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Is there a digital piano with a great Rhodes patch?


konaboy

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I just sold my P250 which had a very good piano and Rhodes.

 

The Roland 700SX has a very good piano and if you are not thrilled with the Rhodes in that piano (I wasn't), you can buy a card I believe that offers possibilities.

 

There are also more brands from which to choose and many are happy with Promega, Nord, Kawai and Korg.

 

Your best bet would be to search through the many threads here ... and I'm sure Sven would advise that as well.

No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message.

 

In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments.

 

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Soundscape, konaboy asks a basic question (OK, one that has been asked many times), why not answer his question?

 

I for one use a piano sound 90 percent of the time and a Rhodes for the rest. Everything else for me at least is not necessary. A B3 sound is nice but without a decent piano or Rhodes sound a stage piano won't get much use from me. Maybe that's why they're called ... stage or digital pianos. :D

 

It really does seem difficult to get a piano sound and a Rhodes sound that everyone likes. I would love to offer my professional opinion to the manufacturers but they never give me a call.

 

I'll make a prediction - the follow up to the CP300 will have no speakers and will be thinner. There's no need for speakers on a stage piano.

No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message.

 

In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments.

 

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Originally posted by Dave Horne:

Soundscape, konaboy asks a basic question (OK, one that has been asked many times), why not answer his question?

He also made an entirely debatable claim... See http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/18/t/021149.html for me helping someone out with the question they asked. :eek:

 

This forum would be extremely boring if everything was 150% on topic--as it is it seems entirely navigable to me and typically the questions asked are answered.

 

Besides, he did actually ask:

 

"Isn't it strange that there are so few options?"

 

Originally posted by Dave Horne:

Maybe that's why they're called ... stage or digital pianos. :D

Right... but in the context of the entire market for keyboards... you've got to consider it ranges from people making "beats" using soft-synths to home keyboard players in the market for a digital piano for their living room (not necessarily discerning, even if spending 1000's) to soundtrack work (e.g., orchestral sample libraries) to live performance. So, the market for really high quality piano and rhodes "in a box" must be only a fraction of the overall keyboard market, which is already a specialized sector.
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Seriously, look at the Casio CDP-100. You might find the Rhodes and piano perfectly acceptable. If all I needed was Rhodes and piano, I would definately consider it as it is: very inexpensive, has a nice action; lightweight and highly portable. I like the Rhodes on the CDP-100 better than the other more expensive Casios. Why spend more if you don't need to.

 

Otherwise the P-120 is a good choice.

 

My preference is the Roland RD700SX with SRX-12 card. Excellent Rhodes. Cons: expensive and heavy.

 

Busch.

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Originally posted by soundscape:

Originally posted by konaboy:

After all piano & rhodes are arguably the most important sounds for a keyboard player.

Are they? What percentage of keyboard players use piano and rhodes primarily? Quite a few probably rarely or never use them.
If you asked player to name the two sounds they use the most, I would guess that piano+Rhodes would be one of the most common answers. I would think that piano+B3 would be another even more likely combination. Certainly neither would constitute a majority of players, but there's probably not anything else close to these two. So, in essence, his assertion is correct.

 

Konaboy, the best advice is to ignore people who want to argue over the premise of your question, but don't add anything useful.

 

BTW, the piano and Rhodes sounds on the Yamaha S90 are very good. If they're the same as the other Yamahas suggested, you'll probably be happy with one of them.

aka âmisterdregsâ

 

Nord Electro 5D 73

Yamaha P105

Kurzweil PC3LE7

Motion Sound KP200S

Schimmel 6-10LE

QSC CP-12

Westone AM Pro 30 IEMs

Rolls PM55P

 

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Originally posted by misterdregs:

Originally posted by soundscape:

Originally posted by konaboy:

After all piano & rhodes are arguably the most important sounds for a keyboard player.

