Where's the Wurly recreation?

[MAJUSCULE]

Am I missing something or has no one brought a modern version of a Wurly to market? We've had a couple new iterations of the Rhodes, as well as new electric piano instruments like the VV or Valente, but to the best of my knowledge, I haven't seen anyone make a new (& perhaps improved) Wurlitzer.

 

Maybe the market wasn't there in the past, with original units still selling for dirt cheap. I did a quick Svengle and a VSF thread from 2013 asking the same question got a response of "Hey, I just bought a real one for $30, why do I need a new more expensive one?" But from what I've seen, prices have skyrocketed in the last 4-5 years.

 

Anyone here feel like taking my millionish-dollar idea and running with it? I'll be one of your first customers if you can put something together that's both reliable and sounds great under, say, $2,500.  

[CrossRhodes]

I'd be into this as well! Judging from the prices of the new Rhodes as well as Vintage Vibe's offerings though, the cost could be even more than buying a vintage one.

[MAJUSCULE]

My thinking is that the Wurly is generally considered a simpler instrument than a Rhodes, unless I'm mistaken. Maybe a deluxe version with FX etc like the top-flight options the Mk 8 and VV offer would be in the cards too, but I really just want a simple, killer instrument.

 

As a parallel to this, I was having a conversation with my bassist roommate recently and reflecting on the magic of the P/J basses and LP/Strat/Teles of the world. Simple, but timeless instruments that still define their entire world to this day. Just a couples pieces of wood, some strings and some magnets. That's what I want (for some situations, lol!)

[MAJUSCULE]

Before someone comes at me about the complexities of keyboards vs guitars and the economy of scale pumping out Squiers in Indonesia and China, I'm just spitballin' here... you can tell me I'm wrong and it'll never work, but be chill about it.

[Docbop]

I don't see the market for one to be big enough to make the R&D cost worth it.   The cost to make one today would make the street price higher than most would be willing to pay for a niche keyboard.   I think what helped people to get into making Rhode-like keyboards there was already a lot of people making replacement parts they could source parts from. 

[Dockeys]

I remember the Waldorf Zarenbourg. 
 

https://www.muziker.ie/waldorf-zarenbourg-black-limited-edition

 

I think it was an electric piano clone, not necessarily a wurly but the design was very like one. 
 

Couldn’t find a manufacturer website and I don’t think they’re made anymore?

[MAJUSCULE]

Zarenbourg was cool but that's still digital, I'm talking a real electro-mechanical instrument. A one-trick pony, but the trick is timeless.

[CEB]

WTF!  Are 200a models really selling for these prices I see on Reverb and ebay?

[MAJUSCULE]

20 minutes ago, Docbop said:

I don't see the market for one to be big enough to make the R&D cost worth it.   The cost to make one today would make the street price higher than most would be willing to pay for a niche keyboard.   I think what helped people to get into making Rhode-like keyboards there was already a lot of people making replacement parts they could source parts from. 

 

I mean that's kind of what I'm wondering Doc. It doesn't seem impossible considering the new Rhodes and VV both seemingly doing well. Don't know if the Valente has caught on but so much of the MI industry is focused on reissues and modern takes on classics anyway, whether it's studio gear or guitars or the synth clone explosion.

 

Sub $2,500 might be pie in the sky thinking, but I'm ready for someone to try it.

[MAJUSCULE]

Just now, CEB said:

WTF!  Are 200a models really selling for these prices I see on Reverb and ebay?

 

It's depressing Ed. Things I considered a matter of time 5-10 years ago are now probably out of reach. I gotta luck into a big royalty cut or something.

[CEB]

My first instincts was .. Why?, just pickup a 200A so I did a price search and ... Holy Bat S*** Batman!

[RichieP_MechE]

5 hours ago, MAJUSCULE said:

My thinking is that the Wurly is generally considered a simpler instrument than a Rhodes, unless I'm mistaken.

Sadly, you are mistaken. The Rhodes has a simple action which is essentially two pieces (key and hammer) while the Wurly is basically a miniaturized piano action (like 8+ pieces). So, compared to a Rhodes recreation, the Wurly 2.0 would likely end up being more expensive due to having more parts to make and more labor to put all those parts together.

