Rumors: Yamaha Montage successor

[Fleer]

7 minutes ago, CraigT said:

Played an M8x today.  Didn’t impress me in the areas I wanted versus my current Motif XS8 and Nord Stage 3.  I think the action on my Motif XS8 is better.  The M8x pianos, organs, and Rhodes are better than my Motif but don’t measure up to the Stage 3.  I didn’t really try many other sounds because they’re not as important to me but I know Yamaha and they’re gonna be killer.  So, I’ll stick with what I’ve got.

Please tell us more about the action. Lighter? Heavier? Aftertouchy?

[CraigT]

21 minutes ago, Fleer said:

Please tell us more about the action. Lighter? Heavier? Aftertouchy?

Seemed lighter than my Motif and I thought there was too much play in the keys.

[Fleer]

31 minutes ago, CraigT said:

Seemed lighter than my Motif and I thought there was too much play in the keys.

Thanks. One more question if I may. Is the M8X surface on the right totally flat? Thinking of putting an iPad or Apogee Duet3 up there. 

[CraigT]

5 minutes ago, Fleer said:

Thanks. One more question if I may. Is the M8X surface on the right totally flat? Thinking of putting an iPad or Apogee Duet3 up there. 

Sorry, not sure.

[zephonic]

2 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Oh, definitely.  My guess is it will use Steinberg’s licensing system. Now they recently dropped the dongle on most of their lineup.  But I think it requires being online at least every once in awhile.  Maybe current Cubase users can comment. 

 

While we should be happy they're getting rid of eLicenser (the last ones to ditch the USB dongle), Activation Manager isn't always great either.

 

I fired up Gig Performer on a show this weekend and Halion(Sonic) patches wouldn't activate because they were "not registered". I nearly panicked, but after connecting to my iPhone for the internet and opening Activation Manager all was resolved with minimum hassle. But it did require me to close and restart GP, which has to rebuild the entire "gig" each time.

All in all, it only took a few minutes and it wasn't a big deal, but I'd rather have it not happen at all.

 

This is the world we live in now, however, and OS updates habitually require "re-activation/whatever" for assorted applications. 

 

[Jose EB5AGV]

5 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Oh, definitely.  My guess is it will use Steinberg’s licensing system. Now they recently dropped the dongle on most of their lineup.  But I think it requires being online at least every once in awhile.  Maybe current Cubase users can comment. 

 

I use Cubase 12 Pro. Once you have activated it on a computer (PC or Mac), it does not need Internet connection to work. You are limited to three different computers but only use one simultaneously (of course, if you don't connect it to Internet, that can't be verified 🤔, but is not what the license grants)

[AnotherScott]

I mentioned earlier that they added the ability to play 16 parts from the keyboard (instead of 8)... but based on what I'm now reading elsewhere, that's apparently not true. 

[Bobadohshe]

6 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

I mentioned earlier that they added the ability to play 16 parts from the keyboard (instead of 8)... but based on what I'm now reading elsewhere, that's apparently not true. 

 

I was confused about that as well and it seems you are right.

[konaboy]

any info on the touch screen tech?`same old plastic resistive type, or something more modern?

[Fleer]

1 hour ago, konaboy said:

any info on the touch screen tech?`same old plastic resistive type, or something more modern?

Hope you get one soon to review. 

[DmitryKo]

Just to remind you that the Yamaha Montage can render its UI on an external DisplayLink USB touchscreen display, or a DisplayLink USB-to-DVI/HDMI adapter and a desktop PC monitor - including those with an integrated USB touchscreen. You can also connect the DisplayLink adapter to a DVI/HDMI video capture card and record the user interface feed - or just project it on your computer screen!

 

DisplayLink is not officially supported though, as this feature is intended for presenters/reviewers; only a few such USB displays, adapters and touchscreens were tested to work with the Montage, and UI resolution remains at WVGA.

 

 

Yamaha MODX: Connecting an external touch screen 

https://www.digitalplayground.be/?p=4678

 

Montage and Dell P2418HT Touch Screen - YamahaMusicians

https://yamahamusicians.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=93277#p93277

 

 

Touchscreen HACK MODX/Montage "Extended Screen, The Sequel" | Synths and Guitars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inrq7ITpVeA

 

 

Extend Your Screen HACK for Yamaha Montage & MODX | Synths and Guitars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrolljRjvYQ

 

 

MODX Extend Your Screen to ANY PC/Mac Yamaha Montage  | Synths and Guitars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKPd-EiW6lc

 

 

 

[DmitryKo]

The new Yamaha Music Production Guide 07/2023 is out with two detailed guidelines on the Montage M:

 

Montage M Essential Knowledge Guide
https://www.musicproductionguide.eu/EKG/MONTAGEM_EKG_EN.pdf

 

Montage M New Features Guide
https://www.musicproductionguide.eu/EKG/MONTAGEM_NFG_EN.pdf

 

 

FYI, the Montage M introductory article in the Music Production Guide 07/23 (26 pages) is an excerpt from the New Features Guide (75 pages), which too is an excerpt from the Essential Knowledge Guide (85 pages) -  so the latter is the most complete version.

