Yamaha CP4 - first impressions

[allan_evett]

their Studio Grand patch (based on the Yamaha C7) on the RD700NX is the finest digital piano patch ever made.

I cannot agree.

 

My experience splits the difference: In certain settings, the Studio Grand tone works great.

I noticed this with the RD700NX, a few years back; and it still applies when using my JP-50 on smaller stage gigs. There is both a clarity, and presence that is very effective.

But for overall coverage Yamaha AWM2 is still my go-to, live piano sound. All of the variations presented - from the Motif based, CF III sample to the S6 sample, plus a few, heavily tweaked Voices that combine samples - work equally well.

[Dave Bryce]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, stats mean very little when it comes to playability and overall musical experience.

I agree completely.

 

I can't begin to tell you how many huge (GB) pianos I've played (individial note sampling, no looping, multiple velocities) that have left me completely cold. OTOH, I've played pianos that weren't even close to 100MB in size that I used happily...because they were really well programmed. I'd rather use the piano sound in my MOTIF than any Gigasampler piano I've played to date.

 

To be clear - I don't examine piano samples, or put them under any sort of microscope. I just play them. Either I connect with them, or I don't.

 

I found the pianos in the CP4 to be way playable. I would happily gig with any of them. YMMV.

 

dB

 

 

[Moon Zero Two]

I have both a Kronos 73 and a CP4. Even though the Kronos has two 4 plus gig piano sample sets I prefer the CP4. The CP4 sounds better to me when it comes to pianos. acoustic at least - the kronos rhodes sounds are great.

 

However, I have Ivory installed on a Receptor and the new American grand and the Italian grand are better than either one of them. But I would say the CP and Kronos sound better than the Native instruments pianos.

 

Off topic: I was creating setups in set list for gig Saturday (my first with the Kronos) - a lot of pop stuff and I picked out some brass and flute sounds - some pads and synth leads - in additional to piano and rhodes and CX3 - and I can't help missing some of my favorite Motif sounds like the sweet flute the hybrid brass and a couple of others. Kronos doesn't feel as expressive. I may change my mind and use the CP4 instead...

[allan_evett]

 

....I'd rather use the piano sound in my MOTIF than any Gigasampler piano I've played to date.

 

....I don't examine piano samples, or put them under any sort of microscope. I just play them. Either I connect with them, or I don't.

 

 

That 'connection' is essential - as we're attempting to replicate the experience of playing a highly complex, acoustic instrument. Ivory 2 American D is very playable; it 'connects' well - compared to other gigahog pianos I've tried. But I still use my S90XS live. And I don't expect the CP4 to be a let-down, either. Still have to find one of those to play; perhaps there's a CP4 in Denver by now

 

Possible new marketing slogan for Yamaha DP's: " It's not the size of the sample, it's what we do with it ".

[AnotherScott]

Off topic: I was creating setups in set list for gig Saturday (my first with the Kronos) - a lot of pop stuff and I picked out some brass and flute sounds - some pads and synth leads - in additional to piano and rhodes and CX3 - and I can't help missing some of my favorite Motif sounds like the sweet flute the hybrid brass and a couple of others. Kronos doesn't feel as expressive. I may change my mind and use the CP4 instead...

For some more/better brass/flute options in the Kronos, check out

http://thekronosblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/brass-and-wind-programs.html

[ITGITC]

Ivory 2 American D is very playable; it 'connects' well - compared to other gigahog pianos I've tried.

 

Gigahog?

BWAHAhahahahahaha.

 

That's going to be a new entry in the Urban-Geek Dictionary for sure!

[LX88]

I too had to pass on the most recent of the Roland Supernaturals.

 

Of what I heard the patch I liked was the Concert Grand. It seemed to be the most full sounding and on a lot of it, the fidelity and clarity is actually quite nice .

 

However, I was very picky about the sound of some of the overtones. It just didn't sound like an acoustic instrument to me. But this is just from listening to the RD700GX in stores through headphones.

