New Studiologic Numa X Piano

[Eli K.]

Anybody know where i can try out and play the Numa X Piano in New York or New Jersey area? (I checked with b&h and they don't have it on display).

[Dave Bryce]

None of the chains (Sam Ash/GC) have it?

 

If you can’t find one easily, perhaps try calling the US distributor, American Music & Sound.  They should be able to connect you with one….

 

dB

[napilopez]

27 minutes ago, Eli K. said:

Hey, I didn't know this forum exists and I'm very glad I found it. I'm considering buying the the Numa X Piano 73. On paper it seems like a great option for me.

Main thing I'm concerned about is the feel of the action. Does the TP 110 key action feel the same weight across the board? meaning not "graded"? If so, does playing the Numa X Piano feel close to an acoustic piano? if the weight feel of the keys is the same across the board.? I understand that the "After Touch" feature might have to do with the emulation on an acoustic piano? Reading your comments is very helpful. Thanks everyone!

The Fatar TP110 is not graded. Unfortunately there are only a few impressions of that keyboard action as it is anew and the Numa X Piano has only just started arriving in people's homes. That said, I don't know that I would consider an action being graded or not to be a deal breaker -- many of the pianos that are graded aren't really graded all that accurately.

So far the TP110 seems to be an improvement over the TP100 in a bazillion keyboards, but it seems to still be a fairly heavy action with a pretty short pivot point. If action is a priority, you should probably consider the GT version with the TP400W. It may not be as small, but the thin sides means it's still a lot smaller than some other keyboards out there (looking at you Roland with the unecessary large left side).

Aftertouch doesn't have much to do with the feel or realism for piano. It's intended instead to trigger effects on specific notes. For example, if controlling non-piano instruments, you could apply vibrato or another effect to only the top note of a chord. That's in constrast to using the pitch bend and mod wheels, which by default affect all keys equally. 

Good luck!

[AnotherScott]

33 minutes ago, Eli K. said:

Hey, I didn't know this forum exists and I'm very glad I found it. I'm considering buying the the Numa X Piano 73. On paper it seems like a great option for me.

Main thing I'm concerned about is the feel of the action. Does the TP 110 key action feel the same weight across the board? meaning not "graded"? If so, does playing the Numa X Piano feel close to an acoustic piano? if the weight feel of the keys is the same across the board.? I understand that the "After Touch" feature might have to do with the emulation on an acoustic piano? Reading your comments is very helpful. Thanks everyone!

Disclaimer: I haven't played one.

 

AFAIK, the TP110 is not graded. 

 

While bring graded would make an action more like an acoustic piano compared to the same action not graded; it's not so relevant when comparing different actions, because there are so many ways an action can feel better or worse, or more authentic or less, and I'd say gradedness is not among the most important of them.

 

Aftertouch has to do with being able to change some aspect of the sound of a note by pressing harder AFTER you have played it. Pianos don't work that way. So this is primarily useful when playing non-piano sounds.

[Bobby Simons]

Just now, David Bryce said:

None of the chains (Sam Ash/GC) have it?

 

If you can’t find one call the US distributor, American Music & Sound.  They should be able to connect you with one….

 

dB

LOL, you would think so. Their northeast rep could not find me a Studiologic SL88 Grand back when I was interested. I still was in New York at the time, on Long Island, less than an hour from NYC. Nothing. Nada. Nearest possibility was Baltimore, which coincidently, I'm now about an hour from.

[HammondDave]

18 hours ago, b3plyr said:

 

Ok Dave, we're waiting to hear what you think of the EP updates. Thanks for all you have posted to date - a real help in deciding whether to try this board.

 

Downloaded it tonight. Updating the Numa was a breeze. Yes, everything the video says is true.  Love the new touch response for the EP's.  The Rhodes and Wurlies were great already, this makes them even better. Much more expressive. I also tried the repeated hammer action and was able to play the opening to Angry Young Man on it. I doubt I would need a faster repeated note than that. Also, a nice toggle to turn off that annoying noise gate.  Thanks for the quick update, Studiologic.  