$2500 price target is generous unless you are going to be able to sell 50,000 of these things. My extremely ballpark estimate from my experience doing some manufacturing cost estimates at my day job is 1000 units could be made for around $12,000/ea assuming made in USA labor rates.

And now I'm going to be thinking about this for the rest of the week and how I would design one with 21st century manufacturing techniques, so thanks for that 
 

[RABid]

At least there are several decent software and sampled alternatives. I cannot see paying that price for an instrument of occasional use. Has anyone since Supertramp used a Wurly on most every song of an album?

[CrossRhodes]

23 minutes ago, RABid said:

At least there are several decent software and sampled alternatives. I cannot see paying that price for an instrument of occasional use. Has anyone since Supertramp used a Wurly on most every song of an album?

There's definitely a cult of Wurli out there.
 

 

[D. Gauss]

35 minutes ago, RABid said:

 Has anyone since Supertramp used a Wurly on most every song of an album?

 Not every song obviously, but Benmont Tench sure used/uses his a bunch.  Can't remember who the famous big metal band's producer's name was, but i read this interview and he swore that he buried a whurly track underneath the guitars on almost every record he made just to make it fuller.

[zxcvbnm098]

They, like musical instruments in general, skyrocketed in price during Covid, and have not come down. 

 

Looking at the Reverb price guide it looks like prices have come down in the last few months, but you'll still be spending around $3700 to get one. I paid $2500 for one last summer I got off of Facebook Marketplace and I was pretty stoked. There are a lot of upgraded and/or refurbished ones that are in the $5K area, which is too rich for my blood. 

[zxcvbnm098]

By the way, the wonderful "Classic Keys" book discussed here on the forum has an amazing overview of the manufacturing history of the Wurly. I learned a ton of things I didn't know. HIGHLY recommended......

[Jim Alfredson]

The Wurlitzer action and electronics are far more complex than a Rhodes. If a new Rhodes is upwards of$12k, a new Wurlitzer would be probably $20k. It requires a LOT of skilled workmanship to not only assemble but voice and regulate.

[MAJUSCULE]

4 hours ago, RichieP_MechE said:

Sadly, you are mistaken. The Rhodes has a simple action which is essentially two pieces (key and hammer) while the Wurly is basically a miniaturized piano action (like 8+ pieces). So, compared to a Rhodes recreation, the Wurly 2.0 would likely end up being more expensive due to having more parts to make and more labor to put all those parts together.

$2500 price target is generous unless you are going to be able to sell 50,000 of these things. My extremely ballpark estimate from my experience doing some manufacturing cost estimates at my day job is 1000 units could be made for around $12,000/ea assuming made in USA labor rates.

And now I'm going to be thinking about this for the rest of the week and how I would design one with 21st century manufacturing techniques, so thanks for that 
 

 

Oh sure, here comes the engineering department, ruining the marketing department's fun again!  

 

Fair, Richie, thanks for your input. I must have mixed the two up. Is there a reason a simpler Rhodes-like action can't be used on a Wurly recreation? I texted my friend who's a self-taught piano tech to see what he thinks.

[Doerfler]

I have owned 3 Wurlitzers in my lifetime, would love to have one now. I did have one until 2022, a 200 model (not the "A")  I listed it on Reverb and then someone contacted me and made me an offer I couldn't refuse.

C'est la vie.

[D. Gauss]

I regret selling a tube 145 that i found in a junk store in 2003 for $30 bucks.  It was spray painted gold sparkle and clearly had been part of some kind of lounge act or something. Sounded amazing, but i didn't have the room at the time, needed money for daughter's tuition, somebody made me a good, but not great offer, so off it went.

Still have, but my have to part with soon due to space issues: a groovy 206 (basically a giant 200 attached to a stand/console with wheels and a bunch more speakers) and also a spinet 720, which is a wonderful beast.

 

[ewall08530]

8 hours ago, RABid said:

At least there are several decent software and sampled alternatives. I cannot see paying that price for an instrument of occasional use. Has anyone since Supertramp used a Wurly on most every song of an album?

Jeff Young.  Unfortunately passed away earlier this year.  

[mate stubb]

8 hours ago, MAJUSCULE said:

 

Is there a reason a simpler Rhodes-like action can't be used on a Wurly recreation? I texted my friend who's a self-taught piano tech to see what he thinks.

 

Horrors! You would be replacing the best thing about the Wurlie with the worst thing about the Rhodes. 

