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Roland RD-88 #3023698 01/15/20 09:43 AM
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Jinkings Offline OP
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Looks good

KC Island
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3023699 01/15/20 09:47 AM
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PHA-4 Standard Keyboard: with Escapement and Ivory Feel
3 parts
Audio over USB
Wheels on the top
13,5 kg (29 pounds)

Last edited by Jinkings; 01/15/20 09:56 AM.
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3023703 01/15/20 11:09 AM
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The weight is right. Wheels on top for compactness. But external PSU - common in this weight bracket.

Regards, Mike.


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One or two keyboards.
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3023705 01/15/20 11:57 AM
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I was waiting for when they will release a new affordable RD after the pricey 800 and the even priceyer 2000. This might be just the thing for our church band. I still find the EPs lifeless though.

Last edited by marczellm; 01/15/20 11:57 AM.

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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3023720 01/15/20 02:04 PM
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I'm hope they'll be a better demo of this.


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3023722 01/15/20 02:22 PM
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Toano88 Offline
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Who demos a stage piano with clear shots of him using mainstage? I also noted it has what looks like speaker grills.


Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12
Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3023723 01/15/20 02:39 PM
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It DOES look good. Not a big fan of Roland APianos (sound-wise, but I do like the Roland actions)but it might be a good casual (restaurant and other low profile) gig board IF the price is right ($999) or less.

$1199 street and 29 lbs? Hmmm....

Last edited by jimkost2002; 01/15/20 03:04 PM.

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�
Robert Bosch, 1919
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3023724 01/15/20 02:45 PM
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The Roland website shows the MainStage integration as intentional and by design. Also, wasn't there just a thread here praising the PHA-4 action?

Speakers are 6W each, and look tiny by the photos. Not sure how useful they'll be for anything but personal practice.

I like the more compact form factor and the lighter weight. I wonder how customizable the SN pianos are.


Mike from Central NJ
Tools: Ten fingers, two feet, middle-age brain, questionable judgement and taste
Toys: More gear than I could afford when I had talent and did this for a living
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3023727 01/15/20 03:04 PM
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Toano88 Offline
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Quote
The Roland website shows the MainStage integration as intentional and by design


Okay good for a controller, but what are you hearing in the video? There are 3 posibilites, a virtual instrument, the piano processed by a plugin or just the instrument.
I'm commenting on the demo, I'm sure it is a fine board. But you don't really know by that video.

Last edited by Toano88; 01/15/20 03:05 PM.

Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12
Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3023728 01/15/20 03:09 PM
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I applaud efforts to put quality sounds and weighted action in more portable streamlined packages, but wish they would go "all the way" and make it a 76er without speakers. The dream lives on. I can see why the PHA4 action might lead someone choose this over the sub-30 lb competition.


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3023729 01/15/20 03:09 PM
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PHA-4 Concert Keyboard: with Escapement and Ebony/Ivory Feel is on the RD-800.
I prefer it to the PHA-50 Keyboard: Wood and Plastic Hybrid Structure, with Escapement and Ebony/Ivory Feel (88 keys) on the RD-2000.

I think Roland is all in on their V-Piano modeling. I believe they use it across the digital piano line now. - home models and the flagship stage piano.

This RD-88 is an interesting development as a controller - perhaps for some more so than the A-88 they just released.


Live: Casio PX-560, Roland VR-700
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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Adan] #3023731 01/15/20 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Adan
I applaud efforts to put quality sounds and weighted action in more portable streamlined packages, but wish they would go "all the way" and make it a 76er without speakers. The dream lives on. I can see why the PHA4 action might lead someone choose this over the sub-30 lb competition.


Even though it’s 400 more than the Casio px3000, I’d take this over the Casio any day
Better keyboard
Better interface
Better controller
only downside is 8lbs heavier, but I’ll take heavier weight for better features

Last edited by jimkost2002; 01/15/20 03:16 PM.

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�
Robert Bosch, 1919
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: jimkost2002] #3023736 01/15/20 03:42 PM
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drawback Offline
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Originally Posted by jimkost2002
Originally Posted by Adan
I applaud efforts to put quality sounds and weighted action in more portable streamlined packages, but wish they would go "all the way" and make it a 76er without speakers. The dream lives on. I can see why the PHA4 action might lead someone choose this over the sub-30 lb competition.


Even though it’s 400 more than the Casio px3000, I’d take this over the Casio any day
Better keyboard
Better interface
Better controller
only downside is 8lbs heavier, but I’ll take heavier weight for better features


I’m interested in this one, too. I like the Bluetooth connectivity, plus what appears to be lighter action. SuperNatural tweaking to both AP and EP. Not a lot of photos yet, nothing on Sweetwater (and they usually are right on it), no user manual yet.

Rush entry to NAMM?


1977 Kawai KG2C | Mojo61 A+B | Quicco Mi.1 | iOS / MacOS
Ravenscroft | Neo-Soul Keys Studio 2 | Acoustic Samples V-Tines | iSymphonic | Pure Synth Platinum | iFretless | Module Pro |
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3023737 01/15/20 03:44 PM
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Street Price $1,199.99 - this is a problem for some competitors for sure.

Sound GeneratorZEN-Core
SuperNATURAL Piano
SuperNATURAL E.PianoParts3 partsTonesScene: 400
Tone: Over 3,000EffectsZone Multi-effects: 3 systems, 90 types
Zone EQ: 3 systems
Zone Tone Color: 3 systems
Scene Multi-effects (IFX): 90 types
Sympathetic Resonance
Chorus/Delay: 8 types
Reverb: 6 types
Master Compressor
Master EQ
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Rhythm Pattern
Song Player
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DAW ControlOTHER SECTIONControllersAssignable Wheel x 2
Assignable Control knob x 8
Master Volume knob
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Assignable Pedal x 2Rated Power Output6 W x 2SpeakersFull Range 12 cm x 2
Tweeter 2 cm x 2DisplayGraphic LCD 128 x 64 dotsExternal Storage DeviceUSB flash driveConnectorsPHONES jack: stereo 1/4-inch phone type
OUTPUT jacks (L/MONO, R): 1/4-inch phone type
MIC INPUT jack: 1/4-inch phone type
LINE INPUT Jack: Stereo miniature phone type
Pedal (DAMPER, FC1, FC2) jacks: TRS phone type
MIDI OUT jack
USB MEMORY port
USB COMPUTER port (supports USB MIDI/AUDIO)
DC IN jackPower SupplyDC 12 V: AC adaptorCurrent Draw1,500 mAAccessoriesOwner's manual
Leaflet "USING THE UNIT SAFELY"
AC adaptor
Power cord
Pedal SwitchOptions (sold separately)Stand (KS-12, KS-10Z)
Pedal (DP-2, DP-10, EV-5, RPU-3)
Carrying Bag: (CB-88RL, CB-76RL)
Headphones
USB Flash drive (*)SIZE AND WEIGHTDimensions1,284 (W) x 258 (D) x 159 (H) mm
50-9/16 (W) x 10-3/16 (D) x 6-5/16 (H) inchesWeight13.5 kg / 29 lbs 13 oz (excluding AC adaptor)


Live: Casio PX-560, Roland VR-700
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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: jimkost2002] #3023738 01/15/20 03:48 PM
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I'm glad to see a real button interface, a move away from either scrolling or using the piano keys as controls, as has gotten so common on the lightweight slabs. And 5-pin MIDI. (But only Out?)


