Do you purchase flagship models?

[Motif88]

22 hours ago, RABid said:

I started out with a MiniMoog and Arp Omni II. Later on, Rhodes Chroma and Memory Moog. Bought a couple cheapies to fill in the gaps such as the Sequential Six Track, and was not happy at all. Most recently I purchased a Fantom 7 as my forever board and a MODX+6 for something lite to carry to church. Wow, what a difference in the keys. When ever they release the 61 key version of the Montage M with aftertouch I will be saving up to replace the MODX. Oh, and when I finally got a Hydrasynth I got the deluxe. 

I’ve been fortunate enough to own a few classics but I’ve always done the trade-in/trade-up or sell to buy routine. That includes my Montage M8x…between the trade in of my 6 year old(?) RD-2000 plus the sale of my Hydrasynth Deluxe 73 and very little loss and a great lifetime customer discount before Sam Ash went under, my Montage M8x net cost was ridiculously low. I always done this but seriously regret trading in/selling my Oberheim Modular 8 Voice, OB-8, OBxa synths.

[TJ Cornish]

Yes. I’m always chasing features - more polyphony/effects, better control surface, better sound quality. I tend to pick one and stick with it though, so I don’t have a closet full of 15 keyboards. With that mindset I don’t think I’m paying more than others that split flagship money across 5 mid tier or single purpose boards.

[UnderGroundGr]

I bought K2661 brand new with full options + ribbon, back in 2004...

[Outkaster]

Yes

[allan_evett]

19 hours ago, marino said:

Simple answer: during the 80s and 90s I was working enough to get flagship instruments. I could have invested my earning in different ways, but I was so eager to work with the best possible tools. Trident, Chroma, Matrix-12, JX-10, K2600, PPG, Q...

The present situation doesn't allow for that anymore - but I'd say that still, today I'm spending much more money in new instruments than I could afford, or need. The passion is still there - and in a way I'm spoiled by the previous situation, so I don't really like too many limitations! The big difference is that I bought most of my present instruments used. Hydrasynth, Pro 3, Integra 7, Poly Evolver Rack... the only instrument that I bought new in recent years is the Iridium Keyboard, and I sold the Hydra and the Q to finance it. And the most recent purchase has been a Take 5, mainly because I found an used one in perfect state at an excellent price.

 

The sad fact is that today, I use my synth much less for onstage work, and more for recording, or for teaching or demonstration purposes, like my Youtube synth videos - or simply for my own enjoyment. I suspect I'm not alone on this path... 🙂 

Carlo, all of this is highly similar to my experience/timeline with flagship keyboards, though I worked stage gigs more in the 90s and 00s+. Mostly I teach and do accompanying work now, with scattered, stage gigs.

 

Enter recent Montage M8x GAS. My 2016 Montage 8 was 'downsized' to a MODX8 in 2018. Have added a Fantom-7 and Stage 4 Compact since then, changed out the MODX for a CK88. The Stage 4 Compact is my recent grab-n-go keyboard, though preference is to have it above a weighted-action instrument. Mixed feelings about the  CK, though I'm keeping it  as a weighted controller for Logic Pro and as a live back-up. For stage I'd like an 88 with a larger, more user-friendly interface. 

 

The new Montage appears wonderful, but the reality is it's likely overkill right now. The weight/bulk, high cost, and fact that I have enough digital synth hardware are strong considerations. Have thought of selling the Fantom-7 and picking up a Fantom-08 - not really requiring the 'extras' in my Fantom-7. The product familiarity and strong user interface have clear appeal. But I'm also studying is the Casio PX-560. From 2009-2012 I got a ton of use from a PX-330. And the PX-560 is now much more advanced, with a much stronger soundset, appealing touchscreen and front panel. The demos I've seen have been quite enlightening; how did I miss this thing in 2016? Most dealers list it as 'out of stock' right now, but there are plenty of demo and used choices available. 

[Leroy C]

Yes, but not necessarily hot off the presses.  I like to see a lot of reviews before I drop serious $$ on top of the line gear.

