New Studiologic Numa X Piano

[DeltaJockey]

In Oz, we have a cultural observation called, "The Tall Poppy Syndrome". It's about egalitarian principles, a person or institution that is overly dominant or way above anyone else is looked upon with disdain, and in contra to a fair go society.

I think it's wonderful that Studiologic not being one of the really big players is producing such good gear recently. I know in the past, I have complained of their quality control with products I've owned , and they seem to have made quite some progress on this too. Kudo's to them!

 

When I was a child, people used to ask my father which football team he followed. He used to say...I follow the team at the bottom, because they need the most help 👍

[Chummy]

10 hours ago, HammondDave said:

“Shocked”… really?  Why is that?  Remember, just because you have a huge corporation, it does not mean that you make a better instrument. The Italians have been killing the Japanese biggies and continue to make better mousetraps for less money. Just look at Crumar vs Suzuki…  or in this case, Studiologic vs Yamaha.  

I'm "shocked" in a good way. Because the rational is the more expensive the better - e.g comparing YC73 to Numa X, the price difference is wide. + the fact that Yamaha is so big one would assume more money dumped into R&D and the fact that they also make acoustic pianos and all sorts of other instruments and recording equipment - all that know how would somehow translate into a more quality instrument.

 

 

 

 

[DeltaJockey]

18 minutes ago, Chummy said:

I'm "shocked" in a good way. Because the rational is the more expensive the better - e.g comparing YC73 to Numa X, the price difference is wide. + the fact that Yamaha is so big one would assume more money dumped into R&D and the fact that they also make acoustic pianos and all sorts of other instruments and recording equipment - all that know how would somehow translate into a more quality instrument.

 

 

 

 

There's also a train of thought that says the underdog may try harder to achieve the aspirations of becoming a top dog. Often the top dogs rest on their laurels, otherwise they'd sit on top forever, which is rarely the case. With the economic fallout from the pandemic as an example, the larger companies may have more invested in one basket, with less flexibility to change tack, whereas the smaller companies are more nimble in changing sources to meet the changing circumstances.

[D. Gauss]

3 hours ago, Chummy said:

 Yamaha is so big one would assume more money dumped into R&D and the fact that they also make acoustic pianos and all sorts of other instruments and recording equipment - all that know how would somehow translate into a more quality instrument.

 

yamaha also makes motorcycles and snowmobiles.  reminds me of this old ad for digital multitrack machines (sony vs mitsubishi):

 

[AUSSIEKEYS]

On 5/9/2023 at 11:05 AM, DeltaJockey said:

In Oz, we have a cultural observation called, "The Tall Poppy Syndrome". 

I think it's wonderful that Studiologic not being one of the really big players is producing such good gear. 👍

 

I concur with my Antipodean friend.

 

For years Australia has been the "A'hole" end of the world in regards to getting the "odd" music brands. Especially in the 80s and 90s. Yes sure Roland, Yamaha, Korg were lining the wall of those shops but anything out of the ordinary were few and far between. 

 

I remember in the 80s my first experience of Italian keyboards and modules totally blew me away (i even think it was a shop in Parramatta so not Sydney proper).

 

I thought these really inspire my sense of something different but alas in Australia were too expensive. (I used to dream about them as Im a sucker for non mainstream things and some synths vintage i have presently are definately non main stream and oddballs that have gone under the radar.)

 

To me I admire all Italian manufacturers for their differences to the big 3. I hope they put others on notice.

 

Latest Italian keyboard I acquired was a Numa Cocal 2x infact from DeltaJockey himself.

 

Although im in the middle of selling house and its packed away in the limited time Ive been able to play it i am very impressed. Sure there are things i dont like but overal i think its a great lightweight board. Once i get back to gigging when this monumental move finally happens then Ill get to see how it is for me.

 

Id consider a Numa X 73 if it was lighter ( i got the lighter Numa Cocal 2x because it was light weight due to my health)  but i know the Numa X 73 will have the zoning style of the later 80s and 90s that so many modern keyboards lack and what I really love.

 

Once DAWs came in zoning keyboards were more orientated away from stage use.  Studiologic in my mind by what I read shows how a gigging zoning keyboard should be (albeit now with great sounds).

 

Perhaps a lightweight 73 note Numa Cocal with the Numa Xs zone ability would be a light weight blast. But never the less once I pull out my Numa Cocal 2x to gig i guess Ill find my use for its lessor zoning abilities. Some is better than nothing. 

 

"Good on'ya my Italian Cobbers".

 

Dont let the big guys stop your innovations.