[funkyhammond]

16 hours ago, Eli K. said:

Hey, I didn't know this forum exists and I'm very glad I found it. I'm considering buying the the Numa X Piano 73. On paper it seems like a great option for me.

Main thing I'm concerned about is the feel of the action. Does the TP 110 key action feel the same weight across the board? meaning not "graded"? If so, does playing the Numa X Piano feel close to an acoustic piano? if the weight feel of the keys is the same across the board.? I understand that the "After Touch" feature might have to do with the emulation on an acoustic piano? Reading your comments is very helpful. Thanks everyone!

 

It's probably rare to find 73 note keyboards with a graded action since they are usually more meant for the form factor of electric pianos. But even the 88 note one that I was trying in the store didn't feel graded. They are supposed to be the same action but the 73 just has fewer keys. Looking at their website and specs, it looks like the 'GT' version with the wooden keys is the only one with a graded hammer action. But that one is heavier and more expensive than the regular 88 key version. The weight of the wooden keys and the graded action will probably make it feel the most like an acoustic piano. It's probably the cheapest wooden graded hammer action stage piano out there but maybe not what you're looking for.

 

When it comes to action, everyone is different. There are a couple people that posted their reviews in this thread (of the regular action not the GT wooden action) and didn't fully like the action for playing acoustic piano and returned the units. Others seemed fine with the action but maybe are not as picky about acoustic piano. The people that didn't like the action seemed to prefer the Yamaha CP88 as an equivalent type of stage keyboard with better action for acoustic piano. But the CP is bigger, heavier, more expensive and doesn't have some of the other features (like audio mixer) that the X Piano has. (FYI, the Yamaha CP73 is a very different action which is not as piano-like as the CP88 in case you are strictly looking at 73-note keyboards.) 

 

Another important part of the equation is the perceived connection to the sound, i.e. how the sound responds to the touch and makes you feel connected to the sound, which can be more about the velocity curve and the way the internal sound maps to that. So it's not always just about the physical action. For example, the inexpensive and popular Kawai ES110 feels a bit plasticky when you first play it but it has a really good dynamic response and connection to the sound. If I wanted a cheap digital piano with no other features, that would be the one for me just because of the connection to the sound. Anyway, if you can't try out the Numa X Piano in a store, make sure there is a good return policy from where you purchase it. A lot of times you just have to try it out for yourself and see.

 

And as Scott already mentioned, aftertouch has nothing to do with pianos. It's more of a feature for synths/string to add modulation (vibrato) once you are already holding down notes (you push harder into the key to trigger modulation). It's just another way of triggering modulation, just like a modulation wheel/stick or expression pedal.

[RandyFF]

My goodness, what a lot of keyboard for the price!

 

I’ve long realized I don’t need/want a workstation that pulls me too far into programming, and in 2021 I bought the Kawai ES920, and I still have the ES110.  (Note on action: I actually prefer the lighter super expressive action of the ES110 over that of the ES920).

 

The main things that attracted me to the ES920 was:

- Great piano action weighing only 37.5 pounds (17 kilos), the plastic body build seems very sturdy

- Very user friendly, easy to program

- Really decent onboard speakers- this is a must have for jams/parties.  These are very decent and clear, though lacking in bass, often augment it with a full range speaker 

- Good to excellent AP sounds, good EPS, most sounds usable

- At $1,599, it had close to everything I thought I wanted, much cheaper than other excellent action DPs

 

However, even with wanting a simple board, I haven’t gotten past the fact that it only plays two sounds at once, and the second sound doesn’t have the full range of editing.  AND, it only has 38 onboard sounds.  Since buying it I know that my next board needs: At least 4 sounds, pitch and mod wheels/sticks, hopefully hundreds of usable sounds, USB audio interface, etc.   So in other words, a Stage Piano and not just a Piano Board.

