Theo Verelst Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 The sample stretch filter build in every sampler that doesn't just store notes every key and velocity-step, has mathematical/signal processing properties, i.e. it has a "sound" effect of it's own. It may not sound that way, but it's a subject of it's own how much delay such a stretch filter requires, and what the effect of it on frequency integrity and harmonic distortion is. Sigh. Just storing a long sample of piano notes isn't the main objective for good digital instrument designers, because that only works if you strike on note. As soon as more notes are struck the influencing of the strings which are resonating on each other (and ***NOT*** some lame or good short time reverb) have all kinds of harmonic and slight timing effects that cannot be captured in normal samples. Prepared samples paired with proper processing can do a reasonable job of freeing a DP from it's "rompler" effect (even though some instruments mainly known as rompler under the hood are more than that). Also, don't forget, the CP4 does harmonic interpolation, which makes for an incredible more varying sound character than even a multi-level sample can provide. Needless to say it doesn't suffice to add some FFT pre-processing (with it's likely side-effects) or a simple filter to create a decent harmonic interpolation that somewhat convincingly works in practice, samples probably need to be properly prepared, or it is possible there are not just standard samples in the machine. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Linguini Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Ok. Wow. Mine just arrived a couple of hours ago. (Thank God, because if FedEx had missed today's delivery, there's another big storm coming Sunday night/Monday, so who knows when I'd have seen it.) Anyway -- for a relatively light-weight DP, the action is just phenomenal. Extremely precise, better than any other DP I've played, and some acoustics. The pianos -- well, I wasn't quite sure what to make of them at first. Even the CFX wasn't quite as rich as I expected, until I fiddled around with the reverb (like minimizing it to almost nothing), and then the beauty started to emerge. I'm still not sure how it compares to the Kawai yet -- I've been banging on the MP6 in the house now for over a year and that's what I'm used to, so I think I just need to give this a chance. Plus, it's going to be my gigging board, so it won't see much time in the house anyway; just going to have to get the right live mix and I think it will be good. However it compares to the MP6, one good rip through I Don't Like Mondays was all I needed to know that I like it. EP's -- the few I messed with so far I really like, especially the Legends in the EP3 bank. Not sure about the CP80's and CP88's, though - they sound a little funky in the low registers, and I don't mean that in a good way. Only pulled up one organ so far, and that was by accident, because I never use them live. But it was pretty nice, better than anything on the Kurz or the MP6. Got a gig tonight, but unfortunately there's no time to get all my sounds set up, so it's the Kurz again. I see many hours tomorrow digging through lots of sounds and setting up performances. Oh yeah, and there's the weight -- while obviously more cumbersome than the 25-lb Kurz, it's a whole lot more manageable than the 46-lb Kawai. I definitely made the right choice. D-10; M50; SP4-7; SP6 I'm a fairly accomplished hack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 sleepngbear, I think you made the wise choice, the CP4 action is THE most effortless for fast jazz improv ... and it has the better sound presence behavior for live performance. It's Rhodes are great too. Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marillo Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 The greatest compliment I can pay the CP4 is that my playing has never been better since I owned it (I play classical). I can practice scales/arpeggios/exercises on the CP4 and it translates to me playing better on the acoustic grand I'm lucky enough to have access to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Linguini Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 sleepngbear, I think you made the wise choice, the CP4 action is THE most effortless for fast jazz improv ... and it has the better sound presence behavior for live performance. It's Rhodes are great too. I've gotten to spend several hours with it now today, and I cannot disagree. I don't know why, but everything sounds better today than it did yesterday when I first unboxed it. I don't do jazz myself, but but I do have plenty of opportunities to solo; because it's with my duo, I don't have to mimic recordings and can stretch out once in awhile, and the touch really is inspiring. I also stumbled on the Rhodes sound I've been looking for for forever - the 71 Rhodes Drive. Layer a Soft Pad on top and it's just dreamy. Lots of nice, tasty sounds to plow through. The greatest compliment I can pay the CP4 is that my playing has never been better since I owned it (I play classical). I can practice scales/arpeggios/exercises on the CP4 and it translates to me playing better on the acoustic grand I'm lucky enough to have access to. Again, I completely agree. I'm not a classical pianist by any stretch. But my fingers just want to dance on these keys. I can't remember the last time a keyboard felt like this. D-10; M50; SP4-7; SP6 I'm a fairly accomplished hack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16251 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Yamaha FP4 Stage rebate Offer HERE! AvantGrand N2 | ES520 | Gallien-Krueger MK & MP | https://soundcloud.com/pete36251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 If I understood it correctly, each