 

While I wasn't completely sold on the acoustic piano sound, what I really found perplexing were the electric pianos. I couldn't find a Rhodes in the whole lot that seemed to have any warmth. It was all "character".... and I just couldn't make it work for what I want to hear.

 

I will take another listen to the Studio Grand patch. But as I recall it didn't sound as wide open as the Concert Grand did.

 

But ultimately the weight and price of the 700NX did not make me seriously consider it. There is still one at a reasonable price on the Garage Sale. Has it gone anywhere?

 

I am seeing in some of the newer Casio samples that they are wanting to roll off lows and highs so that the EP's will cut through the mix. Personally I don't get it.

 

As far as looping and sampling techniques that are supposedly behind the technology curve, I wouldn't even know how to identify any of it.

 

I only know if ALL of the tones sound good.... not most of them. If they all don't sound good and natural, I will pass.

[allan_evett]

Ivory 2 American D is very playable; it 'connects' well - compared to other gigahog pianos I've tried.

 

Gigahog?

BWAHAhahahahahaha.

 

That's going to be a new entry in the Urban-Geek Dictionary for sure!

 

Glad ya liked that one, Tom. I believe that the variant "Gigahawg" should also be listed..

[scales]

Have any of you CP-4 users figured out how to use the foot controller for the "wah" effect on the Clav? For the life of me I can't figure it out and the manual is not very in depth. The Yamaha sales rep demos this on the Kraft Music Website (CP-4 demo).

[dazzjazz]

I don't have mine accessible right now, but from memory you must select the Wah effect that is Labelled as Pedal Wah, not touch Wah. These are in the MOD category. I imagine that once selected, the Control pedal is already mapped to it, but you can probably tweak centre frequency and depth. Gigging on it tonight, will check it out.

[Moonglow]

I went into my local Guitar Center this afternoon and not surprisingly, no CP-4. So I asked the keyboard tech (term used loosely) if they were going to get one in, to which he replied, "Na, we don't get very many workstations here."

[Michael Wright]

I went into my local Guitar Center this afternoon and not surprisingly, no CP-4. So I asked the keyboard tech (term used loosely) if they were going to get one in, to which he replied, "Na, we don't get very many workstations here."

I went up to L&Mq in Oshawa last week to see what they had. Brian, the fellow I deal with in the keyboard dept, ordered one and will call me when they get their demo. Great guy, great keyboard dept.

[orangefunk]

Just arrived home to find a note to take to the Post Office (which is now closed!). Will let you all know what I think tomorrow!!!

[Aidan]

Doh! Hurry up!

[orangefunk]

Might be a short day at work tomorrow Aidan!

 

[allan_evett]

I went into my local Guitar Center this afternoon and not surprisingly, no CP-4. So I asked the keyboard tech (term used loosely) if they were going to get one in, to which he replied, "Na, we don't get very many workstations here."

 

, indeed ! The Merrillville GC used to be pretty well stocked, keys-wise; but that was 5 - 10 years back. And here I thought my gear access would improve if we head back to NW IN in 2014. Other than downtown Denver GC ( a driving headache from Loveland ), the gear situation out here is pretty dismal. I actually saw, and played a VR-09 for the first time last night; surprisingly enough, it was at a guitar oriented shop near me.

 

Looks like road trips to Sweetwater, or Indy GC might be in my future. Sweetwater's a cool hang though....

[analogholic]

Might be a short day at work tomorrow Aidan!

 

Yeah man, make it REALLY short thank you very much

[orangefunk]

I'll be gnawing at the sellotape in the post office no doubt. will take the trolley to work in the morning..

 

[orangefunk]

OK. Just got the CP4 this afternoon and spent a few hours on it on and off (4hrs).

 

My initial impressions are that the keyboard feel is really nice. Probably not as good as the RD700GX action I had (I don't feel the Yamaha CP4 has the 'escapement' feature) it's also much lighter than my old RD700 too. Nice that the keys are made of wood. The case looks cool too

 

However sound wise I am a bit mixed about the CP4. Maybe Yamaha just isn't my bag because I honestly don't hear any significant difference between this and my old Yamaha P120 and boards of that brethren..