Are they? What percentage of keyboard players use piano and rhodes primarily? Quite a few probably rarely or never use them.
If you asked player to name the two sounds they use the most, I would guess that piano+Rhodes would be one of the most common answers. I would think that piano+B3 would be another even more likely combination. Certainly neither would constitute a majority of players, but there's probably not anything else close to these two. So, in essence, his assertion is correct.
Piano and Rhodes are probably the most used sounds, and the piano has to be the most enduring and flexible sound of all, but that doesn't make them the *most important* sounds for keyboard players--e.g., in "dance" music based on synthetic sounds, they are quite unimportant sounds. Since the world of synthetic sounds is "infinite," even where there are certain characteristic sounds such as the "supersaw" trance lead there are many options for pads etc.; in other styles, there aren't necessarily one or two characteristic sounds.

 

He did appear to be asking or wondering why there weren't more options in this area, so I'm sorry if my answer wasn't enlightening.

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I appreciate all of your answers, thanks again. I did say that rhodes and piano were "arguably" the most important sounds so if someone wants to argue then that's fine!

 

I think that my current rig offers a terrific emulation of both sounds, a Yamaha P80 + Electro rack. However an upgrade to the P80 has been tempting me for many years, but it won't happen until there is a digital piano with acoustic and electric pianos (as good as the Electro) in the same box.

hang out with me at woody piano shack
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Originally posted by misterdregs:

BTW, the piano and Rhodes sounds on the Yamaha S90 are very good. If they're the same as the other Yamahas suggested, you'll probably be happy with one of them.

+1 :thu:

 

Unless a music store is blowing it out, might be hard to find an S90 new.

 

Also, check out the S90ES. Excellent piano and rhodes sounds under the same hood.

 

FWIW, I'm selling my S80 which has nice piano and Rhodes sounds too. While I use it mostly as a DP, it is a synth offering the full range of "other" sounds too.

 

Send me a PM if you have any questions. :cool:

PD

 

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

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Originally posted by konaboy:

I did say that rhodes and piano were "arguably" the most important sounds so if someone wants to argue then that's fine!

 

Always glad to oblige here at the Keyboard Corner! :D

aka âmisterdregsâ

 

Nord Electro 5D 73

Yamaha P105

Kurzweil PC3LE7

Motion Sound KP200S

Schimmel 6-10LE

QSC CP-12

Westone AM Pro 30 IEMs

Rolls PM55P

 

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Originally posted by ProfD:

Originally posted by misterdregs:

[qb]

 

Also, check out the S90ES. Excellent piano and rhodes sounds under the same hood.

This one gets my vote too.

 

JP

1935 Mason & Hamlin Model A

Korg Kronos 2 73

Nord Electro 6D 61

Yam S90ES

Rhodes Stage 73 (1972)

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Originally posted by soundscape:

Piano and Rhodes are probably the most used sounds, and the piano has to be the most enduring and flexible sound of all, but that doesn't make them the *most important* sounds for keyboard players--e.g.[/QB]

you're in contradiction to yourself :freak:
♫♫♫ motif XS6, RD700GX
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Hi, I'm new here, but I'll go ahead and jump in the deep end. :)

 

Maybe I'm just a throwback, but the three basic sounds I'm looking for are:

 

Hammond B3

Electric pianos (FenderRhodes, bonus for a nice Wurlie)

Acoustic Pianos (something bright, i.e. the old Yamaha CP70B)

 

I've been away from playing gigs for quite a while, but lately as I've been trying out keyboards its like technology has turned the old challenges on their heads.

 

It seems like its now far easier to get a great sounding, cost effective, portable B3 soundalike (clonewheel?), but you can't get a faithful recreation of the FenderRhodes that doesn't sound somehow synthesized?

 

Its almost worse with the digital stage pianos. I played a Yamaha CP300 that would be right at home as a concert piano (NTTIAWWT) or in my mother's living room its that realistic, but that sound is never going to cut through and still blend on the same stage with electric guitars... This the legacy of the CP70B? With speakers on the TOP where I'm going to want to stack another keyboard? They can't be serious, can they?