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3023742 01/15/20 03:58 PM
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MIDI OUT only is weird.
But 3 parts is better than 2.


Life is subtractive.
Current: Jazz, funk, rock, pop, Christian worship, BebHop
Wishlist: 80s-ish (synth)pop, symphonic pop, prog rock, fusion, musical theatre
Gear: NS2 + JUNO-G

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: drawback] #3023743 01/15/20 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by drawback

nothing on Sweetwater (and they usually are right on it)



There you go wink
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RD88--roland-rd-88-88-key-stage-piano


Back then...
Yamaha U1

Nowadays...
Kawai MP11SE
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: marczellm] #3023754 01/15/20 04:42 PM
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[quote=marczellm]MIDI OUT only is weird.
But 3 parts is better than 2.[/quote

My RD-64 also has MIDI out only, also. Hopefully the RD-88 will allow you to use an expression pedal for onboard sounds, something you can't do on the RD-64. But overall, an updated, 88 key version of the RD-64 appeals to me because I really like my 64, I just seem to connect with it- and definitely have NEVER been a Roland fanboy. Have thought about asking here which Roland 88 is most like the RD-64.


Please excuse my dangling "r"
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3023755 01/15/20 04:43 PM
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uninformative video but loving the concept.
roland are listening - wheels above the keys!


hang out with me at woody piano shack
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3023759 01/15/20 05:04 PM
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Huh! Maybe a worthy eventual successor to my FP-4.

Also, sorry, but... not only are the wheels above the keys, but they're *wheels*. How often do they stray from the paddle?


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3023763 01/15/20 05:19 PM
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I dig it, at the price point it’s gonna be hard to say no to. I prefer 88’s without the paddle, just a few inches less makes all the difference loading it into the car.

Now, about the friggin’ wall wart...

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3023766 01/15/20 05:23 PM
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A successor to RD300nx in something close to the FP30 shell.

Pretty sure this is the first “RD” with built in speakers.

I honestly think they should have gone with an internal power supply though, since RD is the pro line. Sure, it would add a few lbs (and a few £) but I could have lived with that.

I just have no interest in having to carry external power supplies. I know it doesn’t bother some people but it’s a dealbreaker for me.


RD2000, S70xs, Nord Stage 2 ex
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3023769 01/15/20 05:33 PM
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a chap at roland told me that the JD-Xi was the game changer for Roland, their first synth with mini-keys, their first synth with pitch and mod wheels and the first synth (in decades)with an analogue sound engine.


hang out with me at woody piano shack
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: GuiliClayder] #3023774 01/15/20 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by GuiliClayder
Originally Posted by drawback

nothing on Sweetwater (and they usually are right on it)



There you go wink
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RD88--roland-rd-88-88-key-stage-piano


Thankya, thankya vurreemuch. I wonder how much actual SuperNatural editing is possible? I was able to tweak out many inherent Roland AP cheese, and EP artifacts, even with the RD700. The RD64 had no sound shaping capabilities.


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: The Piano Man] #3023785 01/15/20 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by The Piano Man
I honestly think they should have gone with an internal power supply though, since RD is the pro line. Sure, it would add a few lbs (and a few £) but I could have lived with that.

I just have no interest in having to carry external power supplies. I know it doesn’t bother some people but it’s a dealbreaker for me.

Seems they could have swapped the internal speakers (anyone here really need/want those?) for an internal power supply. But I get that the external power supply makes it easier to bring to market.

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3023787 01/15/20 06:58 PM
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OK, I was looking for an RD-800 but maybe this will work well enough and give me what I am looking for, but I agree, that video is really not very helpful (to put it mildly)


Kurzweil Forte 7, Mojo 61, Kurzweil PC361,
Kronos X61,
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: drawback] #3023796 01/15/20 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by drawback

Rush entry to NAMM?


Would explain the video for sure, seems like it was maybe shot in the last day or two for some quick pre-NAMM facetime.


Eric
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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3023824 01/15/20 09:12 PM
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Apparently will be possible to load sounds from other Zen Core keyboards like Fantom and Jupiter X

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3023904 01/16/20 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Jinkings
Apparently will be possible to load sounds from other Zen Core keyboards like Fantom and Jupiter X

^^^This

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Adan] #3023955 01/16/20 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Adan

..., but wish they would go "all the way" and make it a 76er without speakers. [


Precisely 76er A-C w/ oct. up/down buttons & momentary ft.-sw. control !

Originally Posted by Adan

The dream lives on.


yep !

A.C.

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3023957 01/16/20 02:39 PM
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Yes, the Zen Core announcement just made this board a whole lot more interesting.


Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12
Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3023965 01/16/20 03:30 PM
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Precisely the form factor, features, and capabilities Korg and Yamaha should go after.

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3023971 01/16/20 03:59 PM
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To me, this board and concept looks like one of those leaps forward. I hate to say “game changer,” but there are many key design decisions factored in here that other manufacturers have been missing (or have included some, but not all) - and prime reasons I had decided to pursue the controller/software route. I may decide to be a “hardware guy” again. Let’s see what this weekend brings!


1977 Kawai KG2C | Mojo61 A+B | Quicco Mi.1 | iOS / MacOS
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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024055 01/16/20 09:22 PM
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I see the three zones are quite limited (two upper, one lower with a single split point). Disappointing in a board costing over £1000. That’s why I’ve always liked Kurzweil as they typically let you set whatever key ranges you want for each zone.

Still, a nice light and compact keyboard with decent action. I’m sure it will be popular with some.


RD2000, S70xs, Nord Stage 2 ex
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024057 01/16/20 09:30 PM
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I would probably go for a used RD-800 instead, just from a midi standpoint. I guess you won’t be able to have one sound assigned to a different midi channel for an upper board? No midi in anyways and that would be a dealbreaker for me. Everything else I’d really nice though.


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024058 01/16/20 09:30 PM
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I do sound overly negative ^^^

I really like the compact dimensions and decent action. I would love to see a board with those dimensions but with greater functionality. Maybe I’m asking for something that isn’t possible. I do note the Kurzweil PC4 is only 13kg but somewhat bulky.


RD2000, S70xs, Nord Stage 2 ex
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024060 01/16/20 09:38 PM
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About this RH4 keybed : is it as good as or better than the Ivory Feel G keyboard in the Juno DS88/FA-08 ?
Escapement, triple sensor ?


Back then...
Yamaha U1

Nowadays...
Kawai MP11SE
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024125 01/17/20 03:18 AM
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It’s supposed to be better, their successor even.
The same as in FP-10, FP-30 and FP-60.
And yes. Escapement, triple sensor.

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024126 01/17/20 03:29 AM
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Yeah, it definitely feels like a step up. I thought it played really well. I’m just a little concerned about the height, it could be a little too tall for two-tier duty.

