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Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
franky46 #2934390 06/24/18 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: franky46
on ctrlr.org, user lloyd had the A*M*A*Z*I*N*G idea to try sysEx effects from the JD-Xi midi specification.


First of all, thanks for credit... but, even if I had the idea, you are the one who is developing it, so thanks for all the work you're doing!! cheers

Originally Posted By: franky46
Originally Posted By: Baggypants
Astounding work! Does this mean we might be able to change things like delay feedback and wetness amounts or hexachorus params?


I'm afraid no ... even JD-XA/Xi do not have this smile


In fact, the JD-Xi actually HAVE the options to modify delay feedbak and wetness amount... so if both synths share the same effect processor it could be possible, but I really don't know... It might be tested.
At the other hand, hexachorus is not present in JD-Xi, so it makes me think that maybe the effect engine is different in both machines, so SysEx messages wouldn't work...

Anyway, Franky is much more experienced in MIDI and SysEx messages than me, so I'm sure he will test everything and he will find lots of new funtions for our VR09.

As I said, thanks friend!! thu

Lloyd

Keyboard Corner Island
Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
franky46 #2934473 06/25/18 08:24 AM
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Is this ok such a delay in the editor? I'm changing parametres and it applies in 5-10 seconds

Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
franky46 #2934474 06/25/18 08:25 AM
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Is this ok such a delay in the editor? I'm changing parametres and it applies in 5-10 seconds

Last edited by M3llpak; 06/25/18 02:36 PM.
Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
whitenoise #2934475 06/25/18 08:26 AM
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Is this ok such a delay in the editor? I'm changing parametres and it applies in 5-10 seconds

Last edited by M3llpak; 06/25/18 02:37 PM.
Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
M3llpak #2934526 06/25/18 02:34 PM
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Sorry, forum is lagging

Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
Lloyds #2934655 06/26/18 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted By: Lloyds


In fact, the JD-Xi actually HAVE the options to modify delay feedbak and wetness amount... so if both synths share the same effect processor it could be possible, but I really don't know... It might be tested.
At the other hand, hexachorus is not present in JD-Xi, so it makes me think that maybe the effect engine is different in both machines, so SysEx messages wouldn't work...


you're right, found it in the user manual, so delay feedback must be one of the "delay effects" specified in the JD-midi spec.
SysEx address space for effects is totally different from the JDs.
Where did you find wetness amount? Is there an other name?

Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
franky46 #2934767 06/26/18 05:34 PM
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A quick internet search for "Roland Hexachorus" brought up the Roland RD-800 stage piano and this rather comprehensive FX parameter guide http://cdn.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/RD-800_Parameter_Guide_e01_W.pdf Although it's likely to be a red herring it would fit the apparent magpie construction method of the VR-09.

Last edited by Baggypants; 06/26/18 05:39 PM.
Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
Baggypants #2934838 06/27/18 04:11 AM
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I haven't posted much here recently, mostly because I feel out of my depth in the discussion of Franky's amazing sounding editor. I haven't looked at it yet, mainly because of lack of time, but also because I am always a bit scared of new bits of technology ......

However, I am currently feeling brave and might give it a go. Can I just ask a few questions first?

1. Franky, do you work for Roland? Is it an official Roland product? (Judging by the reaction to it here, if it isn't, it ought to be....)

2. Would you say that it would be easy to use by someone who is a bit of a techno dunce?

3. Can you edit the vr09 with it and then easily save your changes so that you never need to perform with the computer?

4. In the past in this thread, there was a discussion about a problem in the VR09 in which if you made deep edits on a sound and then saved it, it would somehow mess up other sounds which were also on the same USB stick.

I never totally understood the bug or its implications, but it worried me sufficiently to stop me from delving deeply into any of the sounds. (As I mostly use the vr for organ sounds, this has not been a huge problem to me.)

Is there a danger that if I start making edits with your editor that I would trigger this issue and damage my other sounds?

Sorry for the moronic questions but I do struggle with this sort of thing...


