So what chord is this?

[Michelle ggurl]

Linwood, I thought you meant to fix your arteries and heart the docs "had you in stitches" ... I know L 7 to mean something quite a bit more morbid ...

[Jazzwee]

L7 - Is that Lumbar 7? Or some new voicing for the Bb7#11 chord?

[Legatoboy]

I thought L7 was a health condition that prevents proper digestion of pork products!

[ProfD]

A great many muscians, past, present and future felt the need to augment their abilities with a chemical or herbal supplement.

 

In all my years, I could never see where it made a difference in their playing one way or another.

 

Since I have always been a clean and sober venture capitalist, the band had to pay me.

 

Bartender, send me another Etta James on the rocks please.

[kanker.]

Originally posted by ProfD:

In all my years, I could never see where it made a difference in their playing one way or another.

Ever heard Bird's recordings when he couldn't make his connection? Ever heard Jimi when he was strung out? You can't get more iconic than those two, and you won't hear worse performances either.

[Legatoboy]

Lergatoboy,

 

Profd said:

 

A great many muscians, past, present and future felt the need to augment their abilities with a chemical or herbal supplement.

Sometimes it can just be alot of fun weather your playing the Rocky Horror Show or Horror-Witz. . . .

 

The trick, and this is the hard part, is to know when not to do them and stop, to know when the phase is over and give it up! There IS something to getting alittle buzz that you wouldn't get playing straight and to keep you in a creative zone. Writers are known for their drinking, Musicians their drugging! I think it's to keep the intensity there! It can be a VERY big trap without a doubt! Don't want to have to rely on that stuff!

[Legatoboy]

Legatoboy,

 

I have to go home now from work (thank the lord), so I'll throw this out there.

 

About Horowitz, I heard he liked teenage boys! Anybody hear that about him, just curious? What kinda drug is that to take before a gig, huh? Not that anything condons drug usage but ... HEY!

 

Artists, Musicians, Writers, Actors , Dancers we're all alittle off..... Not that layfolk are any less off mind you! I'll take the drugs in small dosages thank you!

[lerber3]

Someone asked for the URL to the study about alcohol & recall... here ... not actually the study, but probably enough info to find it. I was aware of this finding, it has been repeated in several studies. This citing was the first study that I when I Googled

 

I don't like to drink and play (maybe a beer or two over the course of an evening)... it just messes me up, but...

 

When I jam I often partake of some herb, and it usually inspires me to play deeper into and around the groove. In an unherbed state, I find that if the music is really not rocking on it's own, I can't get too into it. When I rehearse/play with 'the usual cast of idiots' it's usually in the altered state... no worries, and whatever happens in performance is usually a bit of a surprise.

 

On the other hand, when I rehearse for a challenging gig or performance where I need to be spot-on with arrangements and material, I never partake during rehearsal. I would not attempt one of these performances altered (but in that case, f**king up probably wouldn't upset me much).

 

For me, at least, the state in which I learn is the state in which I will best perform... I almost find that I am stylistically two slightly different musicians who correspond to altered/unaltered states. Both have strengths and weaknesses, but they are different.

 

The altered me is the one that is more likely to rip an incredible solo or find a new twist on a previously played-out groove... or just wander off the stage or noodle aimlessly. The straight me is way more predictable and dependable.

 

Oh yeah, straight me prefers Bb7#11 while altered me likes C|Bb7... go figure.

[ProfD]

Originally posted by kanker, apparently:

Originally posted by ProfD:

In all my years, I could never see where it made a difference in their playing one way or another.

Ever heard Bird's recordings when he couldn't make his connection? Ever heard Jimi when he was strung out? You can't get more iconic than those two, and you won't hear worse performances either.

You are right. I've definitely heard cats play worse as a result of their altered state.

 

What I should have written was that I do not believe it enhanced their skill set.

 

Y'think Etta looks any better sideways?

[soundscape]

Originally posted by dementedchord:

wow... ear candy??? mood altering???

Why are two of the most basic functions of music shocking?

 

Originally posted by dementedchord:

while the mood altering probably supports debussey's position in as much as your most likely not aware of the alteration much less the means during the transform

Eh?

 

Originally posted by dementedchord:

debussey would not have considered his own or anyonelses works ear candy...

Did he intend for his works to be aesthetically pleasing?

 

 

Originally posted by dementedchord:

re:theoretical physics... perhaps it would be AS relevent to ask what physics says about music??? yada yada yada... something about dancing about archetecture... NO???

You've lost me there...

 

Originally posted by dementedchord:

Originally posted by soundscape:

"The average American college fails... to achieve its ostensible ends.

 

"One failure... of the colleges lies in their apparent incompetence to select and train a sufficient body of intelligent teachers. Their choice is commonly limited to second-raters, for a man who really knows a subject is seldom content to spend his lifetime teaching it: he wants to function in a more active and satisfying way, as all other living organisms want to function. There are, of course, occasional exceptions to this rule, but they are very rare, and none of them are to be found in the average college. The pedagogues there incarcerated are all inferior men--men who really know very little about the things they pretend to teach, and are too stupid or too indolent to acquire more.