[Deskew Tech]

 

13 hours ago, zephonic said:

I fired up Gig Performer on a show this weekend and Halion(Sonic) patches wouldn't activate because they were "not registered". I nearly panicked, but after connecting to my iPhone for the internet and opening Activation Manager all was resolved with minimum hassle. But it did require me to close and restart GP, which has to rebuild the entire "gig" each time.

All in all, it only took a few minutes and it wasn't a big deal, but I'd rather have it not happen at all.

 

This is the world we live in now, however, and OS updates habitually require "re-activation/whatever" for assorted applications. 

 

Uhmm, had you changed something in your OS right before your show and didn't test your plugins? We always encourage people to never change anything, including any OS updates, within a week or two of a show explicitly to avoid issues like this.  Quite independently of any registration issues, you never know what actually might get broken by OS updates. For example, many plugin manufacturers are strongly recommending that users should not update to macOS Sonoma just yet because of issues with plugins.

 

Curious though, was Halion previously registered and just had to be reregistered (if so, why) or had it never been registered?

 

 

[zephonic]

1 hour ago, Deskew Tech said:

 

Uhmm, had you changed something in your OS right before your show and didn't test your plugins? We always encourage people to never change anything, including any OS updates, within a week or two of a show explicitly to avoid issues like this.  Quite independently of any registration issues, you never know what actually might get broken by OS updates. For example, many plugin manufacturers are strongly recommending that users should not update to macOS Sonoma just yet because of issues with plugins.

 

Curious though, was Halion previously registered and just had to be reregistered (if so, why) or had it never been registered?

 

 

 

 

After the point update I continued my usual workflow at home for several days without issue. More significantly, this weekend we had back to back gigs, and the first night everything was fine. It was on the second gig Halion(Sonic) purported to be not activated/registered.

 

Like I said, once Activation Manager had phoned home it was fine, no big deal. But it was not the first time I experienced this with AM. Roland Cloud occasionally does the same thing, but stuff like Spectrasonics never does.

 

Thank God for iPhone hotspot, though. I mean, the venue had wifi, but what if they don’t or the network is down? What if there’s no cell signal?

 

[GovernorSilver]

I'm all the more curious to try playing the M8X keys.

 

Designing a keybed capable of polyphonic aftertouch, yet at the same time being able to satisfy grand piano connoisseurs and poly aftertouch aficionados at the same time seems like Mission Impossible.  

[Jose EB5AGV]

5 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

I'm all the more curious to try playing the M8X keys.

 

Designing a keybed capable of polyphonic aftertouch, yet at the same time being able to satisfy grand piano connoisseurs and poly aftertouch aficionados at the same time seems like Mission Impossible.  

 

Maybe this is the key (pun intended)?

 

The model MONTAGE M8x features a newly developed, 
special keyboard called “GEX”, which supports Polyphonic 
Aftertouch. Unlike other keyboards, the GEX keyboard does 
not use conventional key contacts, but electromagnetic 
induction. With this technology, each individual key position 
can be continuously scanned. In addition, the keyboard 
supports software updates, which enables the future 
development of further techniques and articulations beyond 
Polyphonic Aftertouch.

 

[Paul Woodward]

1 minute ago, Jose EB5AGV said:

 

Maybe this is the key (pun intended)?

 

The model MONTAGE M8x features a newly developed, 
special keyboard called “GEX”, which supports Polyphonic 
Aftertouch. Unlike other keyboards, the GEX keyboard does 
not use conventional key contacts, but electromagnetic 
induction. With this technology, each individual key position 
can be continuously scanned. In addition, the keyboard 
supports software updates, which enables the future 
development of further techniques and articulations beyond 
Polyphonic Aftertouch.

 

This is very interesting and, with this model, they now seem to be going down a better, bigger, more flexible keyboard route rather than the 88 version in each range typically being the ‘piano players’ choice.

[Malcs Myth]

20 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

I mentioned earlier that they added the ability to play 16 parts from the keyboard (instead of 8)... but based on what I'm now reading elsewhere, that's apparently not true. 