[CyberGene]

On 5/5/2023 at 3:40 PM, CyberGene said:

I can confirm that the Numa X Piano supports half-pedaling with the Roland DP-10 pedal 🥳 That’s my favorite sustain due to the anti-slip mat you step on. It has a switch for choosing between binary (on/off) mode and half-pedal mode. And in the Numa system settings you have to select the “Continuous B” mode.

 

P.S. I corrected my advise above from Continuous A to B. While both seem to work for acoustic pianos, the A mode doesn’t work well with the modeled electric pianos and would not immediately cut off the sound on pedal up. 

 

Unfortunately I have to correct the above advice regarding the Roland DP-10. Seems like both A and B continuous modes have different issues. The A mode tends to generate some low MIDI values even when released, like e.g. 0, 1, 2 and that messes up with the Electric piano patches that keep sounding for a few seconds after you release the pedal. Conversely, the B mode would only reach MIDI values of 112 or something and so the acoustic piano patches would not have full sustain.

 

I just emailed the Studiologic support to suggest they implement a third mode C which would work with Roland DP-10 and will offer the entire 0-127 MIDI range in a narrower region, say between 20-80% of the entire mechanical movement of the pedal. Hopefully they can implement it.

 

And here's another heads-up, I recently purchased an iPad Mini 6 which works great with the Numa X Piano 73 and not only fits on the rightmost side of the piano but also seems to have some magnet inside that would make it stick to the metal panel of the Numa and prevents slip, I am very happy.

 

 

[konaboy]

I have a video comparing Numa X to the CK series, if of interest. Hope you find it helpful.

 

 

[FuzzyPants]

Great video Woody.  One point I think you missed - if I'm not mistaken, the Numa can load new sounds from the company's on-line library (much like a Nord), while the Yamaha cannot. 

[voxpops]

One other thing, although it's difficult to be certain, is that the acoustic pianos seem to be sample-based but use modeling for string resonances, duplex scale, release note, key off and damper noise. The EPs are fully modeled, I believe. It may be similar to the old GEM acoustic pianos which were also sample-based and I think used some sort of look-up table. Again, the GEM EPs were modeled. I had a PRP800 for a while, which I really enjoyed playing, but which was totally unreliable!

[CyberGene]

47 minutes ago, voxpops said:

It may be similar to the old GEM acoustic pianos which were also sample-based and I think used some sort of look-up table. Again, the GEM EPs were modeled.

AFAIK some of the GEM engineers and product managers are now working for Studiologic which I believe I read somewhere under a Studiologic video on YouTube. Maybe they also obtained some of their technology. 

[konaboy]

2 hours ago, FuzzyPants said:

Great video Woody.  One point I think you missed - if I'm not mistaken, the Numa can load new sounds from the company's on-line library (much like a Nord), while the Yamaha cannot. 

Thank you.

Somebody else mentioned that in the comments, I searched on the website and found nothing, so I don't believe it's true.

New pianos might be bundled in firmware updates but no "library" that I could find.

[konaboy]

2 hours ago, voxpops said:

One other thing, although it's difficult to be certain, is that the acoustic pianos seem to be sample-based but use modeling for string resonances, duplex scale, release note, key off and damper noise. The EPs are fully modeled, I believe. It may be similar to the old GEM acoustic pianos which were also sample-based and I think used some sort of look-up table. Again, the GEM EPs were modeled. I had a PRP800 for a while, which I really enjoyed playing, but which was totally unreliable!

This is true, it's described in the manual actually. it really does make some of the piano models quite stunning to behold.

[Brad Kaenel]

29 minutes ago, konaboy said:

Thank you.

Somebody else mentioned that in the comments, I searched on the website and found nothing, so I don't believe it's true.

New pianos might be bundled in firmware updates but no "library" that I could find.

Yes, you can download additional sounds, and install them with the Numa Manager app.

 

Goto the "Products" page, select one of the Numa X piano models, then click the "Sounds" link in the menu bar --> [Overview] [Sounds] [Specs] [Support]

 

https://www.studiologic-music.com/products/numa_x_piano/sounds/

 

https://www.studiologic-music.com/support/articles/numa_manager/

[bjosko]

- and the B211 is my new favorite 👍

[CyberGene]

I played some of the acoustic piano patches in a rehearsal room a few days ago and they sounded terrific through the stereo PA system there and the other guys even pointed it out. Even the default piano sound which I previously disliked (when playing on headphones at home) sounded very realistic and warm. I’ve had so many issues with acoustic piano patches on various boards in the past that sounded great on headphones but it all went wrong through PA speakers. Not with the Numa though! Another score for Studiologic, I’m really becoming a fan. (Posting this while on a vacation in Naples 🇮🇹🍕❤️)

[konaboy]

12 hours ago, Brad Kaenel said:

Yes, you can download additional sounds, and install them with the Numa Manager app.

