Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[MathOfInsects]

Tonight's edition of "Can You Spot the SS3"? I was gripey about having to position it so close until I realized....SO?? It's STILL a monitor, even when I don't get the full side-speaker treatment... (I was running to FOH.)

 

http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab67/mathofinsects/IMG_4518_zps5kiwgxl6.jpg

[Al Coda]

 

All that being said, I'd suggest you FIRST simply run your "Sub Out" out of the SS, dial off the HIs and MIDs using the Thump 12's built in EQ, and see how that sounds to your ear. I suspect you may be very pleased with the results.

 

- Tim

 

YES! Great point Tim, I second that emotion! Just try it with the sub out...very simple and works well.

 

I had KC Dave stop by yesterday to pick up my SS3 and B1200 for a "test drive" this weekend. I hocked him up both ways (B1200-SS3, and SS3-VB1200), and frankly it sounded great both ways. But Dave liked the simplicity of just using ONE cable out of the SS3 to drive the sub. It's simple, and quick...and sounds just fine

 

I wonder why y´all ignore the fact the SSv3´s 8" and 6.5" speakers have to handle all the low end load even you connect a sub or bass amp to the SSv3´s "fullrange (sub) - output".

 

Simplicity or not, it MUST be better the other way around, at least because it protects the SSv3´s woofers much more.

 

A.C.

[I-missRichardTee]

Al Coda if you could make this very very simple and direct, without the details. I will get details after I get the simple 2+2=4 concept.

If play left hand bass. I am very fussy about the tone of the bass. Long ago a friend showed me an electronic crossover.. as applied to multiple speakers

I was impressed with how adjusting it changed the way the bass sounded.

 

Knowing this sensitivity to bass... please tell me what system would give me protection for the SS3 and a control of how much bass goes into the SS and how much into a sub

Simply put

Which sub where I control how much high bass goes into the SS3?

I do not understand the hooking up part, so again, just the concept please.

Thank you Al Coda, take the Coda and stop at the fermata, then wait.

[Al Coda]

... please tell me what system would give me protection for the SS3 and a control of how much bass goes into the SS and how much into a sub

 

The theory:

 

The best control you´d get w/ a component system,-

active stereo 3-way x-overs, separate amps for bass mids and highs on each side and separate speakers or 3-way-cabs w/ dedicated low/mid/hi inputs.

I had such system in the past but it was BIG and HEAVY !!!

And it wasn´t 3D which is what we want from SSv3.

 

The Reality:

 

In regards on you demands, you have to make some compromise w/ the SSv3 because of it´s portability and design.

 

The SSv3 has internal fixed frequency x-overs and unfortunately when you plug in a cable into it´s "sub/fullrange- output", there will be NO HPF active for the internal SSv3 electronics.

It would be great if it were, but it isn´t.

 

We know the ideal x-over for the SSv3 is 100Hz because the internal 8" and 6.5" speakers work best above that frequency.

Can be, something between 100Hz and 125Hz works great too but IMO isn´t worth to make it continuously variable and/or user selectable.

 

Some kind of simplicity is good always,- so it seems to be the best to find a sub or bass amp which offers A/B or L/R inputs and 100Hz HP filtered outputs,- may it be the Behringer or not.

 

But when it is essential for you the have the full control over what the SSv3 and a sub/bass amp shall handle low frequency wise,- you might consider buying an active stereo 2-way x-over offering the correct frequency ranges or some freely adjustable stereo LP/HP filter combo, go stereo into that device and (stereo or mono) LP-filter out to the sub or bass amp,- and stereo HP-filter out to SSv3.

 

The routing:

 

Keyboards > into mixer

Mixer stereo out > into LP/HP filter device

LP filter(s) out to sub/bass amp

HP filters (L & R !) out to SSv3

 

simple as that

 

A.C.

 

 

 

[I-missRichardTee]

Thank you, your Capo!

[Tombsalley]

On the sub issue. On a small gig, I could see just taking the sub out of the SS

To a sub below and be done with it. It's only on larger jobs would Ii need the

Crossover. But, as long as you your not cranking it, the SS sounds fine to my ears the simple sub out way.

That would be the first thing to try before getting a crossover.

And if you have a mixer,you could just play with the eq. Until your happy.

Just a thought.

[HammondDave]

How about designing an SS3 with a solid low end so you don't have to pay for and schlep a heavy subwoofer in order to get decent bass?