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024127 01/17/20 03:34 AM
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Very informative and very compelling.
I’m interested.
Fairly light - plenty of built in sounds, zen core offers adding what you need.
MainStage Integration includes visual feedback on the Rd-88’s display and premapped sound switching with the patch buttons.
Built in audio midi interface mixes sounds from MacBook and RD.
Internal speakers for switch on and practice might be good enough for intimate settings.


Live: Casio PX-560, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k, Yamaha S90ES
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Mighty Motif Max] #3024128 01/17/20 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Mighty Motif Max
I would probably go for a used RD-800 instead

Too heavy.

In terms of current boards with speakers, I think the closest competitor is Casio PX-560.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: AnotherScott] #3024131 01/17/20 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by Mighty Motif Max
I would probably go for a used RD-800 instead

Too heavy.

In terms of current boards with speakers, I think the closest competitor is Casio PX-560.


I’ve been using the 560 for duet (with sax, violin, flute, etc.) and solo stuff.
The speakers are actually quite loud.
You might want some lower end by adding a small PA speaker.


Live: Casio PX-560, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k, Yamaha S90ES
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024134 01/17/20 04:26 AM
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I can see myself "downgrading" from my FA-08 to this, for the size and weight benefit.

- Jimbo


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024167 01/17/20 09:39 AM
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It's great that Roland have been listening. This product goes a long way to addressing the issues musicians with weighted boards come up against. And in most ways it is successful. Built in speakers comes over as a more consumer feature to have on a home keyboard. I guess they're thinking of the guy in his 20s who gets back from his gig and unpacks his stage piano to practice at home.
Great dimensions though, and much easier to carry and move around. I hope it has the build quality of the RD700, which I still use in the studio and is built like a tank. Swapping out the inbuilt PSU though in favour of a wall wart is a mistake in my opinion. It's an extra thing to remember, and the cables on wall warts I find are never roadworthy, creating a weak link where there doesn't need to be one. Also, it's a small detail, but if you look on the photos, you'll see there is barely enough space around the knobs to make adjustments.

Overall, though, I think it will do very well.


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024168 01/17/20 09:49 AM
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But how would it differ from the similarly priced (and specced) Roland FP-60?
Is it the roadworthiness?

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024169 01/17/20 09:59 AM
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I’m not fully clear on the zen core thing. In theory it means you can play any sounds from the likes of the new fantom series on an rd88 right? But the sacrifice is that the rd88 has more limited facility for tweaking?But canyou just download the sounds directly into the rd88 and play or does one have to be connected online or via the cloud? If you can download directly I wonder how much you can load into an rd88 before it’s full up. Seems like a good system if that’s the case.


Casio PXS3000, MODX8, Hammond SK2.
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Fleer] #3024170 01/17/20 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Fleer
But how would it differ from the similarly priced (and specced) Roland FP-60?
Is it the roadworthiness?


Real time controls and a more mechanical feeling action.

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024171 01/17/20 10:22 AM
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One of the only keyboards I was actually able to "hear" yesterday. Really poor phones aside, I felt it was a strong addition to their DP lineup and should be popular. Of course I couldn't tell anything about the speaker volume/quality And their concept of what a DP sounds like still isn't my thing.

The best portable/semi-portable DP sound I heard and player connection I experienced yesterday remained from last year- the Yamaha P-515. Luckily it was positioned behind a wall and somewhat shielded form the main room onslaught - which seemed worse then last year...if that's even possible ! Despite the bad phones as well, I was able to at least make out a little something.

Last edited by Dave Ferris; 01/17/20 10:28 AM.
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024193 01/17/20 02:47 PM
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I'm really excited by these features and this weight at this price point, though every current (and older, really) stage piano is sort of driving home for me that what I really want is a Yamaha CP88, just $1000 cheaper. roll


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Fleer] #3024212 01/17/20 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
I’ve been using the 560 for duet (with sax, violin, flute, etc.) and solo stuff.

560 is a great board. Each has some significant features the other does not. Roland has much better MIDI controller functionality, and when it comes to splits/layers, you can put independent insert effects on three parts (vs. only one part being able to have its own effects on the Casio), and it includes VA synth capability (PX-560 lacks even a monophonic synth mode). Casio advantages include more split/layer parts (4, which can even be extended to 24 with hexlayers, whereas Roland is 3), full on-board sound editing (it looks like the only deep editing on the Roland might be to own another zen-core board that has editing), and built-in sequencer. If you want a versatile lightweight weighted 88 with speakers and lots of sounds, I think these are the two to look at. I'll be curious to see comparisons in their sounds and actions.

Originally Posted by Fleer
But how would it differ from the similarly priced (and specced) Roland FP-60?

For one thing, it's under 30 lbs instead of over 40.


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Dockeys] #3024214 01/17/20 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Dockeys
I’m not fully clear on the zen core thing. In theory it means you can play any sounds from the likes of the new fantom series on an rd88 right?

I think it has to be specifically sounds from the zen-core engine, so not V-piano. Though the part of the press release about "ZEN-Core Expansions" is not entirely clear.

Originally Posted by Dockeys
If you can download directly I wonder how much you can load into an rd88 before it’s full up.

I'm guessing that the stock sample set (and VA tone generation) is the same inside the boards, so the resources to create the sounds are already there... then I guess the limit would be the number of empty user preset locations.


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024258 01/17/20 10:25 PM
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But still ... external power brick ?

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024264 01/17/20 11:21 PM
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I'll admit, I never thought I'd see the day when Roland released a DP that wasn't 6 inches longer than it needed to be to accommodate a 2-inch-wide joystick that should have been placed above the keys anyway. For that reason alone, this board doesn't automatically land on my "no way I'd even consider it" list like every other RD board for the last 20 years has. Good on them for listening.

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Dave Ferris] #3024265 01/17/20 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris

... I felt it was a strong addition to their DP lineup and should be popular. Of course I couldn't tell anything about the speaker volume/quality And their concept of what a DP sounds like still isn't my thing.


What about the playability of the action `?
The case isn´t deep and I wonder how they managed it w/ the pivot point.

Well, I´d need MIDI-In anyway,- just only for the MIDI program changes, controller offsets and such I organize in a separate hardware-device.

No MIDI-In is already a dealbreaker I fear.

smile

A.C.

Last edited by Al Coda; 01/17/20 11:38 PM.
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Josh Paxton] #3024289 01/18/20 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh Paxton
I'll admit, I never thought I'd see the day when Roland released a DP that wasn't 6 inches longer than it needed to be to accommodate a 2-inch-wide joystick that should have been placed above the keys anyway. For that reason alone, this board doesn't automatically land on my "no way I'd even consider it" list like every other RD board for the last 20 years has. Good on them for listening.


+1000000


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024290 01/18/20 02:00 AM
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Yeah what about the action? The CP4 has a fast action . My Roland FP 4 was fast and so were the RD700 actions. But the recent FP and RD2000 actions have not been fast. I think they are making them for rock players to pound on .


Jazz Pianist | Kawai ES110 (26 lbs) | Mojo 61 (26 lbs) |1966 Mason & Hamlin acoustic piano (1,000 lbs)
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024297 01/18/20 03:08 AM
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Closer look...