sample is mapped to three consecutive notes. The default is to map it to the unison note and the one above and below. The + setting maps the sample to the unison and the next two higher notes, and the - setting maps it to the unison and the next two lower notes. I don't think that is correct. For one thing, that would mean that only one out of three notes would sound any different when comparing, say, the default map to the + map. And one third of the keys would sound identical in all three variations. Instead, I think *all* notes are shifted from where they are in the default assignment, which leads to the + version (all notes stretched up 1/2 step from default location) sounding brighter and the - version (all notes pitch shifted down) sounding duller. You could be right, though that would be even more useless (not having any samples play at their unison value.) But it might reduce the change in tone when changing zones. And actually, it was "Avery" who answered. He sort of answered it twice; the first answer sounds like your interpretation and the second sounds like mine. St = Stereo Mn = Mono MW = Modulation Wheel (programmed in the performance to alter the sound) + = keybanks pich-shifted positive (up) - = keybanks pitch-shifted negative (down) In the case where not every note is sampled, the original key is tuned (pitch-shifted in half steps) either up or down to reach the next sampled note. The result is a difference in certain timbre and character aspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 The piano took me a bit of getting used to also. But then, so does every piano, I think. Well, not some! But all digitals. The "Break in" period for me didn't last long at all. I wonder how long it'll be before I think my trusty ol' MR76 sounds like crap. It'll take longer than it otherwise would, because I often leave it set up at home when the CP4 is left ready to gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Thought y'all'd get a kick out of this: [video:youtube] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polkahero Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 So. . .some of the piano patches have "StFl" after the name. What is that supposed to represent? I'm not hearing a lot of difference from the main stereo patches. '57 Hammond B-3, '60 Hammond A100, Leslie 251, Leslie 330, Leslie 770, Leslie 145, Hammond PR-40 Trek II UC-1A Alesis QSR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 No idea. Try asking at http://yamahasynth.com . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2591637/Re_Any_CP4_owners_know_what_St Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polkahero Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2591637/Re_Any_CP4_owners_know_what_St '57 Hammond B-3, '60 Hammond A100, Leslie 251, Leslie 330, Leslie 770, Leslie 145, Hammond PR-40 Trek II UC-1A Alesis QSR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 If I understood it correctly, each sample is mapped to three consecutive notes. The default is to map it to the unison note and the one above and below. The + setting maps the sample to the unison and the next two higher notes, and the - setting maps it to the unison and the next two lower notes. I don't think that is correct. For one thing, that would mean that only one out of three notes would sound any different when comparing, say, the default map to the + map. And one third of the keys would sound identical in all three variations. Instead, I think *all* notes are shifted from where they are in the default assignment, which leads to the + version (all notes stretched up 1/2 step from default location) sounding brighter and the - version (all notes pitch shifted down) sounding duller. The easiest example to imagine is a piano with all 88 notes sampled. Normal, the C sample is used for C. In +, the B sample is stretched up and used for C. In -, the C# sample is pitch shifted down and used for C. But even without all 88 notes being sampled, "real" and "stretched" notes can be shifted up or down the same way. After giving your assertion more thought, it doesn't make sense, unless the shift is more than the number of notes each sample is mapped to -- and I don't think that's the case. Not that I understand how Yamaha's sound engine works, and what role "Harmonic Component Modeling" takes in their acoustic pianos. Earlier, I said CP4 was modeled and got shot down, and I took someone's word for it. But just today I read from Bad Mister that the CP4 pianos do use HCM. Whatever that means. But I was clearly wrong to imply that it doesn't involve sampling, because otherwise the + and - wouldn't make ANY sense. Er, not to me, not yet, anyway. The EP's are touted as being modeled, yet you can very clearly hear zone discontinuities that I associate with sampling. The AP's might too but I haven't noticed it (though I don't think I've listened for it either.) Ah who knows. I like playing it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana. Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Does anyone have a patch list for this? There doesn't seem to be one included with the download. :idk [video:youtube] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Seriously, The 'Jump' patch is amazing. IMO, That type of sound has always been a weakness for Yamaha. That whole sound set package sounds great. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Keys Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Does anyone have a patch list for this? There doesn't seem to be one included with the download. :idk It's not in the owners' manual. Look for the Data List. -Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyguy Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Does anyone have a patch list for this? There doesn't seem to be one included with the download. :idk [video:youtube] I was wondering the same thing... Jim Wells Tallahassee, FL www.pureplatinumband.