 

[HammondDave]

Interesting side note...when I saw Lisa Fischer last week her amazing guitar player JC Malliard played all his guitars through an Ampeg SVT. I asked after the show why he uses a bass amp. He said he uses this amp because he feels that the bass response was so important for the tone of his acoustic guitars. What an amazing sound!

 

[video:youtube]

[Joe Muscara]

Nice post, Aspen. I agree.

 

Amplification has been the one point lacking for keyboard players. Look at how many discussions we have had here about the lousy keyboard amps made by Roland (of all people!) and Peavey. Many others have tried to step it up, including Hartke and Carvin. It seemed that the solution was to use PA speakers instead. Now we have you/CPS raising the bar even further. I congratulate you. It is obvious that what you've created here has changed things for keyboard players for the better. Witness those of us who view and even post in this thread who don't have one yet. I for one am looking forward to the day when I get to try one out, but I won't let myself until my budget allows. I have enough GAS already.

 

This thread is a tribute to what you have achieved.

[Al Quinn]

OK, had to write a post on how the SSv3 has changed my perceptions around keyboard amplification. Call me a fan boy, fine, I don't care

 

Revisiting My Thoughts On Keyboard Amplification

 

It's a different game now

 

Nice writeup Chuck. My experience has been the same.

[TimA]

OK, had to write a post on how the SSv3 has changed my perceptions around keyboard amplification. Call me a fan boy, fine, I don't care

 

Revisiting My Thoughts On Keyboard Amplification

 

It's a different game now

Really great write up!!

Tim

[Tombsalley]

How about designing an SS3 with a solid low end so you don't have to pay for and schlep a heavy subwoofer in order to get decent bass?

Maybe vs4 but, really the size of this unit makes it possibly to use in tight spaces.

Besides it would increase the size and weight probably looking at a 70-80lb

Cab. I think the low end on the 40lb. Sub would still beat out adding the extra weight and size., besides I can handle 2 40lb speakers with much more ez.

[MotiDave]

I just ordered mine. The only thing that held me back for a month or so was this sub question. I finally decided to dive in and I'll get a sub if need after i try it.

 

I'm going to need to borrow a chainsaw soon ... sorta excited

[DanL]

I've gotten by without a sub so far, but I'm starting to lean towards using one. I have a couple songs where I'm doing some synth bass and at loud volumes it farts, and some of my sound effects in the Floyd band- explosions, heartbeats, etc, don't have enough oomph (even though I'm in the PA too, just to have them sound clear on stage).

 

For most gigs, especially the simple piano/organ blues stuff, the SS3 is fine by itself.

[Bernie9]

Sorry guys but I am confused.

I just got a B1200D snd read conflicting ways of hooking it up to my SS3. I am going from SS3 sub out to B1200D at 100HZ. Other posts say mixer to the sub and then to the SS3. I can't even see how one can do the latter method on my sub.

 

What am I missing here ?

[JeffLearman]

On the sub issue. On a small gig, I could see just taking the sub out of the SS

To a sub below and be done with it. It's only on larger jobs would Ii need the

Crossover. But, as long as you your not cranking it, the SS sounds fine to my ears the simple sub out way.

That would be the first thing to try before getting a crossover.

Bingo. When using a sub, you don't need a crossover if all you want is more bass. But you can get more volume in the midrange if you use a crossover.

 

And if you have a mixer,you could just play with the eq. Until your happy.

U\Yeah, but unless the mixer has separate outputs for subs and SS3, with independent EQ (or by using additional channels to do that), the mixer won't get as much max volume out of the system, as using a crossover.

 

The basic idea is simple: To get the max output from the system, don't make the SS3 carry the bass load, so it can go louder in the mids. To do that, you have to roll off the bass upstream of the SS3.

 

It's nice that the Behringer has this feature built-in. They get maligned for a lot of things, but they're pretty damned good at picking useful features to put into an inexpensive package.

[JeffLearman]

If you're DIY-handy, you could also breadbox your own, even if you used something like:

 

Part Express 8 Ohm 150hz 200w crossover

Great idea, but I don't think that's quite the right part, since it's designed for power signals, inside a speaker, with tweeter attached as well. If you don't connect a tweeter, it'd have different response than designed, and I suspect other issues (left-right crossover, shielding, etc.) Plus it's way overbuilt for a line level signal.

 

[Al Coda]

I am going from SS3 sub out to B1200D at 100HZ.

 

No, you don´t.

