No Keyboards In Stores!

[Keyboardplayer]

Another thing no one has mentioned is that crime is a huge issue in major US cities across America currently. In certain parts of the USA crime is out of control with people going into stores packing heat even while the stores are open and basically five-fingering store inventory and ransacking the place while they're at it. Because product theft is so prevalent I guess keyboard and other manufacturers of high-end products have decided to sell mainly through online sales and distribution instead of brick and mortar stores. I have 2 local Guitar Centers where I live, and they have pared down their inventories quite substantially. I'm assuming the one and only Sweetwater warehouse/store in Indiana probably has armed guards on duty 24/7/365. And I think this will be the business model going forward unfortunately until crime is finally brought under control here in the States.  

[Docbop]

1 hour ago, Keyboardplayer said:

Another thing no one has mentioned is that crime is a huge issue in major US cities across America currently. In certain parts of the USA crime is out of control with people going into stores packing heat even while the stores are open and basically five-fingering store inventory and ransacking the place while they're at it. Because product theft is so prevalent I guess keyboard and other manufacturers of high-end products have decided to sell mainly through online sales and distribution instead of brick and mortar stores. I have 2 local Guitar Centers where I live, and they have pared down their inventories quite substantially. I'm assuming the one and only Sweetwater warehouse/store in Indiana probably has armed guards on duty 24/7/365. And I think this will be the business model going forward unfortunately until crime is finally brought under control here in the States.  

 

Economy start to fall apart crime goes up, economy gets better crime goes back down, that's a cycle going back centuries.    Then comment about Sweetwater and armed guards that been a norm for a long time.   In the 70's I worked in record store in LA and we were robbed a number of times mainly just for records.  Then I picked up a tour and was in Philadelphia and the drummer and I decided to cruise around town in the afternoon and we went to a big local record shop,  I was shocked to see armed guards in the store it was a first and that was the 70's.  Then over the decades since stores having visible guards has become the norm all over.   

 

Oh that records store I worked at I had been robbed a couple times for records, but other larger stores were getting hit for cash. One night I got robbed at gunpoint for cash my days working in record store ended not long after that.   Then I worked in the music store and never robbed but my car vandalized, that I could deal chalkup to part of life at least no guns were involved. 

[GovernorSilver]

Now that y'all mention it, when we went to Perfect Circuit, the entrance was shut and we had to be buzzed in.   I don't remember if the door was reinforced - I think it was.

[RABid]

Guitar Centers 80 north of me and 90 miles south. Neither has had anything of interest for 15 years. My favorite store was 180 miles away, north of Louisville and it closed a few years back. Now if I want to see a keyboard before buying I have to drive 340 miles to Sweetwater.

[jazzpiano88]

3 hours ago, Docbop said:

Economy start to fall apart crime goes up, economy gets better crime goes back down, that's a cycle going back centuries.    Then comment about Sweetwater and armed guards that been a norm for a long time.   In the 70's I worked in record store in LA and we were robbed a number of times mainly just for records.  Then I picked up a tour and was in Philadelphia and the drummer and I decided to cruise around town in the afternoon and we went to a big local record shop,  I was shocked to see armed guards in the store it was a first and that was the 70's.  Then over the decades since stores having visible guards has become the norm all over.   

 

Oh that records store I worked at I had been robbed a couple times for records, but other larger stores were getting hit for cash. One night I got robbed at gunpoint for cash my days working in record store ended not long after that.   Then I worked in the music store and never robbed but my car vandalized, that I could deal chalkup to part of life at least no guns were involved. 

 

Ray's Music Emporium in Chicago was owned by a blind person (Ray) and he was able to personally thwart crime strictly by ear.  He could feel Street Urchins approaching his inventory and could fire off an effective warning shot and sent them scurrying without any injury.   Message me and I'll provide more details.

[octa]

Went to music shop in small town SC where my parents live and was surprised to see fp-30x, p45, mx49 and others running thru Roland cubes. Not bad at all compared to guitar center in big college town where I live, where there’s a few Williams and maybe an Arturia controller (not hooked up). 

[obxa]

13 hours ago, cphollis said:

I have found that user forums, when available, are almost better than trying one in person, as you can peruse dozens and dozens of opinions.  This is where I find out about the all-important "gotcha!"s as well as aesthetic impressions.  If lots of people are connecting with a particular board, chances are  will too.  The Nord user forum is particularly good.

This. 

 

Also consider if you do this for a living  and need hands-on;  then buying, researching and ultimately returning gear if needed is a business expense, and possibly the new paradigm.    I consider a restock or shipping fee a fair way of trying stuff for both parties, and certainly less hassle than driving all over.   If you don't abuse it of course.   For long term remorse,  most synths and things are pretty easy to sell on Reverb or Ebay.   I just chalk it up that any potential loss would of been the same as renting.   Often i've actually flipped a profit without intending to; or at very least come out even.