 

Goto the "Products" page, select one of the Numa X piano models, then click the "Sounds" link in the menu bar --> [Overview] [Sounds] [Specs] [Support]

 

https://www.studiologic-music.com/products/numa_x_piano/sounds/

 

https://www.studiologic-music.com/support/articles/numa_manager/

hi brad, thanks for helping me out with this, that's awesome!

[Brad Kaenel]

On 6/1/2023 at 11:25 PM, konaboy said:

hi brad, thanks for helping me out with this, that's awesome!

Hi Woody, all part of the service, sir.  Thank you for all your clear and helpful content — and you’ve got great-looking hands! 

[debaser]

On 10/28/2022 at 3:10 AM, danskeys said:

Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum.  After many years of not playing (after MANY years of playing a lot, before kids, wife, etc...) I am in the market for a new setup.  I've been doing a ridiculous amount of research into 88-note digital pianos.  My last keyboard was a Yamaha S90 which I loved and regret selling.  While I did love the sounds and even the feel, it was technically complex and I never got very deep into the menus at all.  I'm thinking the path in my second music life might be the Numa X Piano GT for the feel and the APs, EPs, etc., and then a 61-note MODX-type keyboard for more fun stuff.  I'm a piano player at heart, but when messing around for fun, I do love all the whacky sounds and arpeggio stuff on modern synths.  I really like idea behind the sound-in feature of the Numa, integrating another board into its interface.  Could I really get away with not having a mixer?  And I love the simplicity of the Numa interface.  While I'm perfectly fine with technology, I just never could get into the deep menu diving of some keyboards.  I have yet to try one of these Numas as none seem to be local for demos in Boston, so I have no idea about the feel.  But it's hard to imagine I wouldn't like the GT based on what I have read.  Thinking of maybe buying from Guitar Center online and can return to a store near me if necessary.   Any advice would be appreciated, for someone who has not looked into this stuff since 2005!

 

How about that! Mee too! 

 

Back in 2006 all my studio hardware went to storage and the 24-bus gazillion-channel mixer were sold due to kids and big time home renovation project. 

 

This week, some 15+ years later with minimum/no playing, after another big building project in a new place my "kid" graduate and I finally decided to buy a new piano/master keyboard. Some week...

 

After going through this entire thread I went trying and ruling out the Yamaha CK61 (it wasnt my cup of tea) and ordered a Numa X Piano73, due to CyberGenes double U-turn, HammondDaves insights, and Noah DCs ingenious ipad/midi setup amongst others great posts.

Thanks guys, a big help for someone like me. Please continue to post tips & tricks, so valuable.

 

It feels like a fresh breath of air to go Italian with fellows that actually seem to care and listen to users requests. Thats pretty rare 2023 in any industry and I want to support that, hoping mine behaves as it should.

 

This new-era-ultra-user-friendly centerpiece where I can hook up and play my other old stuff combined with ipad/ Android VB3m et al easily is such a game changer and lights that spark that wants me to begin playing again. Unpack the still mint condition Wavestation EX I bought 1991 maybe? Didnt see that one coming a month ago.

 

A new music journey begins - this time WITH iPhones😀

 

danskeys, how did it work out? Any tips to share now after some months of use?

[CyberGene]

46 minutes ago, debaser said:

and ordered a Numa X Piano73, due to CyberGenes double U-turn, HammondDaves insights, and Noah DCs ingenious ipad/midi setup amongst others great posts.

Congrats and welcome to the club 🙂 Make sure you install the latest firmware if it isn’t already. It’s probably the reason why I like the Numa now, apparently they improved the touch response a lot among other fixes and additions. 

[The_Star_Guy]

Welcome to the Studiologic "Club"!   As an owner of both the Numa X 73 piano and the NumaCompact 2X I can attest to the fact that the company product managers & designers seem to be sincerely paying close attention to the numerous requests that we users have been submitting.   And I have had a strong preference for modeled pianos over sampling for live use, especially at higher volumes.  And Studiologic still believes in affordable aftertouch as well!