The AWM2 sound engine allows 128 Elements per part (up from 8 on the old Montage) and 16 parts per performance. (According to the manuals).

 

So thats impressive, but I’m not familiar with Montage, so I’m not 100% sure if each of those 128 elements can have their own key range, filter etc. On the face of it they can (e.g. page 320).

 

If so, then this is the first digital hardware synth that to my knowledge beats the Kurzweil VAST synthesizers, which have had 32 layers per program (‘elements per part’) since forever.

[Paul Woodward]

I need to stop watching videos as this thing impresses me greatly. I could get the money for it (affording is a different thing altogether) but I simply can’t justify it. I’m at a point in my life considering a final move overseas, and buying this would pretty much mean I would be staying here (no way I am shipping that), yet I don’t gig at the moment,  have a nicely loaded DAW and a piano keyboard/controller I love. GAS is a real serious issue for many of us. Wish I worked in a music shop, would soon scratch the itch of new gear.

What is the appeal of such highly priced gear we don’t need? I don’t feel that same need in a car, clothes, furniture, power tools, games consoles or just about anything else. It’s this desire to explore music making tech which I swear is more addictive than other bad habits. Perhaps more of a compulsion than an addiction, but I still don’t know what is driving it, for me anyway.

 

[DmitryKo]

Yes, you should definitely stop watching them, though make sure you didn't miss some of the videos linked below - and then you could skip watching them too, after all it's a "typical Yamaha" which is "thin, plastic, sterile and soulless" and "a synth for keyboard players"

Also make sure to stop reading the online Operation Manual, the Quick Guide, and  the Essential Knowledge Guide above.

 

 

Official YamahaSynth videos and SoundCloud AN-X demos (forum post)

 

Montage M: AN-X Engine and Polyphonic Aftertouch playthrough & Guide! #montagem |  Dom Sigalas 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g37krx2ZhOQ

 

 

Let's see Michael Patrick with some English blokes for a change:

 

Yamaha Montage M8x Demo | With Michael Patrick | GUITARGUITAR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsxlVK-GSUM

 

Mike Patrick is Blown Away by the NEW Yamaha Montage M8X! | Andertons Synths, Keys and Tech

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrISTHXtlfk

 

Yamaha Montage M8x - The New Flagship Synth, More Powerful Than Ever! | PMTVUK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-4M8DegHRQ

Yamaha Montage M8X First Look At The New Synthesizer Keyboard | Music Matter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcEuVOBCVHc

 

Yamaha Montage M Overview - Tony White & Mike Patrick | Bonners Music 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP427ZJLiUo

 

Mike Patrick - Yamaha Montage M Polysynth | Bonners Music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoGuxbPyYqM

 

Mike Patrick - Yamaha Montage M Orchestral Textures | Bonners Music 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmRAj5MEDN0

 

Yamaha Montage M - Quick Play Through Some Factory Presets |  Bonners Pianos & Keyboards

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WGAefKb7V0

 

FYI all 3 pre-recorded demos with Blake Angelos:

Deep Dive into the NEW Yamaha Montage M8X | American Musical Supply

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-JqeHCJHEA

 

Yamaha Montage M Synthesizer - What's NEW with Blake Angelos!! | Chuck Levin's Washington Music Center - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pnf5-4tBFzQ

 

Yamaha Montage M8x: 3 Sonic Engines & Endless Worlds of Sound | Sweetwater

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdX5Ec7i7XY

 

[HammondDave]

I sure hope that they upgraded the touch-screen.  For that amount of money you would expect a screen at least the quality of an iPad. 

[ProfD]

59 minutes ago, DmitryKo said:

it's a "typical Yamaha" which is "thin, plastic, sterile and soulless" and "a synth for keyboard players"

Yamaha is to instruments what Honda and Toyota are to cars.  Safe and reliable.😁😎

[CHarrell]

2 hours ago, DmitryKo said:

Yes, you should definitely stop watching them, though make sure you didn't miss some of the videos linked below - and then you could skip watching them too, after all it's a "typical Yamaha" which is "thin, plastic, sterile and soulless" and "a synth for keyboard players"

Also make sure to stop reading the online Operation Manual, the Quick Guide, and  the Essential Knowledge Guide above.