 

I’ve often thought my ideal board would be a mashup of the ES920 with the MP7SE.  That would give me: 4 sounds at once and an interface that has many front panel controls for controlling those sounds easily.  It also jumps to having 250 onboard sounds.  However, it weighs 48 pounds, so it’s an instant non-starter, and no speakers. Altogether, the MP7SE is probably the closest stage piano to the new Numa X GT that I know of, very similar, and at $2,200 is close in price, capabilities and weight as well

 

And now comes the Numa X and Numa X GT.  Things I covet on those boards:

- Super fast/intuitive program editing (the Sweetwater demo of the GT demonstrated this)

- 4 zones/tones

- X models are super lightweight

- 2 mod/pitch sticks

- Over 200 tones with more to come

- 4 channel mixer and microphone input

- USB audio capability

- Outstanding EPs- from what I’ve heard from the demos they’re much better than the ES920’s, and they’re easily tweakable

 

 

I could conceivably get by without the onboard speakers, so the real question is would I really like the TP110 action-?  And if not, would I be willing to go past my 40 lb limit and pick up the GT model?

 

I never even gave the other stage pianos with extended features, like the Roland RD2000 any consideration because of the price, lumbering size and weight.  But the GT at this price point and with these features, it sure looks like a contender.  

 

I don’t know how Kawai did it, but for many of us who greatly prefer a lighter touch, the Kawai ES110 is simply outstanding.  Very dynamic and expressive, and the board weighs 26 pounds! (11.7 kilos).  I wish other companies would buy it and use it for their keybed, like Nord uses a Kawai action.

 

From what I’ve heard so far I bet most people would prefer the ES110 action over the TP110.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mills Dude]

21 hours ago, Eli K. said:

Anybody know where i can try out and play the Numa X Piano in New York or New Jersey area? (I checked with b&h and they don't have it on display).

I've touted them a number of times on this board, but I would call Alto Music in Middletown, NY.  If you're in NYC or LI area it's a bit of a hike, but they really go the extra mile to get a sale.  It wouldn't hurt to call them as they might actually have one in stock or even better on the floor.  If not they can certainly get one.  

 

There was a thread on here a few years back where someone coordinated with Alto to try a bunch of different keyboards.  It took a little bit of time for Alto to get all the boards in and if I remember correctly, Alto did want some sort of deposit.  But the upshot of that thread was very favorable and he ended up buying one of the boards.  

 

I haven't shopped there in a while, but they've been sort of a throwback to the days when a music retailer had showroom inventory.  Not like the GC/Sam Ash of today that mostly have junk out.  Doesn't hurt to give 'em a call and see if they can help you out.

[funkyhammond]

48 minutes ago, RandyFF said:

And now comes the Numa X and Numa X GT.  Things I covet on those boards:

...

- Outstanding EPs- from what I’ve heard from the demos they’re much better than the ES920’s, and they’re easily tweakable

 

Once I actually played the board, my thoughts were that the EPs are good but not among the best out there. The clavs are not very good, just passable (and they are sampled, not modeled like the rest of the EPs). I think the EPs in the CP/YC are a bit better, although different, so it might depend on what qualities you are looking for. Because the Rhodes/Wurly/Pianet in the X Piano are modeled, they have very smooth velocity transitions, which is a bonus. But the Rhodes has a weird almost sample-like quality in the metallic/tines attack tone that doesn't feel balanced across the keyboard. The tines just seem to jump out in certain note ranges. That is surprising for a modeled sound. To be fair, I don't know if it would be that noticeable in most playing situations. But if I were recording, I would probably notice it. 

 

48 minutes ago, RandyFF said:

I could conceivably get by without the onboard speakers, so the real question is would I really like the TP110 action-?  And if not, would I be willing to go past my 40 lb limit and pick up the GT model?

 

I don’t know how Kawai did it, but for many of us who greatly prefer a lighter touch, the Kawai ES110 is simply outstanding.  Very dynamic and expressive, and the board weighs 26 pounds! (11.7 kilos).  I wish other companies would buy it and use it for their keybed, like Nord uses a Kawai action.

