Thoughts on this talented artists opinion.

[I-missRichardTee]

[video:youtube]

 

This dedicated pianist has gained some attention here. One esteemed member here, was critical of her, and I took her side. She, a strictly classically trained pianist, was having fun, being creative with genres well outside her sandbox,,, such as funk and other styles. So this bad ass member here, was not impressed, and I took her side.

 

Fast forward to this recent youtube.. and she is complaining about unkind ( though she does not specify ) remarks against her performance of some avant garde musical offering.

I may have changed my mind about defending her... I am on the fence with her situation since hearing her opinion here.

I am fully supportive of her creativity, still, except her opinion stated above sticks in my craw. For me it has to do with a quote falsely attributed to Voltaire: I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. If you post on a public forum you can expect a small group of trolls.

[re Pete]

I didn't see her avant garde video but watched her responce to it which has a short clip of it.

What can you say? When you bare your sole you can get hurt by others either intensionally or non-intensionally.

 

Also in the back of my mind is she's getting clicks money from YT

with the rant if correct?

 

With that said, I side with her argument.

She put in effort to something and some don't like it.

People can be crule.

 

I remember playing a song publicly which I thought was pretty good. Someone came up and I thought would compliment me but it was the opposite. I was surprised and smiled and said thanks. Another person came up and gave me a compliment on same song.

I gave same response.

 

Way back I had an avant garde performance of something I composed in NYC. In attendance listening to it, I was all tied up in knots wondering what the reaction would be.

It wound up getting a stanting ovation and I had to take a bow.

It was a great feeling. Surely could of been the opposite. But the audiance had an open mind.

 

Personally I don't know why some people don't like Hiromi. I've read critics of her on this forum. Great technic. I don't love every song she plays but I try to give things a chance. Some things need a second or third listening.

 

I've met people critical of some classical piantists who have recorded with major orchestras and have established careers.

Yet I know for a fact they wouldn't even have the balls to go get up onstage, if they could even actually play it.

It's so easy to be a critic.

Developing an open mind harder.

 

 

[BbAltered]

Mr. T - I myself do not think you need to defend or justify your comments praising Nahre Sol.

 

I think Billy Joel is a great technical pianist, and I also think he is a monumental jerk. These two thoughts - one positive, one negative - happily live side by side in my brain, and I have no need to justify or excuse those opinions of mine to anyone. I truly do not care if anyone agrees with me or disagrees with me: different folks, different strokes.

 

And truth be told: the discussion here at keyboard forum about Nahre Sol dropped off my radar a number of weeks ago, and I have long since forgotten all about it. If it were not for your own reminding me of your input in that discussion, I would have never given it another thought.

[SamuelBLupowitz]

I am fully supportive of her creativity, still, except her opinion stated above sticks in my craw. For me it has to do with a quote falsely attributed to Voltaire: I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. If you post on a public forum you can expect a small group of trolls.

I don't think this video is for the trolls, though. I think it's for us -- artists and appreciators of art. What kind of tone do we want to take, what precedents do we want to set, in how we communicate with other artists in the borderless world of online content creation?

 

There are always going to be trolls, of course (online and in, uh, meatspace) and we have to prepare ourselves for those deliberately rude responses if we want to continue making art.

 

But I think we music lovers, as appreciators of the craft, would never go up to a performer after a concert we attended and say "I think you suck." So shouldn't we measure ourselves and think twice before we give in to the easy pull of negative internet comment culture? When we're confused or challenged or turned off by stylistic choices, and our response is to tell the musician responsible that they are a bad artist, who benefits?

 

That's not to say we can't engage with artists who we disagree with, but I think there's a way to truly engage, and then there's the tenor of "I don't like it so screw you" (a tone I hear all too often). It's easy to detach and dehumanize. But I think the future of the arts and of human society demands that, before we speak up, we ask ourselves: what kind of community (or communities) do we want to foster?

[SteveCoscia]

There is a human dynamic here which the internet amplifies. The dynamic involves a person's written vs. verbal comments.

 

In the 1980s, I noticed this firsthand when customers sent their complaint letters to Ensoniq. The letter text was scathing and aggressive. So I'd phone the customer and we'd have a nice chat and resolve the matter. The phone conversation ambiance was 180 degrees from the customer's written words. And I'd ask myself, "Why would a nice guy like that write such a nasty letter?" The answer wasn't important, I just kept doing my job.

 

This phenomenon repeated itself with 100% accuracy in scores of customer complaints. And back then, the complaints arrived as postal letters (usually with the green Certified Mail sticker attached) as opposed to today's ubiquitous and easy-to-use online medium. It took more time and effort to write and mail a letter so there were fewer of them.

