Gear Zealotry

[ProfD]

Gear is either a tool or toy or both depending on the user.

 

Of course, as with anything, some folks like to talk about, brag or boast when it comes to their toys.

 

I know two (2) things, 1) what works for me and 2) it's the musician who makes the instrument sing.

 

The rest is just lively discussion and debate.

 

 

[Threadslayer]

If anything, when I see someone with "worse" gear than I have and they are quite obviously a better player/programmer than I am, it's a bit embarrassing One guy I saw a few years back in a cover band similar to mine was still rocking a Korg Triton and his sounds and playing were just top notch.

These days, a guy sporting all the latest gear, bells, and whistles is much more likely to be a semi-pro weekend warrior/hobbyist than a full time working musician. More time on the job = more time to polish your chops and get the most out of your gear.

 

[CEB]

I don"t care what any of you turkeys use. You are all competition for my gigs. I want to be the only one using the right stuff. ððð

 

My Farfisa kicks your ass.

[Outkaster]

Disclaimer: I"m a Nord user. Of every keyboard I"ve ever used, my Nord has been my favourite and constant go to, as limited as the Electro 4 is. Unless Crumar comes up with something amazing my next and only keyboard purchase for the next 10 years will probably be a Nord.

 

Saying that, I get pissed off at how people put Nord keyboards on a pedestal.

 

I"ve played with singers who have said 'Yeah the Nord piano is good, everything else just falls flat to my ears.' Those same singers haven"t noticed the difference when I"ve ran my pianos through another board.

 

I"ve seen countless guys spend money on Nords because they"re the 'in' keyboard, only for them to use 10% of it"s functions. I see so many local guys use Nord Stages, and all they play on it is piano and maybe a string split. Why did they spend £2500 when a £1000 mid-ranged Yamaha/Roland would have done the same job? Because it"s red, and you"re only pro if you have a red keyboard.

 

We headlined a gig on Saturday and the support act had an old Hammond XC model. It sounded really, really good. I commented on his organ tone because it sounded great (and I thought it sounded more authentic than my Nord). He said 'Nah, I wish I had one like yours - they"re better.' No reason - just 'It"s Nord, it"s probably better.'

 

I"ve turned up at dep gigs with a Nord and people have collectively breathed a sigh of relief 'He must be good, he has a Nord.'

 

They do have a certain warmth to their sound and they"re so fun to use and yeah, they sound good FOH, but I do get pissed off at how people just get them because they see them on TV, rather than get something that would suit them or their band better.

 

 

People say this all the time. This is a fanboy forum.

[Morrissey]

All of that changes when you walk into a music store and hear and see an 14 year old inner city kid on a cheap keyboard playing and sounding better than Stevie Wonder...

Makes one feel like a fool strategizing all our big deal purchases.... that happened to me a number of times in the way-back... that will ground you! It ain't the meat it's the motion!

 

 

This. I feel like a fool every time I learn a tune from a Youtuber who is a WAY better player than me but teaching from an entry-level consumer Casio or Yamaha

[EricBarker]

I wasn"t gonna say anything about Nord, but I"m gonna say it. The snobbery for Nord reminds me EXACTLY of Leica cameras to the T. Down to the fact that it"s a huge name within the field, but unlike 'Yamaha' or 'Canon', it"s an unknown for many who aren"t in the field. I think that provides an air of exclusivity and hipsterism.

 

This said, I"m very impressed with Nords. I don"t really know them as I went the softsynth route before buying any really high end hardware workstations. But I do appreciate their dedication to 1:1 controller interfaces.

 

There"s one that appeared at my local music store, I jammed around a little on the other day, couldn"t quite get my head around it"s workflow yet, but it seems fantastic!

[Stokely]

Eh, there's a difference being what I'd call a "fanboy" and just appreciating something. A fanboy tolerates no criticism of their , I haven't noticed much of that around here. Most everyone is willing to admit shortcomings from their gear (nothing's perfect especially for everyone, and especially considering price.)

 

I must say though now that I'm getting older and can see "the end" of my gigging life--I'm more than willing to spend a bit more on gear that I've always wanted. I scrimped for many years, and what do I have a day job for if not to spend a bit (The weekend warrior comment above is spot on, I'm one. I'd add, when I see a band with a top-notch PA, "ah a bunch of lawyers" since a couple of the better cover bands in our area seem to be comprised of such!)

