Crumar Mojo Review - Gig Tested

[WheelHead]

There'll be a review coming soon....

 

Found a brief review here though

 

http://www.norduserforum.com/nord-c1-c2-c2d-organ-forum-f13/nord-c2d-press-release-and-pics-t2140-70.html

 

Always interesting these posts with people "trying" or "had the opportunity" then slamming an instrument (any brand) with anomalous problems that crop up.

 

This reviewer has had more trouble and technical breakdowns with his chance to try the HC than I have ever had in 3 years owning one playing daily.

 

Trying to understand how Windows Embedded is crashing, also, according to the remarks.

 

Not enough information in the review and the situation of the instrument-try for me.

 

Windows Embedded usually never crashes. Used industrially for critical (and expensive) products.

 

 

W.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Adan]

And yes, when I get all this stuff set up in one place, we should do a SF Bay area forum hang / clonewheel playing session.

 

That would be fun. Would love to play the Numa and the Mojo. I'm sure Brian Ho would make it, Michelle, Mark, maybe a few others.

[mate stubb]

Kurz KB3? Kronos?

I like the idea of perhaps a companion piece, covering those that aren't full clonewheels in ergonomics, but still lay claim to clonewheel emulation. Kurzweil KB3 in a PC3K, Kronos 61's CX3, and Roland Jupiter 80 come to mind

 

As long as they don't pollute the clone shootout with these extra boards - it's ambitious enough with the proposed lineup already!

[mobi]

Also working on software list. But for hardware, any other must-includes?

 

another vote for including Kurzweil's PC3 new KB3 mode,

 

and maybe also using a Ventilator as A/B reference to compare internal leslie sims

 

 

[Dglavko]

Also working on software list. But for hardware, any other must-includes?

 

another vote for including Kurzweil's PC3 new KB3 mode,

 

and maybe also using a Ventilator as A/B reference to compare internal leslie sims

 

 

KB reviewed the PC3 a few years back, but the operating system updates released since that time make it a whole new clonewheel - i like it more than my Nord Stage 2 in many respects, even tho the NS2 is 3.5 times the price...

[Joe Muscara]

Stephen - all I can say is !

 

It is interesting that Tony Monaco is getting a Mojo. I wonder if he is an endorsee or if he bought one.

I'm not surprised. Guido has posted videos of Tony playing a Mojo live when he was in Europe last August.

 

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSLj4fFEKtM

 

I think the other videos he posted were of him playing the Hamichord, but I'm not sure.

[LX88]

This isn't the best I have heard the Mojo sound ( Tony Monaco clip).

 

This sounds like the Mojo is running through somewhat shrill P.A. speakers.

 

This kind of goes back to some of my older posts about how much difference a speaker can make. The response curve on a P.A. cab is so much different than a leslie. Plus the woofer pointing toward the floor has a lot to do with an organ's tonal character.

 

But I will chalk this up to the speakers and the video camera mike. Dammit... I would like to hear a Mojo live.

 

 

[Joe Muscara]

I didn't post it for the audio quality.

 

Why don't you make the trek to Stephen's "SF Bay area forum hang / clonewheel playing session" when he does it? Since he'll have the Numa as well, you'll be able to compare what you have to the Mojo and all the others.

[LX88]

That is a bit of a trek.

 

And thanks for posting it...not meant to bitch but I am just noting that even the Mojo may not be exempt from digital - itis through "whatever" speakers.

 

I did go to one legendary Bay area Hammond hang once though. There was a birthday party for super Hammond tech Bob Schliecher in Oakland and I just *happened* to be driving south for a medical procedure in Mexico.

 

There were a bunch of Hammond heads down there that day - Will Blades, Tony Stead , Pete Fallico and Chester Thompson plus some gospel guys I had never heard.

 

Chester played late in the afternoon on a B-3 and though one of Bob's bi amped solid state leslies. The best Hammond sounds I have ever heard! Plus a chance to see him do his Squib Cakes bass pedal funk magic up close. What an afternoon!

 

Just talking to all the people there was so much fun. Jimmy Smith had just died, and a lot of people were talking, but mostly saying how difficult he was. I felt for some reason that I had to defend him, even though my own single encounter with Jimmy was not the greatest.

 

But mainly I got to say thank you to Pete Fallico ( a great guy and a tireless promoter of Hammond related music) and Chester - another super person.

 

So yes, sometimes a long distance trek can be worth it.

 

 

[bhodaway10]

Hey all,

 

I'm working on our next clonewheel roundup, which is slated for the August issue but may move later based on gear availability.

 

A bit of good news I just got is that Andrea and Guido are sending me a Mojo for review--actually it's slated to be Tony Monaco's.