 

Yes, I almost bought the ES110 on the spot as soon as I tried it out for a bit. But I'm not primarily an acoustic piano player and the EPs in it are garbage (not even as good as the 5xx/9xx models). I might still eventually buy it for a digital AP at home. 

 

Personally, I found the touch-to-sound/ear connection of the Numa X Piano 88 (not the GT) to be average. Certainly not in the league of the ES110. And I think I would prefer the CP/YC73 for a lighter hammer action, although I was one of the people that came across the retriggering issue of repeatedly hitting black keys. Not a deal breaker for most people. I like that the X Piano is already coming out with updates. It's still on my list. I'm weighing my options while I'm getting back into playing with people and seeing what I will need.

[HammondDave]

You just have to try it for yourself. These new EP upgrades make a world of difference.  And they were pretty good to start with. You just need patience to tweak the sounds to your taste.
 

IMHO, the TP110 is a triumph. Plus new sounds are already coming out on the Numa Manager. Hard to beat that for the price (and weight). And no, most of this board is metal, not plastic. How they got this thing at 23-32lbs is amazing. 

[Still VanDerGraaf]

Glad to see the buzz around these boards continue. I think it's justified.

 

I took mine out to a few gigs. I was brave/silly and didn't even read the manual before doing so.

The four zone control is so easy to work with. USB control of one of those zones works perfectly. The whole user interface works very well, it's logical and intuitive.

 

One big bonus for me is the ability to control sounds from my iPad and quickly silence the Numa's own outs using quick presses of the other zone buttons. This also works well to layer great synth sounds beyond the Numa's capability (say the OB-xD OBX model) with the onboard piano sounds. Balancing them is easy too with the zone konbs also acting as level controls. The press/turn functionality is so simple and so effective.

 

I haven't really really begun to get into the proper editing of the sounds other than some quick on-the-fly adjustments. I can tell that once I make and save edits, the X is going to ideally suited to my rig. But even as a "plug and play"-type board it's excellent.

 

Further thoughts on the keybed. For context, I was always primarily a synth player and my piano skills came later on. Recently I have done a few recordings at a local studio and have extensively played/recorded on their Yamaha C3. I feel that my understanding of the piano as an instrument has grown accordingly.

 

The TP110 does give me some of that acoustic piano feel. It encourages certain techniques that I associate with piano playing (fast octaves ascending/ decending in one/both hands for example, the kind of stuff that feels weird on a synth action). The 110 gets me close enough to that sort of feeling to be happy with it. It's fairly quick and has a well-judged balance to it.

 

Guys, unbelievably, it's another unhappy ending.

You may or may not recall that my first X73 went back right away for a keybed issue (very slight clicking two keys).

 

This latest one has now developed a stuck key (E3). It stays down and doesn't return. I have treated the board with kid gloves and I wouldn't say I am a hard hitter. 

So again, this one is going to have to go back. They have no more in stock, so I am going to be forced to take the Oasys back out to gig until they do.

 

I think they must have had a bad batch delivered. 

 

No-one else is reporting keybed issues though, so I think I have just been very unlucky.

 

I'm not put off. I shall patiently await the next one. Third time lucky?

[AnotherScott]

4 hours ago, Still VanDerGraaf said:

One big bonus for me is the ability to control sounds from my iPad and quickly silence the Numa's own outs using quick presses of the other zone buttons. This also works well to layer great synth sounds beyond the Numa's capability (say the OB-xD OBX model) with the onboard piano sounds. Balancing them is easy too with the zone konbs also acting as level controls.

 

I really like this move to more easily integrate external sounds so that, once you connect the external device, the board can seamlessly integrate the sounds, such that it practically feels like the external sounds are just additional selectable internal sounds. I can't tell from the descriptions here whether the Numa X does it quite as well as some others, but it sounds close, at least. The MODX/Montage and Fantom-0/Fantom are really good at this... in fact, implementing it in a way I had suggested to some reps of a couple of other companies many years ago. Those companies didn't do it, but Yamaha and Roland did!