 

Compared with my experience of the Nord Stage 2 piano in the summer, I feel the Yamaha sounds a bit dead in comparison. There isn't that body of sound that you get like the Nord Stage with the sustain engaged.. there doesn't seem to be any soundboard resonance at play here. The Nord just filled me up and inspired me I just don't feel anything with the CP4. They are good sounds no doubt but not really any advance for me. The main advance is the smoothness between velocities barely noticeable. Great recordings too but the blend just doesn't come together for me. YMMV.

 

I was pleased however with the Rhodes 75 sound. That is about the best Rhodes I have heard so far in a digital still some way off but it had great character. Good attack portion and rich sustain. No velocity switches too. now if only the Nord keyboards had a similar concept...

 

I feel the CP4 could be just the ticket for some people but for me I am already coming to the conclusion of returning it (luckily no costs incurred except for return postage!).

 

I am gonna hold out for Nord Stage 3 or Nord Stage 2EX. Different price bracket I know but I really loved that board...

[Moonglow]

Thank you for that review, orangefunk. I had a similar experience with the highly anticipated arrival of my Kronos, only to be disappointed shortly thereafter. A lot of folks connect with Yamaha digital pianos, but I have never been one of them. Like you, I enjoy the character of the Nord pianos so I'm holding out for the next edition of the Stage.

[orangefunk]

I think it just goes to show that we all like different things. For most people, and much better piano players then I will ever be no doubt, I would think the CP4 is gonna be an excellent choice.

 

I just gelled with the Nord Stage 2 and think that will be the way to go but as that is probably gonna be replaced I am going to hold out for that.

 

I just played the CP4 again and I think there is a lot of good stuff happening there. The CFX sample does sound much better than any Yamaha digital so far but I dunno unlike the Nord Stage 2 and Roland RD700GX I am missing some harmonic blend when notes are played together or when the sustain is engaged.

 

I just played that Rhodes 75 again and it is great not quite accurate but as close as they have come so far I think..

[voxpops]

+ 1 on your overall assessment.

 

unlike the Nord Stage 2 and Roland RD700GX I am missing some harmonic blend when notes are played together or when the sustain is engaged.

That was something that I noticed, too. It brought to mind my old FP-4, which was remarkably good at blending, harmonically.

 

 

[Moonglow]

I think it just goes to show that we all like different things. For most people, and much better piano players then I will ever be no doubt, I would think the CP4 is gonna be an excellent choice.....

+1

 

I've heard other musicians play Yamaha DPs, and they sound fantastic. I heard someone play a CP-5 a while back and the clarity was amazing.

[Aidan]

Neil, I think you've confirmed what I feared about the CP4 - that I could end up trading that vibrant, visceral quality of the Nord just to have effectively a more controllable touch. Given what I would lose on selling the NS2, combined with the loss of the option of running a single board on gigs (I can scrape by with the Nord B3 to an extent I just couldn't with the Yamaha) I've decided to avoid the CP4's siren song, hope for an OS upgrade to match the NP2's and await the next Stage.

[orangefunk]

Yeah Aidan, you're probably of a similar taste to me piano wise. I think you do the wise thing. Wish I had just gone with a Stage 2 when I was mulling over it and the SV1 and then the Kronos.. would have made life a lot easier and cheaper!

 

 

[allan_evett]

Neil, I think you've confirmed what I feared about the CP4 - that I could end up trading that vibrant, visceral quality of the Nord just to have effectively a more controllable touch. Given what I would lose on selling the NS2, combined with the loss of the option of running a single board on gigs (I can scrape by with the Nord B3 to an extent I just couldn't with the Yamaha) I've decided to avoid the CP4's siren song, hope for an OS upgrade to match the NP2's and await the next Stage.

 

Interesting that the CP4 is not quite the total package, 'Holy Grail' that it first appeared to be. While I'm sure I'd find it smooth to play, etc., I suspect that it had enough corners trimmed sonically that, as a result, the market impact is not quite as intense as what the CP5 produced.

