Yamaha CP4 - first impressions

[Theo Verelst]

Impressions of the complex area of modern digital pianos (please a bit more advanced than long-existing sample players) cannot be based on a quick sound impression only, that wouldn't be fair to the people of Yamaha who worked on getting something as complicated as Spectral Component Modeling, such that we are able to enjoy a broad range of much less boring playing experiences.

 

It could be that a single note "ploink" of a certain sample set sound great on certain monitors, but what happens if you want to actually *play* with a piano sound. Can you hear the notes in chords "move" through the piano, can you emphasize velocity values in-between samples, without that the result is quickly boring, and can you bring out complicated jazz chords in the higher ranges without falling of your chair in disgust ?

 

T.

[Aidan]

I haven't been able to compare the NS2 and NP2 side by side -- actually, I've yet to play the NP2; neither GC nor SA have had one on the floor -- but I'm curious to know if the NP2 is weighted any heavier than the NS2. Aidan, do you know? I can't remember if you had the NP or NP2. Who else has played both? Dave Ferris?

 

I had the original NP. When I switched to the NS2, I was a bit apprehensive that it would have a much lighter action, as I remembered that being the case when I tried a demo one at a music show about six months beforehand. However, when it arrived, there didn't feel a huge amount of difference between the two.

 

I do wonder, in retrospect, whether the action loosens up over time and that's why the one at the show, which had experienced a lot more wear and tear than my own freshly-purchased, felt much lighter.

[MusicaL]

I had the original NP and still own the original Stage. The NP action felt heavier and the throw on the keys seemed longer giving the action more heft than the NS. It wasn't a huge difference, but it was noticeable side by side.

 

aL

[Dana.]

Thanks Aidan and aL.

 

As I recall, Stage Classic's action was lighter and more shallow than the Stage 2 and NP. Even from the Classic to the EX, I recall refinement.

[mwf]

can anyone recommend decent speakers for home use for the cp4? something like yamaha HS80?

 

Thanks

 

Mark

[mate stubb]

This is a thread about the CP-4. Your questions about speakers are probably better posed elsewhere.

[Jazz+]

What's wrong with the internal speakers?

[orangefunk]

they're simply not loud enough I was having to put my ear real close to the keys to hear any sound even then it was quite unpiano-like same story with my Nord Stage 2 best to use headphones or the main out...

[Aidan]

Thanks Aidan and aL.

 

As I recall, Stage Classic's action was lighter and more shallow than the Stage 2 and NP. Even from the Classic to the EX, I recall refinement.

 

I'd agree with that. I briefly had a Stage 76 classic and I didn't like the action at all for playing AP. When I tried the NP1 in a shop, I was pleasantly surprised to find it was something I could live with after my previous experience.

[Aidan]

I just thought I'd add how much I'm digging the mono pianos on the CP4/40. I spent a while yesterday tweaking a default mono preset (based largely on the CF Mn+ factory voice). When I was done I switched back to one of the factory stereo sounds and found myself actually preferring my mono tweak.

 

Btw, hands update - problem has completely gone away again, I'm glad to report. There is a nagging feeling of regret inside me that the issue may not have been really related to the CP4 but was maybe just a 'perfect storm' of events.

[Jazz+]

Why not get another CP4 and see how it goes with the hands?

[Aidan]

I might take another look at some point Jazz+ but I'd want to spend at least a whole afternoon playing on the damn thing before I made the move.

[Jazz+]

Playing a whole afternoon on any digital tends to make my hands sore.

[Mickey Keys]

Apologies for bumping an old thread, but it seemed the right thing to do given the subject.

 

Well, I joined the club of CP4 converts this week.

 

Not getting any younger, and back issues aggravated by schlepping gear down the drummer's 2 flights of stairs and a 180 degree turn on the landing convinced me that it was time to pare some weight off the rig. At 56 lbs. plus the case, it was finally time to consider replacing the RD700NX.

 

Looked at a few boards, but nothing really checked the boxes for me . . . until I started reading about the CP4, and listening to some sound bites (thanks, dazzjazz and others!).

 

But I was also resolved not to buy without a hands-on. Yeah, I know online retailers have liberal return policies, etc., but I'm funny that way. I'd almost resigned myself to a support belt and pumping iron when I dropped into a local Yamaha piano dealer and was astonished to find one on display.

