Yamaha CK61 and CK88

[pjd]

Forgot to mention the most interesting point from the manual.

 

Check the date on the MIDI implementation chart: 16-July-2021.

 

Yamaha had this design in the can for a loooooooooong time. COVID and supply chain issues.

 

-- pj

 

[time4jazz]

2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

YC is the best Rhodes board of the bunch. 

This CP73 owner finds this situation a little disappointing, especially since the CP is the one specifically focused on …you know… AP/EP. Fortunately, I find that the CP’s EPs are pretty great as is (but the amp sims would have been fun 🙂). 

[allan_evett]

3 hours ago, EscapeRocks said:

Here's why I like the new CK's:

First, I had a YC61. Great board. However, I did not get along at all with the control layout.

Looking at the CK panel, and the manual; I've already quickly seen how to navigate it.  I like the way the CK groups various things together compared to the YC. 

Again, I liked my YC, but I found I had to think too hard in a live situation when wanting to make real-time adjustments.

 

Just my$2.50 on the subject

 

Very similar to my experience with a YC88. That one's been my main bottom tier piece for several gigs, with either a Stage 3, 76 or Nautilus 61 above. Though more often lately I use the Stage 3 on the bottom and Nautilus on top. Considering the MODX 8 that's mostly home studio-based - with about 20 years of my favorite Voices, including many of own - the YC88 is seeming rather expedable right now.  Blake from Yamaha mentioned having heavier-duty keyboards he could use if needed, but that CKs were designed for a quick and straightforward work flow live (my words/interpretation of his comments). 

 

A CK88 is a very attractive solution right now, especially as it could easily replace the YC88 and an RD88 (purchased largely for the built-in speakers). And I'd still have a MODX8 with a  more extensive library and capabilities when needed. Downsizing to something that could cover for both of those is very appealing, and at a similar weight and footprint as the RD88. I've noted the CKs referred to as non-pro, semi-pro ...Sounds like these could cover plenty of pro stuff.  And if 'high-end' specialized keys are needed for a particular gig, I have a couple of options to cover that. Really though, most of the audiences I play for wouldn't hear the difference.  Guessing we'll still see CKs on some major stage gigs.

 

Meanwhile, I sense an instrument audition trip to Fort Wayne looming; and some likely additions to KC Garage Sale and/or reverb.com. 

[AnotherScott]

10 minutes ago, allan_evett said:

I've noted the CKs referred to as non-pro, semi-pro ...Sounds like these could cover plenty of pro stuff.  And if 'high-end' specialized keys are needed for a particular gig, I have a couple of options to cover that. Really though, most of the audiences I play for wouldn't hear the difference.

 

I don't think the "pro" distinction here would be about the sounds, but more about metal chassis, internal power supply, balanced outs. 

 

Even the Reface-calibre organ, while among the weakest of available clonewheel implementations, can be fine for stuff that isn't overtly organ-centric. Not long ago, it seems, lots of people were even wishing for a Reface YC implementation to be built into the Montage/MODX. It's all relative...

[ElmerJFudd]

11 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

I don't think the "pro" distinction here would be about the sounds, but more about metal chassis, internal power supply, balanced outs. 

 

Even the Reface-calibre organ, while among the weakest of available clonewheel implementations, can be fine for stuff that isn't overtly organ-centric. Not long ago, it seems, lots of people were even wishing for a Reface YC implementation to be built into the Montage/MODX. It's all relative...

Agreed.  It’s the plastic build, external power supply, action tier, no balanced outs and price point that Yamaha sees as pro features.  “Pro” is the playing and gig level.  There’s plenty of great players that will use a plastic keyboard  for various reasons. 

[Sam Mullins]

The CK61 is a good candidate for a "high-end" couch keyboard.  Only slightly bigger and 2 lbs heavier than a Casio CT-S500.  Apples and oranges since this has a lot more capability (real-time controls, FX options, more midi zones, audio interface, etc) but also is 3 times the price.  And I would be surprised if it didn't have the narrow keys that Yamaha unweighted synths have had since the DX7.🙄

 

But if you needed both a semi-pro stage keyboard and a couch keyboard...not sure there are any other options that fill both needs. 