[AUSSIEKEYS]

My very first Synth was a flagship Korg. The Trident. Whooping big monster

 

I'd been to a Korg Poly Six demo night and decided to look at korgs. Went to my favourite shop in Sydney and saw they had a 3 month old Trident within my budget although not cheap being only months old.

 

More than a new poly six though but It won over the Poly 6 because it was an ensemble keyboard/synth and could do split and layering before Midi was introduced. Although specs seemed i should be able to replicate a Poly 6  within the syth section i never thought i could. But I was a beginner too but in the day I read i wasnt the only one. Its just modern noodlers think its super deep?

 

And it had an interesting history in that the previous owner brought the keyboard back to the shop on his motorcycle. I still cant get my head around that if you know the bulkiness and heft of a Trident. Yet it was pristine. The guy who got it off me couldn't believe how nice a condition. Lost a lot of dolleridoos on that as I held it too long so another reason to avoid flagships.

 

Weirder still i use to carry it to gigs on the back seat of a little Morris Minor. That was a squeeze. Made a roadcase out of chipboard (early MDF type of material) but too heavy so i removed the lid and left the base in car placing Trident inside base after each gig.

 

In the end i always wondered if I'd been better with the Poly 6 and a second keyboard on top. Even though they couldn't be midied I could still get 2 sounds. 

 

Still find it weird when modern synth noodlers say its an awesome sounding machine. I never thought that. Thought the Poly 6 in retrospect sounded better. But then i never get the reverence of many earlier keyboards such as the Roland Juno 106. Had one from new and couldn't wait to get rid of it. Pissy little sound.

 

Had some used flagships in between but they were when they became cheap "has beens" such as JX10, XP80s, Technics SX-WSA1, Kurzweil 2500R,.

 

Bought New the Kawai K5000W I'd consider a flagship at its time. I forget what else i had but my interest waned on flagships decades ago. Too dear and you loose too much. 

 

Now a days i have no interest in flagships. Just cheap gigging boards. You cant loose much on cheap keyboards. And todays flagships seem to be decade old technology anyway.

 

Only thing I've been tempted on is something "like" the Akai MPC Key 61 as an all in one recording option and I havent delved into computer type synths.  But id have to sell off a lot of old gear to afford it or perhaps its next generation or similar competitors. I'd consider it Akai's flagship????

 

Other than that I dont have gas for flagship models. Most seem bloated and old technology. But there is a lot of modern synths that are interesting but not sure if theyd be flagships so i wont mention them. They are tempting but not flagships.

[CHarrell]

7 hours ago, allan_evett said:

And the PX-560 is now much more advanced, with a much stronger soundset, appealing touchscreen and front panel. The demos I've seen have been quite enlightening; how did I miss this thing in 2016? Most dealers list it as 'out of stock' right now, but there are plenty of demo and used choices available. 

 

Don't forget the PX5S! After start and stop attempts with it over the last year (May 2023), I've come to really enjoy it. Not all of the basic sounds and effects are winners or the highest quality compared to some of the competition, but the ease I've been having in sculpting sounds, such as adding a cutoff filter to a piano based on velocity to make those quieter dynamics darker, or throwing on some atmospheric effects, has in a lot of ways made up for some of these and sounds great for stage work. 

 

For studio, I'd like to use it as a nice feeling and decently well-endowed controller for software.

[Brad Saucier]

Don't forget the downloads section at Casio Music Forums where PX-5S stage settings and tones can be found, and also stuff for the PX-560.  

[Dave Keys]

I went flagship with the Korg Kronos 2, because I wanted a full spec board that can do whatever I might be required to. Because I have that board as my top board, the bottom board doesn't have to be flagship, as long as it has a decent weighted action with decent basic sounds. Currently the bottom board is a YC73, but it has also been a Nord Electro 5HP, and a Roland RD700nx.  

 

Now that I've hit 50, weight of boards is a major factor, which often means avoiding flagship instruments altogether. The Roland RD2000 is great, but bulky and heavy, so if I were in the market for boards, I'd be more likely to buy an RD88 than one of those. 