 

"Being taught by them is roughly like being dosed in illness by third-year medical students."--H.L. Mencken

wow... while there are many failings of the educational system... and can attest to most either by having been subject to them or by having been married to a teacher and seeing her collegues in "normal situations"... that anyone would suggest such drivel (especially in the presence of educators) is despicable... and at the very least incredibly ignorant...

Yikes... H.L. Mencken was an opinionated curmudgeon... what he had to say was absolutely not intended to be "politically correct"! But consider that that I quoted it in the context of saying "besides, if you are enough of a talent, then YOU should be teaching your 'educators' and not the other way around."

[K K]

What does all this have to do with chords anyway?

 

Back on topic now.

 

If you knew you had only one minute left in your life and could only play one last chord, which one would it be?

[cnegrad]

D minor; the saddest of all chords.

[K K]

And why do you (or the person who told you that) think D minor is sadder than G minor or even Bbm9#11b13/CmM7(no 3rd)?

[cnegrad]

I actually don't care one way or the other; I was just playing along, since you used a smiley faced emoticon. If I'm dying, then playing yet one more chord is not something I'll care about at all. There are far more important things I'd be concerned with than that.

[Jazzwee]

Originally posted by kanker, apparently:

Originally posted by Jazzwee:

Originally posted by kanker, apparently:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jazzwee:

The jazz tradition is built on mostly monophonic solos based on rhythm (dedicated to the beat of course LB

),

No sir. Jazz is built on monophonic solos played over generally improvised counterpoint. This is true from Dixie on.

1. What happened to swing (rhythm)?

2. Chords are improvised? (ok counterpoint to you K.) Why do we have leadsheets then?

1. What is swing rhythm?

 

2. If you saw | G-7 | C7 | Fmaj7 | % | on a lead sheet, what would you play?

---

We never did finish this Kanker. What do you mean "What is swing rhythm?" Do you then deny that jazz is music built from a rhythmic base?

[kanker.]

Originally posted by Jazzwee:

We never did finish this Kanker. What do you mean "What is swing rhythm?" Do you then deny that jazz is music built from a rhythmic base?

All music is built on rhythm. Swing rhythm, and the shuffle rhythm in general, is something that can only be generally described. Those rhythms are literally undefinable because they mean different things in different contexts, and at different tempos. What we tend to call the swing triplet is entirely a slave to tempo. The amount of variance in where 'swing' lies between 80bpm and 400bpm is extreme to say the least. So what is swing rhythm?

[Jazzwee]

Originally posted by kanker, apparently:

Originally posted by Jazzwee:

We never did finish this Kanker. What do you mean "What is swing rhythm?" Do you then deny that jazz is music built from a rhythmic base?

All music is built on rhythm. Swing rhythm, and the shuffle rhythm in general, is something that can only be generally described. Those rhythms are literally undefinable because they mean different things in different contexts, and at different tempos. What we tend to call the swing triplet is entirely a slave to tempo. The amount of variance in where 'swing' lies between 80bpm and 400bpm is extreme to say the least. So what is swing rhythm?

It is what sounds rhythmically jazzy. Whatever that means. We all know what it means to have swing feel. Obviously the intepretation is often characteristic of someone's jazz style.

 

Just curious Kanker. What is your swing style? Mine is still developing so I practice many variations but I'm settling into a more straight 8ths style, i.e. closer to Chick Corea than to Wynton Kelly.

[soundscape]

Originally posted by kanker, apparently:

So what is swing rhythm?

http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/images/museum/linndrum.jpg

[kanker.]

Originally posted by Jazzwee:

Just curious Kanker. What is your swing style? Mine is still developing so I practice many variations but I'm settling into a more straight 8ths style, i.e. closer to Chick Corea than to Wynton Kelly.

I play across a pretty broad range. It just really depends on the feel of a tune as it's happening, what I'm hearing, how I'm hearing it. I can range anywhere from a Peterson type feel to a Jarrett type, and anywhere in between. Sometimes I feel more lyrical, others more rhythmic. Sometimes I feel more like playing pretty, other times more ugly. Sometimes I play more hip-hop type rhythms, somtimes more free and loose rhythmically. I don't mean to sound out there, or bizarrely esoteric or anything like that. I'm just more concerned with the moment I'm playing in than style or philosophy.

[Jazzwee]

Originally posted by soundscape:

Originally posted by kanker, apparently:

So what is swing rhythm?

http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/images/museum/linndrum.jpg

At least in Jazz, Soundscape, that machine of yours doesn't cut it. And swing is not just in the drums but is in every instrument (even vocals).

[ProfD]

Swing is that thing,

Which makes toes tap,

And folks in the audience,

Wanna sway, swoon or sing,

If it is stiff or static,

Then you gotta work at it,

Because it don't mean a GD thing,

If it ain't got that swing.

[ProfD]

Originally posted by Jazzwee:

At least in Jazz, Soundscape, that machine of yours doesn't cut it.

Jazzwee, I think a number of drum programmers would disagree with you on that one.

 

Just ask one Prince Rogers Nelson who has been known to do some jazzy stuff on that particular box.

 

The LinnDrum is the pre-cursor to the beloved and revered Akai MPC series which is the unequivocal king of swing next to a real drummer of course.

[Jazzwee]

Let's hear it do some brush sounds then

 

How does it handle the swing? Is it a fixed triplet formula? It changes in real life, man.

 

Hey, I'm no performance guru. I'm just a jazz student. But I watch it. I watch live jazz pretty regularly, especially world class players, and it is so much fun to study the subtleties of drum playing.

 

Reminds me too of another concert. I watched the Hollywood Symphony Orchestra recently. They play soundtracks of movies. So they got to this 40's movie with a jazz theme. Doesn't swing!!! Doing a dotted eight + a sixteenth just ain't the ticket

[ProfD]

Nothing beats a real drummer who can play circles around any programmable box.

 

However, on most boxes there is the option of quantization. How that is used or not provides better control over the swing.

 

Sounds like the conductor was I wonder how they would handle some Herbie Hancock, Quincy Jones, Lalo Schifrin, Henry Mancini or Neil Conti.

[Jazzwee]

Well I'm sure the orchestra was playing the music EXACTLY as written. Just like the quantization option. If it didn't get me to tap my feet then it ain't swingin'.

 

Ahhhh, the perennial struggle of defining swing... That could be worse than defining an Etta James chord.

[soundscape]

Well it was supposed to be a joke--although I don't exactly get why swing can't be quantified--but the LinnDrums have a 'swing' control.

 

[From http://www.synthmuseum.com/linn/linlm101.html ]

 

"[Roger] Linn explains: 'In order to create a sixteenth-note swing or shuffle feel, you unevenly split the timing of an eighth-note, thereby delaying every second sixteenth-note by some time factor. The LM-1 percentages signify the interval between the first and second sixteenth-note and between the third and fourth sixteenth-note, and so on. If you want both notes to play perfectly even - no shuffle - you would select 50%, which means 50/50. If you make it one clock later, it would be 54/56, or 54%. Delaying it two clocks makes it 58/42, or 58% for the first half and 42% for the second half.'"

 

Jazzwee, I think a number of drum programmers would disagree with you on that one.

 

Just ask one Prince Rogers Nelson who has been known to do some jazzy stuff on that particular box.

 

The LinnDrum is the pre-cursor to the beloved and revered Akai MPC series which is the unequivocal king of swing next to a real drummer of course.

Exactly... to this day the LinnDrum and the MPC's are known for being great drum machines and are still used, today in hip-hop. Also... in dance music a solid beat IS required... that's why drum loops were used in the 70's before drum machines came along.

[soundscape]

Originally posted by Jazzwee:

Reminds me too of another concert. I watched the Hollywood Symphony Orchestra recently. They play soundtracks of movies. So they got to this 40's movie with a jazz theme. Doesn't swing!!! Doing a dotted eight + a sixteenth just ain't the ticket

=syncopated rather than swung?

[Jazzwee]

Soundscape, swing has to do also with accents. Not just straight quantization of 8th notes. In a typical jazz tune, the distribution of time between the eights is not fixed. It is not unusual for a jazzer to switch this around in a tune and for the drummer to react to it in some manner. If done by machine, it does have a mechanical feel because it doesn't flex and would be difficult for drum programmers to emulate (unless it is real drums just transferred to MIDI). Often, a change in swing feel is used as a tension and release tool. For example, to my ears, when the first eight note of a pair is lengthened, it has an old fashioned, light hearted feel. As you move closer to straight eights, it has a more serious intense swing feel to me.

 

Swing is syncopation but sometimes it is hard to describe because a lot of it is feel and it gets in your bones. It was hard to learn this BTW as most of the structure of jazz IMHO is based upon this rhythmic foundation. This differentiates true jazz from smooth jazz or fusion.

[Jazzwee]

Other things that come into play: Swing makes possible other effects like playing behind the beat, ahead of the beat (rhythmic displacement). Old fashioned swing can be found in the Charleston. Modern swing is almost all accents, and is very close to straight eight notes.

 

Someone tried to quantify the eight notes of Bill Evans, one of the jazz greats. They could not find any consistency. It varied all the time. If a drummer where playing to a Charleston kind of shuffle and the piano player shifted to straight eights, you'd probably notice the difference.

 

If I play rock stuff, I find my phrasing and accents changing and being helped by my having learned to swing.

[kanker.]

Originally posted by Jazzwee:

This differentiates true jazz from smooth jazz or fusion.

True jazz is Dixie.