New Studiologic Numa X Piano

[CyberGene]

26 minutes ago, HammondDave said:

Hi Thomsurf...  Just to confirm, you are talking about the Numa Piano X 88, correct?

I believe that is correct. The Stagebag NP-76 has the following internal dimensions: 1270 x 320 x 120 mm

And the Numa X Piano 88 has the following dimensions: 1265 x 310 x 123 mm

 

Seems like a perfect fit. BTW, the price is almost the same as the Studiologic Bag 2, which is an even more perfect fit and is a branded one 😀 I ordered it and maybe this week hopefully I will have both my 88 and the bag and will let you know how good they are.

[funkyhammond]

19 hours ago, HammondDave said:

My next question... Who makes a good soft case for this? I ordered a Rockville 73 key slim case but it arrived with a broken wheel.  OY.  Any suggestions? 

 

I'm also looking at the Gator GKB-76 SLIM in case I decide to get the  X Piano 88. I had been looking at it in case I get a CP/YC88 to see what alternatives there are to the Yamaha soft case. The Yamaha case looks very nice, weighs a bit more, and is much pricier. The Studiologic and Soundwear cases don't have as much padding based on the pics and specs. The Gator is listed as having 20mm whereas the Soundwear only has 12mm, for example. The Gator and Yamaha both have wheels.

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GKB76Slim--gator-gkb-76-slim-keyboard-gig-bag

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/YSCCP88--yamaha-ysccp88-soft-case-for-cp88

[b3plyr]

Have any of you that actually have the Numa Piano X played with the audio inputs? The advertisements say use for instruments, microphones, etc. Instruments are usually high impedance and microphones low impedance. Additionally, most microphones are XLR and would require an XLR to single ended plug. Unless, of course, the inputs are balanced. I doubt this is the case. Any experiences?

[funkyhammond]

3 hours ago, b3plyr said:

Have any of you that actually have the Numa Piano X played with the audio inputs? The advertisements say use for instruments, microphones, etc. Instruments are usually high impedance and microphones low impedance. Additionally, most microphones are XLR and would require an XLR to single ended plug. Unless, of course, the inputs are balanced. I doubt this is the case. Any experiences?

 

I believe PianoMan Chuck mentioned in his youtube review what kind of adapter you need. You might want to check there. I didn't pay attention. I would guess XLR to 1/4" unbalanced. I can't see any mention in the manual about balanced or unbalanced. But it does show that each input has a gain and low/mid/hi EQ setting. The 4 inputs are all mono and you just configure in the menu whether they will be mixed as 4 mono, 2 stereo, or 1 stereo + 2 mono. 

[funkyhammond]

I had a chance to briefly try out the Numa X Piano 88 for about an hour today. The local L&M had one on the floor and I popped in on my way to see a baseball game. These are just quick first impressions.

 

The action felt quite good. Not too heavy and no bounce. Perfect for me. The CP88 that was right there felt a bit heavier. I'm really impressed with the action considering the price point and that the overall board is quite light for an 88. Good touch-to-sound connection with the APs and EPs. Seemed to have a lot of dynamic range with smooth tonal transition from quiet to loud, including the EPs. It might be worth noting that I don't play classical music so I can't comment on how good the action or anything is for that.

 

The interface is quite straight forward to navigate without having to look in the manual. The only thing I couldn't find was if there were any deeper edits to the pianos. Now that I have looked at the manual, I see that there are some. I had missed the long-press 'zoom' function which goes into some deeper settings. The APs have four adjustments: Tone, String Res, Duplex Res Scale, and Pedal Noise. The EPs also have four adjustments: Hammer (mic position), Offset (Y-axis), Tines (volume), and Pedal Noise. 

 

I bring up the deep edits because I would need to play around with the Rhodes sounds a bit. While the dynamics are very smooth and I was quite happy about that, I did find that the sound across the keyboard was sometimes not that consistent. The samples seemed to be assigned to clusters of 4 semitones and sometimes I could easily hear the transition from one sample to another, especially in the middle few octaves of the keyboard. Sometimes the tines stood out more in one cluster or the tines sounded a bit weird. I compared it to the CP88. The default Rhodes 01 in the CP is very well balanced and consistent up and down the keyboard. It sounds as if the X Piano is replicating a lot of nice details and character of an imperfectly maintained Rhodes. That's not necessarily a bad thing but I'm just not used to it from a digital keyboard. It would be better as an "alternate" sample just like how some boards have imperfect acoustic upright pianos. But all three Rhodes in the X Piano (Mk I, Mk II, Suitcase) have inconsistencies across the keyboard. The other thing that bugged me was that the Mk I sample doesn't bark and the Mk II sample, although it barks, sounds dyno'd. I don't remember the Suitcase sample very well other than it was okay but I wouldn't want it as my default. I would have liked the Mk I sample as my default if it would bark when playing hard. I'm hoping that if I try again and play a bit with the deeper settings for the mic distance and tine volume, I might get some more balanced results out of the Mk II or Suitcase to use as a potential all-around default.

