Yamaha CP4 - first impressions

[Aidan]

Edit > Part > RcvSwitch > (scroll down...) Sus "on". Save the performance.

[88rm88]

Thank you Adian!

[Carl C.]

Hello. Long time lurker, first time poster. Thought it's time to jump in and say hi. Ive been playing piano for almost 40 years and had all kinds of different acoustic piano my whole life. Ive only had a few digitals in the past, and my current one is a CP300 since 2006 and been happy with it. I gig with it, practice, record, write, almost everything with it. It was time to buy a new piano as the CP300 is rather heavy, issues with LCD lately, and I hardly use the onboard speakers at home as I like the sound of my old JBL 4122's. Time for a change.

 

The past year I started looking at the RD700nx and a few others in the $2,500 range. I was trying to force myself to like the RD700 because the action, setup, quality, are so great, but I just couldn't get a piano sound that was pleasing or pure. Now, in comes the CP4 and RD800. The CP4 is a dream come true for piano sounds which is my primary focus. The action could not be any more authentic for a stage piano in my opinion. Then I tried the RD800, beautiful to look at, easy navigation, great action, I really wanted to buy it. Again, just could not get a great piano sound even with tone control and other updates. In the end the CP4 beat out the acoustic sound of the RD800. The action on the CP4 was more a little more authentic as well probably due to the wooden keys. The RD800 has so many great features and extra sound for stage use that it is just shy of being a workstation. But it's that pure piano sound and great action that I was looking for and the CP4 checked the most important boxes for me. Not that RD800 isnt an amazing piano, you just have to know what you are really looking for in a stage piano. The real good news is that I took advantage of 15% off president day sale and grabbed it for $1,870. This is certainly the right price for this exceptional stage piano. Ive been playing it for 10 days and I am finding it to far exceed what I originally loved about it. The navigation and editing are so easy to adjust reverb, damper res, velocity, that I can dial in such an organic rich piano sound with ease If your main focus is piano voice in a stage piano I highly recommend looking at the CP4. Spend some time with it if you can and compare to the others. I think you will find the CP4 superior for piano sound and slightly better action than the competition. If you can get for under $2,000 it's just absolutely a no-brainer.

 

Now my next step is to replace the old JBL with something complimentary to the CP4. That's another topic and another post!

 

 

[Theo Verelst]

On non-flattering or in the direction of "sterile" monitoring (or simply good speakers) you can add more depth and warmth to it by adding a Lexicon unit. I didn't try all, but some pianos out there (and probably most software) don't work all to well with the studio reverb from the first hour, which is a bad sign.

 

However, the CP4 can be nicely enhanced, made much deeper or wider, or simply a little nicer with a cheap Lexicon MX200 (or 300 or 400 (= only $300)). Worth a try!

 

T.

 

[Carl C.]

On non-flattering or in the direction of "sterile" monitoring (or simply good speakers) you can add more depth and warmth to it by adding a Lexicon unit. I didn't try all, but some pianos out there (and probably most software) don't work all to well with the studio reverb from the first hour, which is a bad sign.

 

However, the CP4 can be nicely enhanced, made much deeper or wider, or simply a little nicer with a cheap Lexicon MX200 (or 300 or 400 (= only $300)). Worth a try!

 

T.

 

Hi Theo. Thank you for response. Are you suggesting a Lexicon is good for all digital pianos? I really don't think I need a Lexicon unit with my CP4. I can adjust the CP4 and achieve those deeper and warmer effects effortlessly. Sounds beautiful. That's what I love about it. Do you use a CP4 too?

[bryanstern]

Carl

Great posting. Who did you buy the CP4 from, may i ask?

[Marillo]

I'm loving my CP4 but I don't think the main piano sound is as nice as the Roland Supernatural stuff. I find the Yammy a little brittle and not as well rounded...I'm kind of aware I'm playing a recording of an instrument if that makes sense.