"Turn your fingers into a dust rag and keep them keys clean!" wink Bluzeyone
Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
xKnuckles #2934841 06/27/18 06:29 AM
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@ Baggypants: thanks, I'll follow your hint


@ Knuckles

> 1. do you work for Roland? Is it an official Roland product? (Judging by the reaction to it here, if it isn't, it ought to be....)
no and no and no. Roland and their suppliers even deleted all comments about the editor from their official youtube channels grin
No commercial background, no posing, just curiosity, the pleasure to learn and develop (midi, new programming language - f*cking LUA wink ) and let people participate

Anyway , merits have to go to the guy from Italy who created the first version of the editor on CTRLR. I only adapted it to VR firmware 1.12 ... (ok, added some stuff later... ;))
And of course Roman from Poland who gave us CTRLR, the base for hundreds of panels.

> 2. Would you say that it would be easy to use by someone who is a bit of a techno dunce?

well, let's hope so. If not, it'll good to know to make it more easy.
Setup is plug and play. Once installed, you just plug your PC to the VR and start the program. There are paper and youtube tutorials that might help. And this forum.
About handling, the editor surface is 'inspired' by the Roland VR09 iPad app, which has the same surface as the Juno-80 touch panel, the Gaia synth, the Integra-7 app etc.

> 3. Can you edit the vr09 with it and then easily save your changes so that you never need to perform with the computer?

with exception of the GM2 part: yes you can save them to the registrations, e.g. with the editor you can layer 2 + 4 sounds (2 at lower manual, 4 at upper), save them to a registration and play (even if the VR LCD screen only shows 2 of them).

> 4. In the past in this thread, there was a discussion about a problem in the VR09 in which if you made deep edits on a sound and then saved it,

a guy from youtube recently wrote that this bug has been fixed with VR firmware upgrade 1.11/1.12. Forget to verify that. Give you an answer the next days.

> Sorry for the moronic questions

what moronic question? There where serious questions.
It's the old thinking of software developers, IT engineers that if people do not understand their 'sophisticated' products, it's because people are dumb. It's still in the heads of both sides.





Last edited by franky46; 06/27/18 06:38 AM.
Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
franky46 #2934846 06/27/18 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted By: franky46
with the editor you can layer 2 + 4 sounds (2 at lower manual, 4 at upper), save them to a registration and play (even if the VR LCD screen only shows 2 of them).


I missed this first time round - very intriguing! So you can layer four sounds on the VR09 + 2 sounds from a lower-tier controller? Can you split these in any way?

Cheers, Mike


AX48.PM351.FC7.VFP2
One or two keyboards.
Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
franky46 #2935014 06/28/18 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted By: franky46
@ Baggypants: thanks, I'll follow your hint


@ Knuckles

> 1. do you work for Roland? Is it an official Roland product? (Judging by the reaction to it here, if it isn't, it ought to be....)
no and no and no. Roland and their suppliers even deleted all comments about the editor from their official youtube channels grin
No commercial background, no posing, just curiosity, the pleasure to learn and develop (midi, new programming language - f*cking LUA wink ) and let people participate

Anyway , merits have to go to the guy from Italy who created the first version of the editor on CTRLR. I only adapted it to VR firmware 1.12 ... (ok, added some stuff later... ;))
And of course Roman from Poland who gave us CTRLR, the base for hundreds of panels.

> 2. Would you say that it would be easy to use by someone who is a bit of a techno dunce?

well, let's hope so. If not, it'll good to know to make it more easy.
Setup is plug and play. Once installed, you just plug your PC to the VR and start the program. There are paper and youtube tutorials that might help. And this forum.
About handling, the editor surface is 'inspired' by the Roland VR09 iPad app, which has the same surface as the Juno-80 touch panel, the Gaia synth, the Integra-7 app etc.

> 3. Can you edit the vr09 with it and then easily save your changes so that you never need to perform with the computer?

with exception of the GM2 part: yes you can save them to the registrations, e.g. with the editor you can layer 2 + 4 sounds (2 at lower manual, 4 at upper), save them to a registration and play (even if the VR LCD screen only shows 2 of them).

> 4. In the past in this thread, there was a discussion about a problem in the VR09 in which if you made deep edits on a sound and then saved it,

a guy from youtube recently wrote that this bug has been fixed with VR firmware upgrade 1.11/1.12. Forget to verify that. Give you an answer the next days.

> Sorry for the moronic questions

what moronic question? There where serious questions.
It's the old thinking of software developers, IT engineers that if people do not understand their 'sophisticated' products, it's because people are dumb. It's still in the heads of both sides.