 

People will write differently than they speak. And the ease of online commenting multiplies this phenomenon.

[EscapeRocks]

As Bb mentioned above, I, too, separate my acknowledgment of skill from my like or dislike of what's being played.

 

Take the Hiromi example. She can play circles around me and is very talented. I just don't like what she plays. It's just not my thing.

[Song80s]

Lets be clear. This is Nacre Sol.

 

IMO, she is talented. Very talented and committed and thoughtful. And since she is creative, she is likely sensitive.

 

I get that, as a creative song writer.

 

However, if you post on YT, you can always expect 'negative' or snarky or shi^&^ remarks.

 

Always.

 

I believe a creative and productive artists also has to be a realist. Its impossible to please everyone every time. Impossible.

 

I understand exactly what Nacre Sol is stating. She took a creative chance with the improv musical piece. When you take some creative risks with a song, performance, you have to expect some followers/listeners to voice their 'opinion'.

 

It goes with the territory. I, personally, would not over analyze it for 7 minutes. Its possible, the negative remarks stung her, which is a normal human reaction. Thus she felt she had to defend her effort.

 

I don't mind negative remarks on my originals. I realize the ' norm ' is to not say anything when you don't like a performance or an original, etc.

 

IMO, I try to understand my listeners. And non-listeners. I have musical flaws, for sure.

Far far from perfect and likely I will never be 'perfect'.

 

I think its good to let go of the precious ego. Get out of the warm comfort zone. Its big complex and diverse world . It will surprise.

[drawback]

[video:youtube]

[CountFosco]

I think it's salient to remember that "the internet" is mostly a bunch of teenage boys in their bedrooms.

[Desert Rat]

To analyze the content of this single video without going back through the catalog of her others would be very near sighted. I was introduced to Nahre through Rick Beato a while ago (when she had less than 10 videos out there) and she has a desire to provide uplifting information to people. Welcome to the rank of martyr, Nahre.

 

She is talented. She does think outside the box quite often. And, she has not developed skin thick enough to differentiate between criticism and downright garbage (at least not to the degree necessary to prevent throwing it all away over someone's comment on how you speak vs. how you play). I hope she continues to post until she does as she has posited some rather insightful info over the time she has been on YT.

 

Unfortunately, YouTube is rapidly becoming a miasma of confusing (and often hidden) rules and inequitable punishments for those who break them. The greed of monetization has taken its toll and now those in power have to clean up the mess they made.

 

I hope Nahre pushes through this "perceived problem" and learns to ignore the trolls, listen to constructive criticism and continues to do what she does.

 

When the day is done, CountFosco is so correct when he says:"I think it's salient to remember that "the internet" is mostly a bunch of teenage boys in their bedrooms." (However, most of them are not watching YouTube...at least not Nahre's channel.)

[area51recording]

Welcome to the 21st century....EVERYONE is a critic anymore. I don't think you can put ANYTHING out there and not have a bunch of people express their dislike of you effort, sometimes in less than.....elegant terms. Also, in the YouTube era, all this criticism can happen with "real time" immediacy. Back in the day if you released a work of artistic expression, you may have received (if you were prominent enough) a rebuke of your effort from someone in print or on TV who was a "critic" by profession (how can that even be a legitimate gig?) but now days with the anonymity of the internet literally MILLIONS of faceless "critics" can have the same opportunity. It ain't going to get better either, no stuffing that genie back in the bottle. If your thing in life involves anything in a field of creative endeavor you really just have to accept that as fact, grow a little thicker skin and deal.....

[BluMunk]

Without being able to see the commenting that inspired this video, I will say:

 

1. Too often we confuse strong personal preference with authority on a subject.

 

2. Too often we confuse personal preference with objective views on quality.

 

3. Too often we are willing to feed our own egos by claiming absolute truth and insight about art, based only on our personal preference.

 

4. Too often the voice we're most interested in hearing is our own, even when we have nothing to say.

 

 

 

[CountFosco]

This, this, this and this.

[El Lobo]

In summary, she's saying it's inappropriate to make negative comments about a creative or artistic work.

 

There's so much wrong with that idea that I can't even begin to comment.

 

[BluMunk]

I forgot to add to my comment above: this is part and parcel with the internet. Anyone who expects to have mostly thoughtful, polite, or even just "not awful" interactions in an unmoderated corner of the internet is bound to be disappointed and hurt.

 

Also, three cheers for KC and Dave and Stephen for keeping this a place that's (mostly) worthwhile and human.

