D- Music Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Hi there, new to this site, found it and decided to sign up. Quick backstory, I've been in many bands and have dealt with many musicians. I was really tired of the drama and decided to start my own band AND teach my girls to play. I now have my band w my girls and all is dandy. Now my oldest which is my drummer decided to move on from drums. I don't want to bring in someone new bracause I am just over bringing in new members, starting all over and them not being reliable. Soooo, I have been contemplating going digital just on the drums. I have played with arranger keyboards and workstations before. I know a little of everything and whole lot of nothing. I used to program an r8 drum machine and I loved it as it was easy to do( still actually have it!) But I dread programming all of our songs. Is there an easier way now days, with technology? I looked into midi files and then drum loops. Ezdrummer 3 and hit Trax? Is this the best route? We play alot of Latin ( salsa merengue,tex mex nortena ballads cumbia and typical classic rock and top 40). Equipment available is Roland x6, yamaha psr x900, roland spd30 and spd sx. Studio 1 artist. Is it better to do midi files or audio files because it will essentially be a drumming backing track I guess. Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 If you want to go the arranger route a Korg Pa1000 would be a better choice as its recording is superior and the Styles are less cheesey and in any case you can turn off the Style elements so you just have the drum or drum and bass. It also has an inbuilt MIDI to Style converter bot. In the Korg there is the Songbook feature where you can customise each of your repertoire songs and save them in the User bank for quick call up. Want a Setlist, it does that to, create whatever you want from your Songbook in the order you want them, there is even software to do all this on a PC. Quote Col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D- Music Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 Thanks for the reply. I am at this point trying to see the fastest and easiest way to do complete songs w fills . Just trying to see which way is better,faster and/ or more convenient, loops or midifiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 EZ-Drummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphollis Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Can I offer a counterpoint? It's not the same without a real drummer (or bass player, or singer, or guitarist etc.) I find playing with a real human much more musically interesting and satisfying vs. a programmed track. The spontaneity becomes part of the music and is more engaging to listen to. Yes, it's a hassle finding and integrating new people into a tight (family) band. It would also be a hassle to program a bunch of drum tracks and not be musically happy with the result. I'm OK rehearsing to recorded tracks, but for live performances I avoid robots. Quote Want to make your band better? Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D- Music Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 You know, I get it, and u do have a valid point. There is nothing like a real drummer. There is also the " on the fly " changes we do during our sets and songs ( merging) that a Machine can't do plus we are committed to a beginning to end song and hopefully no one makes a mistake. I am very happy with what we have accomplished musically. We do weddings anniversaries, private parties ect. I guess the way I'm trying to look at it is that we keep moving forward with no " personnel " changes and tighten their timing ven more with a machine. These loops nowadays also sound so real it's incredibly convincing. Thank u so much for ur input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 In my personal experience as someone who is primarily a bassist, the drummer is usually the most reliable person in the group, the easiest to get along with, and the best ensemble skills. And yet, I have been in bands where the guitarist/leader fires one drummer after the other. I have also been primarily a keyboardist or double-duty, in several bands, and the equation did not change. This has been true for me in every region I have lived in. In some cases, it's a matter of being embedded in the local music community or not, as you tend to meet better musicians at that point, but I got lucky here and also in NC. Interestingly, most of the drummers I've worked with since COVID did not start on drums. Programming is super time expensive if you do it with feeling, which I do, and even stuff I have manicured forever still sounds better once a real drummer is brought into the studio. I was in a band once, that used drum tracks live, and we ultimately hired a drummer even though we were synth-pop. When 80's bands that used drum machines tour these days, they almost all use live drummers, even if playing an electronic kit in some cases. Such a difference! Drums are the heartbeat, and the voice (or winds/strings/etc.) is the soul. I have heard bad bands with good drummers and it remained interesting enough to stick around, but I've also heard great singers with lousy drummers and it was time to leave the room. To me, the drummer is the most important person in the band. If this wasn't the case, you wouldn't have so many drum circles on campuses etc. 1 Quote Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1, Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawback Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 I have no experience with this, but it’s intriguing and seems to be the easiest for live setup. https://www.singularsound.com/products/beatbuddy 1 Quote ____________________________________ Rod Here for the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberGene Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 I use Logic’s Drummer, very easy to add to a track and sounds great. We’ve been playing with it in an amateur trio with keys, guitar and vocal. But it’s not exactly for live manipulation. Rather putting drums in advance. But other than that it’s a matter of only a few clicks and tweaks to get a decent drumming in various styles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 1 hour ago, drawback said: I have no experience with this, but it’s intriguing and seems to be the easiest for live setup. https://www.singularsound.com/products/beatbuddy IMO, overpriced and outdated in a world of arguably much better options. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D- Music Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 1 hour ago, Mark Schmieder said: In my personal experience as someone who is primarily a bassist, the drummer is usually the most reliable person in the group, the easiest to get along with, and the best ensemble skills. And yet, I have been in bands where the guitarist/leader fires one drummer after the other. I have also been primarily a keyboardist or double-duty, in several bands, and the equation did not change. This has been true for me in every region I have lived in. In some cases, it's a matter of being embedded in the local music community or not, as you tend to meet better musicians at that point, but I got lucky here and also in NC. Interestingly, most of the drummers I've worked with since COVID did not start on drums. Programming is super time expensive if you do it with feeling, which I do, and even stuff I have manicured forever still sounds better once a real drummer is brought into the studio. I was in a band once, that used drum tracks live, and we ultimately hired a drummer even though we were synth-pop. When 80's bands that used drum machines tour these days, they almost all use live drummers, even if playing an electronic kit in some cases. Such a difference! Drums are the heartbeat, and the voice (or winds/strings/etc.) is the soul. I have heard bad bands with good drummers and it remained interesting enough to stick around, but I've also heard great singers with lousy drummers and it was time to leave the room. To me, the drummer is the most important person in the band. If this wasn't the case, you wouldn't have so many drum circles on campuses etc. I truly understand, I just had 1 too many bad experiences and decided to basically make reliable musicians. The good thing is that my girls liked music. All my girls play and not too bad, I mean they hire us. They started when they were like 10 or 11 and then my 2 younger one hopped on board. They are now older, have jobs and the dreaded boyfriend came snooping around . Now she has a hard time rehearsing and well, even playing at all. So I would prefer a person but as of now we may just try this option for now. I guess ez drummer and getting expansion packs will probably do the trick, I just have not had ANY experience using loops and samples. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 best of both worlds: -Buy EZ Drummer -Buy/rent/borrow/steal an electronic midi drum kit (doesn't have to be latest/greatest) -Pay your daughter to come over (i assume you do pay them ) -Play all your songs along to a click track with daughter on MIDI drums -Record the MIDI that your daughter plays into the com-pu-tor. -edit as you see fit -Give your daughter a hug and send her back to her boyfriend -Play backing track at your gigs -bask in piles of money and fan adoration 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polychrest Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 2 hours ago, drawback said: I have no experience with this, but it’s intriguing and seems to be the easiest for live setup. https://www.singularsound.com/products/beatbuddy I use mine primarily as a practice metronome at home. Respectable sounds, to put it politely. It can get the juices flowing when cranked up loud. When I’ve taken it to practices or jams when real drummers aren’t available, its robotic character is exposed—minutes on end of perfectly quantized loops. I’ve been guilty of throwing in random fills to break the monotony when I’m not too busy. Its greatest virtue is that you can turn it down when it gets oppressive, unlike a real drummer. And it doesn’t ask you to help carry its gear. 1 hour ago, D. Gauss said: IMO, overpriced and outdated in a world of arguably much better options. I paid half as much for mine pre-Covid as what Canadian retailers are asking now. I guess I was richer then. 1 Quote “For 50 years, it was like being chained to a lunatic.” -- Kingsley Amis on the eventual loss of his libido Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovernorSilver Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 If you have an iPad/iPhone, Lumbeat has an Afro Latin drummer app as well as apps for other drumming styles https://lumbeat.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Mein Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 I've used Superior Drummer for years in the backing tracks I created. 