Thanks very much Franky. I am shocked to hear that Roland has been deleting comments about your editor. I would have thought they would be THRILLED that you had gone to all this work. After all, anything which makes their keyboards better for us can only be good for them.... Sometimes the workings of the corporate mind is beyond comprehension.

I feel most encouraged to try your editor, but I will await your answer about whether the bug has been fixed with the firmware upgrade. I need to know that If I start exploring I will not cause any damage....

Many thanks! smile


"Turn your fingers into a dust rag and keep them keys clean!" wink Bluzeyone
Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
stoken6 #2935030 06/28/18 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted By: stoken6

So you can layer four sounds on the VR09 + 2 sounds from a lower-tier controller? Can you split these in any way?


(1) take a look at the first picture, the upper "voices" control bar of the editor :

in this example 6 voices are switched on (big blue switches Str Pad .. Juno Str 2):
4 voices (layered) in the upper manual (UM1-VCE, UM1-SYN, UM2-VCE, UM2-SYN)
2 voices (layered) in the lower manual (LM-VCE, LM-SYN)

With the organ also ON (blue switch ORG) you have 5 sounds in the upper, 3 in the lower and 1 in pedal (organ bass)

It does not matter if you play lower manual on the splitted VR09-keybed or an external midi controller keyboard

You can save this complete setting with all it's layers to a VR-registration (using the hardware buttons on the VR) and recall it without tablet/PC.




(2) now look at the 2nd picture: layering can be pushed further:

with an external controller keyboard you can play the 'hidden' GM (General Midi) sounds of the VR (they come from an additional, built-in sound generator, which, for example, delivers the drum kits for the build-in rhythms or is the GM-sounds for replaying midi-song-files from the usb-stick) which adds another 15 (16 midi channels minus drum channel 10) layers.

The picture shows the GM-control section of the editor:
you can select ~260 official GM2-sounds (by name) + another 1000-2000 (unnamed) sounds (variations for piano/e-piano, pipe organs and any kind of accoustic instrument + many really nice vintage synth sounds) using either direct program change addressing or 'preselected banks'. Then you can modify the sounds with the GM-EFX, envelope, cutoff/resonance etc and save the resulting sound to your tablet/PC.

If you do not have an external keyboard, you can use the tablet/PC + some (free) programs to 'loop back' keystrokes of the VR into the GM2 sound generator.
I use Copperlan (Midi splitter) + TransMidiFier (for looping back the key-on/off signals to the VR) + VR editor and I can play all the GM sounds on the VR-keybed.

Notice: layering has it's limitation in polyphony of the VR...



Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
xKnuckles #2935039 06/28/18 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted By: xKnuckles


Thanks very much Franky. I am shocked to hear that Roland has been deleting comments about your editor. I would have thought they would be THRILLED that you had gone to all this work.


It's most likely because Franky's panel for CTRL exposes the programmed shortcomings in the VR-09/730 Shortcomings easily rectified by firmware update.

I love my VR-09 but haven't really gigged with it yet. Now with Franky's CTRL panel, I can set it up the way I need to incorporate into my Mainstage Rig.


David
Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Arturia Keylab 61 | Mac Mini | Mainstage

Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
EscapeRocks #2935064 06/28/18 01:02 PM
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It seems that Roland has always done things to thwart their brand from collaborating with other manufacturers and third party developers. Makes me wonder how Dave Smith ever convinced them to adopt and help implement MIDI as the industry standard way back in the day.

I loved my VR09 and vehemently defended it until Roland refused to sell me a pitch bend assembly so I can replace the one that has gone faulty in my out-of-warranty machine. I now have to ship my keyboard to the nearest authorized repair shop that happens to be about a two-hour drive. The total cost of shipping and repair could easily surpass $300 and likely take several weeks. I have replaced this part in several other Rolands over the years. It takes less than an hour and costs little more than 50 bucks.

I am still so ticked off at Roland, I hate to even play my own keys anymore and have begun the search to replace all of the Rolands in my collection.

After 30+ years of supporting their brand, I hate the name now.