 

The 'unofficial' word is that there will be no Stage 2 "EX" option, but that Nord is busy at work on the next Stage model - which we'll likely see by 2015. I didn't get the impression that we'd see the Stage 3 (?) at Winter NAMM, though my contact wouldn't rule that out 100%. Maybe they'll spring the concept sometime in 2014, IDK... After seeing the Stage 1 in 2006, the EX a couple years later, then the Stage 2 in 2011, I figured there'd be some breathing room after getting my Stage 2 - plus another EX option, all before hearing of an imminent Stage 3. Guess I figured wrong. Clavia must be feeling some competition in that market..

It's aggravating, in that I purchased the Stage 2 for certain things, but also planned on an "EX" upgrade to address a couple of other things. My Stage 2, 76 is out on rental for much of December, and the client has indicated an interest in purchase; considering the above, I just might do that.

 

Like the Roland SuperNatural tones in my JP50 the Nord pianos have had a place in my rig, and certainly fit well for particular tunes; but Yamaha has always provided a broad, overall coverage for anything I play - from a late 80's TX-1P to an S90XS, at present. For a piano gig I'd take the S90XS out over my Stage 2 every time, the only exception being an extremely tight space - which, actually, the JP-50 pianos can handle fine.

[nadroj]

I'm not saying anything new here, but it's the sort of thing you just can't win with unless you try it yourself and decide what you like. I read here "the new CP4 [or whatever] has one of the best piano sounds since [keyboard]." I recently spent ~45 minutes inside my local Yamaha/Casio dealers trying things, including the new Privias, etc, and while I was impressed; meh.

 

Same goes for the SuperNATURAL - some people say they like the studio grand - I found it completely unusable. Concert Grand was all I could see myself using live. Yet there have been times when I've let other keyboard players use my RD700 at smaller gigs; I'd go on after their slot to get things set up and find that they'd been using Bright Grand or Bright Concert piano patches - patches I'd never dream of using live, but there they were, using them in the same gig. And to be honest, until I went up after and visually saw what they were using, I didn't know that they were using anything different. Hell, after tweaking it to pieces, I'm getting a better piano sound out of my wee Juno Di (taking velocity differences into consideration) than I used to get out of my RD!

[orangefunk]

I think even in the shop its hard to tell. I spent about 8hrs on and off with mine at home playing it through Beyer Dynamic DT770 Pros and Adam A7 speakers and at first I found the experience completely cold then I warmed to it a little as I got used to the action and touch but still wasn't exactly bowled over by it.

 

Mine was sent back 20 mins ago. Post is expensive over this side of the water ($60!) but I think I made the right decision overall.

 

 

[Theo Verelst]

You should adjust the type and paramters of the main chorus, and reverb, and the per layer mic-effect extensively. It can get those warm sounds. Trow in a layer, and you can even go Steinway-ish with it. You wouldn't think so from the often warbly and slightly off-sounding presets, but it can. And then it can sound full-88 and full range (real low and highs), too, and then the eq starts to act powerful, but you'd need to know about mid-low and reverb mixing, it isn't like as easy as selecting a sample, I know because I tried, it just doesn't give the good stuff away. Also, the pretty unique Spectral Component Modeling can give really strong and extremely sustained sounds, even on very accurate monitoring, and best of all, especially after the apparently necessary sound adaptions the Lexicon is very satisfied with it and becomes very alive with the sound (even with the rom patches)...

 

T.

[Home]

I've just returned to playing my cp50, having spent a long time in the land of the nord electro 3hp. While I love the nord sounds, nothing (IMHO) compares to the yamaha feel. I've owned many yamaha pianos ( p100, p150, p80, cp50) and, they've all felt great to me yet, I still wander for some reason. I still have my old p150 set up in my music room and even that still feels great. I don't know but I'm guessing that, yamaha makes there own keyboard mechanisms?? I've grown to absolutely despise fatar!! At least the one they use in the 3hp! It feels cheap and after less than a year feels like it's loosening! So , I'm happy to be back in the land of yamaha.......your review has me yearning for the CP4 !! Thanks