Attached Files
RD88.jpg (275.11 KB, 317 downloads)
RD88B.jpg (303.56 KB, 307 downloads)

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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024301 01/18/20 03:54 AM
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Great pics, thanks!

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024304 01/18/20 04:11 AM
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J+ - I thought the RD-88 action felt pretty light , but still fairly solid. I think if one digs "that" sound, they'll really like the new edition.

Btw I played the Kawai ES110 you just changed over to. I see where you and Peter are coming from. The action is really light and it sounded good for single note lines...even with the pitiful headphones (yet again ) at Kawai.

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Dave Ferris] #3024338 01/18/20 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
J+ - I thought the RD-88 action felt pretty light , but still fairly solid. I think if one digs "that" sound, they'll really like the new edition.

Btw I played the Kawai ES110 you just changed over to. I see where you and Peter are coming from. The action is really light and it sounded good for sind gle note lines...even with the pitiful headphones (yet again ) at Kawai.


I went to GC yesterday to try FP30. Last time I played it, was when I was preparing to purchase Casio PX-S3000. This time I wanted to decide if I made right move purchasing ES110 right before NAMM and the release of new equipment (RD-88,) that tickles my fancy and pocketbook. I felt FP30 to be sluggish and considering the not very convincing Super Natural engine, I'll be content with the ES110. If I was younger and still regularly gigging popular music, I would overlook my negativity and purchase an RD-88.

A more perfect RD-88 would be one that has the old FP4 action and a sample-based acoustic piano sound.

IMO, there is always a compromise when deciding what board to play music, especially when you do not need a flagship digital. The PX-S3000 on paper seemed perfect for me until its negatives started overwhelming me. I'm excited about the ES110, which I hope I get next week. I never thought too much about Kawai because they were never available in my area and for the most part still are not.

Dave, BTW, when I was at trying out piano, I took time to play a SK7 Shigeru Kawai. This is one of most beautiful pianos I've ever played. Would be on short list if I was wealthy. Just exquisite!


AG N2 | ES 110 | REFACE CP | GK MK & MP amps
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: 16251] #3024340 01/18/20 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 16251
A more perfect RD-88 would be one that has the old FP4 action and a sample-based acoustic piano sound.

The MIDI functionality at least makes it easy to add/integrate a piano from an iPad or whatever (unlike on the other boards you mention, PX-S3000/FP30/ES110 where it may be more important that you're happy with all its own sounds), but there's nothing you can do about the action. Yeah, the FP4 (and FP2) action was pretty nicely playable, even if not feeling so much like a real piano.


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: AnotherScott] #3024345 01/18/20 01:07 PM
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Has anyone commented on the PHA4 action that it has? Interestingly, I bought a P-125 for my mother-in-law at Christmas after trying the P-125 and P-45 at GC. Even though they both have the same action, the P-125 had a much better feel - it seemed much more playable. It was then that I suspected there are different ways to implement the same key action.


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Coker] #3024348 01/18/20 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Coker
Interestingly, I bought a P-125 for my mother-in-law at Christmas after trying the P-125 and P-45 at GC. Even though they both have the same action, the P-125 had a much better feel - it seemed much more playable. It was then that I suspected there are different ways to implement the same key action.

Yes, at this point I think there are too many reports to ignore, the GHS varies a lot, as does the Korg NH (and RH3, though that may be more a matter of whether or not it has aftertouch, I'm not sure). With the Korg NH, I've noticed differences even from one Kross 88 to another, so at least in that case, I don't think it's inherent to which board its in, rather I think there are different runs that vary slightly (perhaps coming from different manufacturing facilities?). With GHS, I've definitely noticed differences between models, though I don't know if I've ever come across two of the same model that feel different. In the case of all of these, I've found some that I felt I could be reasonably happy with and ones that I really didn't like.


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: AnotherScott] #3024350 01/18/20 01:30 PM
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Anotherscott, I hear you. I was ready to pull the trigger on a MODX8 after sitting down playing AP for an hour at GC, feeling good about its action and desirous of reasonable organs and some other sounds for layering. BUT I started feeling a little squeamish about it, remembering the bad impression of its action by some bloggers, and just then the RD88 announcement appeared. Then predictive complaints about its action started. Sheesh! And to think that I lived with a Kurzweil PC88 for so many years with its less than stellar action.

Last edited by Coker; 01/18/20 01:33 PM.

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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024382 01/18/20 04:38 PM
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I suspect the trend towards more heavy and sluggish actions is that the lighter ones are less sturdy and come back under warranty far more often. That's expensive for the maker and the dealer. This supports my other theory that they are making actions for rocker players to pound on.
The shorter pivot is also a trend in the wrong direction, imo. This new Yamaha looks to have a short pivot in the photos I have seen.


Jazz Pianist | Kawai ES110 (26 lbs) | Mojo 61 (26 lbs) |1966 Mason & Hamlin acoustic piano (1,000 lbs)
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024389 01/18/20 05:29 PM
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RD-2000. Heavy and sluggish on the return. It’s fine for chording/comping, ballads, rhythmic stuff. Tiring for soloing and notier rep like classical and jazz. It’s also a big heavy and deep case.

I think our own community has driven the developers to more compact and lighter. The weekend, semi pro and pro players keep talking about shaving weight and width for the car. So, smart to put the wheels up top. But personally, I’m not interested in shaving depth for convenience because it shortens pivot point and ruins the feel of a hammer swing for piano like timing and dynamic control. And, it creates a dead spot by the fall board.

The RD-88 has peaked my interested. But I notice it’s shallow - which is concerning. If it doesn’t play like a typical PH4 because they buggered the pivot point it’s a pass.


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024390 01/18/20 05:36 PM
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I've realized it takes me more than 15 minutes of playing to fully realize how much work weighted digital piano actions can be. I've fooled myself for over it for years.


Jazz Pianist | Kawai ES110 (26 lbs) | Mojo 61 (26 lbs) |1966 Mason & Hamlin acoustic piano (1,000 lbs)
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024401 01/18/20 06:26 PM
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Was back in the GC just now - CP88. Plays like a dream. Nice swing of the hammer feel, fast return for restrike.
The RH3 on the Kronos 8 is decent. GHS on the MODX has shorter feeling drop, not as swingy but not dead spot at the fall board.


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024482 01/19/20 04:37 AM
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So, that $1200 RD-88 gets 3000+ Zen Core sounds. Color me interested.

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024487 01/19/20 04:58 AM
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Getting a closer look at it - I do notice they’ve shaved the length by placing wheels up, great. But it also looks like they shaved depth - I hope that doesn’t mean messing with the pivot point of the PH4. Dave seems to have had a hot minute with it at NAMM and isn’t complaining about the feel - it’s noisy there so one might not notice a dead spot by the fall board. Can’t wait to play this one for myself in a local shop.


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024490 01/19/20 05:09 AM
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But those wheels seem a bit of an afterthought, as if they’re added onto the board.

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Fleer] #3024492 01/19/20 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Fleer
But those wheels seem a bit of an afterthought, as if they’re added onto the board.


I’m not sure about that - because the concept or sell here is the visual feedback from MainStage with a better quality PH4 action. So it’s meant to be a controller - and it needs at the least Pitch and Mod if it isn’t going to have extensive pedal inputs.