1 Quote https://www.facebook.com/Meinfield-346702719450783/ Songs on SoundCloud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konaboy Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 ezdrummer is definitely a good shout for making backing tracks, but probably some messing around in DAW to get the fills in the right places. arranger keyboard is fine, but drums may get repetitive after a while, maybe not so many variations for the styles that you need and overkill if you are only using it for drums. i'd even consider band in a box, for many genres it is excellent, with recordings of real musicians so is the most authentic. can be a big challenging to get to grips with but results are very convincing. Quote hang out with me at woody piano shack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 How multitasking are you? https://www.footdrums.com/ Cheers, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D- Music Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 11 hours ago, D. Gauss said: best of both worlds: -Buy EZ Drummer -Buy/rent/borrow/steal an electronic midi drum kit (doesn't have to be latest/greatest) -Pay your daughter to come over (i assume you do pay them ) -Play all your songs along to a click track with daughter on MIDI drums -Record the MIDI that your daughter plays into the com-pu-tor. -edit as you see fit -Give your daughter a hug and send her back to her boyfriend -Play backing track at your gigs -bask in piles of money and fan adoration Yes of course I pay them, and actually more than me. I don't even get a cut, I've had my share, I let them have it all basically. I like this comment and is a serious contender as far as options. I also may look into band in a box, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D- Music Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 8 hours ago, konaboy said: ezdrummer is definitely a good shout for making backing tracks, but probably some messing around in DAW to get the fills in the right places. arranger keyboard is fine, but drums may get repetitive after a while, maybe not so many variations for the styles that you need and overkill if you are only using it for drums. i'd even consider band in a box, for many genres it is excellent, with recordings of real musicians so is the most authentic. can be a big challenging to get to grips with but results are very convincing. Thanks for suggestion, I am going to look into it and I will just have to power through to get the results. I mean that is why we do it right? For the love of the art. It's funny , at the end of each gig, the girls sit in living room after we unloaded and all equipment, when I walk in , they just smile because they know is payday, it's so funny and cute everytime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuruPrionz Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 16 hours ago, D- Music said: You know, I get it, and u do have a valid point. There is nothing like a real drummer. There is also the " on the fly " changes we do during our sets and songs ( merging) that a Machine can't do plus we are committed to a beginning to end song and hopefully no one makes a mistake. I am very happy with what we have accomplished musically. We do weddings anniversaries, private parties ect. I guess the way I'm trying to look at it is that we keep moving forward with no " personnel " changes and tighten their timing ven more with a machine. These loops nowadays also sound so real it's incredibly convincing. Thank u so much for ur input The biggest problem I hear with digital drum tracks is the static tempo. If you try to run a metronome on great tracks with a real drummer you will notice that there are subtle but impactful tempo changes throughout songs and some songs have extreme tempo changes. Many of these changes are not sudden, simple tempo variations but transitional changes. In my experience that is very difficult to program so that it sounds natural. I'm recording and working on getting the drum tracks right by playing a Korg Wavedrum or acoustic percussion for the drum parts. I'm used to tempo changes and percussion because I play guitar and the right hand needs to be used as percussion. In fact, the piano is considered in an orchestral sense as being a percussion instrument. Guitar is also percussive but is not classified as strictly percussion since only one hand is typically creating the percussive aspect. In any case, percussion or not, the number of musical arrangements that use tempo change as musical expression are legion. I am currently playing solo and I do tempo changes all the time. Just for one, Waltzing Matilda (my version) starts at a leisurely pace and slowly accelerates throughout the song. The last chorus is a bit faster than the first verse. In context, that is an effective use of tension and release as the last line of the last verse slows down to an even slower tempo than the intro. Quote It took a chunk of my life to get here and I am still not sure where "here" is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Gauss Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 I would still go with the EZ Drummer method I described earlier, but... if you want real, actual drums (hello daughter again), this approach could be viable as well, though editing will be more difficult and there's no midi(well limited anyways). it's still a cool box though. Just make sure you understand what it is, and more importantly, what it ISN'T. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EAD10--yamaha-ead10-drum-module-with-mic-and-trigger-pickup?mrkgadid=1000000&mrkgcl=28&mrkgen=gtext&mrkgbflag=0&mrkgcat=drums&percussion&acctid=21700000001645388&dskeywordid=43700075611910432&lid=43700075611910432&ds_s_kwgid=58700008317532068&device=c&network=g&matchtype=e&adpos=largenumber&locationid=9003562&creative=651414152780&targetid=kwd-392301836565&campaignid=1079966126&awsearchcpc=1&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAq4KuBhA6EiwArMAw1HX096xF01tYSWAOmh46957mHZSupzBr2tz-_AR_SoYzx9796W0MUBoCkWcQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 22 hours ago, D. Gauss said: -Play all your songs along to a click track with daughter on MIDI drums -Record the MIDI that your daughter plays into the com-pu-tor. -edit as you see fit -Give your daughter a hug and send her back to her boyfriend Spot on advice here. Best of both worlds.