[David Emm]

The Internet allows people to show themselves UNFILTERED and the more distorted they are internally, the uglier the show. I eventually discarded the bulletin boards as too toxic. Anything that makes you feel as if you were covered in ticks and soul kissing Dick Cheney clearly calls for fire and plenty of it. Don't let either excessive criticism *or* praise stick for long. Get on with your work. Let that speak for you and *to* you. That's why we buy all this *stuff*, isn't it?

[Mike Davis]

If I don't like something, it may be that it's bad, but it's also possible that I just don't understand it. And really, it's hard to objectively analyze our own responses to things.

 

For example, I've really enjoyed the videos I've seen by Nahre Sol. I don't know exactly why, but I just do.

 

There's another exceptionally gifted young YouTube sensation who has been widely discussed and admired on this forum. I recognize that he has extreme talent and ability, but I just instinctively dislike what he does. I don't understand that either!

 

I really don't want to criticize anyone anymore.

 

"We're all just walking each other home." - Ram Dass

 

[Philip Clark]

If you're going to put out art, grow a thick skin.

 

Also, never read your reviews. Problem solved.

[El Lobo]

If you're going to put out art, grow a thick skin.

There ya go.

 

Everybody on this forum is a musician of some sort. If you don't have a thick skin, being a musician will just be too damn hard.

[Outkaster]

Suck it up. First of all who cares? Trolling aside she isn't as important as she thinks she is. I get criticized on my playing all the time from my teacher because that's why I am there. If you put yourself out there it's going to happen. It's part of being a performer or an artists. Like I said she needs to suck it up.

[BluMunk]

Eh. How important does she think she is?

 

I think she's just under the mistaken impression that anonymous and wide-reaching internet platforms are going to be a 'safe' way to build community.

 

Again, it's hard to say whether she's over-reacting because we cannot see what she's responding to, but if any member of these forums (particularly one with the talent of Nahre) posted in the "listen to my stuff" thread, and people responded with "that's shit ur shit" "sucky" and the like, the original poster would be justified in being hurt.

 

I think she just misunderstood the scope of her audience and the nature of the platform. No need for her to "suck it up" or to not be hurt when what she thought was a happy place turned out to not be so.

 

Also, there's an element here that reflects how so many young people (which I might borderline count as) now live their lives publicly on social media. This is likely more important for her because the line between trolls on social media and trolls in real life is less clear than it is for us oldies.

[Threadslayer]

she isn't as important as she thinks she is.

That was my takeaway as well.

[Markyboard]

Disco sucks.

[BluMunk]

Disco sucks.

 

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man!

[Markyboard]

Disco sucks.

 

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man!

,,,,,,,,,,Sorry,,,,,,,,, didn't,,,,,,,,,,, mean,,,,,,,,, to,,,,,,,,, cause,,,,,,,,, a,,,,,,,, commation,,,,,,,,,,,,

[MathOfInsects]

Musicians are social clods. Side effect--or cause, really--of being the ones who said, "No, you guys go and hang out by the river drinking cheap beer and making out with cheerleaders, I am going to stay at home and practice arpeggios and maybe learn "Classical Gas."

 

She's a clod.

 

Plays like a fiend though.

[I-missRichardTee]

Aside from the clod just above my post... You guys nailed it.

But no one has mentioned her incursion on the right to speak your mind, and her opinion that would disuade one from doing so. Even the remarks by the insect known as math, are acceptable.

Live and let live Ms Sol.

[Song80s]

Disco sucks.

 

Sure , it was over played. Lots of bandwagon at the time.

 

But it is fun to play. Especially repetitive drum beats and loud bass. And Maj7th chords with string sections. I love that stuff

[CowboyNQ]

...no one has mentioned her incursion on the right to speak your mind, and her opinion that would disuade one from doing so.

IMRT it's very hard to do this as we're lacking proper context due to the fact she took the original video down and therefore the comments with it.

 

No right (including the right to free speech) is absolute. You alluded to as much yourself when you referenced the old standby of yelling "fire" in a cinema.

 

If her video was subject to hateful, abusive, ad-hominem attack, I'd stand with her philosophically and say "poor behaviour". Although I'm not sure much can be done about it - everyone who achieves a modicum of notoriety is subject to trolling. And the video she has posted in response will most likely paint a target on her back. Essentially she's inadvertently giving trolls (if she's indeed been trolled) what they want - attention.

 

If she received honest, unemotional, but not necessarily positive feedback, my advice to her would be along the lines of "get over it or actively moderate/block the comments section".

[jimkost2002]

As Jean Sibelius said No statue was ever erected to a critic.

 

Also worth reading are Mingus comments about critics and reviewers in Beneath the Underdog