 

The Wurly's seemed decent. I think there were a couple of Pianets but they sounded super soft/mellow. The Clavs were okay, not bad, not great, but there is a version with the mute engaged, which you don't always see. I think I like the Clav sounds in the CP/YC better.

 

No mono synth leads? I couldn't find a way to turn a synth sound into mono for smoother leads and I don't see anything in the manual for doing that. That's disappointing.

 

The pitch bend stick is a bit weird. It's short and has a bit of extra resistance to get it out of center home position. This makes smaller pitch bends (e.g. first 1/4 or 1/2 of range) difficult to do smoothly.

 

That's all for now.

 

 

 

 

[CyberGene]

15 minutes ago, funkyhammond said:

I would need to play around with the Rhodes sounds a bit. While the dynamics are very smooth and I was quite happy about that, I did find that the sound across the keyboard was sometimes not that consistent. The samples seemed to be assigned to clusters of 4 semitones and sometimes I could easily hear the transition from one sample to another, especially in the middle few octaves of the keyboard.

 

That is odd, since the Rhodes in the Numa X is physically modeled, i.e. it doesn't use any samples at all. Maybe the transition you heard was an intentionally modeled behavior or is just a bug in the implementation?

 

17 minutes ago, funkyhammond said:

The action felt quite good. Not too heavy and no bounce. Perfect for me. The CP88 that was right there felt a bit heavier. I'm really impressed with the action considering the price point and that the overall board is quite light for an 88. Good touch-to-sound connection with the APs and EPs. Seemed to have a lot of dynamic range with smooth tonal transition from quiet to loud, including the EPs.

 

Thank you for your review! It's good to hear the Numa feels lighter than the CP88 since I find the Yamaha NWX and NW-GH actions kind of heavy for my taste, but then I found the Fatar TP/100LR even heavier and unpleasant. I was worried its successor the TP110 in the new Numa X pianos might not have improved upon that but a few people already express the opinion it feels right. My Numa X Piano 88 is already in Sofia (where I live), so I am expecting it any time now, hopefully today or tomorrow and I am super excited

[D. Gauss]

these have built in speakers?

[Dockeys]

26 minutes ago, D. Gauss said:

these have built in speakers?

No not this range. I think the compact range do have speakers?

[funkyhammond]

7 hours ago, CyberGene said:

 

That is odd, since the Rhodes in the Numa X is physically modeled, i.e. it doesn't use any samples at all. Maybe the transition you heard was an intentionally modeled behavior or is just a bug in the implementation?

 

I agree that is odd. I didn't know the EPs are fully modeled until I read it in the manual. That makes sense for the very smooth dynamics. I didn't hear anything resembling velocity samples. But the distinct tones of certain groupings of about 4 semitones in the Rhodes sounds is strange. I wonder if the model is simplified by modeling groups of notes rather than individual notes.

 

It's too bad they didn't also have a VA synth since they modeled the EPs. FYI, just not to confuse anyone, only the EPs are modeled. The APs are sampled but use modeling for the extra effects like string resonance and noises. All other sounds are sampled.

 

 

 

 

[HammondDave]

8 hours ago, CyberGene said:

 

That is odd, since the Rhodes in the Numa X is physically modeled, i.e. it doesn't use any samples at all. Maybe the transition you heard was an intentionally modeled behavior or is just a bug in the implementation?

 

 

Thank you for your review! It's good to hear the Numa feels lighter than the CP88 since I find the Yamaha NWX and NW-GH actions kind of heavy for my taste, but then I found the Fatar TP/100LR even heavier and unpleasant. I was worried its successor the TP110 in the new Numa X pianos might not have improved upon that but a few people already express the opinion it feels right. My Numa X Piano 88 is already in Sofia (where I live), so I am expecting it any time now, hopefully today or tomorrow and I am super excited

…and if you want it “super light”, you can adjust the key sensitivity to +25!  I have mine set to +15 due to my screwed up hands. 

[HammondDave]

8 hours ago, funkyhammond said:

I had a chance to briefly try out the Numa X Piano 88 for about an hour today. The local L&M had one on the floor and I popped in on my way to see a baseball game. These are just quick first impressions.

 

The action felt quite good. Not too heavy and no bounce. Perfect for me. The CP88 that was right there felt a bit heavier. I'm really impressed with the action considering the price point and that the overall board is quite light for an 88. Good touch-to-sound connection with the APs and EPs. Seemed to have a lot of dynamic range with smooth tonal transition from quiet to loud, including the EPs. It might be worth noting that I don't play classical music so I can't comment on how good the action or anything is for that.