 

Why astonished? Well, they have plenty of acoustics and home digitals but never once before this week had I seen anything remotely like a current stage piano there.

 

Long story short, after a couple of return trips to be sure of my piano lust, I pulled the trigger.

 

Now, I'm nowhere near the expert on sample quality, etc., that most of you are here. All I know is that the pianos on the CP4 are much more enjoyable to my ears (taste of course being highly subjective) than the RD's. To me, the mids sound like they will be much more at home in our mix. Highs have just enough sparkle and the lows . . . very nice.

 

And the keybed reminds me of the P200 I had 15 years ago, but a tad more responsive.

 

I now really understand what the brain > finger > sound connection is all about.

 

All in all, the first stage piano I've had where the first few days of ownership have far exceeded expectations.

 

It's integrated easily and seamlessly with my setup, which uses Set List Maker to call patches and setups on both my boards. That was a concern, but it vanished quickly...

 

It even seems to be a better match-up sonically with the Traynor K4 (hopefully powered speakers will be the next upgrade after the credit card gets off the critical list).

 

Some other random observations:

 

-The audio playback feature is more quickly accessible than the one on the RD, and I can control it with a footswitch. Now we can, for example, start "Allentown" with the steam whistle and end it with the pile driver!

 

-The control panel seems much easier to get around, and I like where everything is placed. I also like the flat top for resting glasses, iPods, and miscellaneous other objects (my top board will be an obstacle to idiots putting drinks on it )

 

-As for the display . . . I'll get over that.

 

-Then there's the weight. Eighteen pounds may not seem like a lot to the younger bucks, but it makes a huge difference. Much more maneuverable, partly because it's about 6" shorter thanks to Yamaha putting the pitch & mod wheels where they ought to be!

 

First rehearsal with it tonight, and I must admit to being somewhat stoked . . .

 

 

 

 

[JeffLearman]

Welcome to the dark side!

 

The display is small, but on such a simple keyboard you really don't need more very much.

 

I agree with your assessment, after having mine for two weeks as of today. Mine replaced a 55-lb MR76, and I'll use it with the same 15-lb case.

[LX88]

I got to demo the CP4 next to the Roland RD 800 recently.

 

They are both great in my opinion. Possibly because I have become very used to my Roland RD 300 GX, I was really impressed with the sound of the Roland RD 800.

 

I didn't care as much for the action on the Roland however. The Yamaha had it beat in that department. But the Roland had a very full , very fat sound which is one reason I am staying with the Rd 300GX superior grand sample.

 

But I liked them both very much.

 

By the way, for anyone thinking of pulling the trigger on one of these, Guitar Center is having a 15 percent off sale at the end of this month.

 

Which helps when you are at this price point.

 

I am in no way affiliated with GC, but I do like to save money.....

[drawback]

The Yamaha had it beat in that department. But the Roland had a very full , very fat sound which is one reason I am staying with the Rd 300GX superior grand sample.

 

On my CP4 I feel like I have the best of both worlds. There's the new CFX (more of what I like about) Yamaha, and when I want that softer hammer-felt / thicker resonance of a Roland, I use the CF sample. I've found the layout i.e: sliders within left-hand finger reach while playing a chord, and the keyboard action to be superb. Very responsive EQ, love the bass collection for splits. Only drag is the usual Yamaha UI opaqueness.

 

 

[Mickey Keys]

I didn't care as much for the action on the Roland however. The Yamaha had it beat in that department.

 

Total agreement there. At rehearsal tonight we were kicking around ideas for other Billy Joel songs (since "Allentown" had gone so well), and just for grins I tried the opener of "Prelude/Angry Young Man".

 

I nearly nailed it . . . something I was never able to do on the 700SX OR the NX. Of course, my technique may have improved in the last two weeks, but I'm sure the Yammy action had something to do with it.

[allan_evett]

Welcome to the club, Mike. I've had my CP4 just shy of a year, and continue to be impressed with the brain>finger>sound connection. For a digital piano, it eerily captures the experience of playing a well mic'd, Yamaha grand piano.

 

Not surprised to read the outcome of your rehearsal story. While I suspect technical improvement to be partly responsible, the CP4's touch is definitely optimized for playing; not too light, but not like wading through a marshmallow swamp either. I feel it's rather well balanced, and certainly plays a part in being able to execute challenging pieces.