 

And yet even with that 'brightness', the top end is a little weak IMO...now that sounds like a paradox but in classical pieces where the mid/low range is busy it gets lost in the mix. For reference I'm talking about the Allegro mid-section in the slow movement of Mozart's Piano Concerto no.20 in D minor.

 

However - it's still a very good sample and coupled with the unsurpassed action, the light weight, shorter length (mod wheels above the keyboard AND the very very useful and excellent additional voices the CP4 wins out.

[Mark Schmieder]

I'm leaning strongly towards this DP now, having finally made it down the street to try the Kawai MP4 and MP10. I didn't turn them on to hear their built-in sounds, as this wouldn't affect my decision (I need something for Pianoteq) and as I mostly wanted to compare vs. similarly priced uprights in the store.

 

The MP10 was awful in terms of my personal preferences; not sure if the third level of sophistication in the MP11 and VPC1 will be that much better. The keys were very wobbly from side to side. The MP4 was worse still, having little weight to it but that one isn't wooden.

 

All the same, the MP11/VPC1 specs are more advanced than the CP4's as they also use wood for the black keys and the new generation of the RM action does show a lot of hope. But now I'm going to look into their heavier non-portable units which use a more advanced action than the MP series or the VPC and aren't much more in price. I won't be gigging with it anyway.

 

I keep coming back to the CP4 though, because it does address ALL of my concerns about the CP5 that kept me from buying that model, except for one fatal omission, which is the lack of input jacks for tri-pedals. Thus I'm dragging my feet on this decision.

 

Too bad CME is the only company that ever made MIDI-based tri-pedals, and they were unreliable. I guess Yamaha doesn't want to cut into their higher-end DP sales with the CP-series.

 

Maybe it's time to take another look at those and then see if there is something equivalent to the CP-4 that is less portable, not a whole lot more in price, and with a similar or better keybed along with proper tri-pedals.

 

As for real uprights, I would only want an Upright Grand (can't stand any other type of upright), but I don't think those can be MIDI-fitted like some grand pianos can be, so it's really hard to decide for studio work at home whether it's best to get an acoustic upright or a DP triggering Pianoteq etc. Yamaha's U-series is nice and affordable. Even so, upright grands don't sound the same as regular grands.

 

Can't remember if the AvantGrand was a hybrid from Yamaha (a real piano with MIDI capabilities), but it isn't cheap. So I keep hoping a vendor who doesn't make regular pianos and thus doesn't have to partially cripple their DP's will come along and deliver the goods, whether as a DP or as a MIDI controller.

[Carl C.]

I'm loving my CP4 but I don't think the main piano sound is as nice as the Roland Supernatural stuff. I find the Yammy a little brittle and not as well rounded...I'm kind of aware I'm playing a recording of an instrument if that makes sense.

 

And yet even with that 'brightness', the top end is a little weak IMO...now that sounds like a paradox but in classical pieces where the mid/low range is busy it gets lost in the mix. For reference I'm talking about the Allegro mid-section in the slow movement of Mozart's Piano Concerto no.20 in D minor.

 

However - it's still a very good sample and coupled with the unsurpassed action, the light weight, shorter length (mod wheels above the keyboard AND the very very useful and excellent additional voices the CP4 wins out.

 

Hi there Marillion,

 

Glad you love the CP4. Funny, now I found the SN sound of the mid/high range of RD700-800 to have an odd hollow tinny-bell tone that I just could not tolerate . I find the CP4 to be much more well rounded especially with so many edit features and sound options I can dial in just what I want to hear. However, I am told the SN is "technically" superior.

 

 

[Carl C.]

Carl

Great posting. Who did you buy the CP4 from, may i ask?

 

http://www.americanmusical.com. They matched guitar center's promo

 

[mwf]

just bought one of these, got it today, its excellent, the keyboard is basically the same as on the yamaha clavinova home DP's.

 

I have a question about recording the piano, it has a wav recorder built in of course, but is this the best possible way to record it to get the best sound quality/detail etc.. I notice you cant adjust the recording volume, only the master volume, so you have no idea if you are clipping the audio, how loud can I play the instrument without it clipping whilst recording? You can play softly of course and never clip, but then the recording volume is low then, if you play very dynamically the recording is hard to get right, I have made a recording on it, but it clips when I play loudly.