 

The interface is quite straight forward to navigate without having to look in the manual. The only thing I couldn't find was if there were any deeper edits to the pianos. Now that I have looked at the manual, I see that there are some. I had missed the long-press 'zoom' function which goes into some deeper settings. The APs have four adjustments: Tone, String Res, Duplex Res Scale, and Pedal Noise. The EPs also have four adjustments: Hammer (mic position), Offset (Y-axis), Tines (volume), and Pedal Noise. 

 

I bring up the deep edits because I would need to play around with the Rhodes sounds a bit. While the dynamics are very smooth and I was quite happy about that, I did find that the sound across the keyboard was sometimes not that consistent. The samples seemed to be assigned to clusters of 4 semitones and sometimes I could easily hear the transition from one sample to another, especially in the middle few octaves of the keyboard. Sometimes the tines stood out more in one cluster or the tines sounded a bit weird. I compared it to the CP88. The default Rhodes 01 in the CP is very well balanced and consistent up and down the keyboard. It sounds as if the X Piano is replicating a lot of nice details and character of an imperfectly maintained Rhodes. That's not necessarily a bad thing but I'm just not used to it from a digital keyboard. It would be better as an "alternate" sample just like how some boards have imperfect acoustic upright pianos. But all three Rhodes in the X Piano (Mk I, Mk II, Suitcase) have inconsistencies across the keyboard. The other thing that bugged me was that the Mk I sample doesn't bark and the Mk II sample, although it barks, sounds dyno'd. I don't remember the Suitcase sample very well other than it was okay but I wouldn't want it as my default. I would have liked the Mk I sample as my default if it would bark when playing hard. I'm hoping that if I try again and play a bit with the deeper settings for the mic distance and tine volume, I might get some more balanced results out of the Mk II or Suitcase to use as a potential all-around default.

 

The Wurly's seemed decent. I think there were a couple of Pianets but they sounded super soft/mellow. The Clavs were okay, not bad, not great, but there is a version with the mute engaged, which you don't always see. I think I like the Clav sounds in the CP/YC better.

 

No mono synth leads? I couldn't find a way to turn a synth sound into mono for smoother leads and I don't see anything in the manual for doing that. That's disappointing.

 

The pitch bend stick is a bit weird. It's short and has a bit of extra resistance to get it out of center home position. This makes smaller pitch bends (e.g. first 1/4 or 1/2 of range) difficult to do smoothly.

 

That's all for now.

 

 

 

 

thanks for the review, FunkyHammond. I don’t hear the inconsistency in the Rhodes, but I will take a deeper dive today and see if more bark can be achieved. I bet moving the pickup closer will achieve that. We shall see. 
 

i am curious why a mono synth is so desirable. Why not play a polysynth and just hit one key at a time?

[AnotherScott]

4 minutes ago, HammondDave said:

i am curious why a mono synth is so desirable. Why not play a polysynth and just hit one key at a time?

It affects certain synth playing techniques, and portamento.

[funkyhammond]

6 minutes ago, HammondDave said:

thanks for the review, FunkyHammond. I don’t hear the inconsistency in the Rhodes, but I will take a deeper dive today and see if more bark can be achieved. I bet moving the pickup closer will achieve that. We shall see. 

 

Don't go to too much effort. Sometimes it's better not to know and just enjoy playing.

 

6 minutes ago, HammondDave said:

i am curious why a mono synth is so desirable. Why not play a polysynth and just hit one key at a time?

 

There are some distinct aspects to a mono synth. The attack of the note can be setup to not re-trigger when playing legato. Just like how the percussion on the Hammond behaves. Portamento/glide can also be set to only happen when playing legato. And then there are playing tricks that sound similar to finger tapping on a guitar because you can do things like hold one note down, play a different note, then release that note and the note you were holding will sound again. A lot of the guitar-like effects that Jan Hammer used to get on synths was precisely because they were mono synths.

[CyberGene]

Indeed, having a monophonic sound with portamento and a high-vs-low not priority (when you press two keys) can be used for creative effects.

 

For instance, one of my favorite local (Bulgarian) progressive-rock bands from the past have used a Minimoog with a specific playing technique of pressing simultaneously two keys with a slight time difference between them (with low note priority) in one of their famous songs, to imitate ethnic flute/ocarina sound (starts at 0:15):

 

 

BTW, the band name is FSB which is a coincidence with the Russian security Federal Security Service 🤣 The band name comes form Formation Studio Balkanton, because they were the resident band in the state-owned (and only) music studio back then.

 

Besides, playing legato or staccato might produce different sound with monophonic synths depending on whether the envelopes are configure to re-trigger on legato.

[HammondDave]

9 minutes ago, funkyhammond said:

 

Don't go to too much effort. Sometimes it's better not to know and just enjoy playing.