[HammondDave]

23 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

I really like this move to more easily integrate external sounds so that, once you connect the external device, the board can seamlessly integrate the sounds, such that it practically feels like the external sounds are just additional selectable internal sounds. I can't tell from the descriptions here whether the Numa X does it quite as well as some others, but it sounds close, at least. The MODX/Montage and Fantom-0/Fantom are really good at this... in fact, implementing it in a way I had suggested to some reps of a couple of other companies many years ago. Those companies didn't do it, but Yamaha and Roland did!

 

This is one fo my favorite features of the X.  I can integrate Model D, VB3m, and Korg Module through my iPad from the X. Pretty clever and intuitive.  The new warm tube distortion (in the firmware update) adds so much to their organ sounds. I may have to try this puppy at a gig...

[funkyhammond]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

The MODX/Montage and Fantom-0/Fantom are really good at this... in fact, implementing it in a way I had suggested to some reps of a couple of other companies many years ago.

 

What way is that, exactly? I don't have a Montage or Fantom so I'm curious.

[AnotherScott]

 

4 hours ago, funkyhammond said:

6 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

The MODX/Montage and Fantom-0/Fantom are really good at this... in fact, implementing it in a way I had suggested to some reps of a couple of other companies many years ago. Those companies didn't do it, but Yamaha and Roland did!

 

What way is that, exactly? I don't have a Montage or Fantom so I'm curious.

 

(I will be using the word "program" to refer to a single complete sound... Korg and Kurzweil typically call these things Programs, other boards may call them other things, like Voices, Tones, Patches, or Parts).

 

Basically: Allow the user to create user programs that consist of essentially nothing but a name, a category assignment, and a MIDI Program Change to be sent over a particular channel.

 

So let's say you created a "Jump" patch in your OB-xD app. You'd create a program in your keyboard that consisted of a name (e.g. "Jump OB-xD"), the Program Change that needed to be sent to your iPad which would recall that sound, the Channel that Program Change needs to be sent over, and the category (e.g. "Synth"). Then when you call up your Synth category on your keyboard, you would see all the board's available internal Synth programs as usual (factory or user), but you would also see your externally available ones, selectable just as easily as the internal ones. So then you could select (and mix-and-match) your internal and external sounds with equal ease, with no apparent distinction between them. This is in contrast to the typical approach, where either you have to enter all that same MIDI information every single time you want to use a given external sound, or you have to make a copy of some existing combination that already has the external sound(s) you want to use, or go through some more complicated procedure to locate and copy something out of one combination (combi/multi/setup/performance/etc.) into another. Those are all methods that are relatively clumsy compared to simply choosing an external user sound exactly the way you'd choose an internal one, as you can on a MODX (saving a named Part that contains nothing but an external Zone) or a Fantom (similar).

[funkyhammond]

7 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

 

(I will be using the word "program" to refer to a single complete sound... Korg and Kurzweil typically call these things Programs, other boards may call them other things, like Voices, Tones, Patches, or Parts).

 

Basically: Allow the user to create user programs that consist of essentially nothing but a name, a category assignment, and a MIDI Program Change to be sent over a particular channel.

 

So let's say you created a "Jump" patch in your OB-xD app. You'd create a program in your keyboard that consisted of a name (e.g. "Jump OB-xD"), the Program Change that needed to be sent to your iPad which would recall that sound, the Channel that Program Change needs to be sent over, and the category (e.g. "Synth"). Then when you call up your Synth category on your keyboard, you would see all the board's available internal Synth programs as usual (factory or user), but you would also see your externally available ones, selectable just as easily as the internal ones. So then you could select (and mix-and-match) your internal and external sounds with equal ease, with no apparent distinction between them. This is in contrast to the typical approach, where either you have to enter all that same MIDI information every single time you want to use a given external sound, or you have to make a copy of some existing combination that already has the external sound(s) you want to use, or go through some more complicated procedure to locate and copy something out of one combination (combi/multi/setup/performance/etc.) into another. Those are all methods that are relatively clumsy compared to simply choosing an external user sound exactly the way you'd choose an internal one, as you can on a MODX (saving a named Part that contains nothing but an external Zone) or a Fantom (similar).