 

 

Official YamahaSynth videos and SoundCloud AN-X demos (forum post)

 

Montage M: AN-X Engine and Polyphonic Aftertouch playthrough & Guide! #montagem |  Dom Sigalas 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g37krx2ZhOQ

 

 

Let's see Michael Patrick with some English blokes for a change:

 

Yamaha Montage M8x Demo | With Michael Patrick | GUITARGUITAR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsxlVK-GSUM

 

Mike Patrick is Blown Away by the NEW Yamaha Montage M8X! | Andertons Synths, Keys and Tech

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrISTHXtlfk

 

Yamaha Montage M8x - The New Flagship Synth, More Powerful Than Ever! | PMTVUK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-4M8DegHRQ

Yamaha Montage M8X First Look At The New Synthesizer Keyboard | Music Matter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcEuVOBCVHc

 

Yamaha Montage M Overview - Tony White & Mike Patrick | Bonners Music 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP427ZJLiUo

 

Yamaha Montage M - Quick Play Through Some Factory Presets |  Bonners Pianos & Keyboards

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WGAefKb7V0

 

 

FYI all 3 pre-recorded demos with Blake Angelos:

Deep Dive into the NEW Yamaha Montage M8X | American Musical Supply

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-JqeHCJHEA

 

Yamaha Montage M Synthesizer - What's NEW with Blake Angelos!! | Chuck Levin's Washington Music Center - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pnf5-4tBFzQ

 

Yamaha Montage M8x: 3 Sonic Engines & Endless Worlds of Sound | Sweetwater

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdX5Ec7i7XY

 

 

Why are you doing this to him? 😭

 

 

 

 

Regarding the Steinberg activation stuff, thankfully I've never used it for a live performance post USB dongle, but there have been multiple times where plugins like Halion just wouldn't load because they "weren't registered", regardless of host. I'd have to go into AM and sort that out.

[Paul Woodward]

6 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

 

Why are you doing this to him? 😭

 

Clearly he is evil… 🤪

[Keyboardplayer]

On 10/9/2023 at 10:06 PM, UnderGroundGr said:

If the M6 and M7 model had polyphonic aftertouch, i would buy one...

+1. I think Yamaha made a big mistake by not giving the M6/M7 polyphonic aftertouch. This is what Yamaha says about the GEX keybed on the Montage M8x:

 

"The Yamaha model MONTAGE M8x features a newly developed, 
special keyboard called “GEX”, which supports Polyphonic 
Aftertouch. Unlike other keyboards, the GEX keyboard does 
not use conventional key contacts, but electromagnetic 
induction. With this technology, each individual key position 
can be continuously scanned. In addition, the keyboard 
supports software updates, which enables the future 
development of further techniques and articulations beyond 
Polyphonic Aftertouch."

 

Beyond Polyphonic Aftertouch? Such as MPE? (MIDI Polyphonic Expression). The ability to enhance the GEX key action through software updates is a game changer, in my opinion. You would think Yamaha would have been able  to provide the same GEX technology on the M6/M7 but without hammer-action i.e. with semi-weighted keys instead. If the Montage M6/M7 had polyphonic aftertouch with GEX keyboard technology in a semi-weighted form factor I would have purchased the Montage M7 most likely. Notice also that the new GEX keyboard action doesn't really affect the price of the Montage M8x. There's a $500 bump in price between the M6/M7/M8x but with the ground-breaking GEX key-bed you would think the price of the M8x would be even higher because of that new technology. In other words, it wouldn't have been cost prohibitive for Yamaha to put that same GEX-type technology on the M6/M7 supporting PAT. Because Yamaha didn't do that a lot of keyboard musicians may pass on the M6/M7 which weigh a LOT LESS than the M8x @ 62lbs., and are easier on the pocketbook. And simply wait until ESP arrives on the scene in early 2024 and then buy an inexpensive controller keyboard that supports PAT. For example, the new Native Instruments Kontrol S49/S61/S88 Mk3 controller keyboard(s) support MIDI 2.0, Polyphonic Aftertouch, and MPE. You can even get them bundled with Komplete 14 Standard and have even more sounds to work with since the Kontrol S MK3 keyboards don't include any internal sounds built-in. What was Yamaha thinking?  

[GovernorSilver]

10 hours ago, Jose EB5AGV said:

 

Maybe this is the key (pun intended)?

 

The model MONTAGE M8x features a newly developed, 
special keyboard called “GEX”, which supports Polyphonic 
Aftertouch. Unlike other keyboards, the GEX keyboard does 
not use conventional key contacts, but electromagnetic 
induction. With this technology, each individual key position 
can be continuously scanned. In addition, the keyboard 
supports software updates, which enables the future 
development of further techniques and articulations beyond 
Polyphonic Aftertouch.

 

 

Yes, that is what Yamaha says.