 

 

There are some distinct aspects to a mono synth. The attack of the note can be setup to not re-trigger when playing legato. Just like how the percussion on the Hammond behaves. Portamento/glide can also be set to only happen when playing legato. And then there are playing tricks that sound similar to finger tapping on a guitar because you can do things like hold one note down, play a different note, then release that note and the note you were holding will sound again. A lot of the guitar-like effects that Jan Hammer used to get on synths was precisely because they were mono synths.

of course. Duh!!!  I do that all the time on my Model D. Just never thought about it. 

[funkyhammond]

@HammondDave

 

22 hours ago, funkyhammond said:

I'm also looking at the Gator GKB-76 SLIM in case I decide to get the  X Piano 88. I had been looking at it in case I get a CP/YC88 to see what alternatives there are to the Yamaha soft case. The Yamaha case looks very nice, weighs a bit more, and is much pricier. The Studiologic and Soundwear cases don't have as much padding based on the pics and specs. The Gator is listed as having 20mm whereas the Soundwear only has 12mm, for example. The Gator and Yamaha both have wheels.

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GKB76Slim--gator-gkb-76-slim-keyboard-gig-bag

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/YSCCP88--yamaha-ysccp88-soft-case-for-cp88

 

I just realized I had made a typo. I meant the GK-76 SLIM with wheels not the GKB-76.

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GK76Slim--gator-gk-76-slim-semi-rigid-keyboard-case

[Mighty Motif Max]

5 hours ago, CyberGene said:

...

For instance, one of my favorite local (Bulgarian) progressive-rock bands from the past have used a Minimoog with a specific playing technique of pressing simultaneously two keys with a slight time difference between them (with low note priority) in one of their famous songs, to imitate ethnic flute/ocarina sound (starts at 0:15):

 

 

BTW, the band name is FSB which is a coincidence with the Russian security Federal Security Service 🤣 The band name comes form Formation Studio Balkanton, because they were the resident band in the state-owned (and only) music studio back then...

That's some cool music!

[HammondDave]

4 hours ago, funkyhammond said:

@HammondDave

 

 

I just realized I had made a typo. I meant the GK-76 SLIM with wheels not the GKB-76.

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GK76Slim--gator-gk-76-slim-semi-rigid-keyboard-case

$270 on Amazon. 
 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005NYXWVC/ref=ox_sc_act_image_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

[funkyhammond]

I went back to the store today and spent a couple more hours on the X Piano 88.

 

After playing it some more and comparing to some other boards, I confirmed that the action is a bit on the lighter side for a hammer action. Which is fine with me. I like the faster key return. I'm guessing the wooden-key model has a heavier action for those that want that.

 

I did noticed that the key length/pivot point is a tad short. It's certainly not as bad as the super slim hammer-action DPs on the market, but I tested out some more normal sized hammer-action boards on the floor, like the CP88, the Roland Juno DS-88, the Korg B1, and the big Yamaha Montage 8 beast (ok, that one isn't fair, it was just there), and they all had a bit less of that close pivot feel at the back. The X Piano is still quite playable at the back. I'll never buy those ultra slim DPs for that reason but I don't think the X Piano is a problem for me.

 

I tried out the deep settings for the EPs and, yes, they make a big difference. Adjusting the 'Hammer' setting up to represent a closer mic distance makes the EPs bark more. So I got the Mk I to sound more the way I wanted. It's nice having those adjustments with a modeled EP. I was also able to take the two Pianet models which were very soft and mellow and adjust the Hammer setting close to make them brighter and more dynamic. I really liked them after that. The X Piano also has some interesting hybrid EPs thanks to modeling. I'm not a fan of FM pianos but the last hybrid FM EP in the list actually sounded interesting and not very FM-like, especially after some adjustments.

 

And I confirmed that it's the 'Tines' setting, i.e. the bell/metallic element that has the very discernable tone differences between different ranges of notes. By turning the 'Hammer' setting (the core sound) all the way down and the 'Tines' setting all the way up, you just hear the metallic attack of the tines. Playing chromatically up the keyboard, I can hear some big differences in the metallic tone in some areas when crossing certain note ranges. Some clusters of notes are just a bit different than adjacent ones (what you would expect) and some are very different. The Mk II has the biggest tonal variations but there are some tonal jumps in all of the EP sounds. If you turn 'Tines' all the way down and the core 'Hammer' sound up, the sound is very smooth up and down the keyboard. So if you're going for something like an early Chick Corea Rhodes sound that has very little bell tone, the sound is much more even up and down the keyboard. But if you're going for a strong bell tone, there can be noticeable tonal differences. I don't know how modeled Rhodes are usually done but I wasn't expecting that. In the final analysis, I don't know how noticeable this will be under real world playing scenarios. Anyway, as it so happens, I don't like a lot of bell tone in my Rhodes sounds, so I can turn that down a bit and have a smoother sound across the keyboard. If anyone wants to hear it, I can upload the quick demonstration I recorded of playing chromatically up the keyboard with just the core "Hammer" tone and then just the "Tines" tone on the Mk II model. I'm not sure how useful it really is. 

