" control ?

Quoting the manual https://www.studiologic-music.com/support/numa_x_piano/Numa_X_Piano_Manual_EN.pdf:

KBD SENSITIVITY

Starting from the current curve, you can adjust the sensitivity in a range between -25% (heavier) and +25% (lighter).

 

When striking any or only black keys "far back" is an issue also w/ the more expensive TP400W action,- it possibly makes no sense to spend the money when the TP110 actions are significantly better than former TP100.

The key length on the TP110 should be the same as it is on the TP100, so hitting the keys in the "far back" should have a similar feel in both these models. In the new model they mostly redesigned the hammers (rotating them in order to have a better inertia for improved key feel), changed the aftertouch strip placement and the felts in order to reduce bouncing.

 

I haven't been able to try it yet (there's lack of stock even here in Italy) but a guy in another forum I'm on bought it and said the keys felt much better. The keys are still on the heavier side though, but more "fluent" than the TP100.

[CyberGene]

I haven't been able to try it yet (there's lack of stock even here in Italy) but a guy in another forum I'm on bought it and said the keys felt much better. The keys are still on the heavier side though, but more "fluent" than the TP100.

 

I'm wondering if it is inevitable for such a lightweight action (in terms of total weight) to have heavy feeling keys. I mean if it comes from the design. Because the TP100 family of actions seems to be used in keyboards that are not explicitly targeted at hardcore acoustic piano aficionados but are mostly used in multi-purpose keyboards with pianos, Rhodes, organ and synths (Nord Electro for example) and most player would agree that a hammer-action with as light feeling keys as possible is desirable.

[AnotherScott]

I'm wondering if it is inevitable for such a lightweight action (in terms of total weight) to have heavy feeling keys. I mean if it comes from the design.

Well, the old Casios we were talking about provides some evidence to the contrary. Also the actions in the Roland FP4 and FP2 (with the latter being the slightly lighter of the two).

[JFP]

Cybergene, My ES920 is pretty portable with the new plastic casing and RHIII (version2) keybed. If they put that in a MP7SE successor and make it really light to cary around , it's a winner IMHO. The key action is pretty light to play and ver responsive. Some people complain about bouncing keys and key noise . But to be honest - it doesn't bother me when you are actually playing the thing (either with speakers or good headphones). It may be a distraction for people in the room when you play with headphones, but which key action isn't. Only the GFII / III is very quiet and perhaps the Hybrid Grand action in the current Roland LX series. In other words - a lightweight action / case design doesn't have to end with a stiff and heavy to play keybed. You can actually have a very portable piano with very good action these days if it all fits together..., but the Tp100 was not.

[GianfrixMG]

I haven't been able to try it yet (there's lack of stock even here in Italy) but a guy in another forum I'm on bought it and said the keys felt much better. The keys are still on the heavier side though, but more "fluent" than the TP100.

 

I'm wondering if it is inevitable for such a lightweight action (in terms of total weight) to have heavy feeling keys. I mean if it comes from the design. Because the TP100 family of actions seems to be used in keyboards that are not explicitly targeted at hardcore acoustic piano aficionados but are mostly used in multi-purpose keyboards with pianos, Rhodes, organ and synths (Nord Electro for example) and most player would agree that a hammer-action with as light feeling keys as possible is desirable.

Keyboards with GHS such as the MODX8 or the MOXF8 weigh 14kg but their actions are lighter than the TP100 (at least it was on the model I tried). I think some of the weight is in the hammer themselves, but you also have to consider the build of the keybed itself. The TP100 and the new TP100 are fully plastic keybeds and weigh 6kg. The TP400 weighs 14kg.

 

Source:

(italian video, subtitles are available!)

[AnotherScott]

True, GHS action is not a heavy feeling action. Though (as has been discussed before) it seems to feel better or worse--including quicker or more sluggish--in different boards. As does the TP100, for that matter. While never a truly light feeling action, I've played boards where I thought it felt awful, and others where I thought it was pretty good.

[CyberGene]

Cybergene, My ES920 is pretty portable with the new plastic casing and RHIII (version2) keybed. If they put that in a MP7SE successor and make it really light to cary around , it's a winner IMHO. The key action is pretty light to play and ver responsive. Some people complain about bouncing keys and key noise . But to be honest - it doesn't bother me when you are actually playing the thing (either with speakers or good headphones). It may be a distraction for people in the room when you play with headphones, but which key action isn't. Only the GFII / III is very quiet and perhaps the Hybrid Grand action in the current Roland LX series. In other words - a lightweight action / case design doesn't have to end with a stiff and heavy to play keybed. You can actually have a very portable piano with very good action these days if it all fits together..., but the Tp100 was not.