 

So here's my druthers list for what goes in:

 

- Mojo

- Nord C2D

- Hammond SK2 (have the SK1 in hand but not the 2 yet)

- Studiologic Numa Organ

- Hammond XK-3C Pro System (lower manual, pedals, stand, etc., as a familiar reference)

- DLQ KeyB Duo

 

Hmmm, except for the Studiologic, there's a bit of a dual-manual theme going here.

 

Also working on software list. But for hardware, any other must-includes?

 

And yes, when I get all this stuff set up in one place, we should do a SF Bay area forum hang / clonewheel playing session.

 

Wow - this sounds awesome. Definitely, I'd love to play all of those clones back to back. Like Kanker, I'd like to play the electro 4d to see how it compares to the c2d.

 

I can also bring my 122 if needed and my hammond xpk200 pedals if anybody would like to try those.

 

As for Pete Fallico, he is an awesome ambassador for the hammond organ. His last organ summit was fabulous (Chester Thompson and Dr. Lonnie) and I heard about the next one....it's going to be great too. He even did the liner notes for my current cd.

[tompass]

B3halt-Was looking for example of piano,guitar,and organ rhythm section and found same in my archives. Goes back to what we were discussing...try not to overplay and listen.

 

[Craig MacDonald]

As far as the August shoot-out goes, I would also like to suggest Kurzweil KB3 mode and the Kronos CX3 engine be included as well. There are many folks who either can't afford a dedicated clone or choose NOT to have a dedicated clone, but it would still be nice to know how the various workstations, with drawbar organ modes, stack up against the dedicated clones!

 

What about the Roland At-350C? It's a dogs breakfast of a keyboard (my opinon), but it does market itself as a travel friendly combo organ, with virtual tonewheel technology! As much as I have never liked the VK series organs, Roland has historically been a player in the clone market and this is their newest product. That said, I think it leans a bit towards the "arranger" style keyboard and perhaps it's best left out.. but I just thought that it might be worth considering.

[AnotherScott]

What about the Roland At-350C?

Oh yes, I'd really like to see SOME Roland drawbar organ in there, I think it's the only real drawbar model manufacturer not represented in the core list. I might actually prefer to see the VR700 there, just because the AT is priced so far beyond anything else listed (and the VK8 and VK88 seem old these days). Do they have the same underlying organ engine?

[mate stubb]

You guys obviously have no idea how much work goes into clone shootouts. You have to evaluate basic tone, chorus vib, click, percussion, leslie sim, overdrive and others for each clone.

 

I'd rather have a very thorough shootout that actually carries some meaning than yet another shallow incomplete comparison because the B level players were included. We already know they will not win anything.

[Tobias Åslund]

What about the Roland At-350C?

Oh yes, I'd really like to see SOME Roland drawbar organ in there, I think it's the only real drawbar model manufacturer not represented in the core list. I might actually prefer to see the VR700 there, just because the AT is priced so far beyond anything else listed. Does anyone know whether the AT-350C and the VR700 have the same organ engine?

There's also the Jupiter-50/80. I think Roland has been using the same engine since the VK-8 in all their clones. There was an additional high gain rotary sim added when the VK-8m was released, but other than that IIRC I have read nothing to indicate there has been any improvements or addition since then, while other manufacturer (like Nord) make a big deal about every little thing they improve in each new generation.

 

Then about the shootout - maybe even the new Casio XW-P1 should be included? To my ears it doesn't sound like a contender, but there seems to be a lot of interest for it here on the forum. It might be something to consider for those who can't afford a dedicated clone, thus it's representing the low cost end of the market.

[Tonysounds]

Hey all,

 

I'm working on our next clonewheel roundup, which is slated for the August issue but may move later based on gear availability.

 

A bit of good news I just got is that Andrea and Guido are sending me a Mojo for review--actually it's slated to be Tony Monaco's.

 

So here's my druthers list for what goes in:

 

- Mojo

- Nord C2D

- Hammond SK2 (have the SK1 in hand but not the 2 yet)

- Studiologic Numa Organ

- Hammond XK-3C Pro System (lower manual, pedals, stand, etc., as a familiar reference)

- DLQ KeyB Duo

 

Hmmm, except for the Studiologic, there's a bit of a dual-manual theme going here.

 

Also working on software list. But for hardware, any other must-includes?

 

And yes, when I get all this stuff set up in one place, we should do a SF Bay area forum hang / clonewheel playing session.

 

KeyB Solo would be nice. (I see the Duo is in there, but the Solo has a lot of appeal.)