 

Thought I would share a quick abrupt ending (something went wrong with the usb stick connection to piano) demo of the AP3 sound on the CP4

 

https://soundcloud.com/markfowler-2/yamaha-cp4-cf6-get-lucky

[jazzdoc52]

Just got my cp4 on ebay brand new in unopened package for 1950. Not as good as 1875' of course , but I'm happy. Delivery tomorrow.. Will give my thoughts this weekend.

[Carl C.]

Congratulation to you both MWF and Jazzdoc52. I can't begin to tell you how pleased I am with the CP4. Ive become so connected with this piano, the combination of the sound and action is truly remarkable. BUT not at first! A little advice: don't be discourage if you can't get the perfect sound in the first five minutes after you unbox it. You might think you just bought a P105 with great action for $2,200 (or $1,950). Stop right there! This is truly an advanced professional stage piano that requires time to to get acquainted with all the features and outstanding editing function to achieve your desired sounds. Consider all the presets as only "suggestions" from Yamaha and then start to dig into the editing - you will be amazed at what you can pull out of this piano for sounds. Best of all, it's fairly easy to do. To fully enjoy it you MUST take advantage of all it has to offer. It is not plug-and-play IMO and thats a good thing. I feel bad for the few folks who bought the CP4 and returned it within days. You really missed out.

[orangefunk]

Congratulation to you both MWF and Jazzdoc52. I can't begin to tell you how pleased I am with the CP4. Ive become so connected with this piano, the combination of the sound and action is truly remarkable. BUT not at first! A little advice: don't be discourage if you can't get the perfect sound in the first five minutes after you unbox it. You might think you just bought a P105 with great action for $2,200 (or $1,950). Stop right there! This is truly an advanced professional stage piano that requires time to to get acquainted with all the features and outstanding editing function to achieve your desired sounds. Consider all the presets as only "suggestions" from Yamaha and then start to dig into the editing - you will be amazed at what you can pull out of this piano for sounds. Best of all, it's fairly easy to do. To fully enjoy it you MUST take advantage of all it has to offer. It is not plug-and-play IMO and thats a good thing. I feel bad for the few folks who bought the CP4 and returned it within days. You really missed out.

 

Not wanting to upset others but I found it to sound as dead as a doornail. I spent many hours with editing before returning it and I just felt the lack of soundboard resonance was the real factor... not much you can do about that...

[voxpops]

Congratulation to you both MWF and Jazzdoc52. I can't begin to tell you how pleased I am with the CP4. Ive become so connected with this piano, the combination of the sound and action is truly remarkable. BUT not at first! A little advice: don't be discourage if you can't get the perfect sound in the first five minutes after you unbox it. You might think you just bought a P105 with great action for $2,200 (or $1,950). Stop right there! This is truly an advanced professional stage piano that requires time to to get acquainted with all the features and outstanding editing function to achieve your desired sounds. Consider all the presets as only "suggestions" from Yamaha and then start to dig into the editing - you will be amazed at what you can pull out of this piano for sounds. Best of all, it's fairly easy to do. To fully enjoy it you MUST take advantage of all it has to offer. It is not plug-and-play IMO and thats a good thing. I feel bad for the few folks who bought the CP4 and returned it within days. You really missed out.

 

Not wanting to upset others but I found it to sound as dead as a doornail. I spent many hours with editing before returning it and I just felt the lack of soundboard resonance was the real factor... not much you can do about that...

Same here. Interesting that Carl C used this phrase: "You might think you just bought a P105 with great action for $2,200." That thought did actually cross my mind when I had the CP4. But for me, it was the lack of resonances, the very obvious stretching, and the limited dynamics that prompted me to return it. I felt that I was buying something that was a really nice version of a 1998 DP (with a lovely action).

[Jazz+]

And what is so great about the action? I played the CP4 last week and didn't notice anything unusual or amazing about it.