 

You know how clothes never look the same as they do in the dressing room?   For me,  using gear in actual gig combat, or more than time spent in a hostile  music store environment,  is a better way to see if something is going to really work for you.  

 

Backline and/or shared keyboard rigs on multi-band gigs,  are also a great way to try out gear.   

 

 

 

 

[bfields]

21 hours ago, The Real MC said:

I've traveled a lot and it did not escape me that the better keyboard showrooms are near large metropolitan areas.

 

Not all of them though.  Very little around Orlando FL.  One Sam Ash store was reported to have an OB-X8 on the floor, the GC near Kississimi had P10 and a few others.  I'm not counting the bread-n-butter digital pianos, you can find them in every store.  FL seems to be a guitar-centric region, especially with the bands here.  Very few are looking for keyboard players, and the ones I have heard from want wallpaper sounds behind a guitar solo.

Yeah, it's not hard to imagine why big cities win here: if you're deciding where to put your music store, or how to stock the keyboard room, it's going to come down to how many potential keyboard buyers there are within a certain radius of your location.

 

Which suggests another explanation: some quick googling says Oceola county (home of the Kississimi GC) has a population density of about 300 people/sq mi; Montgomery County Maryland (home of Chuck Levin's) is over 2000/sq mi.  In general I think the Orlando area isn't terribly dense, as metro areas go?

[bfields]

16 hours ago, Keyboardplayer said:

Another thing no one has mentioned is that crime is a huge issue in major US cities across America currently.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191237/reported-property-crime-rate-in-the-us-since-1990/

 

 

[Reezekeys]

21 hours ago, mate stubb said:

Sweetwater is not a music store. It's more of a music instrument mall. Huge rooms for keys, guitfiddles, live sound, studio gear, drums, recording studios, auditoriums, cafeterias, barber shop, and of course the slide from the second floor.

 

You will be amazed.

 

This post, with pictures, is almost five years old, before they expanded!

 

 

 

[Al Quinn]

I'd like to check out Chuck Levin's some day. Didn't know about that store; it sounds like a great place! It's nowhere near where I live on Long Island but I could pop in there when driving to or from Florida (which I do at least once a year).

 

My last big purchase was a YC73. I bought it online from Guitar Center figuring if I didn't like it it could be returned to the local store -- which is only 35 minutes away and in an area that I pass by somewhat regularly -- to avoid return shipping costs. It was a comfortable way to shop. I think it's the new way for me.

 

My previous big purchase was a P-515. I bought it from Atlantic Music Center in Melbourne, Florida. They have a nice selection of acoustic and digital pianos that are setup and ready to play. I was able to play the P-515 before buying it. I should mention that they only take returns if the product is defective. So that was a different buying experience, but it worked out well. 

[Stokely]

1 hour ago, bfields said:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191237/reported-property-crime-rate-in-the-us-since-1990/

 

 

You can't bring facts in!  According to all my relatives, cities are war-torn Mad Max hellscapes.  Of course, they never actually go to one, nor do they know anyone living in one to ask, so their social media "news" tells them all they need to know!

As far as Orlando goes, yeah it's one gigantic sprawling suburb with a relatively small city core, once out of that core there's few buildings more than one story.    I reckon that's what happens when a city does most of its growing in the highway age.  Huge contrast to some cities up north and especially over in Europe.
 

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, Stokely said:

You can't bring facts in!  According to all my relatives, cities are war-torn Mad Max hellscapes.  Of course, they never actually go to one, nor do they know anyone living in one to ask, so their social media "news" tells them all they need to know!

As far as Orlando goes, yeah it's one gigantic sprawling suburb with a relatively small city core, once out of that core there's few buildings more than one story.    I reckon that's what happens when a city does most of its growing in the highway age.  Huge contrast to some cities up north and especially over in Europe.
 

It’s an unfortunate side effect of “news” and “facts” being custom made for audiences to propel narratives developed by politicians battling for power and money.  With broadcast, cable, wifi and cellular we are bombarded with it.   Which is why KC decided to restrict such banter.  

[Lou Gehrig Charles]

13 hours ago, JazzPiano88 said:

 

Ray's Music Emporium in Chicago was owned by a blind person (Ray) and he was able to personally thwart crime strictly by ear.  He could feel Street Urchins approaching his inventory and could fire off an effective warning shot and sent them scurrying without any injury.   Message me and I'll provide more details.

A great store, but it's 50:50 whether he hangs up your band's gig poster right-side up or not.