[Tonysounds]

You guys obviously have no idea how much work goes into clone shootouts. You have to evaluate basic tone, chorus vib, click, percussion, leslie sim, overdrive and others for each clone.

 

I'd rather have a very thorough shootout that actually carries some meaning than yet another shallow incomplete comparison because the B level players were included. We already know they will not win anything.

 

 

+1 thank you.

 

Adding those instruments just makes no sense.

 

1- Theyre NOT clones. Theyre not even trying.

2- Since organ is not primary, and only an add-on, its unfair to judge their quality to a dedicated clonewheel.

3- If youre going to add KB3 and Kronos and JupterXX, why not add the Motif, and the Fantom and every other keyboard that has an organ patch?

4- They dont have organ ergonomics, so those things will unfairly handicap them.

5- If you cant afford a dedicated clonewheel, its highly unlike you can afford a Kronos.

 

Its like bringing a skateboard to a bicycle shoot out, hey, it has wheels!!!!

 

[Tonysounds]

Then about the shootout - maybe even the new Casio XW-P1 should be included? To my ears it doesn't sound like a contender, but there seems to be a lot of interest for it here on the forum. It might be something to consider for those who can't afford a dedicated clone, thus it's representing the low cost end of the market.

 

Really? What the hell is the point of a shootout of dedicated instruments when you want to let anything with keys into it? :taz: :taz:

[kanker.]

5- If you cant afford a dedicated clonewheel, its highly unlike you can afford a Kronos.

Read 'afford' as 'justify'. Some folks just can't justify a couple grand on a dedicated clone but need the most authentic Hammond emulation they can get in a Swiss Army Knife board. Even though I have no use for a SAK keyboard, I'd be interested to see how they compare to dedicated clones. I bet people who do need a SAK that covers organ would be interested as well

[AnotherScott]

One thing I do not care about, compared to what was done in the last shootout, is hearing them through a real Leslie. I think, instead, a Ventilator would be a great way to assess them all on "common ground" (their organ emulation apart from their leslie emulation). I mean, what percentage of people who are looking to buy a 20-40 lb organ are likely to be gigging with a real Leslie?

[Joe Muscara]

What Moe and Tony said. Check Stephen's post again.

 

So here's my druthers list for what goes in:

 

- Mojo

- Nord C2D

- Hammond SK2 (have the SK1 in hand but not the 2 yet)

- Studiologic Numa Organ

- Hammond XK-3C Pro System (lower manual, pedals, stand, etc., as a familiar reference)

- DLQ KeyB Duo

 

Hmmm, except for the Studiologic, there's a bit of a dual-manual theme going here.

IOW, these are clones for people who want to get as close to the real thing as a clone can get, or maybe will make a die-hard B3 player move to a clone. Except for the Studiologic, can you put a die-hard Hammond organ player in front of it and will it make him or her happy? That's what I want to know. I want to read comments like, "I could totally see myself touring with one of these instead of my B3," and "damn, they came so close to nailing it except for _____."

 

(Nothing against the Studiologic, of course. It is a little different and may not sway someone to it simply because of its single-manual nature.)

 

Stephen, there are two more dual-manual clones that I know of you *may* want to include for completeness.

 

- Ventura TX-5

- Roland VK-88 (don't laugh, it's still considered a current product listed by Roland and available at retailers like Sweetwater)

[Craig MacDonald]

You guys obviously have no idea how much work goes into clone shootouts. You have to evaluate basic tone, chorus vib, click, percussion, leslie sim, overdrive and others for each clone.

 

I'd rather have a very thorough shootout that actually carries some meaning than yet another shallow incomplete comparison because the B level players were included. We already know they will not win anything.

 

 

+1 thank you.

 

Adding those instruments just makes no sense.

 

1- Theyre NOT clones. Theyre not even trying.

2- Since organ is not primary, and only an add-on, its unfair to judge their quality to a dedicated clonewheel.

3- If youre going to add KB3 and Kronos and JupterXX, why not add the Motif, and the Fantom and every other keyboard that has an organ patch?

4- They dont have organ ergonomics, so those things will unfairly handicap them.

5- If you cant afford a dedicated clonewheel, its highly unlike you can afford a Kronos.

 

Its like bringing a skateboard to a bicycle shoot out, hey, it has wheels!!!!

 

Both the Kurzweil and the Kronos have dedicated drawbar modes, (unlike other workstations) and they are a viable alternative "all in one" keyboard. To many owners of these products (and there are LOT'S of them), understanding how these keyboards stack up against the dedicated clones would be invaluable... AND it might be very interesting to see how these keyboards stack up against the Hammond SK series which seems to be billing itself as an all-in-one! The results of this might be surprising!