Gig: MODX7; QSC K12; JBL PRX615M
Others: Vortex2; Deepmind12; ES100; MS2000R; Fantom X7,
JX10, S550, VK1000, VR09; Numa Compact2X; EX5, SY55 & 77.
https://soundcloud.com/brad-renner
Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
brenner13 #2935067 06/28/18 01:12 PM
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Few companies sell parts to end users anymore. Best to check some of the scavengers. This might work...?

http://www.keyboardkountry.com/roland-juno-d-g-stage-e09-complete-joystick-assembly/


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
AnotherScott #2935074 06/28/18 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Few companies sell parts to end users anymore. Best to check some of the scavengers. This might work...?

http://www.keyboardkountry.com/roland-juno-d-g-stage-e09-complete-joystick-assembly/


Nice! Now, how do I get replacement caps for the drawbar sliders?


Soul, R&B, Pop from Los Angeles
http://philipclark.com

King Super 20 Alto, Yamaha MX61, Roland VR-09, MicroKorg XL, Maschine Mikro, M-Audio ProKeys88sx, Roland MKS-50
Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
Dreamchilde #2935097 06/28/18 03:03 PM
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I've websearched the part before and had not come across this company. I'll give 'em a try.
Thanks Scott!


Gig: MODX7; QSC K12; JBL PRX615M
Others: Vortex2; Deepmind12; ES100; MS2000R; Fantom X7,
JX10, S550, VK1000, VR09; Numa Compact2X; EX5, SY55 & 77.
https://soundcloud.com/brad-renner
Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
xKnuckles #2935098 06/28/18 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: xKnuckles

I feel most encouraged to try your editor, but I will await your answer about whether the bug has been fixed with the firmware upgrade. I need to know that If I start exploring I will not cause any damage....




1.) we verified what has been said on youtube using the ipad-app and the editor: I CANNOT confirm that this 'bug' has been solved with firmware.
The modification of a a sound is still global, that means that changing e.g. sound A and saving it to a registration
will change all sounds A (the sound from the SYNTH selector, all sounds A in other registrations...).

2.) maybe we should not use the word 'damage' in this context: a modified factory sound can at any time be 'restored'
by selecting the sound and pressing the SYNTH-button (below the LCD-panel) + the EXIT button (see Roland VR09 manual).
The LCD-screen says 'initialize' and the sound is back to factory state.

3.) Workaround to overcome this 'registration bug':
the editor delivers a 'workaround' to get around this problem: it offers a registration on it's own where you can save
modified sounds independently from the VR-registrations

The EDITOR-registration is on the SYNTHESIZER-tab (the 'bank' button with the 'patch' buttons 1-8)

1. using the editor for live play:
- on the VR select a desired sound you want to edit
- on the SYNTHESIZER-Tab edit this sound
- on the SYNTHESIZER-Tab save this sound to the EDITOR-registration
- on stage, load the sound from the EDITOR-registration to a voice

2. without using the editor for live play:
- on the VR select a desired sound A you want to edit. Do NOT edit yet
- save this sound to the EDITOR-registration
- on the VR select a sound B that you do not like and never will use.
- load sound A back from the EDITOR-registration and edit in in the SYNTHESIZER tab
- save this sounds A' to any VR-registration (e..g 1-4). The modified sound A' will now overwrite the 'silly sound' B.

both sounds A and A' will be available, sound A where it is used to be and sound A' under the name of sound B

Example:
- on the VR, select JP8-Brass
- on the SYNTHESIZER-Tab save it to the EDITOR-registration bank-1/patch-2 under the name of "JP8-Brass2"
- on the VR, select a stupid sound like 'SFX : FX9'
- on the SYNTHESIZER-Tab load back "JP8-Brass2" from the EDITOR-registration
- on the SYNTHESIZER-Tab edit (change synth parameters) this sound
- save to any VR-registration, e.g. 1-2
- now if you select SFX:FX9 you will hear JP8-Brass2. You can even delete the VR-registration 1-2 and FX9 will still be JP8-Brass2





Last edited by franky46; 06/28/18 03:17 PM.
Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
franky46 #2935186 06/28/18 11:45 PM
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I will not post in a bad mood from my job. I will not post in a bad mood from my job. I will not post in a bad mood from my job. I will not post in a bad mood from my job. I will not post in a bad mood from my job. I will not post in a bad mood from my job. I will not post in a bad mood from my job. I will not post in a bad mood from my job. I will not post in a bad mood from my job. I will not post in a bad mood from my job. I will not post in a bad mood from my job. I will not post in a bad mood from my job. I will not post in a bad mood from my job. I will not post in a bad mood from my job. I will not post in a bad mood from my job. I will not post in a bad mood from my job. I will not post in a bad mood from my job. I will not post in a bad mood from my job. I will not post in a bad mood from my job. I will not post in a bad mood from my job. I will not post in a bad mood from my job. I will not post in a bad mood from my job. I will not post in a bad mood from my job. I will not post in a bad mood from my job.