CPS SSv3´s "sub out" is mono fullrange, not 100Hz filtered !

 

Behringer B1200D´s OUTPUTs A & B are 100Hz hipass-filtered only, not it´s INputs nor it´s THRU-puts A&B !

 

Using a mixer you go:

 

Mixer Main Outs L & R into > Behringer B1200D INs A&B ...

Behringer B1200D OUTs A&B into > CPS SSv3´s L & R Inputs.

 

When using the THRU-puts of the Behringer B1200D,- these go to FOH stereo.

Using SSv3 sub/fullrange mono out is the option sending a MONO signal to FOH alternately.

 

O.k. now ?

 

A.C.

 

[Theo Verelst]

The electronic circuit for a basic, first order separation filter with basic characteristics isn't a very hard DIY project in principle.

 

This is the main curcuit, left side audio in, right side audio out:

http://www.theover.org/Keybdmg/lowhighpass.gif

 

You do need a good, low impedance buffering at the left, and high enough impedance at the connected inputs on the right. It should be possible to out this simple passive circuit in a little box, even for non-DIY-savvy chaps.

 

In principle this circuit doesn't exhibit distortion, but for pro use there are potential problems that would need proper covering.

 

T.

[MotiDave]

Ok, my ssv3 is scheduled to ship tomorrow. KC poll

 

A. Wait and get it, be prudent, cautious

B. Call back and add a B1200D-PRO to the shipment, don't be a namby pamby.

 

Polls are open ... Go,

[timwat]

If you're DIY-handy, you could also breadbox your own, even if you used something like:

 

Part Express 8 Ohm 150hz 200w crossover

Great idea, but I don't think that's quite the right part, since it's designed for power signals, inside a speaker, with tweeter attached as well. If you don't connect a tweeter, it'd have different response than designed, and I suspect other issues (left-right crossover, shielding, etc.) Plus it's way overbuilt for a line level signal.

 

Yes, you're right. Was searching a bunch of example components for a DIY project and posted the wrong Parts Express item.

 

Someone could, of course, throw a simple inline capacitor solution on, which is what I think this thing is:

 

FMOD Crossover Pair 100hz High Pass

 

But I think it's either a 6db or 12db slope. IIRC, to get a 24db slope would probably meaning designing and building an active circuit, which might be a fun exercise but it is probably easier to just buy one of those rack-mount units I posted earlier, or this little $77 active Rolls unit:

 

Rolls SX21 Tiny 2-Way Crossover

 

The purist in me is tempted to make the signal distribution more discreet between the SS and LF support (and I hated Venn diagrams in grade school), but the gigging musician in me is happy the way the SS and my GK bass amp sounds together and don't want to add more stuff into my gig bag.

[DanL]

You'd need 2 of those rolls units to run stereo, or am I missing something?

[Bernie9]

Thank you AC-got it now.

Bernie

[Brettymike]

Yay page 101! .

By the time Aspen brings out a larger sss with beast sized drivers to finally kill it all, might be good timing for me to buy one.

I want to open the throttles on a monster, I want more I want it all

Brett

[Theo Verelst]

to run high power, accuracy is important, kilowatts of excess power hasn't been rocket science since the 70s.

[Brettymike]

Aspen can do it, and has the best little box of tricks on the market at the moment.

Brett

[Theo Verelst]

Not for what I want. I didn't go against him though, I'm fine with the product.

[HammondDave]

Let's talk about weight, I am obviously not an expert on the technical issues that go into powered speaker design, but don't they make light weight 12 inch drivers? I know that Accugroove incorporated neodymium drivers which are apparently much lighter weight. You really don't see a lot of speaker manufacturers use these. But the ZLX12P comes in at 34 lbs. I guess it's all the plastic that make them so light (and inexpensive).

[Brettymike]

Those neodymium's are incredibly powerful (and Lighter) but damned Expensive. I've got a set of 35o.d x 15mm thick Neo's , and you've got to be wide awake holding 2 of them in close proximity.

Last I heard was it's hard to get , and it happens most of it comes out of China's ground.

Brett

[HammondDave]

Yeah, I could not believe how lightweight the Accugrooves were. Too bad not everyone uses them. How much more could it cost? When people are spending $400+ for a 40 pound plus subwoofer, seems that a SS4 with a 12 inch Neo speaker would not cost $400 more and may weigh just as much as an SS3.

 

I am sure that Aspen considered this when he designed the SS3.