[Adan]

I had high hopes for the Valente but nothing I've heard on line makes me think it provides the same sort of dynamic response as a Wurly (to say nothing of tone). I don't own a wurly but have played a bunch, and to me it is that touch-responsiveness that's so inspiring and that makes it almost impossible to keep your fingers off of it.

 

If you're a manufacturer then you're trying to predict whether your product will be good enough, at a reasonable enough price point, to lure enough players away from their digital emulations that are maybe only 50% as good as the real thing, but cost almost nothing and never have a broken reed.  Who is going to lay out the funds to take that risk?

 

It's a shame because even though the Wurlitzer was back in the day considered sort of a "less serious" instrument than the Rhodes, one could make a credible argument that it has had more staying power through the decades.

[ProfD]

Brotha Eric, I'm not here to throw talcum powder on your marketing dream. 🤣

 

The Wurlitzer and Rhodes were manufactured as portable pianos for which there was a huge market.

 

I doubt that either manufacturer knew their electromechanical KBs would become iconic through recordings. 

 

 A new generation of musicians and old enthusiasts wax nostalgically over electromechanical instruments. 

 

Yet, I hardly ever see the musicians who played those instruments both in the studio and onstage touring with and/or playing them now.

 

IMO, Vintage Vibe probably delivers the closest thing to a mass-produced electromechanical KB.  While made to order, they aren't necessarily selling like hotcakes.

 

The market for an electromechanical KB is tiny.  The digital facsimiles are good enough to encompass those sounds in a small lightweight package. 

 

I believe Nord may have neutered any serious thoughts about bringing an electromechanical KB to market.

 

Otherwise, it would take a huge investment of capital and high price tag to bring a new version of the Wurlitzer electromechanical to fruition. 😎

[stoken6]

20 minutes ago, ProfD said:

I believe Nord may have neutered any serious thoughts about bringing an electromechanical KB to market.

Not just Nord. Dave Weiser kept Kurzweil focused on this particular niche, while Korg's SV1 brought cool to digital reproductions of electromechanicals. Now we have Viscount, Crumar and the like doing great things with digital.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[tnelson]

This isn't a Wurli reproduction keyboard, but Wurlitzer aficionados might be interested to follow the development of the electro-acoustic reed module by the Korg Berlin group, introduced at Superbooth 2023.  Lots of interviews and demos on YT (search Korg Berlin).  Instead of exciting by keyboard hammer strikes, reeds are "struck" by electromagnet, and output picked up by charged plate, as in original Wurli.  It's intended as an electro-acoustical source for further synthesis. Reed vibration can be modified, sustained, etc., by electromagnetic field.  At its heart, though, it seems pretty much the Wurli concept for sound generation.

[ProfD]

 

3 minutes ago, tnelson said:

This isn't a Wurli reproduction keyboard, but Wurlitzer aficionados might be interested to follow the development of the electro-acoustic reed module by the Korg Berlin...

 

I've seen the video for this thing.  Looks like an electronic kalimba. 

 

 I don't think the Korg Berlin will appeal to KB players any more than a kalimba. 🤣😎

[tnelson]

5 minutes ago, ProfD said:

I've seen the video for this thing.  Looks like an electronic kalimba. 

 

 I don't think the Korg Berlin will appeal to KB players any more than a kalimba. 🤣😎

What they demonstrated is just a proof-of-concept module, not a product. 

[David Emm]

I owned a real Wurly for a few years and learned to love the sound. It finally deteriorated enough that I sold it to someone who could bring it back up to spec, so it definitely didn't go to waste. I miss it a bit, but I was rising up into Synth World, so the experience was more of a welcome module in my musical growth.

 

I have oddly mixed views on keyboards, because I've been through everything but the most serious high-enders and played many of those. I understand the subjective draw of a good feel you can embrace.

 

Today, I can call up Logic's EPs and get the voices I really want, with minimal tweaking. I sometimes experience a bit of faux guilt that I don't feel the need to take up one of the power plugs like Scarbee Classic EP88, but being only a click or two away from the higher or lower ends of the 'board takes some of the sting out of being a 'controller player' now. I can play what's in my HEAD pretty readily, but I still turn and sniff the aroma when someone plays a Vintage Vibe. Mmmmm! 😀