 

I think we all know how much work goes into this type of clone shoot out, but given how many Kronos and Kurzeil users there are, understanding how they stack up this could would be of interest to a LOT or people, and well worth the effort!

 

No one is suggestion we add motif's and Fantoms... they're sample players.. and don't have a dedicated drawbar organ mode.

[Tonysounds]

Oh actually motif DOES have a drawbar simulation with their faders. But if we're going to include a "drawbar mode", then why exclude? Plenty of people who can't afford (or justify) would be interested how the more affordable alternatives to Kronos would stack up.

 

But none of these are clonewheels, so adding them to the shootout is just counterproductive. An ancillary post-mortem, sure. But don't make it part of the shootout.

[Craig MacDonald]

5- If you cant afford a dedicated clonewheel, its highly unlike you can afford a Kronos.

Read 'afford' as 'justify'. Some folks just can't justify a couple grand on a dedicated clone but need the most authentic Hammond emulation they can get in a Swiss Army Knife board. Even though I have no use for a SAK keyboard, I'd be interested to see how they compare to dedicated clones. I bet people who do need a SAK that covers organ would be interested as well

 

I think that the suggestion that if you can't afford a dedicated clone wheel it's unlikely that you can afford a Kronos is very silly. IF I'm looking for an all in one workstation but I also want a drawbar organ, the Kronos is the perfect all-in-one solution.. (and so is the Kurzweil, just at a lower price point).

[CEB]

... I mean, what percentage of people who are looking to buy a 20-40 lb organ are likely to be gigging with a real Leslie?

 

I do. ...actually I think my organ is 45 pounds if I go single manual.

 

 

[Tobias Åslund]

Then about the shootout - maybe even the new Casio XW-P1 should be included? To my ears it doesn't sound like a contender, but there seems to be a lot of interest for it here on the forum. It might be something to consider for those who can't afford a dedicated clone, thus it's representing the low cost end of the market.

 

Really? What the hell is the point of a shootout of dedicated instruments when you want to let anything with keys into it?

First of all - I wrote maybe, indicating I am thinking out loud rather than suggesting. Secondly - the reason I even wrote this is if you look at the very long thread about the XW-P1, 95% of the posts seem to discuss how good this cheap keyboard would be as a clonewheel. Therefor it could be interesting to see what the pro players thinks of this. Every time I, in that and other threads write that I think the Casio is not a good alternative for a clonewheel, I get answeres like "but it is so cheap - only $599" "...and so lightweight"; "it has nine sliders for drawbars", "it has single triggered percussion like a real Hammond", "it has chorus/vibrato", "it has a rotary effect with dedicated speed button" and so on and so forth... so their seem to be a consensus here that this might very well be considered as a cheap clonewheel alternative. My opinion though is that the organ engine of this Casio still sounds quite frankly - bad.

[AnotherScott]

Oh actually motif DOES have a drawbar simulation with their faders.

Only 8 faders. And unlike the 9-fader Kurzweil and Kronos (and Roland in the Jupiter 80, for that matter, with its 9 on-screen drawbars), Yamaha makes no claim to having a clonewheel engine built in. I don't think you can toggle Leslie speed with a switch, I don't think you can have simultaneous access to buttons for percussion on/off, fast/slow, short/long, 2nd/3rd, and CV controls. I'm pretty sure you *do* have all these things on the Kronos, Kurzweil, and Roland.

 

So no, no one is suggesting opening this up to any board with an organ patch. But these boards do market themselves as offering true clonewheel functionality.

[AnotherScott]

... I mean, what percentage of people who are looking to buy a 20-40 lb organ are likely to be gigging with a real Leslie?

 

I do. ...actually I think my organ is 45 pounds if I go single manual.

I didn't say the percentage was zero. ;-) I just think many more people are interested in traveling with one of these clones than are interested in traveling with a full size Leslie. And some percentage of those using a full size Leslie also have the resources to be using a full tonewheel Hammond!

[Tobias Åslund]

I think there is one more alternative that could very well could be included - the (also) very cheap Ferrofish B4000+. This is a dedicated module, with real drawbars, that does nothing else than tonewheel organ.

 

http://www.ferrofish.de/index.php/en/products-en/b4000-en

[CEB]

Just having a few sliders to twiddle with don't a make a keyboard an organ like instrument. It just isn't. Too many keyboard players don't have the frame of reference to understand that. I would keep to things that actually play like an organ.

 

Actual swell pedal options not some lame synth volume pedal, on deck real time CV controls, at hand 2nd and 3rd percussion controls, dual Drawbars option with presets, leslie interfaces. bass pedal options, bass pedal tones, etc .... you know it should be sort of like an organ.