[lekanout]

It's very interesting to read all the different reviews the difference between everybody.

Reviews are sometimes the opposite.

Some prefer the Cp4,others the rd800..

Even if i had the 2 and choose to keep the roland and sold the yam,they sounds good and have good keybed.

 

A big advantage for the yam is the weigh for sure.

The big advantage for the roland is to be better on all the other things outside the (personal )keyboards sounds and keybed(interface,number of sounds... etc etc)

[JeffLearman]

It's a shame, though, that on the CP4, I can't use the mod wheel to control depth on Rhodes stereo vibrato or Wurlie tremolo, only rate. I'd definitely prefer to control depth! Plus the rate control is too sensitive to use effectively. Whoever assigned MIDI channels to the FX parameters didn't understand how we use them.

[Mickey Keys]

Welcome to the club, Mike. I've had my CP4 just shy of a year, and continue to be impressed with the brain>finger>sound connection. For a digital piano, it eerily captures the experience of playing a well mic'd, Yamaha grand piano.

Thanks Allan, and I very much agree. The brick-and-mortar store just happened to have the CFX, CFIII, and S6 on the floor, so I was able to experience their excellence firsthand as well (try doing that at Sweetwater, LOL).

 

Incidentally as you might notice from my sig, Im still playing and enjoying the Kurz that came my way via your good self a little over three years ago. Just thought you might like to know that it still has a home where its appreciated. . . Thanks again!

 

But I must now admit that with the advent of the CP4 the PC3 has become my second best gear purchase ever.

 

A big advantage for the yam is the weigh for sure.

The big advantage for the Roland is to be better on all the other things outside the (personal )keyboards sounds and keybed (interface,number of sounds... etc etc)

 

Yepper, for me the weight loss was initially a huge advantage.

 

But its actually been far overshadowed by the sheer excellence of everything else.

 

As much as I liked my RDs I was always vaguely dissatisfied.

 

Frankly had it not been for my hatred of the user interfaces on my two previous Yamahas (a P200 and an S08), Id probably never have defected to Roland. The RDs larger display and the ability to access the MIDI controller buttons made it easy to create and tweak setups on the fly something Id never dare attempt with a Yamaha.

 

That will probably be the only thing Ill miss with the CP.

 

But found solutions will be.

 

[lekanout]

There are other things for the roland:

-for me yamaha made the CP4 for the musician who just want to play and doesn't care about the rest.

In fact it has a very good keybed,good piano and eps...and some good(romper type sounds),effects(especially VCM)are really good too.

 

But no modelisation:

-The roland has a dedicated engine for pianos and eps,and this is very useful for programming his own piano like a cameleon.

-the roland has an organ emulation engine too.

Not a hammond or a nord,but as good to be useful if you don't have a clone.

And better than the yam organs.

-EQ for live sets are dedicated for the roland on the panel,and all is recall when you change sounds.

And it's a different block than the effects.

The master eq always keep the fader position on the CP4,so it's unusable when you change the sounds.

(do you keep the same EQ settings when you're playing a piano,and a ep,a pad or a synth sound?)

 

If you want a dedicated eq on the yam,you have to use a MFX block to save it with the sound...so less MFX..

 

Synth sounds:

Tons of very good synth sounds on the roland..far better than the yam synth sounds..

 

Just some exemples..

[Mickey Keys]

There are other things for the roland:far better than the yam synth sounds..

 

<>

 

Just some exemples..

 

What is this? A contest?

 

You may have noticed that I'm a former owner of TWO iterations of the RD700. I'd been playing Roland (700SX and 700NX) for the last 8 years.

 

I am aware of all those things you enumerated. Still, I went back to Yamaha for a reason.

 

Acoustic pianos and keybeds? Had my fill of Roland's, thanks. I'm finally going back "home". I've always liked Yamaha's AP's and actions better. EP's are a toss-up for me.

 

Synth and organ, etc.? The PC3 covers that nicely for me, thanks.

 

On balance, it all adds up to the fact that I finally have what, for ME, is the perfect rig.

 

It's all subjective. Especially at this price-point, there is no such thing as "A is BETTER than B"; and if someone says that, I'm gonna call them out on it.

 

However, if you say, "I personally LIKE A better than B", that's an acceptable argument.