[Docbop]

21 minutes ago, Sam Mullins said:

The CK61 is a good candidate for a "high-end" couch keyboard. 

 

Hadn't heard that term "couch keyboard" before but like the idea of the light and small CK61 for something I could play while kicking back watching TV or listening to music and noodling along.    That is the one thing about changing from playing guitar/bass and moving to keyboard I miss a lot.  Guitar was enough and without an amp just loud enough to hear while watch TV or other things.   Also realized how much as Howard Roberts would call it "wiggling your fingers in a musical way" was actually beneficial, also helped ears trying to play along with commercials or show themes.   Even my previous piano teacher said he watches TV now and then while playing.   

 

So having a Couch keyboard would be nice

[eric]

This "couch keyboard" idea is kind of fun - I have only a few use cases that overlap with it, such as taking a keyboard on a beach vacation. Over the years I have taken an entire multi keyboard rig to the beach and it's kind of a pain unless there's a lot of productivity in sound design during vacation. Lately, I have been more about enjoying down time at the beach with family...having a CK61 along for some deck jams could be fun.

 

Also, there are times that I simply don't feel like lugging my rehearsal rig around (I have basically a duplicate live and rehearsal rig). Something like a CK61 or even CK88 could be a compelling item to keep things more simple.

 

I watched the above video where they really dug into the UI - that color coding of the parts and how it corresponds with the FX section seems very intuitive. Even though this keyboard may not be "full pro" I do think it looks like it was very well thought-out. I look forward to checking it out more at NAMM!

[Docbop]

7 minutes ago, eric said:

This "couch keyboard" idea is kind of fun - I have only a few use cases that overlap with it, such as taking a keyboard on a beach vacation. Over the years I have taken an entire multi keyboard rig to the beach and it's kind of a pain unless there's a lot of productivity in sound design during vacation. Lately, I have been more about enjoying down time at the beach with family...having a CK61 along for some deck jams could be fun.

 

Also, there are times that I simply don't feel like lugging my rehearsal rig around (I have basically a duplicate live and rehearsal rig). Something like a CK61 or even CK88 could be a compelling item to keep things more simple.

 

I watched the above video where they really dug into the UI - that color coding of the parts and how it corresponds with the FX section seems very intuitive. Even though this keyboard may not be "full pro" I do think it looks like it was very well thought-out. I look forward to checking it out more at NAMM!

I'd say Yamaha Marketing and Engineering worked together better than most to create products for their target market.   That CK61 looks like something I could get a lot of use from especially taking a college piano class and having to play with backing tracks all the time. 

[ElmerJFudd]

 

[jazzpiano88]

The couch keyboard reminded me of the first time I was looking for an EP/AP slab back in the 80's.

The DX7 was out but I wanted a more piano experience as the DX7 keybed was virtually unplayable without hitting clunkers.

 

Salesman shows me the PF15 .... His pitch....  "Everyone fly's with this and plays it in their hotel room before the gig"

At the time is was ear candy and felt close enough to a real piano. I didn't have the money at the time. 

 

The Yamaha experience has continued for me over the years and not surprising anyone would think of one of their boards as a couch keyboard.

[summerinstereo]

The CK88 looks like an absolutely perfect fit for what I want to do. I'ma save up for one.

See you guys with a NKD post hopefully within the next month, but maybe 3~.

 

It's everything I want without any of the bs I don't want.

[EscapeRocks]

5 hours ago, allan_evett said:

A CK88 is a very attractive solution right now, especially as it could easily replace the YC88 and an RD88 (purchased largely for the built-in speakers). And I'd still have a MODX8 with a  more

 

Since you brought up the RD88; the thing I have come to absolutely detest about my RD88 is the MIDI i/o   USB? Fine. MIDI DIN? Not fine. the fact it's only MIDI DIN out drives me nuts.

I have stopped using the RD88 in gigs where I need various control capability.  Don't get me wrong, once I learned the deep dive of tone editing on the RD88, it's wonderful,  and I love the keys.

Just like my VR-09. Love the board, love the sounds.  Not being able to send program change to it is a non starter for multiple keyboard gigs.