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024497 01/19/20 05:44 AM
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Indeed, I meant that they seem to have been added on top, as it doesn’t look very integrated.

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: 16251] #3024498 01/19/20 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by 16251
Dave, BTW, when I was at trying out piano, I took time to play a SK7 Shigeru Kawai. This is one of most beautiful pianos I've ever played. Would be on short list if I was wealthy. Just exquisite!


Just a real quick ot- I played the SK-5 and the Concert size SK-EX in the Kawai room. Both were very nice, especially the 9'er, and if set up properly, they'd be even more cool ! And it was great to be in a room without electronics to be able to hear ...unlike Yamaha. cry

I was trying to explain to my two friends I went to the show with about how the Yamaha SX-7 is different from other Yamahas , in that it's handmade and shares some of the Bosendorfer qualities. My one friend who is also a pianist, more of a rock guy , sat down and started playing. I swear, because of the extreme noise, it would've been hard to distinguish between that SX-7 and a decent quality digital piano. facepalm

It was hopeless, he got up after about 20 seconds, shrugged his shoulders indicating you couldn't hear sh*t. We all agreed at that point, let's get the F out of here. wink

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Dave Ferris] #3024507 01/19/20 08:08 AM
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yeahthat

NAMM in a nutshell


A reason why I collect old keyboards is that I feel partly responsible for doing it, responsible for preserving history and being a custodian for these things
Plus, old gear has a story. I like that.
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024508 01/19/20 08:54 AM
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This year, I am making a real effort just to enjoy the gear I’ve already got. More playing. Less Buying!


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3024558 01/19/20 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
But it also looks like they shaved depth - I hope that doesn’t mean messing with the pivot point of the PH4.

If they changed the pivot point, it means they changed the length of the key, and I'd be surprised if they used the same nomenclature for keys that are that physically different.


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: AnotherScott] #3024571 01/19/20 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
But it also looks like they shaved depth - I hope that doesn’t mean messing with the pivot point of the PH4.

If they changed the pivot point, it means they changed the length of the key, and I'd be surprised if they used the same nomenclature for keys that are that physically different.


Will have to try it at the shop. Hoping PH4 means PH4 in Roland land.


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3024632 01/20/20 03:46 AM
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Also wondering if the RD-88 has particle board underneath. The old RD pianos did, not sure about the newer ones (or the FA 08 for that matter).

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Fleer] #3024753 01/20/20 08:09 PM
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I don't believe the FA-08 has particle board underneath (my old DS-88 had a plastic base). The RD-88 is lighter than those two boards so I imagine it would have a plastic base too.


Kris
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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Coker] #3024783 01/20/20 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Coker
Has anyone commented on the PHA4 action that it has? Interestingly, I bought a P-125 for my mother-in-law at Christmas after trying the P-125 and P-45 at GC. Even though they both have the same action, the P-125 had a much better feel - it seemed much more playable. It was then that I suspected there are different ways to implement the same key action.


I would agree this is the case- I am quite pleased with my P-125 as a whole as a portable unit- although not a Kawai action or even Casio in some instances- the mix of dynamics, speaker sound and clearness made the P-125 my choice over the ES110.

In terms of the RD-88 to me it seems in some aspects slightly overpriced- granted it is 29 pounds but for $300 more one can get a P515. However does the RD-88 have 4 speakers? The Yamaha has 4 and it makes a difference (even at 7w x 2 channels it is decent in a room )

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: The Piano Man] #3024784 01/20/20 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by The Piano Man
This year, I am making a real effort just to enjoy the gear I’ve already got. More playing. Less Buying!


I'm trying to do that over time- in my opinion as the decades go on improvements and upgrades can be more and more subtle.

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: kayriss] #3024807 01/21/20 02:36 AM
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Originally Posted by kayriss
I don't believe the FA-08 has particle board underneath (my old DS-88 had a plastic base). The RD-88 is lighter than those two boards so I imagine it would have a plastic base too.

Yes! Thanks @kayriss.

@LarsHarner: 4 (2 upwards tweeters and 2 downward woofers)

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3025037 01/22/20 01:34 PM
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When the latest Casios came out, the GC store I went to heard the Roland FP 30

I thought the FP 30 was miles ahead of the Casio as far as the acoustic piano sample was concerned, The " plunk" in the Casio mid range has always been a huge turnoff for me

I took the FP 30 home and found I liked it even more when I adjusted the touch setting so that the overtones wouldn't trigger too soon.

Is the RD 88 using the same keybed as the FP30?

Also, did anyone test the RD 88 at NAMM?

BTW, no one can hear anything at NAMM so smuggle some headphones in if want to hear a particular instrument.

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: LarsHarner] #3025046 01/22/20 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by LarsHarner
In terms of the RD-88 to me it seems in some aspects slightly overpriced- granted it is 29 pounds but for $300 more one can get a P515.

Well, that's still 25% more. But really, the boards are quite different. The Yamaha may have the edge as a pure piano, but the Roland is in another league as a MIDI controller, with its definable knobs, pitch and mod wheels, Mainstage integration.


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3025089 01/22/20 06:58 PM
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P-515 is good for its keyboard action and voices like pianos, rhodes, wurly, church organ. But it doesn't have any pitch bend, modulation, dedicated expression pedal input, no sliders/knobs for zone volumes, even registrations are absent without external app! It's portable digital piano, but it's hard to find any "stageness" of it. It's the most "stage" because of it is a slab.


Yamaha P-515, Roland FA-07, Hammond XK-1c, Presonus Eris E5, AKG K271 MKII, Laney AH80
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3025134 01/22/20 09:46 PM
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The Rd 88 has definitely got me curious.

It will probably be awhile before they hit the shops but... the weight and price are certainly attractive.

I have not been wild about recent Roland Rhodes samples however, although I can imagine that the RD 2000 has pretty good Rhodes. Hopefully this transfers over to the RD88.

It also must have organs. Although I guess everyone's idea of ideal organ sounds is completely different.

I could live with just a good acoustic sample and good EP's. I have come to not expect more than that.

The P 515 is not my idea of a good gigging board. 29 pound is more like it.

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3025762 01/25/20 08:05 PM
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Roland starting to get their copy and media in order on the RD-88...