 

I played with the sticks a bit and noticed there are some nice assignable parameters in the menu. The spring-loaded pitch stick actually has two axis of movement and you can use each axis for a number of things. So you can have a combined pitch/mod stick, for example (an advantage over trying to manipulate both sticks at the same time like on the CP/YC boards). Then there is the simple mod stick that stays in place and that can also be assigned to a number of things. 

 

I tried plugging in a little mono synth into one of the audio inputs. Between the master audio input level and the individual input gains there is a lot of gain available so I don't think it will be a problem getting enough volume from mics or low level instruments. According to the manual, each audio input has a noise gate on it. But what I really liked was that each audio input has its own EQ, delay, and reverb settings! I thought that was brilliant. A lot of these little mono synth boxes have no effects and it's great to have the option to plug them into the board and get delay and reverb, as well as EQ. Obviously that will be great for vocals, too, although I probably won't use that. I'm really impressed with this feature. Having a 4-channel mixer with simple post effects means I wouldn't have to bring an extra little mixer to add a drawbar organ and a mono synth. It's not going to work for you if you need a separate monitor output but I don't usually need that.

 

And a couple of little bugs:

 

- The filter cutoff on the synths has an odd little non-linearity close to the middle that definitely sounds like a bug. One of the values (somewhere around 62 IIRC) sounds several steps more open but then the next value sounds back down to normal and it resumes smoothly after that.

- At one point one of the notes was strangely stuck as if the sustain pedal was stuck down just on that note. Re-striking the note or changing patches didn't help. I had to turn the board on and off. It took about 20 seconds to start up. Hopefully that's a rare event or will be fixed with some firmware update.

 

 

 

 

[CyberGene]

My Numa X Piano 88 arrived, luckily at lunchtime, so I could dedicate about 30-40 minutes to play. To be perfectly frank, I have mixed feelings and I'm rather underwhelmed by it at the moment 😕 Here are my scattered thoughts:

 

The keyboard feels like an improvement of the TP/100LR. I can't say if it's a massive improvement or a slight one though because I sold my SL73 months ago. I think It's slightly less sluggish, has harder bottoming (which I like). But somehow it still feels heavy to play and a bit tiring. The only piano I can compare it against is my Yamaha AvantGrand N1X and that's a very unfair comparison because the Yamaha has a real grand piano action. That being said, the Numa feels like a typical digital piano action: the keys constantly push back against your fingers but they all do that to a certain degree. Something that I don't like though is, my pianissimo touches near the rear side of the keys failed to even press the keys or produce tones. I had to adjust my touch. I don't remember having that problem with the YC73 (returned recently due to a faulty encoder). Ultimately, the keyboard action made me feel kind of OK for the price. Could be better, could be worse.

 

Next, the piano sounds. The biggest disappointment. They sound kind of thin and dull. I tested with all my available headphones (Sennheiser HD650 and HD595 + Beoplay H6 2nd gen) but it's always the same. The quiet velocities sound very synthetic, almost like I'm playing a digital grand, almost like the CP80 or something. Besides, those quiet velocities always had some harshness to them, not that velvety piano tone you hear when playing softly, instead it sounds almost like you got medium velocity samples and turned the volume down. I played with the tone settings in the zoom controls but it didn't make change, actually increasing tone makes for an artificially bright rock-piano sound and turning it down makes for even duller and unrealistic sound. I went through all the possible types of grand pianos but didn't like any of them. I remember how I went through every piano preset in the YC73 and all of them were great and made me anxious about which one I should choose because there was not a single one that was "worse" than the rest. Here I feel I have to choose among equally subpar pianos 😕 There was also something very odd about the default touch response: it seemed like there was some gap between the softest pianissimo and medium velocities. I couldn't make a fine gradation between these two. Haven't tested tweaking the touch response.

 

Electric pianos. I think I like some of them, although there's something exaggeratedly clanky/noisy in them but I think they can be tweaked. I could live with them after all, although I still think the ones in the YC73 were slightly better.

 

Synth sounds: no mono sounds with portamento... Some polysynth brass sounds are good. Turning the cutoff zoom knob is very lame. I expected that I could use it as a creative filter control while playing but it responds in a non-linear and steppy way. I decided to assign aftertouch to filter cut-off and well... couldn't find how to do it! I'm pretty sure that must be possible but for the moment it isn't. Seems like if I enable aftertouch for a part, there's no way to say what aftertouch controls. By default it controls modulation. I think it's OK, much better than SL73 which required that you break your hands pushing the keys down to finally activate aftertouch as a switch. Here it's much better and there is gradation.