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana. Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Does anyone have a patch list for this? There doesn't seem to be one included with the download. :idk It's not in the owners' manual. Look for the Data List. I'm talking about the custom sounds designed by the guy in the video, not the CP4's stock sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suppport Guy Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 So. . .some of the piano patches have "StFl" after the name. What is that supposed to represent? I'm not hearing a lot of difference from the main stereo patches. ST= Stretch tuning FL = Flat EQ (no eq) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Keys Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Does anyone have a patch list for this? There doesn't seem to be one included with the download. :idk It's not in the owners' manual. Look for the Data List. I'm talking about the custom sounds designed by the guy in the video, not the CP4's stock sounds. Oh, that!!! Sorry about that Chief . . . I could swear there was something... Nope, nothing in my download either. Sorry guys. -Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Well there is a nice rebate offered. I got the e-mail from Yamaha yesterday. I didn't know Chuck Levell was a Yamaha guy now. He endorsed Korg for years. "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 So. . .some of the piano patches have "StFl" after the name. What is that supposed to represent? I'm not hearing a lot of difference from the main stereo patches. ST= Stretch tuning FL = Flat EQ (no eq) are you sure St doesn't mean stereo, like the yamaha guys say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Linguini Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Well there is a nice rebate offered. I got the e-mail from Yamaha yesterday. I didn't know Chuck Levell was a Yamaha guy now. He endorsed Korg for years. Damn, I just bought mine on Jan 29!! D-10; M50; SP4-7; SP6 I'm a fairly accomplished hack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Keys Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Well there is a nice rebate offered. I got the e-mail from Yamaha yesterday. I didn't know Chuck Levell was a Yamaha guy now. He endorsed Korg for years. Yeah, I got a DBR10 powered speaker ... That was for a November buy. Sometimes I think I might rather have the cash. However, we'll see...First gig with it comes this weekend. -Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I got the email and wasn't really paying attention at first but that's not bad. I think I can one $100.00 over cost. "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Linguini Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 So it's been just over a week now with the new CP4. I have not fed it through the big PA yet, only the Mackie MR6mk3's (through a mixer with the drum machine, but EQ'd flat). So far I'm extremely satisfied with the action, the sounds, the whole package, and I cannot wait to get it out on its first gig in a couple of weeks. Question to other owners out there: do you also find that this board is at its absolute happiest when you're beating the ever-loving hell out of it? The more I play it, the more accustomed I'm getting to the feel of it, and gradually hammering on it harder and harder. Today I was playing the piano intro to Elton John's 'Tonight' and really laid into some of the heavier chord passages a little harder than usual, and it's like the board suddenly came alive with a depth and fullness that I hadn't heard before. Having been born and raised on the accordion, I probably have a lighter touch than some other keyboardists (don't know for sure, just guessing), definitely lighter than bona fide pianists, so I don't typically play that heavy-handed ... not to mention being a bit concerned in the back of my mind that I could also break something. Now I'm starting to wonder if I've been missing something all these years. Curious to hear other owners' perceptions. D-10; M50; SP4-7; SP6 I'm a fairly accomplished hack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesG Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 I read elsewhere that: "I believe the "StFl" is a stereo (St = stereo) sample with standard tuning (Fl = flat) Those without the "Fl" are "stretched tuned" (as most musicians/piano technicians prefer for acoustic piano)" (From Bad Mister, I think he is Suppport Guy here) Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3 Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85, DX9 Roland: VR-09, RD-800 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Keys Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 The more I play it, the more accustomed I'm getting to the feel of it, and gradually hammering on it harder and harder. Today I was playing the piano intro to Elton John's 'Tonight' and really laid into some of the heavier chord passages a little harder than usual, and it's like the board suddenly came alive with a depth and fullness that I hadn't heard before. "Tonight" is a favorite of mine but I haven't played it in a while ... Must try it on my CP4... Meanwhile, I can relate because a couple of weeks ago I was trying the piano intro for "Captain Jack" from the Songs In The Attic live album - Joel really lays into the left hand octaves on that one - and heard a similar response. -Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I just spent an hour on the CP4. The only thing that bugged me at all is the key travel felt shorter than I am used to. Overall still a killer board. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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