There! Penance is paid. Finally got home and pounded out some frustrations. This stupid Roland just sounds so damn good sometimes. And this app Franky46 has done makes it so darned accessible. Still ticked at Roland, but at least I won't set my R-keys on fire...just yet. Stupid VR09...jams out so sweet.


Gig: MODX7; QSC K12; JBL PRX615M
Others: Vortex2; Deepmind12; ES100; MS2000R; Fantom X7,
JX10, S550, VK1000, VR09; Numa Compact2X; EX5, SY55 & 77.
https://soundcloud.com/brad-renner
Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
brenner13 #2935306 06/29/18 03:28 PM
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This weekend Iím going to create 6 differently detuned supersaw patches and layer them all up smile

Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
Baggypants #2935711 07/02/18 11:45 AM
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Hello


Editor 1.12.8 BETA for TESTING/PREVIEW :

http://ctrlr.org/?ddownload=84434

main changes:

* modified left side bar with new 'PANEL' tripple-switch:
SOUND: sound/live play panel tabulators
upg-editor: (moved away from the tabulators to multi-switch)
kbd-config: Midi config, footpedals/switches, transpose/tune, funny 'harmony-intelligence'
* SYNTHESIZER-tab: new effects , 'read' button to load the synth-data from the VR (automatic read does not really work)
* GM2-tab: fix: sound patch selection, + 30 GM-drumkits + new effects
* Atelier-tab: fixed drum sets
* V-Keyboard-tab: + GM-drumkit selector for build-in rhythms + effects


did not yet identify delay feedback and hexachorus parameters, as the VR-EFX section is an extension of the Atelier-Organ sound engine and I did not find any similarities to other Roland synths or pianos.


contribution to Roland-bashing: there are still young bands putting the old Acetone Ur-Roland organ beasts on stage, beautyfull
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXjrezyX02E

Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
M3llpak #2935713 07/02/18 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted By: M3llpak
Is this ok such a delay in the editor? I'm changing parametres and it applies in 5-10 seconds


from VR to editor or inverse?

if you turn an Editor-knob like overdrive from 0 to full, the VR will take some take to 'eat' the 128 midi signals (due to the slow midi-buffer of the VR). if you turn a knob on the VR, the editor reacts quite quick.

In either case 5-10 sec. is NOT normal.

what operating system are you running?

Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
franky46 #2935784 07/02/18 04:18 PM
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For instance, i'm changing oscillators in the SYNTH-tab. And i dont hear changes immediately. It takes 5-10 seconds for this. Even it's heard clearly when changing all of the oscillators or other parameters and after 5 seconds it applies consistently one after another in the way you changed it. And when it occurs, it doesnt respond for turning knobs on the Roland. It needs to pass 5-10 seconds and i can regulate anything again until another delay.

I'm running Windows 7. RAM 8GB, CPU i7-4770K.

Last edited by M3llpak; 07/02/18 06:41 PM.
Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
M3llpak #2935848 07/02/18 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted By: M3llpak
For instance, i'm changing oscillators in the SYNTH-tab. And i dont hear changes immediately. It takes 5-10 seconds for this. Even it's heard clearly when changing all of the oscillators or other parameters and after 5 seconds it applies consistently one after another in the way you changed it. And when it occurs, it doesnt respond for turning knobs on the Roland. It needs to pass 5-10 seconds and i can regulate anything again until another delay.

I'm running Windows 7. RAM 8GB, CPU i7-4770K.


not normal. On the editor if you switch the CTRLR Menu bar on (button "MENU SHOW") there's a menu option "Tools".
Select Midi Monitor (or simply press ctrl-M). On the appearing monitor window select menu option 'View' and switch on "Monitor Input" and "Monitor output".
Check if there's a delay between moving a slider (on the VR or the editor) and its corresponding midi signal (the timer messages on the input monitor cannot be turned off, but you should be able to see the midi signals rolling through).
Do you see delays on the input or output?

Which version of CTRLR platform do you use?

Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
franky46 #2935985 07/03/18 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: franky46
Originally Posted By: xKnuckles

I feel most encouraged to try your editor, but I will await your answer about whether the bug has been fixed with the firmware upgrade. I need to know that If I start exploring I will not cause any damage....




1.) we verified what has been said on youtube using the ipad-app and the editor: I CANNOT confirm that this 'bug' has been solved with firmware.
The modification of a a sound is still global, that means that changing e.g. sound A and saving it to a registration
will change all sounds A (the sound from the SYNTH selector, all sounds A in other registrations...).

2.) maybe we should not use the word 'damage' in this context: a modified factory sound can at any time be 'restored'
by selecting the sound and pressing the SYNTH-button (below the LCD-panel) + the EXIT button (see Roland VR09 manual).
The LCD-screen says 'initialize' and the sound is back to factory state.

3.) Workaround to overcome this 'registration bug':
the editor delivers a 'workaround' to get around this problem: it offers a registration on it's own where you can save
modified sounds independently from the VR-registrations

The EDITOR-registration is on the SYNTHESIZER-tab (the 'bank' button with the 'patch' buttons 1-8)

1. using the editor for live play:
- on the VR select a desired sound you want to edit
- on the SYNTHESIZER-Tab edit this sound
- on the SYNTHESIZER-Tab save this sound to the EDITOR-registration
- on stage, load the sound from the EDITOR-registration to a voice

2. without using the editor for live play:
- on the VR select a desired sound A you want to edit. Do NOT edit yet
- save this sound to the EDITOR-registration
- on the VR select a sound B that you do not like and never will use.
- load sound A back from the EDITOR-registration and edit in in the SYNTHESIZER tab
- save this sounds A' to any VR-registration (e..g 1-4). The modified sound A' will now overwrite the 'silly sound' B.

both sounds A and A' will be available, sound A where it is used to be and sound A' under the name of sound B

Example:
- on the VR, select JP8-Brass
- on the SYNTHESIZER-Tab save it to the EDITOR-registration bank-1/patch-2 under the name of "JP8-Brass2"
- on the VR, select a stupid sound like 'SFX : FX9'
- on the SYNTHESIZER-Tab load back "JP8-Brass2" from the EDITOR-registration
- on the SYNTHESIZER-Tab edit (change synth parameters) this sound
- save to any VR-registration, e.g. 1-2
- now if you select SFX:FX9 you will hear JP8-Brass2. You can even delete the VR-registration 1-2 and FX9 will still be JP8-Brass2





Hi Franky. Thank you so much for your detailed response to my concerns. I have read through your workaround a few times to get my head round it. As far as I can understand, you are saying although that there is indeed still a danger of alterations having a global effect on any sounds in the Vr which happen to have used them, it is possible to make an alternative version to a sound and then save both it, and the original sound (but at the expense of a sacrificial, unloved, other sound...)

This is clever. After due consideration though, i am afraid it won't alleviate my worries. On my VR I have an odd hotchpotch of registrations (filling rather a lot of the slots.) They are for all the bands I play with; so although some get used every week, some get used only every few months. They are a mixture of adapted factory sounds, things I have put together, and the cover band collection. I have no idea what is in some lf them. It would be just my luck therefore, that the sacrificial sound would turn out to be some essential part of a song which I would not play till Christmas.....at which time I would get a nasty shock and not understand why.

How likely is this to actually be the case? Not very, I realise. But even the possibility of it would make me uneasy and cause me to worry about it. I like to always be certain that my sounds are safe, and adding even the slightest amount of doubt to that certainty is not worth the risk, to me.

So, regretfully, I shall continue to read about your wonderful editor from the sidelines, but I will not risk using it until that miraculous day in Brigadoon when Roland finally releases the firmware update which fixes the bug.....


"Turn your fingers into a dust rag and keep them keys clean!" wink Bluzeyone
Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
xKnuckles #2936042 07/04/18 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted By: xKnuckles

make an alternative version to a sound and then save both it, and the original sound (but at the expense of a sacrificial, unloved, other sound...)


you got it right (although only the 'alternative' sound has to be saved) and it's also clear that this 'workaround' has it's limitation, as there are only a few 'free places' to store modified sounds.
They only alternative (not very comfortable) would be to use of a bundle of USB-Sticks with each a registration set and the *.dat file (like that coming with coverband), the latter containing modified synth data for each set.

> but I will not risk using it until that miraculous day in Brigadoon when Roland finally releases the firmware update which fixes the bug.....