 

I owned a MP6 and it was excellent stage piano although not lightweight. I still have my old ES7 (not in my house though) and I love its light and nimble action for non-classical work. However I still think RH-equipped Kawai pianos are rather heavy as total weight. The ES920 is listed as 17kg. I'm after 11kg boards. Wondering how the Medeli actions such as in the Kurzweil PC4 compare to the rest in terms of feel.

[AnotherScott]

I still think RH-equipped Kawai pianos are rather heavy as total weight. The ES920 is listed as 17kg. I'm after 11kg boards. Wondering how the Medeli actions such as in the Kurzweil PC4 compare to the rest in terms of feel.

The ES520 is a pretty light board, supposedly with a better version of what they use in the ES110. I don't think these are heavy feeling, but I haven't had the chance to play an ES520, and only got to play the ES110 for about 30 seconds and didn't really take note of how heavy or light it was (so I guess at least it was not extreme in either direction, or was not one of the more immediately notable qualities), though I remember it feeling kind of "rubbery" if that makes sense. But I really need to spend some more time on it/them.

 

Wondering how the Medeli actions such as in the Kurzweil PC4 compare to the rest in terms of feel.

On the lighter side, kind of in GHS territory, I'd say.

 

I also meant to reply to this one...

 

I used to have a Casio CDP-100 (if I'm not mistaken about the exact model) which at the time was not only the cheapest possible digital piano with hammer action but also the lightest one (as total board weight). And yes, I remember having it for a while together with my RD-700SX (whose action IMO had the perfect weighted feel for all type of sounds between pianos, Rhodes and synths but the entire board was ridiculously heavy) and the action in that cheap Casio was not very different feeling than the Roland. The sounds were total cr*p though but they worked for non-pretentious gigs and later on I switched to VST-s.

If it was the CDP-100, I think it had a Rhodes sound I liked, a "dark" Rhodes that was also on some (but not all) of the early Privias. But yes, it was a lightweight hammer action board that had a pretty nice, quick action. Not heavy feeling. I never played the RD700SX, which google tells me had their PHA keyboard. I don't remember playing a board with that, but the FP7 had the PHA II, and I really liked that action. Light and quick, but yeah, the board was a bit of a tank. Kind of like what Yamaha did in the CP1/CP5.

[Noah DC]

Maybe this is an imaginary concern, but let"s not scare away the reviews/info from the few folks who have actually tried these boards with wild (but informed) speculation. Would love to hear more from the folks in Europe who have started to receive the TP-110 Numas.

[wd8dky]

Several new tutorials were posted on YT last night by Studiologic.

[kenheeter]

Can you share a link? Thanks!

[JoeD]

The video tutorials are also on their support page:

 

https://www.studiologic-music.com/support/numa_x_piano/

[JFP]

I see several X 73 and X 88 already being offered as B-Stock, meaning returned bij the customer after a very short period , because the units have only come available very recently. Wonder what this says about the Tp110 acceptation . Unfortunately still no reviews yet

[CyberGene]

Indeed, there are now B-stock models at Thomann just a week after they became available and have had arrived at the first customer. This is worrying.

[AnotherScott]

It's possible that the B-stocks are coming straight from Studiologic that way... e.g. units they manufactured but had a cosmetic defect, or ones they used as demo models, so are not necessarily customer returns.

 

Here's a nice eval from another site, though not of the TP-110 model... http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3184787/studiologic-numa-x-gt-impressions.html#Post3184787

[Amaryllis]

Here's a nice eval from another site, though not of the TP-110 model... http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3184787/studiologic-numa-x-gt-impressions.html#Post3184787

 

i'm very interested in the GT, so it's good to see reviews have started coming in... but i was a bit surprised to read this:

 

The escapement sensation is nice, but the sensors are placed in the same wrong way, which makes it a bit weird: is push the key down silently to just when escapement starts, and then accelerate though it, you get no sound. On a real grand you get a sound of course, since the escapement tells you you are still in contact with the hammer.

 

this sounds like a completely wrong implementation of escapement, to the point that i wonder why they bothered - but maybe you don't notice when you're actually playing it? unfortunately none of the music shops around here seem to stock Studiologic, so it's difficult to try one in person.

[JFP]

Sorry , but can't chime in on that. I had the Decibel S9 with TP400W without escapement , which was an excellent , very easy to play en smooth keybed with very good aftertouch response , but had no escapement. So if the TP400W with escapement in the Numa GT is a redesign I can't say for sure if it will be the same experience. I expect the basic feel and touch to be the same, but who knows. Hope it is actually, regardless of the escarpment (which doesn't;t bother me at all for a multi purpose stage piano , only for a digital acoustic home piano type of instrument. On a stage you also play organ , EP , strings , brass etc , so escapement might only be in the way in the end...