 

On a sad note, Ray's building was demolished last year after being damaged in fires in 2020.  The mural on the wall (seen in the movie) was still there (albeit faded) after all that many years.

[mate stubb]

13 hours ago, JazzPiano88 said:

 

Ray's Music Emporium in Chicago was owned by a blind person (Ray) and he was able to personally thwart crime strictly by ear.  He could feel Street Urchins approaching his inventory and could fire off an effective warning shot and sent them scurrying without any injury.   Message me and I'll provide more details.

 

Yeah, but the action on that Rhodes was worn out.

[ProfD]

19 hours ago, Tom Williams said:

Yeah, and two thirds of those are "Williams Digital." 

Brotha Tom, inquiring minds would like to know how that arrangement between you and GC is working out.🤣😎

[nursers]

18 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

Now that y'all mention it, when we went to Perfect Circuit, the entrance was shut and we had to be buzzed in.   I don't remember if the door was reinforced - I think it was.

 

I went into a music store in NYC last October (I think it was a Sam Ash) and there were counters on both sides of the entrance. On the right was the employee, on the left, behind the counter sitting, was an NYPD officer...

[Geoff Grace]

On 5/15/2023 at 9:46 AM, Docbop said:

Side effect of the pandemic and DIY music.   

The in-the-box trend goes back a lot farther than the pandemic. As a working composer, I migrated from high-end samplers to Kontakt-based sample libraries in 2004. I started mixing in-the-box when I bought Altiverb a year or two later. 
 

Today, my main keyboard simply functions as a controller. I haven’t connected its audio outs since 2014. I’m really satisfied with my rig. I wouldn’t want to gig in clubs with it; but it’s remarkably good as a recording setup, more than I need for professional work. 

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Stokely]

I'm with you, I had a lifetime's worth of fiddling with keyboard/module settings.  If I never hear the phrase "multitimbral mode" again I'll be just fine.  

Still want keyboards for live shows though.  I know many people bring out laptops, and I've used an ipad, but I want to turn things on, make simple audio connections, and see what they have on tap before the first set starts   Heck I'd ditch my in-ears if our drummer went electronic.

[Docbop]

1 hour ago, Geoff Grace said:

The in-the-box trend goes back a lot farther than the pandemic. As a working composer, I migrated from high-end samplers to Kontakt-based sample libraries in 2004. I started mixing in-the-box when I bought Altiverb a year or two later. 
 

Today, my main keyboard simply functions as a controller. I haven’t connected its audio outs since 2014. I’m really satisfied with my rig. I wouldn’t want to gig in clubs with it; but it’s remarkably good as a recording setup, more than I need for professional work. 

 

Best,

 

Geoff

I don't consider professional media composer as DIY.    To me DIY typically young  beat makers and Pop songwriter types making stuff for posting on social media.

[o0Ampy0o]

2 hours ago, Dr Nursers said:

 

I went into a music store in NYC last October (I think it was a Sam Ash) and there were counters on both sides of the entrance. On the right was the employee, on the left, behind the counter sitting, was an NYPD officer...

That's hardcore. I know there is choice side work cops like but retail security guard is low on their food chain. 

[Geoff Grace]

1 hour ago, Docbop said:

I don't consider professional media composer as DIY.    To me DIY typically young  beat makers and Pop songwriter types making stuff for posting on social media.

 

I understand.

 

It seemed to me that you were chalking up the ever growing market share for MIDI controllers and plugins to the pandemic and DIY music. I agree that those two forces have had an impact; but I just wanted to add that they don’t cover all of the last 20 years of growth, as the pandemic in particular has only existed the last few years, and there are other forces at play in addition to DIY music.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[JohnnyFoster]

On 5/14/2023 at 3:29 PM, ElmerJFudd said:

Yes, frustrating situation.  Buy to try, 45 days to return, eat the shipping cost if you don’t like it.  It sucks.  
 

I

One of the big reasons I no longer buy keyboards, or anything musical, anymore. It's just not worth it. I've got everythng I need, and when it's gone, it's gone.

[ElmerJFudd]

28 minutes ago, JohnnyFoster said:

One of the big reasons I no longer buy keyboards, or anything musical, anymore. It's just not worth it. I've got everythng I need, and when it's gone, it's gone.

Playin’ was always a better pastime either way.  🤝

[nursers]

3 hours ago, o0Ampy0o said:

That's hardcore. I know there is choice side work cops like but retail security guard is low on their food chain. 

Yeah it was weird and not the only store I saw an NYPD office in full uniform in the actual store.

[jazzpiano88]

11 hours ago, bfields said:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191237/reported-property-crime-rate-in-the-us-since-1990/

 

 

 

I think two things make this chart essentially meaningless.   Clearly something is decreasing, but what?