 

That's cool. It's like you're treating the master board almost like a MIDI sequencer but instead of having a named MIDI track that is sending MIDI/program changes, you can just have a named external MIDI patch that kind of does the same thing.

[AUSSIEKEYS]

21 hours ago, Still VanDerGraaf said:

 

 

I'm not put off. I shall patiently await the next one. Third time lucky?

 

Glad you are sticking with it.

 

I look forward to hearing how it pans out for you. Great to see as a gigging board it was working for you. Thanks for the interesting updates.

 

Fingers crossed for you.

[RandyFF]

So- the Dexibell VIVO S3 Pro 73-key.  How does this board compare?  At $2,299 in the states it’s a bit pricier than even the 88 note Numa Piano X GT, but still- how do these compare?

 

- USB audio to take advantage of the 4 MIDI zones?

- weight: the Vivo weighs 26 pounds vs 47 for the Numa

- keybed feel

- has 116 sounds vs over 200 for the Numa

- piano sounds?  Other sounds?

- can import sound fonts?  Doesn’t say how much sample memory it has for the Vivo on the SW site

 

[AnotherScott]

Vivo S3 action is closer to the non-GT version of the Numa.

 

S3 has 1.5 GB of sample memory, all completely replaceable, with any combination of standard Dexibell sounds, optional freely downloadable Dexibell sounds, and soundfonts.

[Morrissey]

9 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Vivo S3 action is closer to the non-GT version of the Numa.

 

Yes, TP100

[HammondDave]

8 hours ago, Morrissey said:

 

Yes, TP100

 

I think the TP110 has made the TP100 obsolete. You see it on the NumaPiano X  exclusively because of StudioLogic's relationship with Fatar. It will be interesting to see the other manufacturers use in their future models.  

[zephonic]

I dug playing it yesterday. The GT feels better, but the regular one doesn’t suck either. Glad to see some alternatives to the usual Korg/Roland/Yamaha fare.

[davinwv]

On 6/4/2022 at 1:36 PM, zephonic said:

I dug playing it yesterday. The GT feels better, but the regular one doesn’t suck either. Glad to see some alternatives to the usual Korg/Roland/Yamaha fare.

I hope that a new SL88 Grand with the new action from the GT is coming at some point.

[Eli K.]

Can we please talk about recommended amp/speakers/pa for the Numa X Piano..? I'm assuming there's other threads talking about amps for digital pianos that I haven't seen but if anyone can please suggest, or  recommend a specific great looking and great quality small-medium portable amp model under ~$500 that would be awesome!  I understand not all portable solutions actually sound good. Protips would be real great! Thanks!

[HammondDave]

32 minutes ago, Eli K. said:

Can we please talk about recommended amp/speakers/pa for the Numa X Piano..? I'm assuming there's other threads talking about amps for digital pianos that I haven't seen but if anyone can please suggest, or  recommend a specific great looking and great quality small-medium portable amp model under ~$500 that would be awesome!  I understand not all portable solutions actually sound good. Protips would be real great! Thanks!

For live or home studio?

[Eli K.]

5 hours ago, HammondDave said:

For live or home studio?

 For live. 

[Al Coda]

4 hours ago, Eli K. said:

 For live. 

 

2  Alto TS 310

 

☺️

 

A.C.

[Eli K.]

40 minutes ago, Al Coda said:

 

2  Alto TS 310

 

☺️

 

A.C.

That one looks great! Thank You! Any other recommendation that is smaller in size? 

[HammondDave]

1 hour ago, Eli K. said:

That one looks great! Thank You! Any other recommendation that is smaller in size? 

I have these for my rehearsal monitors. Best bang for the buck. But they don’t have the powerful low end that my EV 12’s have (which is necessary for Hammond sounds)

 

Also, I A/B’ed the Altos with my JBL 8” studio monitors in my studio, and there was no comparison. The JBL’s had a better low end and smoother frequency range than the Altos, and were much quieter. But the JBL’s are not powerful enough for live applications with a med loud rock band.