[jeffincltnc]

I'm definitely what you would call the flagship guy.  I gig enough to self-fund the toys I want through my playing income and have a day job that supports my family.  I don't play golf, or have an expensive motorcycle, boat or beach house, so this is my hobby.  I buy the keyboards I want and have the tricked out studio I want with zero guilt over the cost.  I've sold some things I don't use but have a Fantom 8 EX (not for gigging use - just for home), Nord Stage 4 HA73, Korg Nautilus 76, Nord Wave 2 and Viscount Legend Live which are all flagship build quality and have size/weight for gigging.  Next up will be updating the Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol Mk3 controller.

[My Keys And Me Are Vintage]

I know if the right Yamaha SY99 comes my way, I will gladly dump all the other ‘lesser’ Yamaha FM boards I picked up along the way! So yeah, flagships are the ones to look for! But for new gear? No way. Like with a new car, I get the model just below the top grade. Most of the benefits, save a lot of money. 

[mrk7421]

TI really try to avoid flagship stuff. I frequently post bang for the buck topics to help people who also want to avoid wasting resources. I have spent a lot of time getting the lowly Roland FP10 to perform optimally....many people knocked my posts about it when these showed up at Costco 3 years ago and tried to tell me that the FP30x was going to be much better because it had something called a BNC chip....which was nonsense. Also the FP10 was junk because it only has mini plug ouput.....as it turns out I am using amps with mostly RCA inputs so mini to RCA works perfectly for me .                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          I also post about older Rolands like the GX series from well over 10 years ago. And I am a big fan of so called cheap  Casios such as WK3000 series and WK220 and the like. Casio put out an amazingly good Rhodes back then for the dollar and the WK3000 drawbar organ is definitely a favorite.

[mrk7421]

I admit I like the Montage piano ...  but am I going to chase the latest and greatest or buy a new roof? I have never ever bought a new car ....are you kidding? I picked up a used 2001 Toyota Camry 3 years ago which was one of the best decisions I ever made.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         I often wonder how some of you generate resources. I am slightly envious but it doesn't last............ I picked up a used FP10 for $150 recently and there is nothing I don't like about it. I had my RD300GX for 14 years and wish it hadn't become dysfunctional.I certainly wouldn't have replaced it with anything Yamaha.....unless someone gave me a Montage .....not going to happen. But if you can afford flagship......you are very fortunate.    That's all ....

[eric]

I've noticed that there is a similarity between buying keyboards and buying automobiles. 

 

There are a lot of car buyers that want the latest and greatest, so they are constantly changing out their daily driver. I have friends that lease vehicles for 2-3 years and immediately get the next version or upgrade, etc. without any real regard for the money lost in such transactions.

 

I've always been of the mindset to buy a practical, nice vehicle that can serve me for 10-20 years or however long I can drive it. I don't get distracted by newer generations or fancier brands. I just get the car and drive it as long as I can. Similarly, with keyboards, I am in it for the longer haul. Most of the boards I've used over the past 40 years have been flagship or close enough to flagship, to the point that they can be used for a long time without any quality issues, and the successor boards aren't compelling enough to drive a change.

 

If I had a blank slate and was starting fresh with no keyboards in my arsenal, speaking strictly of modern keyboards, I'd be very interested in obtaining the most current model Montage, Fantom, Nord, etc., with an eye towards ease of use, great action, inspiring sounds, etc.

[Paul Woodward]

1 hour ago, mrk7421 said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           But if you can afford flagship......you are very fortunate.    That's all ....

For me, there is affording and justifying. Luckily my income and lifestyle means I could ‘afford’ a flagship every few months without hardship, but as I’m not gigging or earning any money from music, could I justify that?

I’m happy to buy a ‘flagship’ PC workstation as that makes me more productive in my job. Also, I’m a Yorkshireman and like a bargain….playing the Kronos 88 I spent several thousand ££ on did not feel like as much as a win as playing a £500 Grandstage or £700 YC61…or even a £100 JDXi. Essentially I like to pick up quality pro gear at hobby prices and, so far, it’s been a good run.