 

Simply reading the above statements though is not a substitute for laying your hands on the Montage M8X keys for yourself.

 

Some comments posted so far on this thread indicate not everyone is happy with the GEX keyboard.  This does not surprise me at all.   People whose idea of the best possible keyboard feel is the keybed of a real grand piano are rarely satisfied by any electronic facsimile of a piano keyboard.   Even among those who consider piano to be their primary instrument, there is quite a bit of variance of preferences.  Some are heavy handed Jerry Lee Lewis types and tend to look for keyboards that can take the pounding.  Others have that featherweight classical piano touch and would be greatly bothered by keyboards that do not respond to very ppp level dynamics.

 

Whereas those who just want a great feeling polyphonic aftertouch keybed might not have the same concerns as the grand piano enthusiasts, but would have their own concerns - is too much pressure required?  too sensitive to pressure?  not sensitive enough? etc.

 

Each prospective customer will get the best answer for themselves by laying their own hands on the keyboard.

[Paul Woodward]

1 hour ago, Keyboardplayer said:

+1. I think Yamaha made a big mistake by not giving the M6/M7 polyphonic aftertouch. This is what Yamaha says about the GEX keybed on the Montage M8x:

 

"The Yamaha model MONTAGE M8x features a newly developed, 
special keyboard called “GEX”, which supports Polyphonic 
Aftertouch. Unlike other keyboards, the GEX keyboard does 
not use conventional key contacts, but electromagnetic 
induction. With this technology, each individual key position 
can be continuously scanned. In addition, the keyboard 
supports software updates, which enables the future 
development of further techniques and articulations beyond 
Polyphonic Aftertouch."

 

Beyond Polyphonic Aftertouch? Such as MPE? (MIDI Polyphonic Expression). The ability to enhance the GEX key action through software updates is a game changer, in my opinion. You would think Yamaha would have been able  to provide the same GEX technology on the M6/M7 but without hammer-action i.e. with semi-weighted keys instead. If the Montage M6/M7 had polyphonic aftertouch with GEX keyboard technology in a semi-weighted form factor I would have purchased the Montage M7 most likely. Notice also that the new GEX keyboard action doesn't really affect the price of the Montage M8x. There's a $500 bump in price between the M6/M7/M8x but with the ground-breaking GEX key-bed you would think the price of the M8x would be even higher because of that new technology. In other words, it wouldn't have been cost prohibitive for Yamaha to put that same GEX-type technology on the M6/M7 supporting PAT. Because Yamaha didn't do that a lot of keyboard musicians may pass on the M6/M7 which weigh a LOT LESS than the M8x @ 62lbs., and are easier on the pocketbook. And simply wait until ESP arrives on the scene in early 2024 and then buy an inexpensive controller keyboard that supports PAT. For example, the new Native Instruments Kontrol S49/S61/S88 Mk3 controller keyboard(s) support MIDI 2.0, Polyphonic Aftertouch, and MPE. You can even get them bundled with Komplete 14 Standard and have even more sounds to work with since the Kontrol S MK3 keyboards don't include any internal sounds built-in. What was Yamaha thinking?  

Spot on, I can’t fit the 88 in my studio. Maybe a 73, but I would be grating my teeth that I missed out on Poly AT. As others have said, pair the new Korg Keystage with other hardware/software especially if you can get the Montage in software form and edit on a big screen.

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, Keyboardplayer said:

it wouldn't have been cost prohibitive for Yamaha to put that same GEX-type technology on the M6/M7 supporting PAT...What was Yamaha thinking?  

We really don't know what the cost would have been. The polyAT keyboard is an all new design for Yamaha. Maybe it requires an entirely different action and can't be retrofittable to the fsx design. (It seems they did not simply retrofit something to the BHE design) and maybe the non-hammer implementation simply wasn't ready yet. Maybe they want to gauge the response to the poly AT in the 88 before deciding whether to invest in manufacturing the additional design. Maybe they had a warehouse full of FSX actions that need to be sold first. Who knows what they were thinking. Regardless... we have what we have. Buy the 88 with poly AT, buy the 61/76 without, or don't buy anything, and wait to see about a possible future M6X/M7X.

 

I have had this thought that it would be kind of ironic if the the thing that complicated putting their new optical mechanism into any variation of their existing semi-weighted designs is that it wouldn't fit properly into the darn narrower-than-everyone-else's keys that they keep insisting on using. 😉 

[Fleer]

Fan blew my GAS away. 

[Jose EB5AGV]

1 hour ago, Fleer said:

Fan blew my GAS away. 

 

Is it that noisy?