Sound Cloud Patch Demos


[Linked Image from static.roland.com]

[Linked Image from static.roland.com]

Sound GeneratorZEN-Core
SuperNATURAL Piano
SuperNATURAL E.PianoParts3 partsTonesScene: 400
Tone: Over 3,000EffectsZone Multi-effects: 3 systems, 90 types
Zone EQ: 3 systems
Zone Tone Color: 3 systems
Scene Multi-effects (IFX): 90 types
Sympathetic Resonance
Chorus/Delay: 8 types
Reverb: 6 types
Master Compressor
Master EQ
Input Reverb
Input EQOther FunctionsFavorite
Rhythm Pattern
Song Player
MIDI Master Keyboard
DAW ControlOTHER SECTIONControllersAssignable Wheel x 2
Assignable Control knob x 8
Master Volume knob
Damper Pedal
Assignable Pedal x 2Rated Power Output6 W x 2SpeakersFull Range 12 cm x 2
Tweeter 2 cm x 2DisplayGraphic LCD 128 x 64 dotsExternal Storage DeviceUSB flash driveConnectorsPHONES jack: stereo 1/4-inch phone type
OUTPUT jacks (L/MONO, R): 1/4-inch phone type
MIC INPUT jack: 1/4-inch phone type
LINE INPUT Jack: Stereo miniature phone type
Pedal (DAMPER, FC1, FC2) jacks: TRS phone type
MIDI OUT jack
USB MEMORY port
USB COMPUTER port (supports USB MIDI/AUDIO)
DC IN jackPower SupplyDC 12 V: AC adaptorCurrent Draw1,500 mAAccessoriesOwner's manual
Leaflet "USING THE UNIT SAFELY"
AC adaptor
Power cord
Pedal SwitchOptions (sold separately)Stand (KS-12, KS-10Z)
Pedal (DP-2, DP-10, EV-5, RPU-3)
Carrying Bag: (CB-88RL, CB-76RL)
Headphones
USB Flash drive (*)SIZE AND WEIGHTDimensions1,284 (W) x 258 (D) x 159 (H) mm
50-9/16 (W) x 10-3/16 (D) x 6-5/16 (H) inchesWeight13.5 kg / 29 lbs 13 oz (excluding AC adaptor)


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3025786 01/25/20 10:30 PM
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Hmmm, RD-88 in combination with the FA-06 has endless possibilities (mine has the DB-1 Ocean Beach drawbars)! Wonder if Axial sounds will be available for the RD-88? The PHA4 action was one of the main reasons I loved the RD-800. smile


Plan your work & work your plan.
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3025803 01/26/20 01:02 AM
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I'm very interested in the rd as a controller for my computer setup, and Bonus that is has its own sounds and speakers!

But I listen to the demos of the rotary with the organ sounds and I just wonder, how does it even get into production with that sound?!! I know its not supposed to be a clone, but I cant imagine using that rotary sound, EVER! In a pinch, i'd just leave off the rotary effect and live with slow or stopped! People have said it before, but come on this is 2020!!! Forget flying cars, i'd just like manufacturers to actually listen to a real rotary speaker and get 70% there!! Its like they've never actually heard the real thing!!

Sorry, rant over! wink

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3025804 01/26/20 01:31 AM
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I didn't think any of the sounds were even decent on Soundcloud, or vids I've seen from NAMM.

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3025809 01/26/20 02:08 AM
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There RD-2000 is loaded with bread and butter sounds - how many of them we like is another story. Obviously the RD-88 at its price point is going to have a narrower set. As mentioned a few posts ago - having a few decent timbres on board with speakers is handy - but I’m mainly interested in the PH4 action at this price and weight with audio/midi interface and mapped controls with visual feedback from MainStage.

That being the case - the biggest question for me is - is the USB audio interface class compliant on Mac OSX or does it use a Roland driver? How low can you set the buffer with it and is the DA conversion any good?


Live: Casio PX-560, Roland VR-700
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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: rickzjamm] #3025841 01/26/20 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by rickzjamm
Hmmm, RD-88 in combination with the FA-06 has endless possibilities (mine has the DB-1 Ocean Beach drawbars)! Wonder if Axial sounds will be available for the RD-88? The PHA4 action was one of the main reasons I loved the RD-800. smile


I think that Roland marketing crew made a golden decision to name all the actions as PHA IV. Then, people like you think Roland put key action from the flagship RD-800 into boards like RD-88, FP-10, FP-30 etc. It's not true. PHA IV Standard has different design from PHA IV Concert and Premium. PHA IV Standard is based on previous Ivory Feel G, while the Premium and Concert are based on Ivory Feel S and PHA III. The G and Standard action have weighting different from the full size PHAs and significantly shorter pivot length (however it is not very short) . It is not a bad action, but the Roland nomenclature is a bit confusing here. It becomes good or even very good action if a board like FP-10 features it.

PHA-50 is also based on the PHA4 Concert action but contains wooden sides, not the wood-like coloured plastic core like PHA III or PHA IV Concert had. Roland Grand Hybrid is based on PHA-50 but has way longer pivot length.


Yamaha P-515, Roland FA-07, Hammond XK-1c, Presonus Eris E5, AKG K271 MKII, Laney AH80
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3025845 01/26/20 12:20 PM
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Dammmmmmmmm! frown


Plan your work & work your plan.
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: pawelsz] #3025849 01/26/20 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by pawelsz
Originally Posted by rickzjamm
Hmmm, RD-88 in combination with the FA-06 has endless possibilities (mine has the DB-1 Ocean Beach drawbars)! Wonder if Axial sounds will be available for the RD-88? The PHA4 action was one of the main reasons I loved the RD-800. smile


I think that Roland marketing crew made a golden decision to name all the actions as PHA IV. Then, people like you think Roland put key action from the flagship RD-800 into boards like RD-88, FP-10, FP-30 etc. It's not true. PHA IV Standard has different design from PHA IV Concert and Premium. PHA IV Standard is based on previous Ivory Feel G, while the Premium and Concert are based on Ivory Feel S and PHA III. The G and Standard action have weighting different from the full size PHAs and significantly shorter pivot length (however it is not very short) . It is not a bad action, but the Roland nomenclature is a bit confusing here. It becomes good or even very good action if a board like FP-10 features it.

PHA-50 is also based on the PHA4 Concert action but contains wooden sides, not the wood-like coloured plastic core like PHA III or PHA IV Concert had. Roland Grand Hybrid is based on PHA-50 but has way longer pivot length.


Oh that’s a shame. Not surprising - Yamaha does the same with GH, GHS, etc.
Although Roland seems even more convoluted.
Either way, we all know we’ve got to try before buy.


Live: Casio PX-560, Roland VR-700
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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3025851 01/26/20 01:27 PM
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Yes, the action should be the same as you would find on FP30 , correct?


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Kronos X61,
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3025853 01/26/20 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
Originally Posted by pawelsz
Originally Posted by rickzjamm
Hmmm, RD-88 in combination with the FA-06 has endless possibilities (mine has the DB-1 Ocean Beach drawbars)! Wonder if Axial sounds will be available for the RD-88? The PHA4 action was one of the main reasons I loved the RD-800. smile


I think that Roland marketing crew made a golden decision to name all the actions as PHA IV. Then, people like you think Roland put key action from the flagship RD-800 into boards like RD-88, FP-10, FP-30 etc. It's not true. PHA IV Standard has different design from PHA IV Concert and Premium. PHA IV Standard is based on previous Ivory Feel G, while the Premium and Concert are based on Ivory Feel S and PHA III. The G and Standard action have weighting different from the full size PHAs and significantly shorter pivot length (however it is not very short) . It is not a bad action, but the Roland nomenclature is a bit confusing here. It becomes good or even very good action if a board like FP-10 features it.

PHA-50 is also based on the PHA4 Concert action but contains wooden sides, not the wood-like coloured plastic core like PHA III or PHA IV Concert had. Roland Grand Hybrid is based on PHA-50 but has way longer pivot length.