 

As far as the "pro" comments:  I've been gigging with these non pro, plastic Yamaha's for years:  MOXF6, then MODX6, then MODX6+.  We're not talking about gigs just done at the local watering hole.  They hold up just fine. I've never broken one, never had a broken key (and I can get enthusiastic at gigs), never had a busted wall wart, etc..  My back thanks me

 

I've learned to tune out when the terms "pro player," or semi-pro player" get tossed around KC.

 

Lastly, just like was shown briefly in one of the videos, I could easily see having a CK88 under my MODX+6 for various shows.  It would be nice, especially at all the upcoming throw and go festival shows we have coming.  I've been using my RD88 on those, but the CK would be better, again, for me, and the way I setup my live rig.   On shows where it's just us, sure, I can bring out the heavy boards where I have all the time I want to setup, and I do.

 

Anyway, I've added another $4.35 to my original $2.50, so now that's my $6.85 take on this topic

 

[AnotherScott]

10 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

 

 

HammondDave was railing against the organ, and that was before this video was posted... which really has some of the weakest "clonewheel" demos I've heard (starts at 2:54). I"m hoping there are some better ways to tweak this, but if not, I'd be figuring out how to integrate at least VB3m pronto. I've been watching the videos and, perhaps not coincidentally, most seem to have little to no organ in them, which is not encouraging. These are Yamaha reps and dealers doing these demos, and they seem to conspicuously avoid the organ. That said, there are some where the organ is reasonably okay, at least for some purposes. But I haven't heard any organ demo as good as a VR-09 yet. But still, if your organ needs aren't too substantial, being able to play with the drawbars still gives it an edge over the straight rompler stuff. But I think I'd be looking to take advantage of that nice USB interface audio integration to bring the organ up to the standards of the rest of the board.

[D. Gauss]

looks like there's a big empty space on the right side to set/glue/duct tape an ipad for organ.  gonna make a guy in my band buy one of these.  hate lifting that cp88 for him and his bad back. 

[ElmerJFudd]

46 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

HammondDave was railing against the organ, and that was before this video was posted... which really has some of the weakest "clonewheel" demos I've heard (starts at 2:54). I"m hoping there are some better ways to tweak this, but if not, I'd be figuring out how to integrate at least VB3m pronto. I've been watching the videos and, perhaps not coincidentally, most seem to have little to no organ in them, which is not encouraging. These are Yamaha reps and dealers doing these demos, and they seem to conspicuously avoid the organ. That said, there are some where the organ is reasonably okay, at least for some purposes. But I haven't heard any organ demo as good as a VR-09 yet. But still, if your organ needs aren't too substantial, being able to play with the drawbars still gives it an edge over the straight rompler stuff. But I think I'd be looking to take advantage of that nice USB interface audio integration to bring the organ up to the standards of the rest of the board.

Gee, I don’t know why no better examples yet. My expectation is it sounds, for better or worse, about like this… 

 

 

 

 

[D. Gauss]

33 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Gee, I don’t know why no better examples yet. My expectation is it sounds, for better or worse, about like this… 

 

 

 

 

On my YC, the distortion totally blows.  just absolutely, "what were they thinking" horrible, like a digital input clipping at the lowest setting, up to "my balls are in a blender" painful, chainsaw sound if any higher.  With the distortion off, and played through a EH Lester though, it starts to sound like an organ with drawbars.  enough so that i'm willing to use it in a biker bar where i only play organ on one song and don't want my ipad/vb3 getting destroyed by clumsy drunks.  

[AnotherScott]

42 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Gee, I don’t know why no better examples yet. My expectation is it sounds, for better or worse, about like this… 

 

I'm hoping for better. As D.Gauss said, the Reface overdrive is atrocious, but the CK has additional overdrive options that did not exist in the Reface. It also has additional rotary sim options, and improved C/V. Also, some of the attributes that could be improved from Reface--like key click, percussion, and general sense of "air"--could conceivably be improved even if by only putting the same sound through a better Leslie sim, and again, since there are a choice of multiple rotary sims in the CK, maybe something there can improve the sound in those less "expected" ways. So I haven't lost hope that this could be notably better than the Reface demos... but I'm a bit discouraged by the fact that most of the CK demos so far seem to be avoiding the organ sounds.