 

Other sounds: I'm not familiar with organs but some of them sound good and usable, others not so much.

 

Interface: it's both intuitive and also awkward. There was one thing that drove me mad though! So, I wanted to test all the sounds. I opened an init program with a piano in part 1, switched all the effects off and then started changing the sound for that part: you press a sound category (e.g. piano) and are presented with a list of piano sounds which you can scroll through by turning the main knob. However that list will auto-close after a while and will return to the home screen with the parts. On that screen if you turn the knob you will change the preset. And so, I'm on a part, I'm changing the sounds for that part, I play a little to hear them, then go to turn the knob to change to the next sound, however in that exact moment it auto-closes and I'm on the home screen but I'm already turning the knob and the entire preset changes... This is ridiculous, I think they should reconsider that auto-close behavior because it has the potential to make you lose you entire program settings for all parts.

 

Furthermore, I found myself intuitively expecting to have to select something through pushing on the knob itself which works for some settings but not for others, so I push and it does nothing and I have to press on the OK button instead. Or there are lists where I can move through pressing the knob up/down but then I go to some other list where that doesn't work and I have to turn it instead... I think they may improve it although it's very intuitive.

 

Finally, this is a personal note, but I am color-blind. I'm not pretty bad at that, I have driver license after they examined in details my color blindness and they told me I am within the allowed degree of color blindness. Yet, I had some slight difficulties with the color-coded system of the Numa.

 

The build quality is great! The form factor and the weight are also great for such a low price.

 

Anyway, to be honest, I'm thinking of packing it and sending it back 😕 But I will give it another chance later.

[Dockeys]

37 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

My Numa X Piano 88 arrived, luckily at lunchtime, so I could dedicate about 30-40 minutes to play. To be perfectly frank, I have mixed feelings and I'm rather underwhelmed by it at the moment 😕 Here are my scattered thoughts:

 

The keyboard feels like an improvement of the TP/100LR. I can't say if it's a massive improvement or a slight one though because I sold my SL73 months ago. I think It's slightly less sluggish, has harder bottoming (which I like). But somehow it still feels heavy to play and a bit tiring. The only piano I can compare it against is my Yamaha AvantGrand N1X and that's a very unfair comparison because the Yamaha has a real grand piano action. That being said, the Numa feels like a typical digital piano action: the keys constantly push back against your fingers but they all do that to a certain degree. Something that I don't like though is, my pianissimo touches near the rear side of the keys failed to even press the keys or produce tones. I had to adjust my touch. I don't remember having that problem with the YC73 (returned recently due to a faulty encoder). Ultimately, the keyboard action made me feel kind of OK for the price. Could be better, could be worse.

 

Next, the piano sounds. The biggest disappointment. They sound kind of thin and dull. I tested with all my available headphones (Sennheiser HD650 and HD595 + Beoplay H6 2nd gen) but it's always the same. The quiet velocities sound very synthetic, almost like I'm playing a digital grand, almost like the CP80 or something. Besides, those quiet velocities always had some harshness to them, not that velvety piano tone you hear when playing softly, instead it sounds almost like you got medium velocity samples and turned the volume down. I played with the tone settings in the zoom controls but it didn't make change, actually increasing tone makes for an artificially bright rock-piano sound and turning it down makes for even duller and unrealistic sound. I went through all the possible types of grand pianos but didn't like any of them. I remember how I went through every piano preset in the YC73 and all of them were great and made me anxious about which one I should choose because there was not a single one that was "worse" than the rest. Here I feel I have to choose among equally subpar pianos 😕 There was also something very odd about the default touch response: it seemed like there was some gap between the softest pianissimo and medium velocities. I couldn't make a fine gradation between these two. Haven't tested tweaking the touch response.

 

Electric pianos. I think I like some of them, although there's something exaggeratedly clanky/noisy in them but I think they can be tweaked. I could live with them after all, although I still think the ones in the YC73 were slightly better.

 

Synth sounds: no mono sounds with portamento... Some polysynth brass sounds are good. Turning the cutoff zoom knob is very lame. I expected that I could use it as a creative filter control while playing but it responds in a non-linear and steppy way. I decided to assign aftertouch to filter cut-off and well... couldn't find how to do it! I'm pretty sure that must be possible but for the moment it isn't. Seems like if I enable aftertouch for a part, there's no way to say what aftertouch controls. By default it controls modulation. I think it's OK, much better than SL73 which required that you break your hands pushing the keys down to finally activate aftertouch as a switch. Here it's much better and there is gradation.

 

Other sounds: I'm not familiar with organs but some of them sound good and usable, others not so much.