[Delaware Dave]

 

10 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

MRK7421 said:

But if you can afford flagship......you are very fortunate.    That's all ....

 

If you read the OP it said flagship (OR FORMER FLAGSHIP).

• GEM Equinox Pro 88 I bought below dealer cost
• Kurzweil PC3 bought 3 years after its release as B-Stock. Paid 50% of dealer selling price.
• Kurzweil Forte 7 bought a few months ago (10 years after release) at 1/3 the list price.
• Ensoniq VFX, store demo bought when SD1 was released (50% of selling value)
• Ensoniq SD1, bought from Ensoniq Tech (Denny Edwards) after TS10 came out at 40% of market price
• Ensoniq TS12 bought from a church who wanted a stage piano to replace it.  Bought it for peanuts including a custom hardcase to go with it.

I would never pay retail pricing for a flagship, not that I cant afford it, just cant justify the prices (its not how i roll). i always look for a deal and typically will end up with a flagship keyboard below the price of a mid level.  BTW, i purchased my B3 (close to mint condition) and a 122 (7 out of 10) for $500 in 2008.  16 years later still works perfectly.

 

 

[Stokely]

1 hour ago, Paul Woodward said:

For me, there is affording and justifying. Luckily my income and lifestyle means I could ‘afford’ a flagship every few months without hardship, but as I’m not gigging or earning any money from music, could I justify that?

I’m happy to buy a ‘flagship’ PC workstation as that makes me more productive in my job. Also, I’m a Yorkshireman and like a bargain….playing the Kronos 88 I spent several thousand ££ on did not feel like as much as a win as playing a £500 Grandstage or £700 YC61…or even a £100 JDXi. Essentially I like to pick up quality pro gear at hobby prices and, so far, it’s been a good run.

I'm all about the justifying vs affording!

I'm also pretty good at rationalization (rationalizing?).   I told the wife I was skipping big family vacations with grown-ass teenagers for a couple years after the last couple almost killed me....well, that's a lot of money I saved     She wouldn't see it that way of course, I'd be taking money from the family for own selfish ends!

I've also been driving a paid off car for years now, think of that money rolling in!  

I've got a million of these ready to go.  My wife has a million shotgun shells ready to blast all of them from the sky.

Fortunately our gigs have been paying well and so far so good on Gear Exchange, though not yet with my keyboard up there.   I really do need to thin the small herd.  Sucks that local buyers are such flakes (so far).

[Jose EB5AGV]

I am all in for bargain priced high end gear. It is part of the joy, looking and getting a bargain. I did with my two Montage 6, buying them at about 50% current price, both one owner, and one just with two gigs an 10 months on it (the beautiful white one)

 

My approach with cars is similar, but I don't aim to expensive ones. Just what I need, with a reasonable amount of mileage on them, and always little money spent. You just need to be patient, they come.

 

OTOH, I have done some silly instrument buying, as my brand new Genos, which has seen just some dozen hours on it since 2018. But, well, I was back then a complete beginner with no clue of my needs!

 

PS: another nice catch was the mint 200€ DX7 just about three years ago 😆

[Tom Williams]

I usually shop for price.  I think I've bought  three  six flagships brand new, but that's over a 5 decade career: Ensoniq EPS (the original, thirteen-minus); Casio CZ-1; Alesis Fusion; Casio PX-5S; and most recently the Kurzweil PC4-7.  Not sure if Roland Keytars count, since there was usually only one model being marketed at a time.

 

The only one of those I regretted was the buggy / unfinished Fusion.  I was a naive youngster of 45  at the time....

[Paul Woodward]

I also owned a Fusion and was surprised how quickly they reduced and then abandoned it. Also, who could really afford an Oasys at that time? It had more potential than was realised.

I got similar vibes from the Grandstage which was discontinued quite early in its life with no real replacement, and still doesn’t have one you can buy yet. The incremental updates to the Grandstage X shows just how much the original offered (and still does). Very strange decision by Korg there.