 

Still, as your first example shows, once the organ is playing with the "full band," and you avoid its weaker aspects (e.g. overdrive), even the Reface could do a serviceable job. For comping, keeping in mind its limitations, it still has a leg up over the rompler organs you often find in the sub-$1000 category (e.g. Juno DS, Kross/Krome, Yamaha MX)... even just by virtue of the expressivity you can add by manipulating the drawbars as you play.

 

But it makes me again wish Yamaha would implement "dual mono" routing in their boards that don't have assignable outs, so you could choose to play mono and send organ out one side to a Lester K, Vent, whatever, while everything else comes out the other side. For those of us who gig in mono anyway, there's no downside to that. But again, at least with the USB audio interface, getting VB3m from your smartphone becomes another viable alternative... but even that could be so much better if Yamaha would have made the percussion and CV controls CCs instead of sysex, and if they permitted those controls to send their MIDI out via the defined external zones. Waiting for them to open a CK section on ideascale...

 

[summerinstereo]

15 hours ago, Sunlight2 said:

I remembered that and wondered the same thing...surely these can't be it?!

 

I'm surprised and baffled by these CK boards. Giggging musicians can pick up a far more powerful MODX+7 for not much more. And anyone who uses organ is going to shoot for a YC73. These just seem to fall between the two stools. 

 

I'd argue against this - what about people that need/want 88, weighted keys?

Blows the MODX7+ idea away immediately. The MODX8+ is quite a bit more expensive, and has more features than some people need/want.

 

I personally don't feel comfortable on anything that's not 88 weighted keys, and don't need any of the superfluous bloat that's prevalent throughout lots of instruments, the MODX+ included. 

 

This is aimed at gigging musicians that need something portable, great sounding, covers the basics and can be used without power - it's able to be powered by batteries for a reason. 

 

My 2c on it is that it hits a sweet "singer-songwriter" spot, but in a way that leaves the door open for being more versatile with your bread and butter sounds - still plenty to offer for people in bands etc. But nothing over the top or useless. I think its primary purpose is for use as a lightweight, pro-sounding and feeling "gigging" keyboard that covers the basics, and can be used as a great busking keyboard.

 

15 hours ago, Adan said:

The YC61 is twice the price of the CK61, that's the difference.  For most pro or semi-pro musicians, the YC61 makes a lot more sense.  I don't think the CK is marketed towards pro and semi-pro.  It's a bottom-up board.  E.G., a high school student playing in their first band and paying for it by working at Panetta.  

 

But let's say, not unusual for someone who hangs out on this forum, you have a Mojo 61 and a Yamaha CP88 -- two fairly bulky pieces of heavy weaponry, fine for taking to gigs but a real shlep for rehearsals.  Maybe you want something light and easy to bring to rehearsal., would you go for the YC61 even though you're not likely to gig with it?  Or do you save a $1K and get the CK for rehearsals?  So I think there's a narrow CK niche for the pro and semi-pro.

 

Define a pro or semi-pro musician.

 

I'm a "pro" musician, by my own (and typically accepted as the general) definition - someone that plays music for money. I make all of my money playing music, live.

 

The YC61 is way too expensive. As a pro musician, I can't justify that cost. Most pro musicians aren't rolling in cash.

The Mojo61 and CP88 are comically expensive. More viable for people that might have a dayjob, a little less viable for someone paying the bills as a "pro" musician.

I don't even know what a "semi-pro" musician is.

 

The CK isn't aimed at high school students - this is such an out of touch perspective, maybe high school students with rich parents, but be realistic.

 

It's aimed at people that need a gig-worth, portable keyboard that covers all the basics without the bloat and can be used with or without a power source due to being able to be used with batteries. It also takes a mic in via 3/4" jack so it's a great option for buskers.

 

It's a "do it all" keyboard, there will be a huge segment of people in the same spot I'm in - people playing music, for money, ie a "pro musician", that need something basic, easy to use, portable, able to be used in any location, and offers great bread and butter sounds with the flexibility to also work in bands or with other people. 