[Mr. Nightime]

In my case, I go with what sounds good to ME. I've heard the Nord is considered top of the line, as well as a Motif, and a Kronos.

 

Me, I'm happy with my $1000 Yamaha MM8. It has the feel I want, the sound I want. I've had many people comment how good it sounds.

 

Our church has a Yamaha MOX8, and I'll take mine any day over that, and I don't care that it's more expensive. In my hands, the MM8 sounds better.

 

There was a time where I thought I was lacking because I didn't have the newest and the "Best", but not any more. I've used the gear I've got to develop a sound unique to me.

 

It was mentioned about using USB interface in a live situation. I can't do that.

 

I tried that once, using my laptop with my controller board. The latency drove me nuts. I'll stick with hardware boards, thank you.

 

A friend of mine has a Nord C2. While it sounds good, I could never wrap my head around drawbuttons instead of drawbars, I'll take my SK-2. (I would still be using my XB-2 if it hadn't fried)

 

I agree, it's the player, not the gear. I've had people look at me with shock when they hear what I can get to come out of those little Casios and Yamahas that you can get at places like WalMart.

 

[Lou Gehrig Charles]

I saw the Leica fanboys even start referring to themselves "Leica Photographers".

 

The snobbery for Nord reminds me EXACTLY of Leica cameras to the T.

 

The Leica fanboy thing is the gold standard of snobbery. A rock with a Leica logo on it is a better camera than any of those tacky Japanese cameras, don't you know!

 

[ajstan]

From my experience, significantly more animosity and dismissiveness towards Nord exists than snobbery of Nord players towards other brands, including on the Nord User Forum.

 

Also, It seems convoluted to apply a negative connotation for bringing what is considered to be quality equipment to a job, whether it be keyboards, other instruments/equipment, or a PA. It's not really an admirable or virtuous exercise to speculate or make judgments on reasons for other people's purchase decisions, or to be some high-and-mighty arbiter of who deserves to have and/or enjoy some specific piece of equipment.

 

IMO, begrudging someone their joy is just as bad as being a snob.

[Mr. Nightime]

I'll say it, I'm not a big fan of Nord. There again, I'm not a fan of Roland, either. Just my personal preference.

 

But, when my wife and I hear another player, and he has a Nord, I will tell her that it is a quality instrument.

 

 

[KuruPrionz]

I saw the Leica fanboys even start referring to themselves "Leica Photographers".

 

The snobbery for Nord reminds me EXACTLY of Leica cameras to the T.

 

The Leica fanboy thing is the gold standard of snobbery. A rock with a Leica logo on it is a better camera than any of those tacky Japanese cameras, don't you know!

 

Haven't hung out much with the 4x5 crowd? Understandable, they live on their own planet.

I visited, briefly. Worthless for dance photography and other such things. But you are only supposed to shoot landscapes.

 

I've received scorn from ProTools snobs because I use Waveform. They can't and won't hear any difference from using a different DAW but it doesn't matter - you MUST have ProTools or be scorned.

God help you if you use an Peavey gear for any reason!!!!

 

I am doomed, eternally banished to suffer and die.

[GovernorSilver]

One of my favorite local musos, the singer/keyboardist of the band Bacchae, uses some low-end rompler. But she has such an intense stage persona that it doesn't matter if her board is that rompler, a Kronos, Nord Stage or whatever.

 

One of the jazz/fusion young guns of guitar, Nir Felder, revealed in an episode of Guitar Power with Dweezil Zappa, that a Mexi-Strat that he bought in 1996 is his first, and still main, guitar. Only customization was adding springs to the tremolo. I first noticed him when footage from Allan Holdsworth tribute shows, featuring Holdsworth alumni such as Steve Hunt, Virgil Donati, etc, was released and he was the one player who didn't bother going for anything even close to Holdsworth in sound or technical approach (furiously paced legato phrases), yet playing and sounding great in his own way.

 

 

[EricBarker]

I still haven't purchased my dream synth: the Korg Trinity!

[EricBarker]

I'll say it, I'm not a big fan of Nord. There again, I'm not a fan of Roland, either. Just my personal preference.

Yeah, not a big Roland guy. I dunno why, but they never really appealed to me, and I've never liked their keybeds. Okay, when I was 10 years old, I totally had the hots for a D-20 when I couldn't figure out how to program my DX7. Aside from that, they never really caught my attention. I wouldn't say I have much experience though, I've been out of the hardware world for quite a while.