😁 However, as a huge proponent of live music, I would encourage finding another drummer sooner than later. Use the backing tracks in a pinch.😎 1 Quote PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjd Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Just a thought... You mentioned that a Yamaha PSR-SX900 arranger is available? My suggestion is to use it as a live drum machine. One thing folks miss is that you don't have to use every part (track) in a style. Turn off the tracks you don't want. It's super easy to get rhythm only -- press the ACMP button (turning it off) and all that's left is the rhythm. Then press the ABCD buttons to change pattern within the style or to trigger auto-fill. Some of the PSRs support a foot pedal for pattern (ABCD) changes during performance. I do this when I want to knock off a quick demo and play all of the non-rhythm parts myself. Since the PSR is around, why not give it a try and save money... Hope this helps -- pj 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D- Music Posted February 5 Author Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, pjd said: Just a thought... You mentioned that a Yamaha PSR-SX900 arranger is available? My suggestion is to use it as a live drum machine. One thing folks miss is that you don't have to use every part (track) in a style. Turn off the tracks you don't want. It's super easy to get rhythm only -- press the ACMP button (turning it off) and all that's left is the rhythm. Then press the ABCD buttons to change pattern within the style or to trigger auto-fill. Some of the PSRs support a foot pedal for pattern (ABCD) changes during performance. I do this when I want to knock off a quick demo and play all of the non-rhythm parts myself. Since the PSR is around, why not give it a try and save money... Hope this helps -- pj I was actually trying that! Seems like a great option! Looking into the pedals now. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovernorSilver Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Sorry, I missed the mention of the Yamaha PSR-SX900, otherwise my response would have been the same as pjd's. That said I do love the Soft Drummer app (iPhone/iPad) for practicing on instruments other than my Yamaha PSR-SX600. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wd8dky Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 BeatBuddy https://www.singularsound.com/products/beatbuddy?gclid=CjwKCAiAq4KuBhA6EiwArMAw1Ca694OJKJwMsFjSfzOUDpQY3Z-QhWYPiheYDeCOVnLQEAFHp4kpHxoCuMoQAvD_BwE Very easy to use and modify for your own needs. There are many full songs available on their forum site for free, as well as many "styles". 1 Quote http://www.weisersound.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPN21 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 On 2/4/2024 at 2:44 PM, stoken6 said: How multitasking are you? https://www.footdrums.com/ Cheers, Mike. Ha, interesting! I try to do multitasking at times, but this would make my brain bleed! The 12 pedal setup starts from $3,595. Here's a much cheaper one though it's digital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montunoman 2 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 I also vote that you put your arranger keyboard to use. I also do Cumbia, salsa, merengue, Bachata., reggaeton, norteña, and so on with a Yamaha sx900. I do a duo with my wife singing, and we add instruments according to the clients budget and space permitted. The first live instrument I like to add is percussion. I try to hire percussionists that have a nice set up with congas, timbales, and a snare drum/cymbal ( for norteña and Banda) they play on top of the auto accompaniment and it spices things up nicely, gives a much more lively sound, it looks a lot more convincing from an audience perspective. Maybe at some points your daughter can re-join you on percussion? Might be a little bit less pressure on her, as most of the heavy lifting is done by the auto accompaniment drums. I should mention Yamaha has some great expansion packs of Latin styles here’s an example of a duo, and later, adding some horns, percussionists and bassist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mondo Jim Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 I still like Jamstix. The midi feature to control dynamics with velocity is real nice. It also has different drummers playing styles. You could jam with Keith Moon, or Charlie Watts, ect,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D- Music Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 On 2/6/2024 at 5:32 AM, Montunoman 2 said: I also vote that you put your arranger keyboard to use. I also do Cumbia, salsa, merengue, Bachata., reggaeton, norteña, and so on with a Yamaha sx900. I do a duo with my wife singing, and we add instruments according to the clients budget and space permitted. The first live instrument I like to add is percussion. I try to hire percussionists that have a nice set up with congas, timbales, and a snare drum/cymbal ( for norteña and Banda) they play on top of the auto accompaniment and it spices things up nicely, gives a much more lively sound, it looks a lot more convincing from an audience perspective. Maybe at some points your daughter can re-join you on percussion? Might be a little bit less pressure on her, as most of the heavy lifting is done by the auto accompaniment drums. I should mention Yamaha has some great expansion packs of Latin styles here’s an example of a duo, and later, adding some horns, percussionists and bassist. Well thank u all for your input, just got a chance to log back in, storms keep us busy here. But thinking of starting out with the sx900 and will possibly go w ez drummer just to have variety. Too bad video is not available to see, was looking forward to getting an idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.