 

Talk up your choice if you like, but don't slag somebody else's choice like a kid challenging a classmate to a weenie-measuring contest.

 

Yamaha doesn't work for you, Roland no longer works for me.

 

Buy what you like, like what you buy . . . because buyer's remorse really sucks.

 

But you don't have to prove to me that your stage piano's better than mine. Because you won't.

 

Any more than I could prove to you that the CP4 is better.

 

Difference is, I'm not trying to.

Nor will I try. It's just better for me, that's all.

 

 

 

 

[JeffLearman]

I'm not sure I understand the issue people have with the CP4's UI.

 

If you just turn it on, it plays a piano. If you want a different sound, hit a voice category button. Use the scroll wheel to pick a different version of that voice in that category.

 

Want split or layering? Hit the split or layer button and pick a voice, same as above.

 

When you get into editing & saving performances, there's a bit more to it, but it's still pretty straightforward. The main clue is that a performance is the only thing you CAN edit. And yeah, if you want to use one voice (with fx you've tweaked) from one performance, and another voice (as split or layer) from another (that you've tweaked), then you probably have to read the manual to see how COPY works -- or just guess and try it.

 

Maybe I haven't used enough modern keyboards, but that's pretty simple, and I'm having a hard time imagining something simpler. The issue isn't that it isn't simple, just that it isn't terribly flexible. But if you want that flexibility, you get a more complicated keyboard, and the UI won't be simpler!

[allan_evett]

Comparing digital pianos - especially current and somewhat recent models - is highly subjective. The quality of the tones, and the brain>finger>sound connection are strong - across a variety of models. A Kawai MP7 is supplied for my weekly church gig; it's a solid stage piano, and one I'd definitely recommend trying out. But if I was rebuilding a stage rig, I'd choose the CP4 again; simply a personal preference.

 

I owned an RD-700NX for a couple of years; it sounded and played great, both live and recorded. Ultimately, the action wasn't so kind to my hands. But that's another area of subjectivity - as each of us differs physiologically, and in how we play. For particular gigs, my Jupiter50 is the best choice for one-keyboard coverage; and the Roland SN pianos do the job extremely well. I also like the RD-800; very smooth, extremely playable. But as learjeff and I have both discovered with the CP4, Roland also left out some control features on the RD800. As pointed out in another thread, there are several RD-700 series controller features missing, or dumbed-down in the RD-800.

[M_G]

Lekanout,

 

as you told us CP4 users many times now that YOU like the RD800

better I can tell you that my CP4 replaced the MP11 after 8 weeks

of using.

 

Why? Cause I like the CP4 more... (despite quality issues the the MP keybed)

 

We can argument back and forth,

It's simply a matter of taste....

 

My2cent

 

[Mickey Keys]

I'm not sure I understand the issue people have with the CP4's UI.

 

 

Actually, Jeff, as far as you've gone, the way I see it you're bang-on. And that's probably enough for most players.

 

What I want to ultimately do is make some performances with Master Mode enabled so I can control/play a 1 to 4-zone setup on the PC3 FROM the CP4.

 

That is probably going to involve some serious menu diving, guesswork, a pot of coffee and some wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

This is one area where the RD indisputably had the edge in my book. But there isn't any great urgency yet. I'll get to it.

 

Or maybe Yamaha can come up with some kind of CP app for the iPad that would help. . . yeah right. Not holding my breath there.

 

At the end of the day, as you say, if one wants a lot more flexibility, then one probably should consider a workstation . . . oh wait, one already has one

[keyguy]

For Master Mode tips, go to Motifator.com and search "CP4". Also, there are some videos on Yamahasynth.com. These were very helpful to me. FYI, as a lifetime Yamaha user, the CP4 has the best UI on any Yamaha keyboard, bar none. At least you can do layers and splits "on the fly" without having to dig into programming hell...

[Mickey Keys]

For Master Mode tips, go to Motifator.com and search "CP4". Also, there are some videos on Yamahasynth.com. These were very helpful to me.

 

Nice! Thanks Jim! on my way there now.

 

FYI, as a lifetime Yamaha user, the CP4 has the best UI on any Yamaha keyboard, bar none.

 

I'm inclined to believe you about this from my short time with the CP4. However, scares me to think of what went before . . .