[Amaryllis]

Sorry , but can't chime in on that. I had the Decibel S9 with TP400W without escapement , which was an excellent , very easy to play en smooth keybed with very good aftertouch response , but had no escapement. So if the TP400W with escapement in the Numa GT is a redesign I can't say for sure if it will be the same experience. I expect the basic feel and touch to be the same, but who knows. Hope it is actually, regardless of the escarpment (which doesn't;t bother me at all for a multi purpose stage piano , only for a digital acoustic home piano type of instrument. On a stage you also play organ , EP , strings , brass etc , so escapement might only be in the way in the end...

 

that's good to know about the Dexibell version - playing the TP/100 has put me off Fatar a bit, but i'm trying to reserve judgement of the TP/400 until i play it :-)

 

in the end also i'm not too bothered if it actually has escapement or not - none of the other boards i'm considering have it. i thought it was strange they would add it if it doesn't work properly, but there's some more discussion in that thread (along with a helpful video) that suggests it's a bit more complicated than that; maybe it's just one of those things that can't be entirely simulated on a digital piano action.

[Dockeys]

So my Numa X 73 arrived this afternoon. I"ve only had an hour to play it and I need to delve into it in much more detail. Please take these findings with a large pinch of salt as it"s early days yet and I have a 30 day return policy. So I may not make up my mind for a few weeks on this. had similar feelings to previous poster Tomsurf, the keybed does bottom out a little early. I felt it like a cross between the CP73 and the GHS in the MODX8. Not that heavy but when playing left hand comping I felt not all of the notes of the chords were depressing fully or sounding. That"s totally down to me getting used to the action. The more I played it the more it felt like the GHS so later tonight I"m going to sit down with both the MODX8 and the Numa x side by side and okay them, even midi them up to each other and see how similar these actions are.

 

Soundwise there"s quite a lot on offer. Pianos are nice and very editable. Rhodes and Wurlys the same but would need serious tweaking for me. I felt the hammers and tines were way too much to the fore of the sound. They reminded me of the Roland stock Rhodes sound and I"ve always preferred the stock Yamaha Rhodes sound which I feel is smoother? Clav were good, basses ranged from nice and woody for the uprights to fat for the synth ones. The pads are a real highlight so far. Lots of lush ones in there and that without layering anything, just the standard one voice employed. Strings are ok, ensembles ok too, seemed a little weak.

 

Build quality is really good. Nice strong chassis, Very small footprint andâ¦..yes very light. The ergonomics are very good on it. The buttons are all self explanatory and have multiple functions (up/down/left/right/infinite scroll/push to confirm. Very clever system though I wonder how long they would last as using them for multiple tasks could wear out but they seem very sturdy. The colour coding is a nice touch and makes complete sense. Splits and layers are easy. In fact I haven"t looked at the manual yet and the only thing I couldn"t figure out was how to insert specific effects to a soundâ¦eg a phaser on a Rhodes for FX1 knob rather than the stock chorus. It"s probably easy once I read up on it but everything else was there in front of me. I did find myself touching the screen to confirm actions at timesâ¦used to the previous Kronos and the current MoDX8. It has specific confirm and cancel buttons for this but fine once you get used to it. And it comes with a pretty good sustain pedal as well. Not the square block that you chase around the floor. A pedal-shaped pedal! The outputs and inputs are also clearly labelled on the top and back of the board so no bending over at awkward angles to find the right slot. All in all a very well thought out and quite a handsome looking machine.

 

So I"m going to do more work on it tonight. It"s between this and the CP73 for me. I had a CP73 last year but returned it as it had the MODX8 and having both was overkill. It"s a tough call as the Numa is two kilos lighter and 500 cheaper at least. It has as many sounds as the CP73, probably more intuitive ergonomics for me and very useful 4 zone inputs that have dedicated knobs for volume (very useful if I decide to add the iPad to the mix). I"m still thinking the Cp73 probably wins on action so I"m just undecided yet as to what to do. Feel is a big thing for me and I"ve always liked the Yamahas for action and sound. But is it worth the extra 500 and weight? Dunno. Will report back with more comments once I spend more time with it.

 

(One hour later) Just spent another hour with it now. Works seamlessly with the iPad Pro. I just plugged a usb cable from Numa in the thunderbolt port of the iPad (latest gen M1). iPad sounds come through the Numa outputs. No lag or latency. I experimented with B-3X, neo soul keys, Korg M1, Korg Module. All excellent and faultless. I did have velocity issues with Ravenscroft, apart from the default classic patch the others were very loud and didn"t have much in the way of dynamic variation. I think this may have been the app as it was the only one with issues. I used iReal pro for some jazz backing tracks with bass and drums and played the stock Numa piano. It worked a treat. You have the usb audio knob on the Numa to control the incoming audio or a quick depress will mute the sound.