 

Did the "reporting" decrease, or did the actual crime decrease? There is no way to know.

 

And what is "property crime"?  No way to know unless you dig into the study and take a few hours to read and digest, it.

 

And to top it all off, most of these studies have an axe to grind or have a predetermined agenda for their target audience to trot out as "science".   It's why most soft sciences academically published studies have now been proven to be bogus because they are nearly all unreproducable.  

[Docbop]

13 minutes ago, JazzPiano88 said:

 

I think two things make this chart essentially meaningless.   Clearly something is decreasing, but what?

 

Did the "reporting" decrease, or did the actual crime decrease? There is no way to know.

 

And what is "property crime"?  No way to know unless you dig into the study and take a few hours to read and digest, it.

 

And to top it all off, most of these studies have an axe to grind or have a predetermined agenda for their target audience to trot out as "science".   It's why most soft sciences academically published studies have now been proven to be bogus because they are nearly all unreproducable.  

Like all reports, stat's, etc you find who paid for it directly or indirect gets the results they want to show.    That why the most important question to ask yourself is about anything is "does this sound right?".   If you ask yourself that then  do your own research and find an answer you can live with

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, Docbop said:

Like all reports, stat's, etc you find who paid for it directly or indirect gets the results they want to show.    That why the most important question to ask yourself is about anything is "does this sound right?".   If you ask yourself that then  do your own research and find an answer you can live with

It’s a sad state of affairs when nothing can be known or believed.  Humans have been fudging numbers and telling half the story to acquire money+power for a long time.  Watch what they are about to do with AI assisted voice matching and video generation. 

[o0Ampy0o]

2 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

It’s a sad state of affairs when nothing can be known or believed.  Humans have been fudging numbers and telling half the story to acquire money+power for a long time.  Watch what they are about to do with AI assisted voice matching and video generation. 

 

I read several articles yesterday about a new category of movie making. There was "straight to video" I think we all know what to expect of it. Simply, it is not good enough for theatrical release. The new category is "content intended for streaming" (my words, I don't think the universal equivalent term of straight to video has been determined).

 

This streaming content is not only lower quality but it plays to the conditions of viewing streamed content. There is a high demand for streaming content. Viewers burn through it faster than they would go to a theater and watch films. There is only so much theater released content to go around the streaming market.

 

People may be willing to devote time and attention to a film known to have been released in theaters and therefore designed for theater viewing but they are not willing to do the same for "streaming content." Viewing habits and patterns are monitored. They take this data into account. They may utilize AI. This metric determines how something is to be created and whether or not it successfully meets the objective.

 

The product is inferior but it may pass the test and be a hit by fitting the mold. Viewers don't enjoy it as much but because it is convenient they tolerate the flaws. They stack it with quality in certain areas but skip over areas in order to conform to this streaming format.

 

One of the goals of this streaming content is to get people to watch the whole series to the finale even if they binge it in a day or two. If too many lose interest and abandon it, no matter how good it is the network will drop it. Some things require time to catch on. Time of year or current events can be factors. Given enough time some things eventually catch on. There is no room for these projects to benefit from time. It explains why so much streaming content seems to promise better but ends up being unsatisfying.

 

[Nathanael_I]

I think you are missing something in your analysis.  Much of the best visual storytelling today is NOT being done for theaters.  They are dying a slow death since COVID and the rise of truly great streaming shows.  Who wants to sit in a shabby seat with sticky floors and 30 minutes of truly mind-numbing previews for movies I'll never want to watch?  The best writers and directors are not making Marvel movies.  They are working on Netflix, Amazon, and other streaming productions. 

 

People aren't talking about movies in the hallways at work.  They talk about shows.  All of these are done to very high production standards - theater quality.  Read the Netflix video and audio standards if you don't believe me.  They describe in detail the entire post-production chain that must be intact in order to pay for the show.  It's as pro as pro gets.  No different than a Hollywood structure.  These shows have budgets in the tens and hundreds of millions - just like a movie.  Game of Thrones is a streaming franchise worth billions of dollars.  Video games are 9 times larger by revenue than the entire movie industry, and the blockbusters have the same budgets as the largest motion pictures.  The theaters are almost not relevant to the cultural conversation in 2023. 

 

The actual innovation in storytelling is happening on streaming.  What director would want to tell a short 90 min story vs. having a whole season to develop a narrative arc?  The medium is just vastly superior for storytelling.  And the innovation is happening much faster than the theatrical system can sustain.  The day of a handful of taste masters deciding what everyone should watch and listen to is over.  It's been over in music for almost two decades, and it's now that way for film and storytelling.  The explosion of creativity we are witnessing is fantastic.

 

It is an amazing time to be a creative with access to world-class tools at affordable prices and almost free global distribution.