My Big Red Paperweight

[mate stubb]

33 minutes ago, Floyd Tatum said:

What's an IEC?

 

 

Standard connector type for power chords.

 

[ABECK]

34 minutes ago, Floyd Tatum said:

What's an IEC?

 

"IEC connector is the common name for the set of thirteen power line connectors. They are defined by the International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) specification IEC 60320, and these IEC connectors are widely used for the power connections on electrical and electronic equipment."

 

That must be the fuse in the middle.  Learn sumptin new every day.

[El Lobo]

Sat in on sax at a friend's gig yesterday. Guitar player's amp failed. His backup lunchbox amp failed too. He ended up going though the PA. I realize that won't be of any use if the fuse in your keyboard is blown. It's just another story about backup gear. BTW, I was playing my backup tenor because my other 2 tenors both need to go into the shop. When my backup tenor fails, I'm screwed. Gotta get at least one of the other horns into the repair tech -- always an expensive proposition.

[Reezekeys]

18 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

The tech guy does all the obvious trouble-shooting and then says, "IEC's have a fuse. Maybe the surge blew that."

 

Clueless guy here. What does that mean, "IEC's have a fuse"? What does the type of connector have to do with whether or not a piece of equipment has a fuse?

 

I just looked at some of my stuff with this connector, no external fuse that I can see. I know plenty of electronics with AC power supplies have internal fuses - but again, what does "tech guy" mean, is there something in the IEC spec that says there has to be a fuse somewhere?

[ProfD]

Brotha MOI, bummer that your Nord bricked before the gig but great save on the Milli Vanilli/Alanis tip. Also glad the issue was just a fuse.

 

These affordable light-weight KBs are great for redundancy and also make for a cooler looking 2-KB rig too.

 

No need to leave the light-weight spare KB in the vehicle. Put both KB cases on the roller cart and wrap a bungee cord around them and roll into the gig.

 

Plug in and turn on the KBs separately if there's any concern about power issues.😎

[Jose EB5AGV]

This story is amazing... And proves that keys are lots of times deeply buried on other sounds, so nobody notices them. Sometimes I feel like you, as if I am not doing anything but pantomime... even with a powered and fully working keyboard! 😅

[CowboyNQ]

4 hours ago, ABECK said:

"IEC connector is the common name for the set of thirteen power line connectors. They are defined by the International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) specification IEC 60320, and these IEC connectors are widely used for the power connections on electrical and electronic equipment."

 

That must be the fuse in the middle.  Learn sumptin new every day.

 

That most certainly IS the fuse in the middle. 

 

In Australia, IEC cables are known colloquially as "kettle cords" or "jug plugs".  Same in other countries?

[Lady Gaia]

The IEC is the International Electrotechnical Commission so it covers a wide range of applications and standards.  It's not safe to just ask for an "IEC cable" and expect anything in particular.

 

There are quite a few different IEC connectors, so the grounded "kettle cord" is just one of many different IEC 60320 specified designs.  The male/female pair of this variety are referred to as C14 and C13 IEC connectors, respectively.  Some of the most common IEC connectors are documented on this Wikipedia page, but there are others for a wider variety of purposes like electric vehicles.

 

 

[HSS]

I've had a fuse blow on an old amp at a gig like 25 years ago but never had a fuse blow on a board.  I guess I've been lucky.  Now that MOI has alerted me to this issue, I'll probably order some extra fuses for all of my boards just in case.  Thanks for the heads-up MOI!

 

FWIW... Here is a photo of the fuse on the back of my Nord 5d 73, which is to the left of the power button. 

 

[HSS]

7 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

MOI, glad you made it through the gig! Anyone do a poll here asking how many of us carry a spare keyboard around? I suspect that number would be very low.

I usually carry an extra board to band gigs and even rehearsals.  It's a Numa Compact 2x which is relatively cheap and light (~15 lbs.) and can adequately cover the sonic territory (AP, B3, EP) I need for the dive bar blues and soul gigs I mainly do.

 

I would that add I'm a retired 35-year petroleum geologist/ geophysicist/ engineer so by nature I'm into redundant redundancy.    I often even have a plan C for my plan B.  This personality quark been the source of a lot of strain in both of my marriages, 

[Floyd Tatum]

Ok, I recognize that type of cord, just didn't know, or forgot, that it's called IEC.   Still, I'm a bit confused:  is the fuse ever in the cable itself?   In ABECK's photo above, the fuse seems to be in the device.   Same with the picture of the back of HSS's Nord.   So, MathofInsects, the fuse was in your Nord, right?   I guess I misunderstood your post, and thought you were saying it was in the cable.   My bad.

 

[Tom Williams]

13 hours ago, re Pete said:

Reminds me of recent big band gig using my Kronos with a UPS.

Probably 100x more helpful than a cheap surge protector or "power conditioner" (which is what I use).  You're a smart feller!

[o0Ampy0o]

10 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

Sorry for the quick divert, but it seems as good a time as any to repost Frank Zappa's quote. This is a capture from the book and preserves the formatting, which imo adds a lot to the words!

 

MOI, glad you made it through the gig! Anyone do a poll here asking how many of us carry a spare keyboard around? I suspect that number would be very low.

 

 

All of that is true and in a way he sounds like he is criticizing but in another way it makes sense and there is nothing wrong with it. Music can be everything: vibes, rhythms, melodies, memories, familiarity, feelings, distractions, enhancements, stimulation, soothing, exciting, invigorating, saddening, depressing, irritating, infuriating, enlightening, etc.

 

Zappa's commentary also made me think of this:  Part of hits becoming hits has been the repetition of radio air play creating familiarity. Few hits have been hits the moment you heard them the first time. Most have needed to grow on you. Part of that growing on you process is you living your life as a song is played on the radio or the period when that song was played a lot on the radio. An exception has been how countless Beatles songs were instant hits. At the top of the list is Hey Jude. The moment Paul sang "Hey Jude" that song locked you in.

[MathOfInsects]

4 hours ago, Floyd Tatum said:

Ok, I recognize that type of cord, just didn't know, or forgot, that it's called IEC.   Still, I'm a bit confused:  is the fuse ever in the cable itself?   In ABECK's photo above, the fuse seems to be in the device.   Same with the picture of the back of HSS's Nord.   So, MathofInsects, the fuse was in your Nord, right?   I guess I misunderstood your post, and thought you were saying it was in the cable.   My bad.

 

@HSS's photo shows it--it's behind that grey plastic screw. 

But @Reezekeys's question and yours actually overlap. (And so does @Lady Gaia's, in a way.) Accurate or not, at least round these parts, "IEC cable" is meant to indicate that barn-shaped bigender cord. Anything I say about the fuse part of it would be based on four minutes of googling after the gig that night, and I guess it's possible that's not the same thing as actually knowing something.  But I did just find this, which I would have loved to have found before last weekend: https://www.djbox.ie/blogs/news/do-you-know-about-the-iec-socket-fuse

[CowboyNQ]

5 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

@HSS's photo shows it--it's behind that grey plastic screw. 

But @Reezekeys's question and yours actually overlap. (And so does @Lady Gaia's, in a way.) Accurate or not, at least round these parts, "IEC cable" is meant to indicate that barn-shaped bigender cord. Anything I say about the fuse part of it would be based on four minutes of googling after the gig that night, and I guess it's possible that's not the same thing as actually knowing something.  But I did just find this, which I would have loved to have found before last weekend: https://www.djbox.ie/blogs/news/do-you-know-about-the-iec-socket-fuse

Same here.  I have no knowledge of international standards for what an IEC cable SHOULD mean, but anywhere I’ve been in Australia - if I ask a tech for one I 100% know what they’ll hand me.

 

As an aside, I blew this fuse on my JBL EON 515XT speaker a few years back.  Upon opening the cavity to inspect the damage I was delighted to find a little spot containing a spare fuse.  Hooray for JBL!

 

 

[RichieP_MechE]

15 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

 

Clueless guy here. What does that mean, "IEC's have a fuse"? What does the type of connector have to do with whether or not a piece of equipment has a fuse?

 

I just looked at some of my stuff with this connector, no external fuse that I can see. I know plenty of electronics with AC power supplies have internal fuses - but again, what does "tech guy" mean, is there something in the IEC spec that says there has to be a fuse somewhere?

Nothing in IEC spec requires a fuse. The tech guy (sounds like a guy who sets up lights, screens, PA systems for events) from MOI's story is generalizing, but is "wrong" - not all IEC connectors have a built in fuse compartment. Any good equipment power supply design should have a fuse somewhere, but not all equipment manufacturers make them accessible from the exterior of the device. 

[Stokely]

As an aside, any recommendations on a UPS?  I don't know exactly how much wattage my rig uses (two keyboards, a pedalboard with Key largo and two different headphone amps), but I figure it's less than 100W (??)   So I wouldn't think I'd need a big UPS, and certainly don't need it to run for long on battery--if that were going on, the PA would be down.

Or recommendations not to use a UPS, if that is the way to go  Neither of my keyboards take long to boot.   It's more about them not having that interruption, and possibly to help with power issues.

I was looking at a few that are small and still have AVR, for whatever help that might be.  (voltage regulation).   This is about the smallest such I could find, seems to still be overkill.  It's a Tripp Lite 550VA, 300W unit.  Preferably I'd have one that doesn't weigh a ton, though I pretty much always use a rolling tool case for gear these days.   This isn't that much bigger or heavier than the simple Furman metal power strip I'm using.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BMBT4I?th=1


 

[TommyRude]

GREAT story MOI 😂

 

So... aside from the IEC topic, did you get any compliments from the audience, i.e. "that was some great playing", or "you've never sounded better", or "that solo was really awesome"?

[Stokely]

My favorite is:  "You were awesome!  I couldn't really hear you though, can you turn up?"    I guess I just *looked* awesome?  Or my very presence was awesome!

[MathOfInsects]

1 hour ago, TommyRude said:

GREAT story MOI 😂

 

So... aside from the IEC topic, did you get any compliments from the audience, i.e. "that was some great playing", or "you've never sounded better", or "that solo was really awesome"?