 

I set up my MODX8 next to the Numa and tried playing. So I think the action in the Numa is slightly firmer, I don"t want to say heavier but perhaps more solid in terms of feel and also solid when the key is depressed. I feel like id like them to depress a fraction more if that makes sense? So I wouldn"t want the action any heavier than it is but sometimes it feels like the keys could travel a few mm"s more for my liking. The MODX has a shallower depression but the keys feel looser than the Numa. I"m hoping to go to a local music store tomorrow and try the CP73 again just to see how it reacts to my playing. Going to try and spend another few hours with it over the weekend so will report back when I do.

[thomsurf]

Congrats on your new board. I agree with a lot of your impressions. You have to hold down the bottom effect button in order to change effect. The abillity to apply different effects and reverb types to pianos, eps and organs makes a huge difference.

[stoken6]

So my Numa X 73 arrived this afternoon.[...]I felt it like a cross between the CP73 and the GHS in the MODX8.

That's several orders of magnitude of improvement over the TP/100 imho.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[kenheeter]

Dockeys, I'm very much interested in your impression of the keybed. I have a Nord Stage 2 EX 76 with the TP100 keybed and I can get along well with it but I'm hoping the TP110 is just a little bit better. I have my name on the first Numa X 73 when it arrives....

[Dockeys]

I have played the Stage 2 88 note regularly..is that the same action as the EX? I found that ok, a little light maybe but I could easily gig with it. It"s still early days for me with the Numa but I"d say the action would be firmer than the Stage 2 but it"s the length of travel before it bottoms out is something I have to get used to. That"s why I was trying it with the iPad sounds as well and I"m going to midi the Modx8 up to it tomorrow to try some of the Yamaha Rhodes on it.

[Dockeys]

I should also say in terms of keybeds I like I"ve been a big fan of the keybed in the 88 note Yamaha motifs over the years. Motif8, XS8, XF8 and the S90ES and S90XS. I think they all used the same action? I also have the Kawai CN 35 in the front room which has the Responsive Hammer III which is lovely to play. And lately I"ve been using the Casio PXS1100 which is very playable. Much lighter but still fun to play.

[drawback]

Good review, Dockeys. I'm most interested in tweaking the Rhodes/Wurlitzer models in most boards to my liking and the modeling aspects of EPs & APs could be the thing that sets this Numa X above most others. From what I can tell from the videos, the EP & AP core sounds have promise, especially if they allow for deeper adjustments to hammers, tines & pickups (like VTines) and string resonances & voicings (like PianoTeq). Though I doubt the Numa X will be as editable as those (I remain hopeful), but I'm very interested in hearing what you're able to coax out of these. I'm also happy to hear about the apparent lightness of the action in comparison with other boards I'm more familiar with.

 

Best of luck, please post more!

[Dockeys]

Good review, Dockeys. I'm most interested in tweaking the Rhodes/Wurlitzer models in most boards to my liking and the modeling aspects of EPs & APs could be the thing that sets this Numa X above most others. From what I can tell from the videos, the EP & AP core sounds have promise, especially if they allow for deeper adjustments to hammers, tines & pickups (like VTines) and string resonances & voicings (like PianoTeq). Though I doubt the Numa X will be as editable as those (I remain hopeful), but I'm very interested in hearing what you're able to coax out of these. I'm also happy to hear about the apparent lightness of the action in comparison with other boards I'm more familiar with.

 

Best of luck, please post more!

 

Pianoteq is my go to vst in the studio. I"ve been playing it for years and I like that you can tweak it so much. Ironically on the pianos I usually only end up tweaking the pedal noise. You can do that on the Numa. It"s goes from very subtle to really loud. I also like the clean Rhodes and wurly on pianoteq. I usually dial in some tremolo and that"s it I"m good to good and can play for hours. I also have and enjoy scarbee ep88 but am constantly drawn back to the eps in pianoteq. Numas editing reminds me of pianoteq which is what I like so far. Will need to delve deeper to get the sound I want.

[Noah DC]

Thanks so much for these notes - great review. Interested to hear more once you"ve had some time with the Numa.

 

Re: Pianoteq, one of the main selling points for this board beyond weight and footprint is the built-in interface. I used to run Pianoteq on an old Surface Pro 2 and as far as I can tell, all I"d need to do to get one-touch access to Pianoteq through this board is connect the Surface"s USB port to the Numa. Same goes for VB3 or Mellotron on an iPad. To me, that gives the Numa a big leg up over higher-quality, much more expensive boards like, say, a Nord Piano 5 73 or a Nord Stage.

[Al Quinn]

Nice review Doc. Thanks! This board sounds promising. Looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts.