Roland RD-88 EX

[AnotherScott]

14 hours ago, The Piano Man said:

Korg is ahead of Roland now for replication of acoustic piano sounds, in my opinion.

Electric pianos and clav too.

 

(ETA: though I guess Korg's EP/clav superiority has been the case for a lot longer than their piano superiority)

[ProfD]

3 hours ago, Ibarch said:

The RD-88 is crying out for a upgrade to its terrible user interface for editing scenes and effects.

 

It also desperately needs the ability to import / export scenes and to restore just a specific scene rather than have to import an entire backup.

The EX upgrade should have resolved those types of issues.

3 hours ago, Ibarch said:

The RD-2000 is overdue for replacement with a Zen-Core based model.

Thr RD-2000 is a digital piano. I don't believe Zen-Core sounds will be that much better than onboard sounds. 

3 hours ago, Ibarch said:

As to the future, the big manufacturers must at some point make efforts to bring their sounds closer to modern computer based libraries. Korg, Yamaha and Roland led the way in revolutionary and high quality sounds.

Software being run on computers with more memory can accommodate bigger sample libraries. 

3 hours ago, Ibarch said:

I'm not sure when the complacency set in and these companies decided to sit back and let themselves be overtaken by a new wave of software companies such as NI.

Software instruments were mainly relegated to studio use. Hardware instruments optimized for live performance. 

3 hours ago, Ibarch said:

Whilst innovation in new sounds and synthesis has peaked, there is plenty of room of innovation in how high quality sample libraries can be made available within keyboards.

More memory and higher quality sample libraries in hardware instruments comes with a cost.

 

The question becomes 1) how much better will the instrument sound and 2) how much more are customers willing to pay for it. 

3 hours ago, Ibarch said:

Arturia's Astrolab has shown how far there is to go in having top quality sound that can load instantly, doesn't require noisey fans to keep the boards cool and can maintain a high level of polyphony. 

Still predicated on whether musicians enjoy playing sounds from that manufacturer.

 

The big 3 manufacturers have their dedicated use base to whom they can bread crumb with sounds, features and functionality indefinitely.😎

[GovernorSilver]

3 hours ago, The Piano Man said:

Korg is ahead of Roland now for replication of acoustic piano sounds, in my opinion.

 

Which Korg digital pianos do you like?

 

I like the PHA-4 and PHA-50 actions on Roland digital pianos.  I have not found a Korg board with as good (to my taste) an action.  To me the action matters more than the accuracy of sampled tones.

 

That said I am open to trying Korg digital piano that I may have overlooked.

[EscapeRocks]

13 hours ago, ProfD said:

Bingo. That is the very real question.

 

Most folks already know the answers for their situation too.

 

At this point in technology, manufacturer upgrades in KB hardware won't make a difference in one's musicianship and/or ability to produce music.

 

The tools are already available. Just a matter of application to the craft.😎

 

Hey, look at me, I just bought a board that was discontinued in 2017, my new-to-me Jupiter 80.  It fulfills all I need in a performance synth.

The only "innovation" I'd like is something like the Apple Glasses, where I can just look at the patch I want to pull up while on stage 😁

[EscapeRocks]

I loved my RD88 as far as the keys and the sounds.  However, as 'forward-thinking' they were with native Mainstage integration, I REALLY disliked the MIDI implementation.

MIDI DIN Out only?  No In?  Amongst other limitations I cam across.  My PX-5S has better MIDI implementation than my old RD88.

 

I moved to my Fantom-08 awhile back as my main 88 gig board as I really need the 16 parts and routing capability.

 

I do still use my PX5S and Arturia Keylab 61 MK2 when using my Mainstage rig.

 

[Keepitsimple]

4 minutes ago, GovernorSilver said:

 

Which Korg digital pianos do you like?

 

I like the PHA-4 and PHA-50 actions on Roland digital pianos.  I have not found a Korg board with as good (to my taste) an action.  To me the action matters more than the accuracy of sampled tones.

 

That said I am open to trying Korg digital piano that I may have overlooked.

Have you played a Nautilus, Grandstage, Kronos, SV-2 etc? 

 

All those share the same RH3 action. In my opinion it's a great action. A bit on the heavy side which i like personally. SV-2 is a great digital piano. 

[D. Gauss]

I have a barely used Roland FP-30x which i think has same action as RD-88. I got it at a moving sale for almost nothing so i can't really complain (well maybe a real volume knob please!), but.... the action is a bit weird. i.e. the keys don't return back fast enough.  i'm no shredder, but for lack of a better descriptive example, the one note/two fingers thing that goes on in the intro to billy joel's "angry young man,"  the Roland can't handle that at even 1/3 the speed of the record. the note  doesn't retrigger.

[GovernorSilver]

1 hour ago, Keepitsimple said:

Have you played a Nautilus, Grandstage, Kronos, SV-2 etc? 

 

All those share the same RH3 action. In my opinion it's a great action. A bit on the heavy side which i like personally. SV-2 is a great digital piano. 

 

But none of those Korgs that you list are digital pianos for playing at home, which is what I'm looking for.

 

RD-88 at least has speakers so it could be used as a digital piano.  Plus it has an action that I know I like - PHA4.   

 

My faves so far are Roland's FP-90X (PHA-50 action) and Kawai's ES-920 (RHIII action)

[The Piano Man]

32 minutes ago, GovernorSilver said:

 

But none of those Korgs that you list are digital pianos for playing at home, which is what I'm looking for.

 

RD-88 at least has speakers so it could be used as a digital piano.  Plus it has an action that I know I like - PHA4.   

 

My faves so far are Roland's FP-90X (PHA-50 action) and Kawai's ES-920 (RHIII action)

SV2s has speakers.

[Keepitsimple]

2 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

 

But none of those Korgs that you list are digital pianos for playing at home, which is what I'm looking for.

 

RD-88 at least has speakers so it could be used as a digital piano.  Plus it has an action that I know I like - PHA4.   

 

My faves so far are Roland's FP-90X (PHA-50 action) and Kawai's ES-920 (RHIII action)

I'm asking if you tried them first, to know if you got your hands on an RH3 action before, hence i wasn't sure if you have.

 

As mentioned above, the SV-2 has speakers. See if you can try one in a store. I was so close to buying one on the spot after trying it.

 

 

 

[The Piano Man]

7 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

 

Which Korg digital pianos do you like?

 

I like the PHA-4 and PHA-50 actions on Roland digital pianos.  I have not found a Korg board with as good (to my taste) an action.  To me the action matters more than the accuracy of sampled tones.

 

That said I am open to trying Korg digital piano that I may have overlooked.

I have Grandstage 73, XE20 and Liano

 

I got a bit carried away recently replacing an old trio, namely Technics P50, Roland EP760 and Yamaha NP30. 

[Paul Woodward]

11 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

 

Which Korg digital pianos do you like?

Always a Yamaha piano guy, I hated Korg (and most Roland) pianos....until the Grandstage.

As for home use, they make the D1 which is a full 88 note RH3 keybed, although it doesnt have any speakers. Piano tones may not be to your liking but, as has been noted, its essentially a full size RH3 master keyboard, the type Korg don't even make/sell anymore.

[vonnor]

11 hours ago, EscapeRocks said:

 

...The only "innovation" I'd like is something like the Apple Glasses, where I can just look at the patch I want to pull up while on stage 😁

You still pushing buttons on your boards during a show, Dave?? You need to get you one of these:
 

 

 

Infinitely programmable MIDI event transmitter - I use one to send PC events to all my boards for each song.

[GovernorSilver]

5 hours ago, The Piano Man said:

I have Grandstage 73, XE20 and Liano

 

I got a bit carried away recently replacing an old trio, namely Technics P50, Roland EP760 and Yamaha NP30. 

 

Thank you.  I will look for Korg SV-2 next time I visit the local gear pusher I mean shop, and hopefully compare with Roland FP-90X and Kawai ES-920 again.

 

The shop had a Yamaha CK88 alongside the Roland and Kawai when I was doing a shootout primarily between those two.  I was surprised by the gap in quality between the CK88's action and the actions of those other 2.

[GovernorSilver]

8 hours ago, Keepitsimple said:

I'm asking if you tried them first, to know if you got your hands on an RH3 action before, hence i wasn't sure if you have.

 

As mentioned above, the SV-2 has speakers. See if you can try one in a store. I was so close to buying one on the spot after trying it.

 

 

 

 

You sound like you're about to talk yourself out of the RD-88EX in favor of the SV-2 😀

 

I liked the RD-08 when I tried it but the value that it offered for the monay, compared to the RD-88, did not look so good.  I'll try the RD-88EX for sure.

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, GovernorSilver said:

I will look for Korg SV-2 next time I visit the local gear pusher I mean shop, and hopefully compare with Roland FP-90X and Kawai ES-920 again.

SV-2S is the model with speakers, SV-2 is teh same unit without speakers.

 

1 hour ago, GovernorSilver said:

 

The shop had a Yamaha CK88 alongside the Roland and Kawai when I was doing a shootout primarily between those two.  I was surprised by the gap in quality between the CK88's action and the actions of those other 2.

 CK88 has Yamaha's bottom-of-the-line hammer action; those Roland and Kawai models have those companies' top-of-line actions in portable-with-speakers models. The portable Yamaha-with-speakers to compare to those Roland and Kawai models would be the P-525.

[Moonglow]

12 hours ago, D. Gauss said:

…the one note/two fingers thing that goes on in the intro to billy joel's "angry young man,"  the Roland can't handle that at even 1/3 the speed of the record. the note  doesn't retrigger.

Horrible news. ☹️

[Ibarch]

2 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

 

Thank you.  I will look for Korg SV-2 next time I visit the local gear pusher I mean shop, and hopefully compare with Roland FP-90X and Kawai ES-920 again.

 

The shop had a Yamaha CK88 alongside the Roland and Kawai when I was doing a shootout primarily between those two.  I was surprised by the gap in quality between the CK88's action and the actions of those other 2.

 

I don't think you will find the SV-2 action to be close to that of the ES-920 or the FP-90x. I don't think it compares well with the lesser Roland actions on the FP-60x, RD-88 either. Certainly not for those coming from an acoustic piano background. 

[Keepitsimple]

2 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

 

You sound like you're about to talk yourself out of the RD-88EX in favor of the SV-2 😀

Nah, while I do like the RH3 action and the SV2, there were several factors that played a role in choosing Roland: 

 

1- I'm sick of the Korg sound engines. I had a Kronos 61 for 7 years and the SGX-2 and EP-1 engines still live inside my ears even after I sold it in 2018. 
 

2- No mod/pitch wheel in the SV-2. Decided later on that i might as well buy something that could serve as a main controller in my studio. 
 

3- The magnificent PHA-4. This is THE action for me. I grew up learning classical on U1, U2 and U3 uprights and that strong initial inertia in the PHA-4 takes me right back "home". 
For the record, I tried many other actions, including the PHA-50 which I found to be a bit spongy on the key bounce return, which got in the way of the runs I like to play. Anything Kawai makes in terms of action I didn't like, with the exception of the RHIII action in the ES920 which I found to be my favorite, but still not better than the PHA-4 in my opinion. 
 

4- I don't trust Korg's midi translation accuracy to vsts when used as a controller for piano libraries etc. Roland keybeds on the other hand are famous for having very accurate midi velocity/values translation when used with piano libraries. 
 

So yes no regrets in my decision at all. In fact: Excitement!

[GovernorSilver]

58 minutes ago, Ibarch said:

 

I don't think you will find the SV-2 action to be close to that of the ES-920 or the FP-90x. I don't think it compares well with the lesser Roland actions on the FP-60x, RD-88 either. Certainly not for those coming from an acoustic piano background. 

 

@AnotherScott just pointed out the SV-2S is the one with the speakers so that's the one I'll try.

 

Hands on time on the SV-2S will confirm whether or not I will like the Korg RH3 action.  It might take only a min. or two like my trial of the Yamaha CK-88. 

 

If the P-525 is in the shop I'll give that a shot too.  

[Paul Woodward]

Given my long love of Yamaha pianos, and that I loved the piano sounds of the YC61 (disliked the keybed), I was already to sell my GS and get a CP88 last year. I really disliked it and kept the GS. Previous to this, all my stage pianos had been Yamaha. Everyone will feel different of course...

[locture]

My picks on action would be PHA50>RH3>PHA4. But everyone has their own opinion.

 

But I definitely prefer my Nautilus's grand piano sound over Roland (and Yamaha and Nord as well).

[J.F.N.]

I used to own an MKB-1000, the RD-1000 without sounds, amazing big machine which came with a really nice sturdy (tank sturdy!) stand with chromed steel legs. The hammer action was pretty nice, though it needed some TLC on some keys and it took a lot of space, so it had to go in the end. But it's kind of a pity they don't do them like that anymore!

[ProfD]

28 minutes ago, J.F.N. said:

I used to own an MKB-1000, the RD-1000 without sounds, amazing big machine which came with a really nice sturdy (tank sturdy!) stand with chromed steel legs. The hammer action was pretty nice, though it needed some TLC on some keys and it took a lot of space, so it had to go in the end. But it's kind of a pity they don't do them like that anymore!

You can thank your fellow musicians for grumbling and complaining about the size and weight of those sturdy, tank built KBs from yesteryear.🤣 

 

Now, we get these light-weight KBs and DPs with with less than spectacular action.😁😎

[Justin Havu]

Got my RD-88 EX this morning, and after playing with it for a couple of hours, I'm not sure I'm going to keep it.  Hopefully Sweetwater has a good return policy.

 

While I like the form factor and the portability, there are some things with the playability that bother me too much to keep it.

 

The big thing is with layered sounds; piano+pad, for example.  I notice that when I hit even a 6-note chord, some notes tend to lag quite noticeably.  This is something I'd expect from a cheap PSR or CT keyboard, but not from a $1,300 instrument.

 

Another big issue are the pianos.  In some of the lower range and somewhere between C5-C6, they tend to sound a bit on the synthetic side, rather than natural, which further cements my distaste for the SN pianos, even the new one.

 

Also, the response is quite unnatural, especially when going for single-handed arpeggios.  After messing with the velocity curves/offset, I can't get as fluid a response as I get with the M8X.

 

Nope, this one is not for me at all.

[RABid]

I have an RD2000 and a Fantom 7EX. That piano on the Fantom EX is nice, but I see no need to take a hit selling my RD-2000 just to buy the EX version. Hate the sound of that Rock piano they showcased in the YouTube vid. Somewhere between a bright Kimble and a tac piano. Not very realistic and that sound begins to grate really quick.

 

Edit: On the other hand, anyone who has been wanting an RD2000 can probably pick one up cheap as people think they have to trade theirs in for the latest EX.

[DeltaJockey]

48 minutes ago, Justin Havu said:

Another big issue are the pianos.  In some of the lower range and somewhere between C5-C6, they tend to sound a bit on the synthetic side, rather than natural, which further cements my distaste for the SN pianos, even the new one.

I've never been that fussed with Roland pianos for that reason. The RD88 makes a good lightweight weighted action controller for me, so I don't use the onboard sounds all that much. I was wondering about the SN Piano 3, and whether the upgrade was worth it for getting a "better" onboard piano, but I'm finding it hard to locate any meaningful auditions online, as the playing examples are all the same tired jazzy demo stuff which hides the true nature of the note characteristics. So probably not worth the EX software upgrade to me.

To me also, the thing which lets the SN pianos down, is not the realism of the tones, or expressiveness, but the general spatial ambience is dull, when compared to my best samples libraries, and indeed my real acoustic.

I have found as a controller, the PHA4 slowness, is quite well overcome with a lighter velocity setting, and I find this makes it quite sensitive for fast playing, as I don't have to get the key all the way to the bottom quite as much. I treat the RD88 for what it is, as I can't go carting the M8x around everywhere.

 

I agree, the playability of my M8x is far greater than the Roland action by far, and the pianos on the Montage have a nicer realism.

[Justin Havu]

I've tried every velocity curve and offset combination I could think of to really lighten the touch on the PHA-4, and I just couldn't come up with anything that responded to my playing.  I haven't had to do a thing with the M8x; it just responds beautifully to my playing at the default curve.  Too bad no one makes an action as light to the touch and as fluid as the GEX keybed.

[DeltaJockey]

41 minutes ago, Justin Havu said:

I've tried every velocity curve and offset combination I could think of to really lighten the touch on the PHA-4, and I just couldn't come up with anything that responded to my playing.  I haven't had to do a thing with the M8x; it just responds beautifully to my playing at the default curve.  Too bad no one makes an action as light to the touch and as fluid as the GEX keybed.

If I go for a while without playing the PHA4, I do find it sluggish, but after a bit of exercise on it, I don't notice it anymore, and it can be satisfyingly nimble.

What instruments you play and style of course have a bearing on its abilities though.

 

Interestingly, I've previously mentioned that the Numa X GT has a very similar action feel to the GEX. Quick, nimble, well balance weight and expressive. Must be a recent trend in some manufacturers of the latest actions.

[Leroy C]

On 7/26/2024 at 6:56 PM, RABid said:

 I see no need to take a hit selling my RD-2000 just to buy the EX version.

FYI, you don't need to.  It's the same physical board with an upgrade you can buy, download, and install.  After that, you just need to write "EX" on your board in magic marker.  I know because I've done it.  Well, not the magic marker part ...