[GRollins]

I buy non-cheap stuff for several reasons:

1) It has a particular voice/tone/sound that I like.

2) I get really annoyed if my equipment is limiting me. The only limiting factor I want to have to deal with is myself. If my gear is getting in my way, I don't put up with it, I replace it. (Cases in point: my first bass was a Danelectro, a cheap POS thing with a fifteen fret neck and you could only get to twelve of them. [No, NOT an exaggeration--this was a deadly limitation for a Chris Squire devotee.] Or my Yamaha MM8, which has some severe MIDI oddities.) Now Danelectros are all the rage and original ones bring in crazy amounts of money. Doesn't matter. I still hate 'em.

3) And this is a biggie: Once I decide I'm going to stick with something (e.g. keys), I go directly for top flight gear because the alternative--stair-stepping up the models--costs a lot more in the long run, and I'm going to want to go up the line sooner or later anyway.

4) I have a chance to get something at a really amazing price (cases in point: my Hammond A-100 or my second Behringer Model D or the free Kurzweil K2500 that supplied the keybed that eventually became my MIDI keyboard or...).

5) It has more keys. Don't laugh, I'm serious. Being a bass player, I expect to be able to hit low notes. One of these little toys with a three octave keyboard? Not me, man. I need my low notes. Yes, a lot of little keyboards can be transposed down an octave, but then you loose the mids. I will grudgingly make an exception in the case of, say, my Little Phatty, if I've got a riff that's all in the bass, but that doesn't stop me from wishing for more keys. Yes, I can use another keyboard to drive the Little Phatty, but then I lose that keyboard for other uses. From this, you can (correctly) deduce that I'm trying to figure out a way to upgrade my Voyager to an XL without spending a minor fortune. (If you hear of a rash of little old ladies being robbed of their lunch money...uh...it wasn't me...nope, not me...)

 

Still...none of this means that I'm better than someone else. It just means that I'm foolish enough to spend stupid amounts of money to get something that I've rationalized in my head...and I'm very, very good at rationalizing things. Ask my wife. When she comes to me wanting to do something, I oblige by providing her with a bespoke train of thought that conveniently supports the notion that what she wanted to do in the first place is, in fact, the one and only logical conclusion, given certain starting conditions. She thanks me and goes out to do what she wanted to do. I should probably start charging for my services... (might make enough to pay for a Voyager XL)

 

Grey

[cphollis]

Interesting thread. I had to reflect this for a bit. I love when you guys do this to me.

 

Why the reflection? On one hand, I am fortunate enough to play on top-shelf keys through top-shelf gear. Lucky me. I think I sound great these days. It took me quite a while to learn how to use my gear effectively, and that process is nowhere near complete. Not a week goes by that I don't get some sort of new insight into how to improve my sound in a new way. That in itself is big fun, especially when people notice.

 

I made my choices because sounding great brings me serious joy, and not that I want to impress anyone with flashy gear. I think I made some good choices for me and my situation, which will very likely be different choices for others in their situations. I've found the best thing I can do to improve my sound is to play for at least an hour every day, and play with others 2-3 times per week. I can easily do this now as I'm Officially Retired.

 

Yes, being honest, showing up with showy gear to a new gig can have a positive initial impact. It's like a sugar rush, because sooner or later you'll be evaluated by others' ears -- and not the brand names you happen to be using. I play with other folks who have great gear, and know how to use it. And I play with folks who have seriously modest gear -- and know how to use it.

 

Although I am obviously partial to Nords, I routinely steer people to Korgs, Casios, Yamahas etc. depending on what exactly they are looking for -- and their budget. Amplification is a similar discussion -- a good choice has a lot to do with how you play, what you play, where you play and so on. I'm partial to certain models, but I routinely steer people elsewhere once I understand their context.

 

The whole exotic recording gear thing puzzles me at present. Stupid expensive mikes, hand-wired preamps and compressors. I love how it all sounds, but I can't see myself going there given how good digital emulations are these days.

 

This brings up the larger question of why we do what we do. I don't have a great answer yet.

[timwat]

I think there are several different reasons I play music. And some of those are reasons I also choose to gig live.

 

Maybe I'm weary and a little cynical. The gear matters not so much these days. I know too many killer players who use cheap gear - often because a full timer needs to get as much out of a prior purchase as possible. I know too many shiny new gear owners who don't have their own voice yet.