Yep. In real time we got some "The music is fantastic"s, and the woman who hired me (event planner) wrote to tell me the client was very happy with the music. I think we know who the weak link is now...

[MathOfInsects]

4 hours ago, RichieP_MechE said:

Nothing in IEC spec requires a fuse. The tech guy (sounds like a guy who sets up lights, screens, PA systems for events) from MOI's story is generalizing, but is "wrong" - not all IEC connectors have a built in fuse compartment. Any good equipment power supply design should have a fuse somewhere, but not all equipment manufacturers make them accessible from the exterior of the device. 

And to be clear, the way he phrased it was not that IEC's themselves have fuses, but that equipment that uses them do. That may be an overstatement, and I may have generalized from something he said because of my own lack of knowledge, but that was the spirit of it. 

[Mr -G-]

In some countries like the UK, the IECs also have a fuse (typically 3 or 13 amps, depending on the appliance rating and conductor sizes), but this is to mainly protect the ring circuit of the main installation (that is, prevent overloading, meltdown/fire in case of a short circuit). It is the fuse of the appliance itself, with a way lower value specified by the manufacturer, the one that will (hopefully) prevent circuitry damage.

 

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, Mr -G- said:

In some countries like the UK, the IECs also have a fuse (typically 3 or 13 amps, depending on the appliance rating and conductor sizes), but this is to mainly protect the ring circuit of the main installation (that is, prevent overloading, meltdown/fire in case of a short circuit). It is the fuse of the appliance itself, with a way lower value specified by the manufacturer, the one that will (hopefully) prevent circuitry damage.

 

You are right that the UK uses ring wiring and therefore fuses are included in every plug. But the UK plug is not an IEC standard - it's actually BS1363:

The IEC C13 "kettle" socket and C7 "figure-8" socket (and the corresponding C14 and C8 plugs) do not incorporate fuses in the connector - but of course there is nothing to stop manufacturers including a fuse holder in the mounting hardware alongside these connectors. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[NewImprov]

On 12/19/2022 at 5:01 AM, nadroj said:

I think MOI has unlocked a whole new business venture for himself. Solo piano set, where he just mimes and makes people think he’s playing.

What do you wanna bet he still gets asked to turn down...

[obxa]

Glad to hear it was the fuse and not something more expensive!    You probably own a melodica yes?  Tough for long night- but totally doable and fun  for cocktail hour.

 

For road gigs I still bring a battered keyboard  in the truck/trailer/bus as a spare, but got tired of doing that with my car for local stuff. 

 

I do however always leave one of those 37 note Korg Micro keys with a pre-historic Alesis Nanosynth.  Both stored in a Ukulele case.    I'm also obsessive about keeping extra power supplies, spare sustain pedal.  And.... a $15.00 melodica. (stress reliever in traffic....)

 

 

 

[zxcvbnm098]

I picked up a Casio CT-S1 just for a backup for potential situations like these. Battery powered! 

 

I played a gig in the 80's on a barge in San Diego with generator power for AC, and my old Prophet 600 and Mini Korg did not like that. They drifted way out of tune as to be unusable. I played tambourine that night. No one (sadly) noticed. 

[stillearning]

Don’t know if I posted this here before, but my big red scare happened last summer at an outdoor festival gig on a gorgeous evening at sunset. In the middle of a song, all the encoder ring LEDs on my Nord Stage 3 lit up in random patterns and started dancing around as I played. Luckily it was a 10 pc horn band so it was easy to let the bandleader know I was having problems and the band kept playing. I motioned to the sound guy to kill me in the mains. I shut down, repowered, tried everything, but still random dancing LEDs. Then I happened to reach around behind the Nord and the dancing lights stopped. Pulled my hand away, they started acting up again.
 

We were playing facing into the sun, and it was setting in such a way that it was shining directly into the cooling vents on the back of the keyboard, and as the horn players moved around in front of me, the LEDs did their dance! Freaked me out for a bit, as I thought the Nord was cooked. Be warned!

[Mr -G-]

14 hours ago, stoken6 said:

But the UK plug is not an IEC standard - it's actually BS1363:

Ah, yes, you are right, the plug follows the BS standard and has the fuse, thanks for clarifying it!

[jerrythek]

This story is legendary on Maui:

 

Band is playing a cocktail hour before a big party. Party planner comes up and asks the band to turn down a little. They do, and continue playing. Party planner returns and asks them again to turn down. They do. Third time she comes back yelling, "I can still hear you!" True story.

 

 

13 hours ago, NewImprov said:

What do you wanna bet he still gets asked to turn down...

 

[Delaware Dave]

In the summer we play outdoors at a yacht club; they also hosts events such as weddings in a giant 'bubble' that hold about 300 people.  Our outdoor stage faces the bubble; the event planner for the bubble will come out and tell us to turn down before we even start playing because they don't want our music to infiltrate the DJ's music who plays inside the bubble.  At that point you pretty much know it is going to be a long, frustrating gig .....