 

I'm with Konaboy, could do 90% of everything I'd ever want with just a good B3 emulation with real drawbars and an optional leslie (looking hard at the XK1) and a digital/stage piano that has a nice realistic variety of FenderRhodes and bright acoustic pianos (no strings, 80's synth sounds, etc. required). In fact, the more portable the better. I never used the extra 15 keys on my old suitcase 88 ;) so I doubt I'll need them now. :D

 

Maybe I'll see if there is a P120 or the like hiding in a local store somewhere used or on clearance.

 

John B.

 

PS. Mr Dregs, your sig takes me back to my days of driving in The City... No left turn signal required! :D

GP sacred cow of the year: Jimmy Vaughan
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Konaboy, have you ever considered a GEM PRP700? Regarding accoustic pianos it beats any Roland/Yamaha/Kawai by lengths, as do all DRAKE powered instruments by GEM...

 

The Rhodes are superior, too. Not as rough as on the Nord Stage, but this can be compensated with a tube amp. I think they're way better than on Yamaha and Roland.

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Originally posted by delirium:

Originally posted by soundscape:

Piano and Rhodes are probably the most used sounds, and the piano has to be the most enduring and flexible sound of all, but that doesn't make them the *most important* sounds for keyboard players--e.g.

you're in contradiction to yourself :freak:
What I mean is, if you ask someone who is interested in creating beats or whatever using a bunch of soft-synths, for them the pianos aren't the most important sound--they may never use them, in fact. Actually, if you start categorizing sounds, e.g., polykeys, pads, etc., rather than saying each one is different--in the same way that there are many different pianos and types of piano sound--then is piano THE most important for keyboardists as a whole?

 

I don't have the answer to this question, of course.

 

But on the topic of B3's--I did a Google search on kvraudio.com and found that there were 10000+ results for FM8--and less than 1500 for B4. The point is, (considering the original question) there are many markets for keyboards--e.g., Korg has products like the MS2000B, MicroKORG and Radias--(taking the industry as a whole) all resources aren't poured into piano and rhodes.

 

If I have to get rid of one sound for good, piano or orchestral hit, I choose piano. :D j/k

 

Originally posted by andi.k:

Konaboy, have you ever considered a GEM PRP700? Regarding accoustic pianos it beats any Roland/Yamaha/Kawai by lengths, as do all DRAKE powered instruments by GEM...

GEM pianos are great...
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Another vote for the Yamaha S90ES. Also try the GEM PRP700 if you can find one. Depends how you like your Rhodes really. Also the Kawai MP8 has a great piano and a rhodes that sounds good if you change the fx to overdrive and dial in just enough to add a bit of presence (r=3, d=11). The ES4/MP4 may be the same (not sure if they offer overdrive in the fx section). The best hardware Rhodes emulation imo is in Roland's SRX-12 expansion board. I don't like the RD700sx pianos but if you do then the expansion board will set you up nicely for Rhodes. Remember that alot of the sound of a Rhodes is in the fx. Just about any Rhodes patch through a Moog MuRF makes me smile. :D

Gig keys: Hammond SKpro, Korg Vox Continental, Crumar Mojo 61, Crumar Mojo Pedals

 

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Soundscape-

 

He didn't say that piano and Rhodes were the most important sounds for EVERY KB player. As has been pointed out, you yourself stated that "Piano and Rhodes are probably the most used sounds", and yet you say they aren't the "most important". That's like saying that while one candidate may have gotten the most votes, a fringe party guy who ran fourth is the "most important" because his supporters had no use at all for the top candidate.