 

I don't get the difference between rehearsals and gigs here - I guess some people rehearse less than they play?
I play 2-4x a week most weeks, and am not in a band so it's just me. If I was in a band.. it would be.. 2-4x gigs per week, and 1x rehearsal. 

The lightweight aspect is a big deal for people that are actively gigging.

 

It's less of a deal for people that are mostly jamming at home and maybe gigging every here and there - but for people gigging often, ie, pro musicians, the CK - especially the 88 (imo) - is hitting exactly the right spot in the market.

 

 

I'm the type of person that doesn't want bloat. I don't want/need 2 million voices and a billion accompaniment styles. I want basic, good, but basic.

I also want portability as I gig so often. I would also like to be able to use the instrument in places without power, and run a mic through it as I'm primarily a vocalist (singer-songwriter type, much more focused on vocals than my guitar or keys work).

 

Perhaps I'm just biased because uh, I'm me.

But I don't see the CK as "niche" at all.

 

I see them as super versatile, basically tailor-made for people like me (which is why I'm suggesting I might be biased) - it ticks all the boxes for me, including the price point.

[MPN21]

I'd jump on a CK73 even better if the keys are from C to C.  

[Keyboardist85]

13 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

I don't think the "pro" distinction here would be about the sounds, but more about metal chassis, internal power supply, balanced outs. 

 

Even the Reface-calibre organ, while among the weakest of available clonewheel implementations, can be fine for stuff that isn't overtly organ-centric. Not long ago, it seems, lots of people were even wishing for a Reface YC implementation to be built into the Montage/MODX. It's all relative...

Seriously, Yamaha????  Y’all are skimping at that price.  I don’t know if anybody remembers, but back in ‘01, there was a pair of synths, the S08 & S03 - I used the S08 from ‘04 - ‘09 when it was stolen.  Just about EVERYTHING was similar looks-wise back then, minus the boat load of controls we’re getting with the CK series…. Yamaha even printed the hookups that’re around the back on top of the keyboard!!  I’ve missed that!!  They even brought back the spring loaded power button on the back - apparently necessary because there’s a power adapter with these CKs as well.  Only thing different build wise?  The chassis was ALUMINUM BUILT.  The kicker?  My S08 was EXACTLY the price of the CK61.  For that price, I don’t just want pro build quality, no…. I EXPECT IT.  Keep the plastic chassis to the $500 - $900 range of keyboard.  😡

[Adan]

It's normal to think about "who is this keyboard aimed at"?  We do that a lot around here, even though it's bound to be weighed down with generalizations and there's always exceptions and counter-examples.  I suppose we can talk about who the CK is aimed at without using the word "pro."  How about, would you use it playing for an audience, and if so, what kind of audience?

 

If I"m in a coffee shop backing up a singer and just need a little organ here and there, the organ on the CK is probably fine.  But if it's a blues band in a nightclub I'm leaning on organ all night, I'd say no way.  The VR09 could handle that, but based on what I've heard in these vids the CK could not.  So hopefully without impugning anyone's reputation I've described a player who the CK is not specifically aimed at.  

 

I would agree the availability of an excellent app like VB3 (or BX3, which in my experience is better sounding but less reliable) can change how we think about a keyboard like this.  If it's got 9 thingies that slide and transmit midi, then boom, it can be used to play great-sounding organ from your phone and you can think of the onboard organ as what you switch to if the app freezes up.  Combining Yamaha pianos with VB3 organ is always a winner in my book.

[cphollis]

I wasn't tracking the CK61 until it now, and I have to say it looks nice piece of work.  While anyone is free to opine on sound quality, the packaging and features are spot on.

 

Call it a "couch keyboard"?  More than that.  More like the controller you plug into your iPad when you want to have some extra musical fun.   Love the bidirectional audio and built in speakers.  OK, lying on my couch, working on tracks -- that works!

 

I could also see it as third tier, focusing on horns, strings, etc.  Yamaha was always good for certain sounds. 

[AnotherScott]

8 hours ago, summerinstereo said:

I don't even know what a "semi-pro" musician is.

 

In general, I'd say someone who makes enough money from music to declare it on a tax return, but not enough for it to be someone's only/primary source of a livable income.

 

8 hours ago, summerinstereo said:

I don't get the difference between rehearsals and gigs here - I guess some people rehearse less than they play?

 

Live performing pros and probably even most semi-pros rehearse less than they gig. And again, depending on the music and the purpose of the rehearsal, one may not need the full rig you perform with. Heck, I've gone into rehearsal studios with no gear at all, and just played whatever happened to already be there. Even apart from that, I've rarely brought more than one board to a rehearsal, though I've rarely gigged with less than two boards.

 

By the look of it, considering the sonic territory the CK covers, the controls provided, the ease of finding sounds (and assembling combinations) on the fly, the light travel weight, and even the built-in speakers, I could see it being the board I'd take to a rehearsal. (Built-in speakers should be fine for the "unplugged" rehearsals I've had... e.g. no drummer, just the rest of us working out arrangements and vocals.) Now, whether someone would pay $1000 just for a rehearsal board is a different question, but if that becomes one more use you'd have for this board in addition to others, the sum total of all the ways you could use it could make it justifiable, even if possibly no one purpose does.

 

[summerinstereo]

3 hours ago, Adan said:

It's normal to think about "who is this keyboard aimed at"?  We do that a lot around here, even though it's bound to be weighed down with generalizations and there's always exceptions and counter-examples.  I suppose we can talk about who the CK is aimed at without using the word "pro."  How about, would you use it playing for an audience, and if so, what kind of audience?

 

If I"m in a coffee shop backing up a singer and just need a little organ here and there, the organ on the CK is probably fine.  But if it's a blues band in a nightclub I'm leaning on organ all night, I'd say no way.  The VR09 could handle that, but based on what I've heard in these vids the CK could not.  So hopefully without impugning anyone's reputation I've described a player who the CK is not specifically aimed at.  

 

I would agree the availability of an excellent app like VB3 (or BX3, which in my experience is better sounding but less reliable) can change how we think about a keyboard like this.  If it's got 9 thingies that slide and transmit midi, then boom, it can be used to play great-sounding organ from your phone and you can think of the onboard organ as what you switch to if the app freezes up.  Combining Yamaha pianos with VB3 organ is always a winner in my book.

 

Thanks for the reasonable response.

 

Dudes in blues bands might not be the target audience, without using it as a midi controller, maybe (haven't heard all the organ sounds, maybe it's perfectly fine).

 

I think this could get real region specific real quick because around my area.. there's no such thing as a blues band. Blues isn't popular enough to be a viable genre for a band, if they want repeat gigs.

 

When I'm thinking of the types of audiences, really I'm thinking of the venues and the clientele they tend to attract, and also the timeslots the entertainment plays at those venues and how it impacts the vibe of the music being played.

 

For me, this means weekday dinnertime gigs - laid back, background music-ish until the last set when it may or may not get more upbeat/danceable and this is also solo acts only, no bands.

 

It also means Fri/Sat night gigs at various establishments, some similar to the above, some more rowdy and pub-like, Aussie pub-rock is huge, '80s stuff is big, lately there's been a shift towards lots of '00s music.. the CK can cover all of this in a band, no problem. As a solo act, obviously it works for piano/vocal gigs but it's also great that you can run backing tracks through it and have that all self-contained.

 

I won't ramble on about all of my use cases, but it appears to be great as a do-it-all keyboard that covers all the basics, trims the fat and basically allows the musician to get through any sort of gig without the need for extra gear or apps/VSTs/AUv3s.

 

Might not be the perfect tool for every situation and niche but it should be able to get the job done in a pinch and sound great doing it.

 

 

32 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

In general, I'd say someone who makes enough money from music to declare it on a tax return, but not enough for it to be someone's only/primary source of a livable income.

 

 

Live performing pros and probably even most semi-pros rehearse less than they gig. And again, depending on the music and the purpose of the rehearsal, one may not need the full rig you perform with. Heck, I've gone into rehearsal studios with no gear at all, and just played whatever happened to already be there. Even apart from that, I've rarely brought more than one board to a rehearsal, though I've rarely gigged with less than two boards.