 

Interface: it's both intuitive and also awkward. There was one thing that drove me mad though! So, I wanted to test all the sounds. I opened an init program with a piano in part 1, switched all the effects off and then started changing the sound for that part: you press a sound category (e.g. piano) and are presented with a list of piano sounds which you can scroll through by turning the main knob. However that list will auto-close after a while and will return to the home screen with the parts. On that screen if you turn the knob you will change the preset. And so, I'm on a part, I'm changing the sounds for that part, I play a little to hear them, then go to turn the knob to change to the next sound, however in that exact moment it auto-closes and I'm on the home screen but I'm already turning the knob and the entire preset changes... This is ridiculous, I think they should reconsider that auto-close behavior because it has the potential to make you lose you entire program settings for all parts.

 

Furthermore, I found myself intuitively expecting to have to select something through pushing on the knob itself which works for some settings but not for others, so I push and it does nothing and I have to press on the OK button instead. Or there are lists where I can move through pressing the knob up/down but then I go to some other list where that doesn't work and I have to turn it instead... I think they may improve it although it's very intuitive.

 

Finally, this is a personal note, but I am color-blind. I'm not pretty bad at that, I have driver license after they examined in details my color blindness and they told me I am within the allowed degree of color blindness. Yet, I had some slight difficulties with the color-coded system of the Numa.

 

The build quality is great! The form factor and the weight are also great for such a low price.

 

Anyway, to be honest, I'm thinking of packing it and sending it back 😕 But I will give it another chance later.

Sorry to hear it’s not living up to your hopes. I had similar issues with the action, I felt I had to compromise my playing, especially pianissimo, rather than the action allowing me to play what I want. Also the piano sounds didn’t do it for me. I gave it a good two weeks of playing regularly and eventually decided it wasn’t for me. Try it out for a week or so and give it a chance. The action grew on me slightly in the second week but still not enough when I played it against the CP73. Best of luck with it anyway. 

[HammondDave]

Sorry that it does not meet your expectations.  I think there is a difference in the perception of the action from organ players and piano players. My only experience with digital pianos comes from trying them at NAMM and crappy music stores. To me, this keyboard is refreshing from the previous ones I tried from Casio, Yamaha, and Nord. But again, I am primarily a B3 player. 
 

Also, don’t forget to try the “Keyboard sensitivity” control (in the system editing section). That may help. 
 

Regarding your editing issues, if you just want to hear the stock sounds, just hit the category button and you can scroll through them. If you select a preset and edit the sound within the preset, the screen will stay in the editor as long as you want. I believe that this board is set up with “permanent” sounds that you must edit within the preset. This keeps us from screwing up the original presets and having to do a factory reset to return to that sound… I guess. 
 

I like the AC and EP sounds. Again, for a Hammond player these are perfectly fine for me. If you go edit the Rhodes sounds and just turn the hammer and tine controls up, you may get what you want. Its funny that my issue was with the Wurlie sounds, but about 30 seconds of editing fixed those. 
 

So sorry to read about your issues with perceiving color. I can see how this can be an unfortunate issue with editing this digital piano (as color is central to its user interface). For that reason alone this keyboard may not be for you. 
 

I will be interested to see what James from Pianosforever thinks of this. But the important viewpoint is from you!  To me, the sounds, keyboard action, weight, size, editing interface, and value are my touchstones. Balancing all that against the competition, for my use, the answer is clear. 
 

 

[funkyhammond]

6 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Next, the piano sounds. The biggest disappointment. They sound kind of thin and dull.

 

I didn't mention this in my review, but when I A/B'd it against the CP88 and the Juno DS-88, I noticed that the AP and EP sounds in the Yamaha and Roland sounded a bit fuller/warmer and maybe more hi-fidelity. I was using my own Sennheiser headphones to compare everything.

 

You mentioned the Tone setting but don't forget to also try out the Equalizer FX. For me, this board would be for live playing so I am more interested in the expressiveness of the instrument and how well the sounds will sit in a live band mix. If I were looking for something to use primarily at home/for recording, I would have the same hesitations about the sound quality.

 

6 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Electric pianos. I think I like some of them, although there's something exaggeratedly clanky/noisy in them but I think they can be tweaked. I could live with them after all, although I still think the ones in the YC73 were slightly better.

 

Yes, I think what you are describing as clanky/noisy is what I described as unevenness of the bell/metallic 'Tines' element. Long-press the zone select to go into "zoom" for that instrument and try turning down 'Tines'. Also, stay way from Mk II. It's the worst one for that IMO.

 

6 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Turning the cutoff zoom knob is very lame. I expected that I could use it as a creative filter control while playing but it responds in a non-linear and steppy way.