[Carl C.]

Congratulation to you both MWF and Jazzdoc52. I can't begin to tell you how pleased I am with the CP4. Ive become so connected with this piano, the combination of the sound and action is truly remarkable. BUT not at first! A little advice: don't be discourage if you can't get the perfect sound in the first five minutes after you unbox it. You might think you just bought a P105 with great action for $2,200 (or $1,950). Stop right there! This is truly an advanced professional stage piano that requires time to to get acquainted with all the features and outstanding editing function to achieve your desired sounds. Consider all the presets as only "suggestions" from Yamaha and then start to dig into the editing - you will be amazed at what you can pull out of this piano for sounds. Best of all, it's fairly easy to do. To fully enjoy it you MUST take advantage of all it has to offer. It is not plug-and-play IMO and thats a good thing. I feel bad for the few folks who bought the CP4 and returned it within days. You really missed out.

 

Not wanting to upset others but I found it to sound as dead as a doornail. I spent many hours with editing before returning it and I just felt the lack of soundboard resonance was the real factor... not much you can do about that...

 

You have to work on parameter settings such as "StikPos" and "Reso" and "keyoff". It brings it to life.

[Carl C.]

And what is so great about the action? I played the CP4 last week and didn't notice anything unusual or amazing about it.

 

For a "digital" piano under $2,000 - Im very impressed. But hey, it's not for everyone. Some like Nord's action just as much

[Carl C.]

Keep in mind folks I rave about the CP4 based on what you get for the price. This is not a MP11 or Nord Stage 2. However, buying a CP4 you are comparatively saving $1,000-$3000. Im not wealthy guy! I find the CP4 very competitive. It's simply a great sounding and highly playable professional DP at a fair price.

[mwf]

I think it's good piano for the price, got mine for just under £1500 with a decent stand and sheet music stand. The touch is heavy I will say, and springy in a sense. It's the exact same keyboard as the GH 3 natural wood used in current clavinovas clp400 series. The sound is slightly better in every way to my Roland hp507, which cost me £2300 last year. I need some decent affordable headphones now, I run it through my stagepas 300 currently which is not ideal, but still sounds great. I need to double check the dynamic range some people are complaining about, I have to strongly disagree with it sounding dead as a doornail though, for the price it beats the competition, I love the ap3 dark woody texture most currently, mix it with slow strings 3 and it's a really nice rich sound.

 

This is the first pro stage piano I have owned, I sold my new p255 to get the cp4, I am not disappointed in the decision. I think extra reverb brings the piano samples alive, not sure what equaliser settings to use though, there are 5 sliders and moving the first couple up really adds bass and umpf.

 

[Carl C.]

Love the the AP3 (S6) too. It rich and dark. Beautifully haunting for sure.

[Carl C.]

@orangefunk and voxpops: What did you end buying in place of your CP4? Not picking a fight Im just curious to see what others prefer, especially with latest offerings from Kawai and Roland. Some real nice stuff there. i.e. MP11 - wow! but HEAVY. exact same as my CP300.

[orangefunk]

Congratulation to you both MWF and Jazzdoc52. I can't begin to tell you how pleased I am with the CP4. Ive become so connected with this piano, the combination of the sound and action is truly remarkable. BUT not at first! A little advice: don't be discourage if you can't get the perfect sound in the first five minutes after you unbox it. You might think you just bought a P105 with great action for $2,200 (or $1,950). Stop right there! This is truly an advanced professional stage piano that requires time to to get acquainted with all the features and outstanding editing function to achieve your desired sounds. Consider all the presets as only "suggestions" from Yamaha and then start to dig into the editing - you will be amazed at what you can pull out of this piano for sounds. Best of all, it's fairly easy to do. To fully enjoy it you MUST take advantage of all it has to offer. It is not plug-and-play IMO and thats a good thing. I feel bad for the few folks who bought the CP4 and returned it within days. You really missed out.