 

And the acid test isn't really new or shiny at all - it's the simple acoustic piano.

 

Can you say something really personal and in your own voice on one of those? That really impresses me.

 

The gear talk thing nowadays - they're just tools to me. I'm not always satisfied with mine. But I haven't bought anything new in a while, and the temptation isn't there right now.

 

My year of my most significant recent musical development happened when I intentionally committed to not making any gear purchases those 12 months. I think there is both correlation AND causation.

 

My 0.02.

 

Tim

[The Real MC]

Oh look a dick measuring contest. I'm the biggest dick around here. Wait that didn't come out right...

 

I may have some high class vintage keyboards, but I'm no snob. You play a cheap clonewheel? A cheap monosynth? It's not the gear, it's the musician. If a musician can sound good, I'm happy as we need more keyboard players. Bring it on!

 

I have some cheap gear that actually sounds pretty good. Eight years ago I stumbled onto a Fender Telecaster in a store, just playing it unplugged I could hear the old school tone out of it. That $400 guitar is turning some heads in the band I play in now, as guitar snobs did NOT expect a Telecaster to pull off classic rock standards like AC/DC, Bon Jovi, acoustic guitar (!), etc. Even using a cheap Vox amp modeller to pull them off, I know how to dial in the sounds. It doesn't hurt that I grew up with a b**a** guitar playing brother who had all the good amps from the 70s and 80s.

[CEB]

All your Farfisa belong to us.

[S_Gould]

...This brings up the larger question of why we do what we do. I don't have a great answer yet.

 

The reason I play music is because I HAVE to.

 

'Musician' is a state of being, not a job description.

 

[Tusker]

In my experience of Keyboard Corner, when people have suggested gear, it was motivated by a strong desire to help. I love this place. Here's to that attitude.

 

[Outkaster]

I don't think so. I don't think anyone here intentionally wants to steer anyone the wrong way but I made mistakes a few times listening to people and drinking he Kool - Aid for certain products. If you play long enough and with enough gear you will be able to tell the difference.

[CEB]

I usually post what is bad with everything. Especially what I own. I have access to most everything locally except Kurzweil so I play about everything. People think I"m a hater. Especially a lot of Casio guys. Weird thing is I worked at a Casio dealer and gigged with a ton of Casio PDS synths. I like what they do but they do some humdingers when it comes to design omissions sometime.

 

Brand propaganda will tell you the strongpoints of a piece of gear. When I ask about gear I want to know they weakpoints.

[yannis D]

When I saw Dr.Lonnie Smith killing it with a Nord Electro 2 I saw the truth: it's the fingers not the gear.

If it was good enough for him it should be good enough for me/us

[ksoper]

The Reddit r/synthesizer forum can be humbling. I read through it for the posts where my experience can be of some help, but also to hear what folks are doing with cheap gear. They find a Portatone at Goodwill and wring every last drop out of it just like I used to do when I was young and broke. Some of the results are stunning. And here I am with dream gear that gets turned on maybe twice a week. I'm ashamed of myself.

[Stokely]

The funny thing is that the ONLY comments in recent years from either band or audience I've ever gotten (directed to me) was about one piece of gear: my Spider Pro stand And ironically enough, I wanted the black one but got the silver one because it was 100 bucks off. I'm not about the shiny, but apparently it's a real eye-catcher ;-)

[El Lobo]

I gig a Nord 5D, but I don't want a Nord 6 because it added features that I don't want or need. I have 2 Casios I play at home - an old workstation and a new 3000. My gigging tenor sax is a vintage Martin. Sax gear zealots think you can't be any good if you don't play a Selmer Mark VI. Of course they're wrong, but you can't tell them that. My back-up tenor is a private label Taiwan-made horn. I'm not gear-centric. I have what I have because, as the song The Continental says, it does what I want it to do.

[Doerfler]

I don"t care what any of you turkeys use.

 

My Farfisa kicks your ass.

 

comin' after you, Ed.

 

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/911/vTP10n.jpg

 

[mate stubb]

I don"t care what any of you turkeys use.

 

My Farfisa kicks your ass.

 

comin' after you, Ed.

 

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/911/vTP10n.jpg

 

Oh yeah? My Farfisa is a Professional!

 

http://www.combo-organ.com/Farfisa/Professional/Professional%2033d.jpg