 

I thought the filter cutoff with the knob was pretty smooth except for the one bug in the middle that I noticed (in my previous post). But I only tried it with one pad sound. If I recall, though, the encoder knob requires a fair bit of turning to go from minimum to maximum so maybe it's not great for playing large sweeps of the filter.

 

I didn't get a chance to try to assign things to the mod stick or the aftertouch. I'll try to go back to the store to try those things.

 

I forgot to mention in my review that the user's manual is beyond useless. It goes over all the features but doesn't go into detail or give examples. What exactly is "modulation"? Is it just a fixed LFO on the pitch? What can you do with the aftertouch? How? Again, nothing in the manual. 

 

6 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Other sounds: I'm not familiar with organs but some of them sound good and usable, others not so much.

 

They are basic ROMpler sampled organs. Pretty limited, maybe okay for some transistor organ stuff, but definitely not good for proper B3 playing.

 

6 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Interface: it's both intuitive and also awkward. 

 

I agree with that. Many things are intuitive but some aren't. And for the things that aren't, you have to sit and figure it out because the manual isn't much help. At least the menu system isn't deep, so it's not too difficult to figure things out and remember them.

 

 

 

[drawback]

@funkyhammond and @CyberGene... I hope you realize how helpful your balanced, hands-on reviews and interactions are. Thanks.

 

Edit! And HammondDave & Dockeys 

[HammondDave]

Some detailed info about the TP110 vs the TP400 from “PianoMan Chuck”…. All good points. 
 

 

[funkyhammond]

He is really enthusiastic about the fast return and no bounce on the standard 88.

 

Boy, does he ever sound torn between the wooden GT and the standard 88.

 

I only just discovered PianoMan Chuck a few weeks ago. I like him, he's funny. Some choice quotes about the wooden GT action:

 

    "It's going to be sooo relaxing for you...at 48 and 1/2 pounds."

    "When you have a piano that is that good, it practically plays itself." 

 

    "...a wonderful experience on stage, so wonderful that you feel relaxed, and calm, and just basically laid back."

 

If my keyboard played itself, I would be totally calm and relaxed all the time, too. He makes it sound like sitting in a hot tub.

 

 

 

 

 

[CyberGene]

From one of his previous videos I got that he sells Studiologic pianos. So, his praise should be taken with a pinch of salt 😉

 

When playing the Numa yesterday, I noticed that switching between presets would often result in clicks and noises for 1-2 seconds. Have you noticed it? I think it is due to the effects but can’t be sure.

 

Another thing that bothered me a little was the rotating knob would rarely switch to the next preset and then switch back, like not being 100% mechanically reliable. But that was really only very rare. 

[Morrissey]

5 hours ago, CyberGene said:

From one of his previous videos I got that he sells Studiologic pianos

 

Yes, he is an independent dealer of several popular keyboard brands.  He also frequents this forum from time to time.

[HammondDave]

I like Chuck as well. He seems very genuine. Maybe we hung out together in the late 60’s and early 70’s… I don’t know. 
 

I do appreciate his honesty regarding his choice between the TP110 and TP400. I went through the same thing. I don’t plan on taking this keyboard to gigs, but I may later. My back surgeon says no to anything over 30 lbs. This would be way over the limit. 
 

So my decision is similar to Chuck’s.  Try the TP110 and if I don’t like it, return it and buy the TP400.
 

Well, I tried it and I love it. Again, the key to this action is to use the “Keyboard Sensitivity” control to adjust the keyboard to your taste. I have played this instrument every day for a week with no hand pain.  For me, that is the real deciding factor. 
 

(If its true that the TP400 “plays itself”, well then all bets are off!”)

[CyberGene]

I played again with the Numa X Piano 88 today. As already suggested, increasing the keyboard sensitivity in the global settings helps a bit with the overly dull pianissimos. I put it around +15% and it was better. Also, using slightly brighter headphones (the HD595 compared to the veiled HD650) also makes for slightly better sound. But ultimately all the pianos are somehow thin and hollow and the bass notes lack the proper pianissimo timbre, they all sound as though medium velocity timbres are used with lowered volume. Furthermore, I think I found some odd bugs with their modeled resonances. It's most apparent on the Blu Piano but is also present on the default German Grand. If you use the default preset after turning it on, just press (loudly) and hold some of the highest keys and listen carefully through headphones. There's some flutter in the sustain of the sound which disappears if I turn down the resonance and duplex knobs in the Zoom settings. Then switch to the Blu Piano, turn off any effects and test again: it sounds almost like the vibrations of an electric fan.

 

Modeled electric piano are good, I like them and I think I may keep the board only for them since I mostly use Rhodes sounds with the band and not so much acoustic pianos. I'm hesitating whether I should keep the board or not but I see there's a CP88 available at Thomann (well, twice the price but also a pretty solid and proven board) and I think I will get it... I will sleep over the decision for a few more days.