Strange things do happen actually - Stephen Mendes from youtube was so kind to redo his experiment (that saving a modified sounds does NOT alter the original sound), and he could reproduce it on his VR - but his is still running with firmware 1.03 (!) We do not know yet if this is really based on firmware or just a miracle but it would be crazy if this feature had been dropped on higher firmware version. Keep you informed.

Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
franky46 #2936231 07/05/18 08:25 AM
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Hi

could anybody with firmware 1.11/1.12 could do us a favor?

do some deep synth edit (Ipad or PC editor) on a patch (e.g. JP8 Brass), save it to a registration.
exit the registrations (e.g. switch the VR off/on)
select the sound from the sound patch switches on the VR (hardware)key SYNTH section (do not use the registration)

question: is this sound the original factory sound or the modified ?

Thanks

Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
franky46 #2936393 07/06/18 03:42 AM
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Hi Franky

I just created a username to reply to your request...

I have an original VR-09 which I have upgraded to version 1.12.
I am using your CTLR VR-09 Editor to edit synthesizer sounds.
I have edited the original "JP8 Brass" as you suggested, and merely changed the Pitch Envelope (which has an obvious effect on the sound).
I saved the sound to a Registration, and switched off the VR-09.
I then restarted the VR-09 and I can confirm that it definitely DOES update/overwrite the ORIGINAL MASTER sound for "JP8 Brass"!!!!

I tried to restore the original "JP8 Brass" sound, by saving/updating/overwriting a different unmodified, factory sound to the same registration number, but the modified "JP8 Brass" remained under the "Synth" area!
I also tried switching off and switching on the VR-09 a number of times, but the sound remains changed!
Fortunately, I only changed 1 setting, so I repeated all the steps above (edit/Re-set Envelope to original Settings, save to Registration, Switch Off), and it updated/overwrote the modified "JP8 Brass" under "Synth" area to it's original settings.

I am extremely surprised and totally disappointed with these findings, because I was convinced that it is impossible to update/overwrite any original master sound (which I thought were "read-only".)
But was I wrong!!!!
:-o

Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
RaymondInSA #2936403 07/06/18 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted By: RaymondInSA
Hi Franky

I just created a username to reply to your request...

I have an original VR-09 which I have upgraded to version 1.12.
I am using your CTLR VR-09 Editor to edit synthesizer sounds.
I have edited the original "JP8 Brass" as you suggested, and merely changed the Pitch Envelope (which has an obvious effect on the sound).
I saved the sound to a Registration, and switched off the VR-09.
I then restarted the VR-09 and I can confirm that it definitely DOES update/overwrite the ORIGINAL MASTER sound for "JP8 Brass"!!!!

I tried to restore the original "JP8 Brass" sound, by saving/updating/overwriting a different unmodified, factory sound to the same registration number, but the modified "JP8 Brass" remained under the "Synth" area!
I also tried switching off and switching on the VR-09 a number of times, but the sound remains changed!
Fortunately, I only changed 1 setting, so I repeated all the steps above (edit/Re-set Envelope to original Settings, save to Registration, Switch Off), and it updated/overwrote the modified "JP8 Brass" under "Synth" area to it's original settings.

I am extremely surprised and totally disappointed with these findings, because I was convinced that it is impossible to update/overwrite any original master sound (which I thought were "read-only".)
But was I wrong!!!!
:-o


Interesting find. In my opinion this is rather a feature than a bug. Now you can modify save and recall factory sounds without using registrations. If you want to get the factory sounds back you can always do a factory reset. But many of the factory sounds are useless anyway. Frranky, please keep this feature fluke!

Re: Roland V-Combo VR-09
RaymondInSA #2936417 07/06/18 08:38 AM
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Raymond, thanks a lot, so this confirms our experience with the new firmware.
Until 1.03 saving a modified sound to a registration only changed this sound in the other registrations but not the original factory preset from the SYNTH buttons.

Under the aspect of 'abusing' unused VR-patches as free registers, this behavior is in deed an advantage, in the way that you can save and recall a modified sound from the direct access buttons.

reminder: with the new firmware, a single modified sound can be reset to factory sound by pressing the 'quick select SYNTH-button' + EXIT (without the need of a global factory reset)



Last edited by franky46; 07/06/18 09:01 AM.
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