 

Not wanting to upset others but I found it to sound as dead as a doornail. I spent many hours with editing before returning it and I just felt the lack of soundboard resonance was the real factor... not much you can do about that...

 

You have to work on parameter settings such as "StikPos" and "Reso" and "keyoff". It brings it to life.

 

I'd be interested to hear that. I still think GEMs pianos from the mid 2000s had a great sound.. esp the resonance/soundboard stuff.

[orangefunk]

@orangefunk and voxpops: What did you end buying in place of your CP4? Not picking a fight Im just curious to see what others prefer, especially with latest offerings from Kawai and Roland. Some real nice stuff there. i.e. MP11 - wow! but HEAVY. exact same as my CP300.

 

I really wanted to like the CP, esp at the price it was, but I was coming from the RD700GX and wanted something different. As I had already used a Nord Stage 2 in gigs and recordings I knew it would work for me.. although the price was high and the keyboard action was nothing fancy (though I actually really like it!).

 

All goes to show different strokes for different folks.

[voxpops]

@orangefunk and voxpops: What did you end buying in place of your CP4?

I (re)purchased a PX-5S, added a Surface Pro on the battery cover, and loaded up Pianoteq and VB3.

 

Currently waiting to see what Kawai brings to Musikmesse.

[Carl C.]

Currently waiting to see what Kawai brings to Musikmesse.

 

I like the sound of Kawai very much. In fact, the new MP7 will probably take away some potential CP4 buyers. We can assume great sound, a plethera of features and voices, very good action RH2 or better, and most likely under $2,000. Oh, and all the string, damper, soundboard, wall shaking, dish rattling, hair raising, planets aligning, dog head turning, kind of resonance any pianist could ever ask for... unlike the CP4 of course. .

 

Kidding aside, I always have an open mind and would love to demo MP7 when it comes out (good bet on Musikmesse). You never know, just because I love Yamaha, does not mean I'm brand loyal.

[voxpops]

I had the MP6 for a while. It was excellent value. If the APs and the finger/sound connection had been slightly more refined, I would have kept it. As it was, I had an FP-7F at home, and I just found the Roland more expressive, even though the basic tone of the Kawai was clearer and more piano-like. If the MP7 is more of a lightweight MP11, then I'll be sorely tempted. But these days, my back really isn't up to circa-50lb boards, and I'm looking for the best weight/sound/action compromise I can get. Currently, the Casio/Pianoteq combination seems pretty hard to beat.

 

Incidentally, I sold a Nord Piano in anticipation of the CP4, and I think that colored my judgment of the Yamaha somewhat. I was hoping for pianos with the quality of the top three Nord offerings, and it just didn't get there for me. However, I also found the NP's action to be limiting, and so I decided not to go back to Nord for the time being. I actually find the Casio's action to be more capable of subtle expression than the Fatar action in the Nord.

[Aidan]

Coming back to the NS2 after some time now on my CP40, I do find the action way too light on the Nord, and that thin top really gets to me. I'm pretty happy with how the Yamaha is working out for me. YMMV, as always.

[orangefunk]

For me its not that its too light but too sensitive and too easy to play harder than I would like too at times. Seems not a lot one can do about that although someone did say routing MIDI to itself and using local off allowed for different velocity curves kinda odd.

 

On the thinness in the top octaves I have not really thought about it too much though I do think it kinda mirrors my experiences of playing 5ft/6ft Yamaha grands so I think they got that sound spot on. The bottom end of the Bright Grand actually has an upright quality to it and I like that.

[Dana.]

I haven't been able to compare the NS2 and NP2 side by side -- actually, I've yet to play the NP2; neither GC nor SA have had one on the floor -- but I'm curious to know if the NP2 is weighted any heavier than the NS2. Aidan, do you know? I can't remember if you had the NP or NP2. Who else has played both? Dave Ferris?

 

While the Fatar action (TP40L?) certainly isn't the best hammer action going, I do find it comfortable and enjoyable to play, and sufficiently expressive; it's definitely better than the TP100. Maybe it's because I'm not a "serious" piano player.