 

I'm done, but I have a suspicion that Soundscape is not. ;)

aka âmisterdregsâ

 

Nord Electro 5D 73

Yamaha P105

Kurzweil PC3LE7

Motion Sound KP200S

Schimmel 6-10LE

QSC CP-12

Westone AM Pro 30 IEMs

Rolls PM55P

 

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Originally posted by b3_john:

Hi, I'm new here, but I'll go ahead and jump in the deep end. :)

 

Maybe I'm just a throwback, but the three basic sounds I'm looking for are:

 

Hammond B3

Electric pianos (FenderRhodes, bonus for a nice Wurlie)

Acoustic Pianos (something bright, i.e. the old Yamaha CP70B)

 

I'm with Konaboy, could do 90% of everything I'd ever want with just a good B3 emulation with real drawbars and an optional leslie (looking hard at the XK1) and a digital/stage piano that has a nice realistic variety of FenderRhodes and bright acoustic pianos (no strings, 80's synth sounds, etc. required). In fact, the more portable the better. I never used the extra 15 keys on my old suitcase 88 ;) so I doubt I'll need them now. :D

 

John-

 

It gets suggested here a lot by a zealous and loyal following, but it sounds like you could get by very well with the Nord Electro 73.

 

http://www.clavia.se/products/nordelectro/index.htm

 

I have not heard the improved acoustic pianos on the NE3.0 - they are definitely the weakest sounds on the 1.0 and 2.0. And the pushbutton LED "drawbars" might be a deal-breaker for someone who grew up playing a real Hammond.

 

The semi-weighted action is not ideal for either piano or organ purists, but I find it very playable. It only weighs 9.4 kg/ 21 lbs. As long as you don't need to split or layer sounds, it should work for you. Did I mention it only weighs 9.4 kg/ 21 lbs? :D

 

Edit: Man, I just knew he'd have to get in the last word.

aka âmisterdregsâ

 

Nord Electro 5D 73

Yamaha P105

Kurzweil PC3LE7

Motion Sound KP200S

Schimmel 6-10LE

QSC CP-12

Westone AM Pro 30 IEMs

Rolls PM55P

 

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konaboy, in addition to the fine suggestions already made, I'll suggest looking at the Yamaha CP33, the lighter, no-speaker, "value" version of the CP300. If all you really want is piano, Rhodes and organ, check out the CP33.

 

Personally, I have an S90ES and I love it, as several others here have said. But it is probably way more than you need, both cost wise and complexity wise. The Roland RD700SX is more or less very similar to the S90ES in that respect.

 

Regards.

Samick baby grand; Yamaha S90-ES; Ensoniq E-prime; bongos; tambourine; djimbe

http://www.mindseyeviewband.com/MindsEyeView/MEV.htm

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The GEM stuff isn't available at all in Sweden so that is unfortunately not an option for me.

 

As the last poster points out the S90 and it's siblings is more of a synth than a digi-piano and that is overkill if you just want piano. I don't want several hundred mediocre sounds. All I want is two totally authentic sounds! I'm sure there are many other players yearning for the same thing.

 

The new Yamaha digital pianos really disappoint me. The acoustic pianos may be stunning but I find the Rhodes still to be very thin in the high end, synthetic and with artificial and obvious velocity switches. I'm shocked that they still haven't got it right. It sounds only marginally better than their efforts from 10 years ago.

 

I've been playing my Electro rack a lot recently. It is a joy to play from the P80. You can really get into the e-pianos from the weighted keyboard and have a lot more control over the dynamics. I also own an Electro 61 but that is not great to play Rhodes on because the velocity response is so jumpy.

 

Actually, even the "electric grand" sample comes alive and I find myself using that as my main "acoustic" piano sound instead of the P80's.

 

So, perhaps that would be an option for John, the new guy, to consider.

hang out with me at woody piano shack
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Originally posted by cnegrad:

Sheesh; it's getting to be so that ya need a lawyer to post a message at this place. :eek:

Beer is cheaper. :thu:

 

 

http://www.uclacademicals.org/images/news/santa-beer.jpg

 

Who's in? :P

"Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo
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