 

By the look of it, considering the sonic territory the CK covers, the controls provided, the ease of finding sounds (and assembling combinations) on the fly, the light travel weight, and even the built-in speakers, I could see it being the board I'd take to a rehearsal. (Built-in speakers should be fine for the "unplugged" rehearsals I've had... e.g. no drummer, just the rest of us working out arrangements and vocals.) Now, whether someone would pay $1000 just for a rehearsal board is a different question, but if that becomes one more use you'd have for this board in addition to others, the sum total of all the ways you could use it could make it justifiable, even if possibly no one purpose does.

 

 

Completely agree with all of this.

[ElmerJFudd]

Perhaps we can assist my thought process on this. 

 

Pros/Cons of choosing CK61 over a controller keyboard like Keylab MkII or Nektar Panorama T6?

Pros

1. Onboard sounds when you don't have your laptop/tablet

2. Runs on Batteries

3. 5 Pin and USB MIDI

4. Faders/Drawbars are on the left side

5. Built in audio interface

6. Possibly better action (to be determined). 

7. We expect Yamaha build quality and Yamaha firmware/software 

 

Cons

1. $400 more expensive 

2. Less controllers

3. Keys are likely some % of a mm thinner than standard

4. Probably (at least at first) fewer preset mappings for popular VSTs - though I prefer to do it myself in Main Stage either way.

 

[pjd]

55 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Perhaps we can assist my thought process on this. 

 

Pros/Cons of choosing CK61 over a controller keyboard like Keylab MkII or Nektar Panorama T6?

Pros

1. Onboard sounds when you don't have your laptop/tablet

... 

 

Cons

1. $400 more expensive 

2. Less controllers

3. Keys are likely some % of a mm thinner than standard

4. Probably (at least at first) fewer preset mappings for popular VSTs - though I prefer to do it myself in Main Stage either way.

 

 

Before buying the CK as a controller, best check the slider/knob/button to CC mapping. (See the MIDI implementation part of the manual.)  It appears to be preset/fixed and a little bit baroque. Might not be an issue with MIDI learn in a VST, but YMMV.

 

-- pj

 

[Sam Mullins]

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

 

Cons

3. Keys are likely some % of a mm thinner than standard

 

 

The last Yamaha I owned (MOXF), it was 3/16" per octave...so a little over a half mm per white key.  Most people don't seem to mind.  I can't definitively say it caused me problems...but when I was playing on a more "standard" width keyboard with one hand and the other on the MOXF, I had this perception that things were a little off.  Could be just some form of psychosis on my part 

[ElmerJFudd]

5 minutes ago, Sam Mullins said:

The last Yamaha I owned (MOXF), it was 3/16" per octave.  Most people don't seem to mind.  I can't definitively say it caused me problems...but when I was playing on a more "standard" width keyboard with one hand and the other on the MOXF, I had this perception that things were a little off.  Could be just some form of psychosis on my part 

It's never bothered me when playing Yamaha synths over the years.  But I'm forever wondering why they do it. 

[pjd]

Rather than categorize musicians or break them down into market segments, it comes down to the personal needs and budget of each individual. Except for the few folks who have worked in musical instrument marketing or retail, we just down have objective statistics.

 

Need. Budget. And then there's "good enough."

 

As to budget, I can relate to the musician who needs to balance off eating, car payments, mortgage/rent, saving for kid's education/whatever,  and so forth. I could comfortably buy a YC, but I didn't and won't. I don't want to tie up that much money in gear and the "crap MODX organ" is good enough for our congregation. 🙂

 

Front panel gizmos and 88 GHS keybed aside, the CK is 100% recycled content. That's not a slag on the CK because the content is Yammie good. However, by deep diving MODX,  I can recreate nearly every CK sound using MODX -- and more. So, for me, there is no real need. Learn an instrument in depth and save money.

 

I'm a cheapster -- pj

 

P.S. The CK organ presets which I cannot recreate are the pipe organs. (!) Yammie recycled those from Genos and they're darned good.