[b3plyr]

12 hours ago, The_Star_Guy said:

Welcome to the Studiologic "Club"!   As an owner of both the Numa X 73 piano and the NumaCompact 2X I can attest to the fact that the company product managers & designers seem to be sincerely paying close attention to the numerous requests that we users have been submitting.   And I have had a strong preference for modeled pianos over sampling for live use, especially at higher volumes.  And Studiologic still believes in affordable aftertouch as well!

EPs are modeled in the Numa X. However, the APs are sampled. They do use modeling to add other AP characteristics. And they do it well. From Studiologic: “The "Acoustic modeling" makes acoustic piano sounds even more real. By reproducing string resonances, duplex scale, release note, key off and damper noise you will have the feeling of the real thing.”

[DeltaJockey]

30 minutes ago, b3plyr said:

They do use modeling to add other AP characteristics. And they do it well.

I think this is a good combination of technology they've chosen, because it allows the addition of older piano sample libraries, which after being cleaned up can have the benefits of the modelling added. I find this the case for the excellent Steinway B211 Tape, and find it very easy on the ears.😀

[stevmills]

Hi all, new Numa X 73 owner here. I purchased to use as flyable soft keys rig controller with decent onboard sounds as well. Have found a couple issues with current behavior that is a deal breaker if not likely to be something fixed in future firmware update. 
 

When change programs, any existing/sustained audio is just killed off abruptly. I should disclaim that my usual rig is based on a Nord Stage 3. But still.. given what the Numa X aspires to be, it seems graceful transitions from prog to prog should be doable.

 

2nd issue is related. For some reason, the Numa X also sends an all-notes-off/panic MIDI message with each and every prog change. I can’t seem to disable this anywhere. So not only do the onboard sounds get chopped when changing programs, any external, MIDI-controlled sounds so as well!

[Kentkeys]

Studiologic have just released four new brass ensemble sounds for the Numa X. Three of them are also suitable for the Numa Compact 2 and Compact 2X. As usual, they are free.

[brenner13]

I slight addendum for the Compact 2 & 2X; we get the three Movie Strings that came stock in the Numa X and three of the four new Brass patches. I’ve already made several new registrations with them. Fun stuff keeps coming from this great keyboard manufacturer. 

[RandyFF]

Great thread, giving me G.A.S. for the X73!  I’ve got the ES920, and while I love it, even at 38 lbs it’s still heavier than many of the latest boards, and I really notice this when I play ot.  And with 2 voices to work with I feel deprived, I want at least 3-4!  But still it fulfills its designated role as being piano-centric and dead simple, so no wasting time on programming. 

 

Question about AT: several have said it’s well-implemented, as in it engages without requiring fingers of steel (hate that), bt no one has talked about its suitability to easily, controllably do things like filter sweeps, to get the wah wah from the sound.  

[kenheeter]

The aftertouch feels really good, much more natural to use than my  Nord's aftertouch.  Unfortunately they don't seem to have developed the firmware to take full advantage of it (yet!).  You can basically turn it on and it will introduce vibrato and that's about it.  I think it is more useful when driving an external sound source which may allow you to assign aftertouch to various functions but I don't think it's there yet in the Numa X.  I really enjoy playing piano on the TP110 keybed though and I won't be surprised if they introduce more aftertouch options in subsequent firmware updates. It's definitely not a deal breaker for me and the types of gigs I do.  

[DeltaJockey]

37 minutes ago, kenheeter said:

The aftertouch feels really good, much more natural to use than my  Nord's aftertouch.  Unfortunately they don't seem to have developed the firmware to take full advantage of it (yet!).  You can basically turn it on and it will introduce vibrato and that's about it.  I think it is more useful when driving an external sound source which may allow you to assign aftertouch to various functions but I don't think it's there yet in the Numa X.  I really enjoy playing piano on the TP110 keybed though and I won't be surprised if they introduce more aftertouch options in subsequent firmware updates. It's definitely not a deal breaker for me and the types of gigs I do.  

I think the AT on my GT is fine. Once I got used to the feel, if I run a MIDI input script in my DAW, I can see it nicely modulate between the low teens and up to 127.

This translates into modulating filter sweeps as good as any keybed AT I've used.

[hrestov]

The acoustic modelling of acoustic Piano is not Simple. The use only one layer of sample, at fortissimo volume, and then with the modelling they get the p,  the po, and other dynamics. 
 

like the old gem rpx I thing. 

[RandyFF]

Thanks for the AT report!  

 

Sounds physically well-implemented, though I do prefer AT on semi/non weighted boards, it’s already a big effort for me with weighted actions, but then to steel my  hands for the AT, that can make for more overall efforting and stiff hands, something I want to avoid!