Oh that’s a shame. Not surprising - Yamaha does the same with GH, GHS, etc.
Although Roland seems even more convoluted.
Either way, we all know we’ve got to try before buy.


True, but this discussion is pointing to red flags being the newly branded version of the same action and not very editable SuperNATURAL AP/EP tones that I couldn’t get with in the RD64. Fingers crossed on the latter till I can download an owners manual!


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Ravenscroft | Neo-Soul Keys Studio 2 | Acoustic Samples V-Tines | iSymphonic | Pure Synth Platinum | iFretless | Module Pro |
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: drawback] #3025855 01/26/20 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by drawback
Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
Originally Posted by pawelsz
Originally Posted by rickzjamm
Hmmm, RD-88 in combination with the FA-06 has endless possibilities (mine has the DB-1 Ocean Beach drawbars)! Wonder if Axial sounds will be available for the RD-88? The PHA4 action was one of the main reasons I loved the RD-800. smile


I think that Roland marketing crew made a golden decision to name all the actions as PHA IV. Then, people like you think Roland put key action from the flagship RD-800 into boards like RD-88, FP-10, FP-30 etc. It's not true. PHA IV Standard has different design from PHA IV Concert and Premium. PHA IV Standard is based on previous Ivory Feel G, while the Premium and Concert are based on Ivory Feel S and PHA III. The G and Standard action have weighting different from the full size PHAs and significantly shorter pivot length (however it is not very short) . It is not a bad action, but the Roland nomenclature is a bit confusing here. It becomes good or even very good action if a board like FP-10 features it.

PHA-50 is also based on the PHA4 Concert action but contains wooden sides, not the wood-like coloured plastic core like PHA III or PHA IV Concert had. Roland Grand Hybrid is based on PHA-50 but has way longer pivot length.


Oh that’s a shame. Not surprising - Yamaha does the same with GH, GHS, etc.
Although Roland seems even more convoluted.
Either way, we all know we’ve got to try before buy.


True, but this discussion is pointing to red flags being the newly branded version of the same action and not very editable SuperNATURAL AP/EP tones that I couldn’t get with in the RD64. Fingers crossed on the latter till I can download an owners manual!




They did state that the RD88 is going to be included with the Zen Core compatible instruments - including the FA models via a firmware update.


Live: Casio PX-560, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k, Yamaha S90ES
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: drawback] #3025860 01/26/20 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by drawback
Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
Originally Posted by pawelsz
Originally Posted by rickzjamm
Hmmm, RD-88 in combination with the FA-06 has endless possibilities (mine has the DB-1 Ocean Beach drawbars)! Wonder if Axial sounds will be available for the RD-88? The PHA4 action was one of the main reasons I loved the RD-800. smile


I think that Roland marketing crew made a golden decision to name all the actions as PHA IV. Then, people like you think Roland put key action from the flagship RD-800 into boards like RD-88, FP-10, FP-30 etc. It's not true. PHA IV Standard has different design from PHA IV Concert and Premium. PHA IV Standard is based on previous Ivory Feel G, while the Premium and Concert are based on Ivory Feel S and PHA III. The G and Standard action have weighting different from the full size PHAs and significantly shorter pivot length (however it is not very short) . It is not a bad action, but the Roland nomenclature is a bit confusing here. It becomes good or even very good action if a board like FP-10 features it.

PHA-50 is also based on the PHA4 Concert action but contains wooden sides, not the wood-like coloured plastic core like PHA III or PHA IV Concert had. Roland Grand Hybrid is based on PHA-50 but has way longer pivot length.


Oh that’s a shame. Not surprising - Yamaha does the same with GH, GHS, etc.
Although Roland seems even more convoluted.
Either way, we all know we’ve got to try before buy.


True, but this discussion is pointing to red flags being the newly branded version of the same action and not very editable SuperNATURAL AP/EP tones that I couldn’t get with in the RD64. Fingers crossed on the latter till I can download an owners manual!



Yamaha had GH action (being called also as GHE Graded Hammer Effect) before GHS. And the S letter always was differentiating full size GH action from the GHS action which is more different from GH than Roland PHA IV Standard from PHA IV Premium and Concert. Forum PianoWorld has lots of photos of disassembled digital pianos so it's best source of info.
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2337383/Roland_PHA_vs_lightweight_acti.html

For RD-88 and other pianos featuring PHA IV Standard, I read many reviews that PHA IV Standard really is noticeable upgrade from the Ivory Feel-G and not only Roland crew say that. It is not a bad action, I wanted only to say not every PHA IV is mechanically identical. It is not the best, but good action, especially in low-budget pianos where you get from Roland very good action for the price of the whole instrument, whereas Yamaha is putting better actions in way more expensive pianos
I think the RD-88 is the long-awaiten successor of RD-300NX. I really appreciate its slim and short form with wheels above the keybed, low weight and its features even if the sound engine doesn't seem to change a lot. Roland SuperNatural sound engine isn't bad sounding. I find it not really natural in terms of raw piano sample, particurarly in middle register, but it is very clean sound, with deep bass, and you can play good sounding chords in quite low registers without getting much dissonance. Also, it has one of the best sounding sustains when playing long notes - it's rich with much resonance, while Yamaha has obvious short-looping even in flagship models, but I find the Yamaha raw samples, being the "root" of sound more natural. Roland SuperNatural fits also well in band context.


Yamaha P-515, Roland FA-07, Hammond XK-1c, Presonus Eris E5, AKG K271 MKII, Laney AH80
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: FJR] #3025874 01/26/20 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by rickzjamm
Wonder if Axial sounds will be available for the RD-88?

With Zen-Core compatibility between RD-88, Fantom, Jupiter, AX-Edge, I would think that it is likely that they will come out with expansions that would work with all of them.

Originally Posted by FJR
But I listen to the demos of the rotary with the organ sounds and I just wonder, how does it even get into production with that sound?!! I know its not supposed to be a clone, but I cant imagine using that rotary sound, EVER! In a pinch, i'd just leave off the rotary effect and live with slow or stopped! People have said it before, but come on this is 2020!!! Forget flying cars, i'd just like manufacturers to actually listen to a real rotary speaker and get 70% there!! Its like they've never actually heard the real thing!!

I suspect it may simply be beyond the effects capabilities of the boards. The Roland is not the worst I've heard.


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3026497 01/29/20 05:38 AM
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Ordered. Three weeks. Nice.

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3026688 01/30/20 01:12 AM
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I was thinking as follows when deciding on the sound and playability of a DP.
Sampled DPs like Yamaha’s P515 tend to have a lack of immediacy when playing. And then there’s that vast bunch of samples libraries to run on your computer.
Modeled DPs like Roland’s V-Piano in their FP-90 or RD-2000 are second to Pianoteq in my book.
Finally there’s the SuperNatural approach of the RD-88, seemingly combining the strengths of samples and modeling. So I got the RD-88.

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3026812 01/30/20 09:41 PM
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Back then...
Yamaha U1

Nowadays...
Kawai MP11SE
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3026826 01/30/20 10:14 PM
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She’s an interesting one. Last year she was plugging the MODX7.
Give her a few years and JR will have some competition. wink


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Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k, Yamaha S90ES
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3026831 01/30/20 10:29 PM
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She's a terrific talent ! And the keyboard sounds good too. Hard to come away with anything solid at NAMM but this very well could dominate that price point category. I'll be playing it myself when it hits the stores for something in the office. And maybe take for weekend get away vacations. The P-515 is kinda heavy for that.

An aside- I don't dig that drummer's groove with all the 16ths on the high-hat, and ride, at those faster tempos. Sounds nervous and edgey to me. No space/air between the beats. When I play with someone like that, it locks me in to a space that is uncomfortable and forces me to play a certain way.. I notice a lot of young Mill drummers play like this. Give the time a more open and breathing feel...relax !

Last edited by Dave Ferris; 01/30/20 10:33 PM.
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: AnotherScott] #3026834 01/30/20 11:01 PM
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The Zen-Core compatibility intrigues me, because depending on exactly how that's implemented in the real world, it pushes the RD-88's range of sound options much higher. I'm sure it doesn't turn into a Fantom, but if its even halfway useful, some players are going to raise eyebrows when they get a giant Fantom patch to suddenly appear. You certainly wouldn't buy this for that purpose first, but the potential is fascinating. Domi IS a fine player, such that if I had any doubts about the RD's general playability for its main purpose, she banished them. Her fluidity is the best ad I've seen for it.


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: GuiliClayder] #3026883 01/31/20 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by GuiliClayder



Tried to click on and got a “this video is private” notification.

I agree with DF, she IS talented, but I find a similar feeling... these chopmeisters don’t let the music BREATHE.
It gets tiring to listen to and keeps most non-practitioning folk away.....
For all their transcendental chops, Art and Oscar ALWAYS knew how to make music breathe!

Last edited by jimkost2002; 01/31/20 01:34 PM.

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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: jimkost2002] #3026886 01/31/20 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by jimkost2002
Originally Posted by GuiliClayder



Tried to click on and got a “this video is private” notification.


Doesn't work for me either anymore...


Back then...
Yamaha U1

Nowadays...
Kawai MP11SE
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: David Emm] #3026897 01/31/20 02:26 PM
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"The Zen-Core compatibility intrigues me, because depending on exactly how that's implemented in the real world, it pushes the RD-88's range of sound options much higher."

Yes, now that Roland announced Zen-Core "tones" are going to be able to be shared across many of their newest keyboards it makes this RD-88 that much more interesting. You would still need the ability to edit/tweak those tones and that could be done with a Jupiter Xm for example or Jupiter X, or of course a Fantom. Or maaaaybe...with an editor app for the RD-88 ? Zen-Core tones can be pretty powerful complex tones made of up to 4 partials and as I understand it, multiple LFOs, multiple filter options, step LFO. So yeah, I am really going to look at this board, especially as a complement to a Jupiter X. I still have my Fantom on trial basis but I think I am going to like a combo of Jupiter X + RD-88 more (and return the Fantom)


Kurzweil Forte 7, Mojo 61, Kurzweil PC361,
Kronos X61,
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: FJR] #3026909 01/31/20 03:41 PM
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hardtailkeys Offline
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Originally Posted by FJR

I'm very interested in the rd as a controller for my computer setup, and Bonus that is has its own sounds and speakers!

But I listen to the demos of the rotary with the organ sounds and I just wonder, how does it even get into production with that sound?!! I know its not supposed to be a clone, but I cant imagine using that rotary sound, EVER! In a pinch, i'd just leave off the rotary effect and live with slow or stopped! People have said it before, but come on this is 2020!!! Forget flying cars, i'd just like manufacturers to actually listen to a real rotary speaker and get 70% there!! Its like they've never actually heard the real thing!!

Sorry, rant over! wink


Just out of interest, why not go for the A-88mkII then if it's for a computer setup? Keys should be the same I think?

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: David Emm] #3026911 01/31/20 04:06 PM
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AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted by David Emm
The Zen-Core compatibility intrigues me...You certainly wouldn't buy this for that purpose first, but the potential is fascinating.

Maybe not "first" but I could at least see it being very significant. When the Grandstage was first announced with its Kronos engines. I had hoped that--as long as you stuck to programs created with those same engines (and stock samples)--you'd be able to load Kronos programs into it. If there were a <30 lb 88-key Korg that could load Kronos programs, yeah, I would probably buy it just for that. Do my programming at home, and play the sounds from the portable. So it will be interesting to see the full capabilities of Zen-Core and this compatibility.


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Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: hardtailkeys] #3026929 01/31/20 07:02 PM
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FJR Offline
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Originally Posted by hardtailkeys
Originally Posted by FJR

I'm very interested in the rd as a controller for my computer setup, and Bonus that is has its own sounds and speakers!

But I listen to the demos of the rotary with the organ sounds and I just wonder, how does it even get into production with that sound?!! I know its not supposed to be a clone, but I cant imagine using that rotary sound, EVER! In a pinch, i'd just leave off the rotary effect and live with slow or stopped! People have said it before, but come on this is 2020!!! Forget flying cars, i'd just like manufacturers to actually listen to a real rotary speaker and get 70% there!! Its like they've never actually heard the real thing!!

Sorry, rant over! wink


Just out of interest, why not go for the A-88mkII then if it's for a computer setup? Keys should be the same I think?


Less length
Built in audio interface
ability to list/navigate the patches on the keyboard display
Speakers for practicing
Wheels (hate the lever!!!!)
Slightly lighter...

oh yeah, forgot built-in (decent, I hope!) sounds for simple gigs that don't require the complexity of the computer setup...





Last edited by FJR; 01/31/20 07:07 PM.
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3027053 02/01/20 07:50 AM
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This intrigues me; will have to play one when they arrive in the stores. I have a dedicated SN piano - a Roland FP-50 - that occupies my teaching space; sometimes it's a go-to for solo piano stuff as well. The studio is up a couple flights of stairs,so shaving 10 lbs off of my portable DP is attractive; so is having the additional features and functions of the RD-88. Then there's the Z-Core Tone compatibility with the Fantom - for which I've already written several Tones.

Looking forward to hearing more, and playing one as well. Might be at GearFest though, unless I get to Fort Wayne sooner..


"Someday, we will look back on these days and laugh. It may be a maniacal laugh from within the confines of our padded cells, but it will be a laugh nonetheless" - Mr. Boffo.







Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3029122 02/15/20 02:56 AM
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According to Sweetwater, the RD-88 speakers and amp are:
Built-in Speakers:
2 x 4.7" woofer, 2 x .78" tweeter
Amplifier:
2 x 6W

Two 5” woofers? Nice.

And there’s a more in-depth demo:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2YSwj0wJu-E

Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3029126 02/15/20 04:00 AM
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like


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Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k, Yamaha S90ES
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3029268 02/16/20 01:26 PM
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aellison62 Offline
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Has anybody heard of a date when the RD88 will be in stock? I haven’t preordered yet but would love to try this out in next month?


Kurzweil Forte 7, Mojo 61, Kurzweil PC361,
Kronos X61,
Re: Roland RD-88 [Re: Jinkings] #3029272 02/16/20 02:00 PM
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Sweetwater says March.

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